Griff Whalen Progressing

[Smonroe]

I don't think Whalen will make the team were really deep at the WR position. Wayne,DHB,T.Y,Brazil are locks and i think the last spot will go to Kelley. His size and athleticism and being able to play on the outside in case of Wayne injury is something will need.

That would be a shocker. Kelly really hasn't done much in at any level. Being tall doesn't mean much if you don't have the talent. We already have a receiver as tall as him anyway in Fleener.

You can never tell, the Colts obviously see something in him. But I'd say PS is the best he can hope for. I think the Brazil, Whalen and Palmer will battle for the last two spots.

[Gavin]

I'm not sure about QB/WR duos in the NFL, and how they compare in the Pros, but there is something that I don't think has ever happened before that happened in the draft last year.  The Rams drafted the two starting WR from WV...Tavon Austin and Stedman Bailey...It will be interesting to see how that comes to fruition..

 

I like Whalen, I just don't think he has the speed or ability to break away from man coverage, as has previously been mentioned. But, we can look at Luck /Fleener down the road as possibly a QB/Receiver duo that excelled in college together that could very well excel in the Pros...

I dont think he does consistently either but Wes Welker is similar in size and he does fine...Of course that was under Brady as QB and now Manning

[coltsfanatic24]

That would be a shocker. Kelly really hasn't done much in at any level. Being tall doesn't mean much if you don't have the talent. We already have a receiver as tall as him anyway in Fleener.

You can never tell, the Colts obviously see something in him. But I'd say PS is the best he can hope for. I think the Brazil, Whalen and Palmer will battle for the last two spots.

Fleener is a TE he'll be used mostly in the middle through the seams. Most of our WR's are small slot Wr's and Wayne will be playing more this year in the slot. We all saw what Luck can do with a big WR i.e AJ Green in the probowl. Now Kelley is no Green but he has great size and speed and just a bigger target for Luck to throw to. The Saints have Colston and Graham there's no limit of how many tall WR's you can have on the field. I think if Wayne or DHB gets injured for a few games, Kelley could step right in and have a great year.

[schwamm]

I'm not sure about QB/WR duos in the NFL, and how they compare in the Pros, but there is something that I don't think has ever happened before that happened in the draft last year. The Rams drafted the two starting WR from WV...Tavon Austin and Stedman Bailey...It will be interesting to see how that comes to fruition..

I like Whalen, I just don't think he has the speed or ability to break away from man coverage, as has previously been mentioned. But, we can look at Luck /Fleener down the road as possibly a QB/Receiver duo that excelled in college together that could very well excel in the Pros...

So... will they excel because they played together at Stanford, or would they have excelled together even if they hadn't been college teammates?

[MacDee1975]

Could see Whalen become the new #1 in a few years. Well new starter along with maybe DHB/Hilton depending on how DHB's next season goes.

 

Perhaps.

 

But much more likely is that Whalen will be out of the NFL within 3 years.

[Smonroe]

Fleener is a TE he'll be used mostly in the middle through the seams. Most of our WR's are small slot Wr's and Wayne will be playing more this year in the slot. We all saw what Luck can do with a big WR i.e AJ Green in the probowl. Now Kelley is no Green but he has great size and speed and just a bigger target for Luck to throw to. The Saints have Colston and Graham there's no limit of how many tall WR's you can have on the field. I think if Wayne or DHB gets injured for a few games, Kelley could step right in and have a great year.

I'd agree if there was any evidence that Kelly could be that guy. Don't forget DHB for the tall WR. Fleener also will be a great red zone target this year.

[T Y Goodbye]

So... will they excel because they played together at Stanford, or would they have excelled together even if they hadn't been college teammates?

They may or may not excel in the NFL..only time will tell..however, familiarity can aid quite substantially in progressing towards a goal. I would probably be more likely to achieve a championship more quickly, with those I have been playing with as a team for years, as opposed to a new collection of players. It takes time to develop cohesiveness..look at the year Peyton didn't practice in preseason..it took him over half a year to get his timing back with his teammates...Luck basically has not had a big break with Fleener, save for a few games when Fleener was out..I'm not saying this is a guarantee of success, but if Fleener and Luck together have an outstanding year, some of it could, and should be attributed to their familiarity with one another...Trust is also a key issue...Are you more comfortable with someone you played with for years, roomed with, spent countless hours together both on and off the field, or would you be comfortable with someone just brought in?...It takes time to develop chemistry...The Heat brought in Bosh and Lebron, and didn't win it the first year..it took time to develop...If there is a curve with players, then Luck and Fleener should be ahead of the curve.....Like I said, whether or not it happens, only time will tell..

[Gavin]

Outside of Kelleys size he doesn't bring anything else to the table, He is a slower Kris Adams

[schwamm]

They may or may not excel in the NFL..only time will tell..however, familiarity can aid quite substantially in progressing towards a goal. I would probably be more likely to achieve a championship more quickly, with those I have been playing with as a team for years, as opposed to a new collection of players. It takes time to develop cohesiveness..look at the year Peyton didn't practice in preseason..it took him over half a year to get his timing back with his teammates...Luck basically has not had a big break with Fleener, save for a few games when Fleener was out..I'm not saying this is a guarantee of success, but if Fleener and Luck together have an outstanding year, some of it could, and should be attributed to their familiarity with one another...Trust is also a key issue...Are you more comfortable with someone you played with for years, roomed with, spent countless hours together both on and off the field, or would you be comfortable with someone just brought in?...It takes time to develop chemistry...The Heat brought in Bosh and Lebron, and didn't win it the first year..it took time to develop...If there is a curve with players, then Luck and Fleener should be ahead of the curve.....Like I said, whether or not it happens, only time will tell..

Who knows which of us is right. I'd suggest, though, that Luck now has more chemistry with Wayne, Hilton and Allen than with Whalen or Fleener. And I think that chemistry offers more value going forward.

Perhaps Pep and his new playbook swings things back in the favor of the Cardinal boys, but I'm doubting that relationship will add the value you describe. I think Fleener will have a far more solid year, but I don't attribute it to his past as much as getting more comfortable with the speed of the NFL, and less afraid of getting hit.

[Smonroe]

Who knows which of us is right. I'd suggest, though, that Luck now has more chemistry with Wayne, Hilton and Allen than with Whalen or Fleener. And I think that chemistry offers more value going forward.

Perhaps Pep and his new playbook swings things back in the favor of the Cardinal boys, but I'm doubting that relationship will add the value you describe. I think Fleener will have a far more solid year, but I don't attribute it to his past as much as getting more comfortable with the speed of the NFL, and less afraid of getting hit.

 

Agree.  The NFL is a game of finding the mismatch and exploiting it.  Fleener can provide a mismatch if he's used right.  And Pep probably knows how to use him pretty well.  So, yes, it doesn't really matter that Luck and Fleener played together in the past.  Except that they seem to be pretty good friends, and that always helps.

 

I like Whalen in the little time I saw him play, but I don't know if he's going to be Welker, Giguere, or somewhere in between.  I do know that whoever wins that 5th WR spot better be a very good STs player.

[Iron Colt]

More NaPalm

less Whalen

[jamesie jr]

Perhaps.

 

But much more likely is that Whalen will be out of the NFL within 3 years.

True but it's always good to hope though.

[braveheartcolt]

More NaPalm

less Whalen

Yep. Griff should go to Miami. Whalen Dolphins are a good match....

[Gavin]

Some people like watching there wr's run backwards I guess......Ill take the guy that can get open underneath for positive yards

[Deathiltis]

If Griff Whalen is starting or the #1 receiver for the Colts in a couple years than we would have one if the worst receiving corps in the league and the front office would be underachieving. Not that I don't like Griff, he just isn't #1 material, never will be. His ceiling at best is probably a solid 3rd receiver.

[T Y Goodbye]

Who knows which of us is right. I'd suggest, though, that Luck now has more chemistry with Wayne, Hilton and Allen than with Whalen or Fleener. And I think that chemistry offers more value going forward.

Perhaps Pep and his new playbook swings things back in the favor of the Cardinal boys, but I'm doubting that relationship will add the value you describe. I think Fleener will have a far more solid year, but I don't attribute it to his past as much as getting more comfortable with the speed of the NFL, and less afraid of getting hit.

I agree with the assessment in bold. I mentioned in another thread that Fleener looked to me like he was playing scared. I don't think Whalen will make the team, though I like his type of player..Hard nosed..good hands, not afraid to cross the middle..He's just too slow for man coverage, imo.I'm really not an advocate of Fleener, though he has shown some promise so far this year in the OTA's..My point was only this...if you have someone you played with for years, know each other like a book, no matter what you should be more comfortable with them in the beginning than anyone else. Now, as time goes on of course Luck will be more familiar with all the other receivers as well, and they are probably at the point now where the debate is moot...When Peyton was here..look how long it took him to trust other receivers besides Harrison, Wayne and Clark. It takes time to develop a rapport with the passing game, between QB and receiver..That was my only point with Fleener...

 

And to be honest, I do expect some improvement with Fleener this year, however, I much prefer having Allen at TE most of the time in single TE sets.

 

And I am curious to see what the Rams do with 2 starting WR's from WV, drafted in the 1st and 3rd rounds..

[SteelCityColt]

As much I'd love Whalen to make the team, and I do think he has some talent, I just can't see him being a a long term answer in the receiving core. Reminds me of a poor man's Austin Collie from the limited playing time I saw least preseason. 

[crazycolt1]

This is a pet peeve of mine also. I get ill every time I hear the " Fleener was drafted because he played with Luck" crapola". As though they would draft an inferior player that due to supposed chemistry they had in college.

In fact Brian Broadus, a former cowboy scout, said he has never heard that kind of talk among scouts....ever. It's just fan nonsense.

I agree. Fleener was rated as the #1 TE on a few teams big board while Allen was a #1 on some others. I think the Colts were shocked when Allen fell to the 3rd round. Maybe Fleener being Luck's main TE at Stanford played a small part in the draft but I don't think it was as cut and dried as that. If that was the case I think we would have seen Luck trying to force feed him like he did Wayne. There were quite a few game where Wayne dominated. 

[SteelCityColt]

I agree. Fleener was rated as the #1 TE on a few teams big board while Allen was a #1 on some others. I think the Colts were shocked when Allen fell to the 3rd round. Maybe Fleener being Luck's main TE at Stanford played a small part in the draft but I don't think it was as cut and dried as that. If that was the case I think we would have seen Luck trying to force feed him like he did Wayne. There were quite a few game where Wayne dominated. 

 

I'm fairly sure I can remember a few mocks having Fleener to the Giants at the end of the first, and he was projected as a late 1st/early 2nd. 

[Smonroe]

Yep. Griff should go to Miami. Whalen Dolphins are a good match....

Ouch...

[crazycolt1]

I'm fairly sure I can remember a few mocks having Fleener to the Giants at the end of the first, and he was projected as a late 1st/early 2nd. 

I can't remember much about where the college players were projected because I don't follow college ball that close. Plus I think the mock drafts are just something to keep the fans interested and debating in the off season. Most of the time after the 1st two picks the mock drafts go totally different as anticipated. I feel sorry for the dudes who get invited to the 1st round green room and then not be picked. It has to be a bummer to the player and their families. I guess there is no other way to handle the draft because the NFL and the commish wants all the publicity they can get. 

[SteelCityColt]

I can't remember much about where the college players were projected because I don't follow college ball that close. Plus I think the mock drafts are just something to keep the fans interested and debating in the off season. Most of the time after the 1st two picks the mock drafts go totally different as anticipated. I feel sorry for the dudes who get invited to the 1st round green room and then not be picked. It has to be a bummer to the player and their families. I guess there is no other way to handle the draft because the NFL and the commish wants all the publicity they can get.

Oh certainly mocks are nothing more than a group of opinions but you can build up an idea as to roughly what the perceived player value is. In short Fleener was rated without his college relationship to Luck.

[Iron Colt]

Dwight Clark or Golden Richards could be Whalens future ;)

[Jay Kirk]

Some in here think Brazil will struggle to make this team.Lol I just don't see it that way,# 1 was very good on special teams punt coverage and kickoff coverage.Think this offense will suit him as well,plus don't think hes gonna be jammed at the line,pretty strong as well as fast,reminds me a lot of Garcon.Just hope he developes better.IMO the potential is there . 

[Dark Superman]

Brazil will surely make the team.