Can Anyone Explain our Defense to Me?

[Smonroe]

We played so well against Seattle, SF, and Denver.  Tight man coverage.

 

Now we can hardly get off the field on 3rd down, no matter what the distance.  I'm seeing very little pressure on the QB and the short passes are killing us.  The Titans ran that rub/pick constantly.

 

Yes, yesterday Palmer was excellent in putting the ball in the right spot against some good DB play.  But it seems like we're playing soft a lot, almost like the old cover 2.

 

Personally, I'd rather play aggressive even if we get beat than see those long, time consuming drives where they're dinking down the field.

 

So, please, no DHB, McGlynn, Satele excuses here.  I want to talk about our D.

[Mameluc]

for whatever reason, we went downhill after Toler was injured.

 

And is not like Toler was lockdown, but i dont know the team hasnt responded

[Mameluc]

I think the issue is we dont have playmakers on any side of the ball...we deppend on a deep bomb to TY or Mathis getting a sack.

 

thats it. thats all we got.

 

Grigson needs to do something next year. lets see how far we can do it this year.

 

I also think they need to make a decition between davis and Toler. i like both but both are #2 and idont think we should go on that direction. but letting go of davis would mean wasted pick. Letting go of Toler admits a mistake.

[Imped]

I honestly have no idea. That side of the ball hasn't been decimated by injuries and they all look slow and soulless. They looked dominant against SF and Denver......

 

I just wish their was a reason for such a decline. 

[Mameluc]

Bethea has been lackluster also.

 

 

Im not a fan of manusky but i have seen plenty of press man and blitzes so i think its also talent

[Jason_]

I think Toler going out has had a trickle down affect on the entire defense.   And that's not to say that Toler is a world beater or the greatest player in the game.  It just seems the entire secondary has lost its confidence. 

[pgt_rob]

Yeah I don't know what kind of defense that was yesterday, whatever it was, was awful. Every 3rd down they had a receiver standing on the 1st down line to catch the ball without a colts player in sight. It was dang near every time too. Why can't we cover our man like the denver or seattle game? That is beyond me..

[Mameluc]

I think Toler going out has had a trickle down affect on the entire defense.   And that's not to say that Toler is a world beater or the greatest player in the game.  It just seems the entire secondary has lost its confidence. 

i agree

[SilentHill]

Teams are exploiting match ups. Like any WR on Bethea. or any football player on Vaughn.

 

I'm not sure why Butler isn't the 2nd starting CB, probably because Vaughn would be smoked worse in his role.

[Smonroe]

Yeah I don't know what kind of defense that was yesterday, whatever it was, was awful. Every 3rd down they had a receiver standing on the 1st down line to catch the ball without a colts player in sight. It was dang near every time too. Why can't we cover our man like the denver or seattle game? That is beyond me..

 

Even when the Cards went into conservative mode!  They'd run twice into the line to burn clock.  Then they'd convert on 3rd and long.

 

RJF had a couple good plays, but we had virtually no pressure on Palmer.  And even going back to the Titans game - we let Fitz hit those rubs throughout the first half like we never knew they were coming.

 

People complained about Walden, but at least he helped set that edge a lot better than we saw yesterday.

[IndyD4U]

I think it's evident how much we miss Toler and Bethea has been subpar all year

[pgt_rob]

Even when the Cards went into conservative mode!  They'd run twice into the line to burn clock.  Then they'd convert on 3rd and long.

 

RJF had a couple good plays, but we had virtually no pressure on Palmer.  And even going back to the Titans game - we let Fitz hit those rubs throughout the first half like we never knew they were coming.

 

People complained about Walden, but at least he helped set that edge a lot better than we saw yesterday.

 

Yeah, RJF had a great game. Everyone else, not so much. I'll be glad to have Walden back this weekend.

[#12]

Getting a lead on offense for once, putting pressure on the opposing offense wouldn't hurt.  As it stands, opposing offenses are in a 60 minute comfort zone.  That said, I'm sure we'll defer on Sunday, run Richardson into a brick wall 3-4 times and get down by two TDs early. 

[The Fish]

The secondary is getting picked on and it's creating situations where multiple LB's are playing coverage when they'd normally be attacking the run. Bethea's play is on the decline, Toler and Davis are a good tandem, but they're not on the field together during this downturn. With Davis getting hurt yesterday, this is going to continue. 

 

I will say that my gut feeling is that the D is more likely to get right before the playoffs than the Offense. 

[Imped]

Getting a lead on offense for once, putting pressure on the opposing offense wouldn't hurt.  As it stands, opposing offenses are in a 60 minute comfort zone.  That said, I'm sure we'll defer on Sunday, run Richardson into a brick wall 3-4 times and get down by two TDs early. 

It's an absolute certainty if they continue to stubbornly try the same things with the same people. Make no changes and the results won't differ. 

[unitaswestand]

We play a 3-4 defense with man coverage most of the time.  Man coverage is reliant on a pass rush to force the QB to throw the ball faster.   Also reliant on stopping the run.   We have almost no pass rush and can't stop the run.  So teams are just teeing off on the man coverage.  Our secondary is strong and build for run support but not so much speed.  So just getting burned too much.  Think of the Raven defense as a blueprint   They are always good against the run and had two good pass rushers which allowed their secondary to be elite.  But when they played the Colts with Manning, he would usually dice them because they couldn't get to him so therefore there was separation in pass coverage and he would exploit it.

 

I do think Manusky is a terrible defensive coordinator . He has been at every stop he's been on.  He was a second choice as DC.  He doesn't scheme very well.

[throwing BBZ]

Good defenses have a strong front seven against the run and get a good pass rush. THE END!

 

 

 In his 1st year in this D, playing with garbage, as a rotational Player, Jerry Hughes had numbers that were about 2/3 of an average Anthony Spencer (60-65 tackles - 6 sacks) season.

Hughes had 41-4

Freeney 12T & 5 Sacks for $14M. hahahahahaha! what a joke! Leaving no $$$ for O-Line. = Satele McGlynn & maybe a GOOD ILB.

 

Hughes is doing it again, he was better than Walden for 1/2 the $$$, and was largely ridiculed on his way out of town by fans who can`t understand FB for Dummies.   Ahhh! A good post loss vent. Go Colts!

 

These last 2 losses are what our roster was Last Year!!

Very disappointing, but we did whupp Peyton and that was AWESOME!!

[James Harden]

What we need is Laron Landry to become Bob Sanders and tackle the day lights out of people. He need to average 15 tackles a game, get interceptions and force fumbles. Start changing playcalling on defense and let him to try to disrupt the Oline. Let him roam around the defensive line like Troy Polamalu and hit the quarterback. We need to play like the Steelers defense back in the day. 

[#12]

When you've lost confidence, as this defense and team clearly have, sometimes you need help from the opposition to get out of it.  Here's to hoping Fitzpatrick donates a few and/or the Titans put a few on the turf Sunday. 

[Smonroe]

What we need is Laron Landry to become Bob Sanders and tackle the day lights out of people. He need to average 15 tackles a game, get interceptions and force fumbles. Start changing playcalling on defense and let him to try to disrupt the Oline. Let him roam around the defensive line like Troy Polamalu and hit the quarterback. We need to play like the Steelers defense back in the day. 

 

That Steeler D would have been penalized out of the league.  That's a problem for all teams - the guys are trying to be so careful how they hit someone that they're missing tackles.    WRs have little fear of going across the middle anymore.

 

I'm concerned that our D has regressed even from what we were at the end of last season.  If you recall, we gave up a lot of yards in some games, but in the last 4 games of the regular season the D gave up 1 TD per.

 

Who knows, maybe we can get back to that level of play.  Which isn't asking a whole lot.

[GoColts00]

It's an absolute certainty if they continue to stubbornly try the same things with the same people. Make no changes and the results won't differ. 

I agree. btw, isn't that the definition of Insanity!

[Carl Dzienkiewicz]

for whatever reason, we went downhill after Toler was injured.

 

And is not like Toler was lockdown, but i dont know the team hasnt responded

toler doesnt defend the run

[James Harden]

That Steeler D would have been penalized out of the league.  That's a problem for all teams - the guys are trying to be so careful how they hit someone that they're missing tackles.    WRs have little fear of going across the middle anymore.

 

I'm concerned that our D has regressed even from what we were at the end of last season.  If you recall, we gave up a lot of yards in some games, but in the last 4 games of the regular season the D gave up 1 TD per.

 

Who knows, maybe we can get back to that level of play.  Which isn't asking a whole lot.

I hate how the league now change the rule on how to tackle, Players are grown men not pee wee kids. Football is a sport of men. Most of us watch it for the bone chilling crush tackles. I hope the NFL doesn't become a flag football sport 

[coltsfan77]

I agree that the game is turning soft. These are grown men that know the risk of what they do. They choose to play the game. That is why they make the kind if money they do. Let these guys play! Dirty hits are one thing, but a football hit is another. Some of these rules are mind boggling and the refs have to make judgement calls on the fly, therefore determining the outcome of to many games. Just my two cents!

[Mameluc]

toler doesnt defend the run

we havent been beaten because of the run. we have been raped by constant big plays..but yea we have also sucked vs the run no other way to say it

[Coltswarriors]

It's unexplainable.

[Darryl C. Patrick]

People underestimate how much good defense is a mental thing. The players are good players, but a tentative, unsure mindset can make them look pretty incompetent. When the Colts took out the contenders, (49ers, Seahawks, Broncos) the players mentality was one of confidence. But, when things started going south, no coach stepped up to address the mental approach to the players properly. Pagano and the defensive coaching staff look clueless as to why seemingly dominant performers one week keep going downhill week after week. His inability to right the ship has the players confidence at a low level, since everyone knows they have to look for their leaders for direction. If the leaders have no direction to provide, the confidence level of the players goes down, leading to poor execution. I've lead men in combat situations in the Military and believe me....the mental aspects are the foundation of the answers to right the ship. And Pagano doesnt seem to have the knowledge of how to make that happen, unfortunately.  

[coltsfanatic24]

Reasons why the defense is struggling:

 

1. Bethea - He's blown so many coverages this year and missed so many tackles. He just doesn't have the speed anymore to cover or the range. At this point the coaches should consider starting Howell over him. Bethea has been by far the worst defender on the team and the biggest reason this defense is struggling.

 

2. Manusky- The defense is too Vanilla we rarely blitz mostly a 4 man rush and man coverage 90% of the game. He needs to switch it up and run some zone blitzes to throw off the offense because teams have seemed to figure out man coverage with crossing routes.

 

3. Angerer- Just isn't a good fit in this defense. He's too slow to cover anyone and isn't that good at taking on blockers in the run game.  Kavell Conner should start over him he's the better ILB. He's great at shedding blocks, he's faster, more athletic and can cover much better.

 

4. Toler- Not having Toler out there has really hurt the secondary. He's not the greatest CB but for this defense he's irreplaceable because of the depth behind him.  Based on how bad the defense has played since he was out you could make a case for him being the MVP for the defense. The team doesn't function without him.

 

5. Franklin- He's been on his back for most of the games this year. He's not creating double teams and just isn't getting any push at all. We traded up for Hughes it's time to start him and see what he can do.

 

6. Werner- I know he's a rookie but he was a first round pick and it's time for him to start playing like one. Mathis needs help he  can't do it all alone. Even if we have to switch to a 4-3 on 2nd and 3rd downs and put his hand on the ground we have to do it.

 

7. RJF- For all the money he's getting paid he has to play better. He suppose to be the anchor of the defense but he's been average at best. Need to see more pass rushing from him.

 

8. Pagano- As a defensive coordinator it has to be frustrating to him to see the defense play so bad. Instead of patting guys on the back even after a mistake, he needs to be more vocal and start getting into guys more when they mess up and on occasion bench them to set an example. He's been too soft as a head coach and it's rubbing off on the defense.

 

If we can get these things corrected we will have a much better defense.

[basketballsteve]

It's a sink or swim defense. Corners are almost always in press man so they have to win their battles AND they need a good pass rush to hold their coverage. The run game requires down linemen to occupy multiple blockers and be immovable, the OLB's need to set a hard edge on every run play and the 2 ILB's and safties need to be in their holes quickly and not miss tackles. In short it's a coordinated  defense that when everybody does their job can shut down an offense. Our old Tampa 2 was prdeicated on not giving up any chunks and relying on the fact that the offense would make mistakes before they could complete a 10 play 80 yard drive AND this defense is the opposite of that it's a "i  challenge you to beat me" defense.

[Imped]

Reasons why the defense is struggling:

 

 At this point the coaches should consider starting Howell over him.

 

He needs to switch it up and run some zone blitzes to throw off the offense because teams have seemed to figure out man coverage with crossing routes.

 

Kavell Conner should start over him he's the better ILB. He's great at shedding blocks, he's faster, more athletic and can cover much better.

 

All fantastic ideas and I don't think you'll see anyone disagreeing. Unfortunately, the coaching staff is stubborn beyond belief and have favorites. Not gonna happen. 

[Smonroe]

All fantastic ideas and I don't think you'll see anyone disagreeing. Unfortunately, the coaching staff is stubborn beyond belief and have favorites. Not gonna happen. 

 

I'm not sure I'd call it 'stubborn'.  I do think the coaches value experience over raw talent, which isn't a bad thing but there has to be a balance.  Like last year when they put Zibs back in as a starter in the playoff game after Lefeged played better than him.

 

I hope the GM has learned from the last regime and doesn't spend a lot of money signing guys that are mediocre players.  Bathea was a great S in his prime but he's obviously on the downside.  Except for Vontea, I wouldn't give much more than vet min to any of them (Mathis is locked up for a few years).

 

Coltsfanatic24 - you did a good job in explaining why you think we're struggling.  Hard to argue with those points.

[Bluefire4]

It seems like we're seconds late with are pass rush. Right when they get there the ball is thrown and our coverage isn't good enough to hold up.

[SilentHill]

How about how teams consistently beat us with slants and crossing routes?

 

Will the defensive play calling ever adjust? It's been like 5 weeks now (Ever since the SD game)

[dudeski]

here are some problems

 

1)  angerer is slow and horrible.  can't shed a block.  this guy should not be starting

 

2)  bethea is done.  he takes horrible angles and is too slow to be effective

 

3)  nobody can set the edge

 

4)  landry makes no plays at all.  or hasn't in some time

 

5)  redding is old and is less and less effective

[antipatriot]

They are hampered by a pathetic attempt to pretend we are a running team which allows us to get down by ridiculous scores because the offense cant put points on the board. 

[dudeski]

Good defenses have a strong front seven against the run and get a good pass rush. THE END!

 

 

 In his 1st year in this D, playing with garbage, as a rotational Player, Jerry Hughes had numbers that were about 2/3 of an average Anthony Spencer (60-65 tackles - 6 sacks) season.

Hughes had 41-4

Freeney 12T & 5 Sacks for $14M. hahahahahaha! what a joke! Leaving no $$$ for O-Line. = Satele McGlynn & maybe a GOOD ILB.

 

Hughes is doing it again, he was better than Walden for 1/2 the $$$, and was largely ridiculed on his way out of town by fans who can`t understand FB for Dummies.   Ahhh! A good post loss vent. Go Colts!

 

These last 2 losses are what our roster was Last Year!!

Very disappointing, but we did whupp Peyton and that was AWESOME!!

hughes was horrible vs the run. 

 

couldnt set the edge to save his life

[ColtsBlueFL]

I agree that the game is turning soft. These are grown men that know the risk of what they do. They choose to play the game. That is why they make the kind if money they do. Let these guys play! Dirty hits are one thing, but a football hit is another. Some of these rules are mind boggling and the refs have to make judgement calls on the fly, therefore determining the outcome of to many games. Just my two cents!

 

Blame all of the litigation.  The league is in full CYA mode to stave off future lawsuits.