Losing ALLEN is BAD but............

[Michael Lebron]

I would hate to lose him for the season but.....

 

1. I think it would pretty much guarantee Griff not only makes the team but plays a significant role. If Griff gets a lot of time in the first 4 games, Brazil will become solely a special teams player. Griff will not give up his spot.

 

2. I think we will run more 3 receiver sets than planned, which means more TY...... By the way there is no stopping this guy.

 

3. Fleener goes nuts not splitting catches with Allen..... Justice will play himself into trade bait for Grigson next year. The guy has good hands and speed.

 

 

[cjwhiskers]

Or we run as many two TE sets as planned with JC stepping up to the best of his abilities. I'm sure we will be fine if hes out for any significant amount of time. I was looking forward to seeing them develop into one of the best TE duos in the nfl though. 

[Smonroe]

Understand what you're saying, but I don't quite agree.

Losing Allen does nothing for Griff. Brazil is a down the field speed guy, Griff is a slot type. Griff won't do much after the catch, he's not even a Wes Welker. He's the guy you can count on to get open for a first down, not stretch the field. We need another X, DHB is arguably our only one right now.

Fleener will get more catches with Allen on the field.

Justice has speed? Not sure about that.

My opinion...

[PrincetonTiger]

If Allen is lost for a significant period of time it helps Dom Jones make the team not Griff.

[Michael Lebron]

I understand Griff plays a different position, but teams play their best players and playmakers. Allen is a playmaker, the other tight ends have not shown that they are. The coaches feel confident that Griff can make plays. With that being the case, you utilize the formations and sets that allow you to make plays.

[Michael Lebron]

Obviously another tight end will make the squad if he is lost, but again you want playmakers on the field not bodies. We will run more multiple receiver sets to get our playmakers on the field.

[corgi]

Can we actually wait until we lose Allen before we come up with "we are going to be okay because" scenarios?

[ruksak]

Can we actually wait until we lose Allen before we come up with "we are going to be okay because" scenarios?

*applause.........it's not time to sound the panic horn. 

[open window]

Can we actually wait until we lose Allen before we come up with "we are going to be okay because" scenarios?

Agreed

[Jay Kirk]

Obviously another tight end will make the squad if he is lost, but again you want playmakers on the field not bodies. We will run more multiple receiver sets to get our playmakers on the field.

Lol you obviously havnt seen what Peps offense is about,not saying there wont be multiple receiver sets,but he loves the 2 tight end set.You don't play smashmouth football running a bunch of 3 to 4 wide receiver sets. :hmm:

[Michael Lebron]

Very familiar with Pep as well as what has been going on at training camp being that I have attended 5 days or so. I have seen multiple tight end sets but a lot of three and four wide sets as well.

[In Luck We Trust]

I would hate to lose him for the season but.....

 

1. I think it would pretty much guarantee Griff not only makes the team but plays a significant role. If Griff gets a lot of time in the first 4 games, Brazil will become solely a special teams player. Griff will not give up his spot.

 

2. I think we will run more 3 receiver sets than planned, which means more TY...... By the way there is no stopping this guy.

 

3. Fleener goes nuts not splitting catches with Allen..... Justice will play himself into trade bait for Grigson next year. The guy has good hands and speed.

you make it sound like as if Whalen will not be on the team anyway. he has been doing a lot better then most of the WR's at camp this year and was making a statement to be on the roster last year before he got hurt. and it also helps that the coaches like him not to mention that he is use to the offensive play book being that he was at stanford also. so baring an injury to his self, i believe he is already making the team. especially with Brazill being suspended and the knee sprain to DHB. 

 

 

the offense is more a two TE set then anything and the only time you will prob see a lot of three WR set's is in 2nd, or 3rd and long situations.

 

and to trade away a TE who could also be a very good TE just because you have two good TE's already is crazy. not unless you plan on drafting another TE you feel will be just as good if not better. because anything can happen as you posted and we could lose either Fleener or Allan for the season (knock on wood). plus keeping him would give luck an extra option in goal line situations when defenses will be thinking Allan or Fleener will be getting the ball or one of the backs. 

[Jay Kirk]

you make it sound like as if Whalen will not be on the team anyway. he has been doing a lot better then most of the WR's at camp this year and was making a statement to be on the roster last year before he got hurt. and it also helps that the coaches like him not to mention that he is use to the offensive play book being that he was at stanford also. so baring an injury to his self, i believe he is already making the team. especially with Brazill being suspended and the knee sprain to DHB. 

Theres no doubt about that statement

[Franklin County]

I would hate to lose him for the season but.....

.

 

3.  Justice will play himself into trade bait for Grigson next year. The guy has good hands and speed.

If JC turns it a great TE, why would we trade him? Quality depth is needed at every position, so that if someone goes down, we have quality players to fill in.

[Jay Kirk]

Not to mention I for one don't think JCs going anywhere lol.How do you play your way in to trade bait ?

[Archer]

I hope Allen will be back soon, but I was becoming cautiously optimistic about Cunningham before all this happened.  Wouldn't mind seeing Mr. Irrelevant make himself relevant...

[Smonroe]

I hope Allen will be back soon, but I was becoming cautiously optimistic about Cunningham before all this happened.  Wouldn't mind seeing Mr. Irrelevant make himself relevant...

 

He's probably a lock to make the team, and actually see some playing time.  Not too sure about last years Mr. I.  I'm not sure there's a need to carry a third QB.  

 

Michael makes a good point, you want to get all your playmakers on the field if possible.  Of course, you want to give your QB time to hit those guys too, which may mean more FB plays if Allen misses time.

 

In short, I think the player to benefit the most from Allen's absence is going to be Havili.

[coltsfanatic24]

Even before the injury i had Fleener making the probowl and he was gonna see majority of the reps when we went 3 WR 1TE sets. You never want to see a player like Allen injured because he's an important part of our team but having Wayne,DHB,TY, and Fleener on the field together makes us one of the fastest and most explosive offenses in the league. Cunningham could have a great impact as far as blocking and he has good hands but he doesn't have Allen's athleticism so i doubt will see a lot of 2TE sets. Will most likely be in 3WR sets and when we go 4WR Whalen will be in the slot.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

I would hate to lose him for the season but.....

 

1. I think it would pretty much guarantee Griff not only makes the team but plays a significant role. If Griff gets a lot of time in the first 4 games, Brazil will become solely a special teams player. Griff will not give up his spot.

 

2. I think we will run more 3 receiver sets than planned, which means more TY...... By the way there is no stopping this guy.

 

3. Fleener goes nuts not splitting catches with Allen..... Justice will play himself into trade bait for Grigson next year. The guy has good hands and speed.

This just in...Andrew Luck now taking reps at TE.

[Jay Kirk]

This just in...Andrew Luck now taking reps at TE.

[dgambill]

Nothing good comes from losing Allen. Allen is by far our best TE on the team and we only get worse with him off the field. It may benefit someone else on the team but it in no way makes us a stronger team.

[Dark Superman]

Losing Allen would be a HUGE blow.

Besides Andrew I believe Allen has th ability to be a complete player.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Nothing good comes from losing Allen. Allen is by far our best TE on the team and we only get worse with him off the field. It may benefit someone else on the team but it in no way makes us a stronger team.

Agreed. I still believe Allen was the biggest steal in the 2012 Draft (sans Russell Wilson).  Should have been a 1st round pick...Just more proof that GM's put way too much emphasis on combine numbers and not enough on doing legitimate scouting.  That's why Gringson won me over really quickly, he doesn't buy hype or discount players because of what outside sources are saying.

[Stephen]

What if we decide to keep two full backs.

[GoColts8818]

The Colts aren't just going to scrap part of their offense if they lose Allen.  They will looking to the next tightend which will probably be Cunningham at this point and say step up and if he can't they will find someone else.  I am sure we might see a little more of three wide receivers and fullback formations but we will still use the two tightend set even if Allen is out for an extended period of time. 

[Malakai432]

*applause.........it's not time to sound the panic horn.

Dude the zombie apocalypse has started......

[Smonroe]

The Colts aren't just going to scrap part of their offense if they lose Allen.  They will looking to the next tightend which will probably be Cunningham at this point and say step up and if he can't they will find someone else.  I am sure we might see a little more of three wide receivers and fullback formations but we will still use the two tightend set even if Allen is out for an extended period of time.

Unfortunately, we won't find another TE that can do the same things as Allen, which does mean a change to the game plan. That's what the OP was pointing out.

Stephen had an interesting point, if Allen is out for a time why not carry two FBs? Obviously they need to be able to catch as well as they block.

[SteelCityColt]

Unfortunately, we won't find another TE that can do the same things as Allen, which does mean a change to the game plan. That's what the OP was pointing out.

Stephen had an interesting point, if Allen is out for a time why not carry two FBs? Obviously they need to be able to catch as well as they block.

It's a shame Dan Moore inured himself too.

[Smonroe]

It's a shame Dan Moore inured himself too.

Yes. Reports were that he looked very good in camp until then. Shoulder injuries and FBs go hand in hand.

[GoColts8818]

Unfortunately, we won't find another TE that can do the same things as Allen, which does mean a change to the game plan. That's what the OP was pointing out.

Stephen had an interesting point, if Allen is out for a time why not carry two FBs? Obviously they need to be able to catch as well as they block.

I don't think we are going to find another tightend who can be the exact same as Allen.  It will still be the next man up though.  That's how life goes in the NFL.  With that said, while we might run a little more three wide and a little more full back sets we are still going to run a lot of two tightend sets even if Allen is out.  Pep's offense is built on that, they aren't just going to chuck that out the window because Allen is hurt. 

[open window]

Losing Allen would be more annoying than

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

I don't think we are going to find another tightend who can be the exact same as Allen.  It will still be the next man up though.  That's how life goes in the NFL.  With that said, while we might run a little more three wide and a little more full back sets we are still going to run a lot of two tightend sets even if Allen is out.  Pep's offense is built on that, they aren't just going to chuck that out the window because Allen is hurt. 

If Allen misses time, I think we could do well with Cunningham and Dominque Jones filling the void.  The talent drop-off from Allen would be significant but if we have no more injuries to our skill position players (knock on wood), there's no reason to panic.

[bayone]

I would hate to lose him for the season but.....

 

1. I think it would pretty much guarantee Griff not only makes the team but plays a significant role. If Griff gets a lot of time in the first 4 games, Brazil will become solely a special teams player. Griff will not give up his spot.

 

2. I think we will run more 3 receiver sets than planned, which means more TY...... By the way there is no stopping this guy.

 

3. Fleener goes nuts not splitting catches with Allen..... Justice will play himself into trade bait for Grigson next year. The guy has good hands and speed.

 

I think Dwayne is a stud and a real asset foir this team both in Catching and blocking

[GoColts8818]

If Allen misses time, I think we could do well with Cunningham and Dominque Jones filling the void.  The talent drop-off from Allen would be significant but if we have no more injuries to our skill position players (knock on wood), there's no reason to panic.

Oh I am not prancing but we do have an injury with Bradshaw and while not injured you have to factor in that Brazil will be gone the first four games of the year.  The Colts skill position is a little miss leading and a little shallow at the moment. 

 

I do agree the talent drop-off if Allen is down for a long period of time, heck even if it's a short period of time the talent drop off will still be big, that's why injuries stink.  With that said teams don't overhaul their offense because a guy goes down unless it's someone like Peyton Manning who runs the offense.  They will tweak it some but they are still going to look at the guys behind Allen and go here is your chance to prove you belong in the NFL.  There is going to be a level of expecting them to step up.  With that said do I think they are going to be as good as Allen?  No way. 

[dgambill]

Agreed. I still believe Allen was the biggest steal in the 2012 Draft (sans Russell Wilson).  Should have been a 1st round pick...Just more proof that GM's put way too much emphasis on combine numbers and not enough on doing legitimate scouting.  That's why Gringson won me over really quickly, he doesn't buy hype or discount players because of what outside sources are saying.

I believe it was because TE was not as big a priority on most team's board as ours. Teams with young qbs value TEs highly and more complete teams or teams decimated at that position. Really more teams still look to spread you out and throw as opposed to having more two TE sets. While Allen I think was a steal at the top of the third...Fleener was a reach at the top of the second. However, its impossible to know how the draft would have worked it's way out if we passed on Fleener and if we would have been able to get Allen so they did what they had too. Just IMO Allen is a more complete TE and should have came off the board first. So far Grigson looks to be pretty good but the sample size is much too small to tell. A QB like Luck falling in your lap can make up for a whole lot of difficiencies. I will say I outside of Fleener I have loved his drafts A LOT. Allen was awesome! I loved moving up for TY. I loved getting Ballard...I loved stashing Chapman. I thought Werner was the right pick. I liked what we did in the middle rounds this year too...adding some young depth to the lines. His other acquisitions I'm not exactly sold on. Davis was a good trade. I liked DHB and Bradshaw as affordable chess pieces that will bring some veteren playmaking ability....Cherilus, RJF, and Thomas don't give me goosebumps and I'm not sold on Toler, Waldon, and Landry. Got a lot of big ifs for me. I know everyone LOVES Landry but I don't...I don't trust his body and I don't trust his headhunting. What I've seen from most guys is coming off knee injuries is that they tend to have a lot of calf and hamstring problems....and I just don't know if I think Toler will hold up in the secondary for that money. Don't get me wrong....I hope I'm wrong...but I will watch those guys closely this year hoping to see what he sees in them.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

I believe it was because TE was not as big a priority on most team's board as ours. Teams with young qbs value TEs highly and more complete teams or teams decimated at that position. Really more teams still look to spread you out and throw as opposed to having more two TE sets. While Allen I think was a steal at the top of the third...Fleener was a reach at the top of the second. However, its impossible to know how the draft would have worked it's way out if we passed on Fleener and if we would have been able to get Allen so they did what they had too. Just IMO Allen is a more complete TE and should have came off the board first. So far Grigson looks to be pretty good but the sample size is much too small to tell. A QB like Luck falling in your lap can make up for a whole lot of difficiencies. I will say I outside of Fleener I have loved his drafts A LOT. Allen was awesome! I loved moving up for TY. I loved getting Ballard...I loved stashing Chapman. I thought Werner was the right pick. I liked what we did in the middle rounds this year too...adding some young depth to the lines. His other acquisitions I'm not exactly sold on. Davis was a good trade. I liked DHB and Bradshaw as affordable chess pieces that will bring some veteren playmaking ability....Cherilus, RJF, and Thomas don't give me goosebumps and I'm not sold on Toler, Waldon, and Landry. Got a lot of big ifs for me. I know everyone LOVES Landry but I don't...I don't trust his body and I don't trust his headhunting. What I've seen from most guys is coming off knee injuries is that they tend to have a lot of calf and hamstring problems....and I just don't know if I think Toler will hold up in the secondary for that money. Don't get me wrong....I hope I'm wrong...but I will watch those guys closely this year hoping to see what he sees in them.

I don't think anyone would have drafted Fleener over Allen, including Grigson, if we didn't draft Luck.  The Stanford connection raised Fleener's value dramatically.  I'm with you Allen is the better talent, but I'm done slamming the table at these Fleener detractors...he's going to be very good.  As far as the  free agents, I think one thing Grigson set out to do was to change the mindset of what the colts defense was.  I'm holding judgment on individual players until I see them at full game speed.  But Toler is the one guy I'm excited about.  I'm getting a good feeling that he's the real deal.

[Smonroe]

I don't think anyone would have drafted Fleener over Allen, including Grigson, if we didn't draft Luck.  The Stanford connection raised Fleener's value dramatically.  I'm with you Allen is the better talent, but I'm done slamming the table at these Fleener detractors...he's going to be very good.  As far as the  free agents, I think one thing Grigson set out to do was to change the mindset of what the colts defense was.  I'm holding judgment on individual players until I see them at full game speed.  But Toler is the one guy I'm excited about.  I'm getting a good feeling that he's the real deal.

 

Fleener was the #1 TE on everyone's draft board.  Everyone would have drafted him over Allen.  Obviously, no one thought Allen was even a 2nd round pick.

 

Allen's 40 time at the combine killed him.  Then he didn't run the 40 at his pro day, which is why he dropped even further.  We can all be thankful for that decision!

[bayone]

Fleener was the #1 TE on everyone's draft board.  Everyone would have drafted him over Allen.  Obviously, no one thought Allen was even a 2nd round pick.

 

Allen's 40 time at the combine killed him.  Then he didn't run the 40 at his pro day, which is why he dropped even further.  We can all be thankful for that decision!

 

absolutely

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Fleener was the #1 TE on everyone's draft board.  Everyone would have drafted him over Allen.  Obviously, no one thought Allen was even a 2nd round pick.

 

Allen's 40 time at the combine killed him.  Then he didn't run the 40 at his pro day, which is why he dropped even further.  We can all be thankful for that decision!

That was exactly my point. GM's who draft based on the combine tend to miss the playoffs on a regular basis.

[dgambill]

I don't think anyone would have drafted Fleener over Allen, including Grigson, if we didn't draft Luck.  The Stanford connection raised Fleener's value dramatically.  I'm with you Allen is the better talent, but I'm done slamming the table at these Fleener detractors...he's going to be very good.  As far as the  free agents, I think one thing Grigson set out to do was to change the mindset of what the colts defense was.  I'm holding judgment on individual players until I see them at full game speed.  But Toler is the one guy I'm excited about.  I'm getting a good feeling that he's the real deal.

I hope so too!  I don't think Fleener was #1 on everyone's board...I do think he was a late second rounder....he wasn't even the best TE on his team imo but I agree we valued him because of his time with Luck.