Would the Jags be open to trading Blackmon considering his off the field troubles?

[crazycolt1]

.

By that logic 85% of college kids have drinking problems.

I don't think alcohol being a drug needs to be clarified.

There is where you are 100% correct. 85% of college kids do have a drinking problem. Alcohol poisoning does kill a few college students every year. DUIs, public intoxication and drunk and disorderly conduct are very common in the college crowd. 

[BOTT]

There is where you are 100% correct. 85% of college kids do have a drinking problem. Alcohol poisoning does kill a few college students every year. DUIs, public intoxication and drunk and disorderly conduct are very common in the college crowd.

Ah, the best time of my life

[TKnight24]

Drinking is very bad people, don't do it

This message has been brought to you by your friendly forum member TKnight85 & is paid for by the TKnight loves apple juice foundation

[AntonMcG]

I am sorry but if 2 DUIs at his age is not a sign of a drinking problem then what is? Anyone that drinks and then don't have the sense not to drive does have a drinking problem no matter what your opinion is. There is no excuses. 

 

 

 

While you are entitled to your opinion the facts speak for themselves. Being young has zero to do with not being able to control ones drinking. Anyone who drinks knows exactly what it takes to get drunk. If you go over that limit then you have a problem. He may very well get control over the problem but let him do it on someone else time and money, not the Colts. That's is just my opinion.

 

Hmmm... thanks Professor.

 

Looks like I have a drinking problem, better check myself in.

[UKColt13]

We don't need a receiver NOW. But if we don't re-sign DHB at the end of the season, then we will have to address the position in FA or preferably either of the first 2 rounds of the draft.

I want Sammy Watkins form Clemson, or Marquise Lee from USC.

[Kyle]

Hilton had the same yardage with less receptions. He had a better average of yards per catch and yards after catch. How is the receptions advantage pro Blackmon?

its not that confusing...im using the stats u posted...

 

Blackmon receptions: 64

Hilton receptions: 50

 

the more receptions the better...  this is not even an argument.  

[Mouthfire]

its not that confusing...im using the stats u posted...

Blackmon receptions: 64

Hilton receptions: 50

the more receptions the better... this is not even an argument.

Umm, no. In an exaggerated example, if you had two 1000 yard receivers, one who required 100 receptions to do it, versus someone who required 1000 receptions to do it, you better believe I'm picking the guy with less receptions.

[CjMcGirt23]

its not that confusing...im using the stats u posted...

 

Blackmon receptions: 64

Hilton receptions: 50

 

the more receptions the better...  this is not even an argument.  

 

 

Umm, no. In an exaggerated example, if you had two 1000 yard receivers, one who required 100 receptions to do it, versus someone who required 1000 receptions to do it, you better believe I'm picking the guy with less receptions.

Exactly, we are building an explosive offense and in any good offense your going to have multiple targets. You need players who make the most out of each reception and clearly that was T.Y. Hilton who only needed 50 receptions to rack up the same amount of yardage as Blackmon did with 64. This isn't even an argument, your right, Blackmon needed 25% more catches to get that yardage. If T.Y. had 64 receptions he would of broke a 1000 yards and this isn't an exaggeration or my thought, that's based of facts and statistics. 

[IndyD4U]

It seems someone doesn't want me posting videos or Sammy Watkins highlights.

 

You're so wrong, JoKeR. I am 100% on board with Sammy Watkins and would love to see him in the horseshoe next year!

 

 

[Mouthfire]

I think your comment is out of left field. He has two DUIs... there are people who rarely drink but will drink-drive, whilst there are alcoholics who won't go near a vehicle... one is not overly indicitive of the other.

 

The vast majority of professional athletes still indulge in alcohol. It seems Blackmon's decision-making whilst drinking has been his problem, but I have seen no indication of a drink problem.

 

Regarding Blackmon, I don't know why this is even a discussion.  The guy has two DUIs.  By psychiatric standards (DSM-IV), he meets criteria for alcohol abuse.  By definition, he has a drinking problem.  There's no way around it.

 

And let's think about this for a second.  He got caught for a DUI... then he went out, and he did it again.  And who knows how many times he was driving under the influence, and didn't get caught.  So, either he's either got alcohol dependence, or he's just not so bright.

 

My advice?  Keep your draft pick and pick a 1st round WR in the next two years.  Chances are, he's going to be better talented without being damaged goods.

[Dustin]

Exactly, we are building an explosive offense and in any good offense your going to have multiple targets. You need players who make the most out of each reception and clearly that was T.Y. Hilton who only needed 50 receptions to rack up the same amount of yardage as Blackmon did with 64. This isn't even an argument, your right, Blackmon needed 25% more catches to get that yardage. If T.Y. had 64 receptions he would of broke a 1000 yards and this isn't an exaggeration or my thought, that's based of facts and statistics. 

 

Ok then TY was better than Calvin Johnson as well.

 

Hilton= 17.1 YPR

 

Johnson= 16.1 YPR.

 

If TY would have had 122 receptions then he would have had 2,086 yards.

 

He was better at making the most out of every opportunity. 

_________________________________________________________________

 

Obviously the above is an exaggeration, but TY has a higher YPC because he's strictly a deep threat. And with any deep threat you get the good with the bad. He can score from anywhere on the field given the opportunity, but he struggles in short and intermediate routes, meaning that we have trouble moving the chains.

[AntonMcG]

Regarding Blackmon, I don't know why this is even a discussion.  The guy has two DUIs.  By psychiatric standards (DSM-IV), he meets criteria for alcohol abuse.  By definition, he has a drinking problem.  There's no way around it.

 

And let's think about this for a second.  He got caught for a DUI... then he went out, and he did it again.  And who knows how many times he was driving under the influence, and didn't get caught.  So, either he's either got alcohol dependence, or he's just not so bright.

 

My advice?  Keep your draft pick and pick a 1st round WR in the next two years.  Chances are, he's going to be better talented without being damaged goods.

 

So there is evidence that he has been drunk twice before... his problem is decision making whilst intoxicated.

 

And do not try and twist things to support your point... alcohol abuse is technically anything over the recommended amount, that does not constitute an alcohol problem.

 

For me it is not about Blackmon, I know a trade would never happen and I'm not sure I would want it to happen. I just have a serious problem with the people here who spout there morality upon others as if there is some divine proclamation that their way of living is the standard to which the rest of us should strive to attain.

 

Yes, he has two DUIs and that isn't good, and he should be punished accordingly, but do not brand him as an alcoholic when there is no substantial evidence to support such a claim.

[jshipp23]

Exactly, we are building an explosive offense and in any good offense your going to have multiple targets. You need players who make the most out of each reception and clearly that was T.Y. Hilton who only needed 50 receptions to rack up the same amount of yardage as Blackmon did with 64. This isn't even an argument, your right, Blackmon needed 25% more catches to get that yardage. If T.Y. had 64 receptions he would of broke a 1000 yards and this isn't an exaggeration or my thought, that's based of facts and statistics. 

That had more to do with an inept quarterback then Blackmon...All things being equal Blackmon is better than anyone we have and every GM in the NFL would agree...

[jshipp23]

You're so wrong, JoKeR. I am 100% on board with Sammy Watkins and would love to see him in the horseshoe next year!

 

 

We aren't gonna have a chance at a guy like this picking 32nd, that's the point....We gotta get our big-time guy another way, maybe it is DHB, it's not out of the question , but I still need to see it...

[Dustin]

That had more to do with an inept quarterback then Blackmon...All things being equal Blackmon is better than anyone we have and every GM in the NFL would agree...

 

He's better than what we have at the #2, #3, and #4 spots for sure, but he's not better than Reggie IMO. He might be there one day, but Reggie is still a top receiver in this league even at age 35.

[Kyle]

If T.Y. had 64 receptions he would of broke a 1000 yards and this isn't an exaggeration or my thought, that's based of facts and statistics. 

 

key word "If".   You cannot call something a fact when talking about something that didnt happen.

 

the only fact is that Blackmon had more yards and receptions than TY last year.  Also, he played on a terrible team with a terrible QB.  

 

TY had a good year, but C'MON MAN!!!!!!!

[jshipp23]

He's better than what we have at the #2, #3, and #4 spots for sure, but he's not better than Reggie IMO. He might be there one day, but Reggie is still a top receiver in this league even at age 35.

I'm not sure how much Reggie has in the tank, he was unbelievable against Green Bay, but seemed to wear down as the season went on...

[Valpo2004]

You guys are giving Justin Blacmon wayyy too much credit. He's really not that good.

He didn't have a single 100 yard game until the Texans laid that egg on defense when they had a shootout with the Jags. Who ever heard of someone in a shootout with the Jags?

 

His stats have a big asterisk next to them that say "Blaine Gabbert was his QB."  

 

Seriously, what was Reggie's stats when he was catching the ball from Kerry Collins, Curtis Painter, and Dan Orlovsky?  

 

And for the record at least 2 of those guys are better then Blaine Gabbert.

[Valpo2004]

I'm not sure how much Reggie has in the tank, he was unbelievable against Green Bay, but seemed to wear down as the season went on...

 

Yeah that's something I'm worried about.  He didn't really have many standout performances after that and in a couple of different games appeared to be completely shut down.  

 

Houston for example shut him down in both games.  3 catches for 14 yards in the loss and even in the win 4 catches for 40 yards.

 

But in his defense 9 catches for 114 yards in the playoff loss against the Ravens.  However that might have been due to being targeted 17 times.

 

Interesting stat from last year, Every game except for the game against Green Bay in which Wayne was targeted more then 14 times was a loss.  

[TKnight24]

His stats have a big asterisk next to them that say "Blaine Gabbert was his QB."

Seriously, what was Reggie's stats when he was catching the ball from Kerry Collins, Curtis Painter, and Dan Orlovsky?

And for the record at least 2 of those guys are better then Blaine Gabbert.

Cecil Shorts had 4 100 yard games. But I guess he had his own personal QB right? He didn't have Gabbert throwing to him

[AntonMcG]

Cecil Shorts had 4 100 yard games. But I guess he had his own personal QB right? He didn't have Gabbert throwing to him

 

He didn't face double coverage either... Blackmon was a rookie for God's sake.

 

What were Damaryius Thomas' stats like before Manning?

 

I have no interest in this trade talk because it would never materialize but whilst Blackmon is not exactly elite, he is a very good receiver who will get a lot better, potentially top-10 in the league. His catching radius is crazy.

[jshipp23]

Cecil Shorts had 4 100 yard games. But I guess he had his own personal QB right? He didn't have Gabbert throwing to him

Your right, having a good QB makes no difference in a receivers stats...How many catches did Reggie have when Peyton went down???

[TKnight24]

He didn't face double coverage either... Blackmon was a rookie for God's sake.

What were Damaryius Thomas' stats like before Manning?

I have no interest in this trade talk because it would never materialize but whilst Blackmon is not exactly elite, he is a very good receiver who will get a lot better, potentially top-10 in the league. His catching radius is crazy.

Who double covered Blacmon? We didn't and I definitely know the Texans didn't

[TKnight24]

Your right, having a good QB makes no difference in a receivers stats...How many catches did Reggie have when Peyton went down???

Catches idk, but I know he still almost had 1000 yards receiving on the season

[jshipp23]

He didn't face double coverage either... Blackmon was a rookie for God's sake.

 

What were Damaryius Thomas' stats like before Manning?

 

I have no interest in this trade talk because it would never materialize but whilst Blackmon is not exactly elite, he is a very good receiver who will get a lot better, potentially top-10 in the league. His catching radius is crazy.

That's what makes him elite, everyone talks about the size and speed, but the guy reaches and snatches everything....Maybe, the Jags won't trade him to us cause we r in the same division and they know Luck would turn him into a monster, but I believe they would trade him..New coach and GM and the off-field stuff makes it very possible in my opinion, but it would still probably take a 1st to get him.....

[jshipp23]

Who double covered Blacmon? We didn't and I definitely know the Texans didn't

He was doubled a lot, and the Texans didn't, and he killed them....He was their only weapon period...They will be better this year with the weapons they've added as long as they play Henne instead of Gabbert...

[AntonMcG]

Who double covered Blacmon? We didn't and I definitely know the Texans didn't

 

That comment alone shows how much of Blackmon you watched last year. If your going to make an arguement, have some substance to it first.

[TKnight24]

That comment alone shows how much of Blackmon you watched last year. If your going to make an arguement, have some substance to it first.

I don't watch him cause I don't care for him. Seen him at Oklahoma State, that's all I needed to see. It took 3 simple plays for me to realize he was overrated in college

[Mouthfire]

So there is evidence that he has been drunk twice before... his problem is decision making whilst intoxicated.

 

And do not try and twist things to support your point... alcohol abuse is technically anything over the recommended amount, that does not constitute an alcohol problem.

 

For me it is not about Blackmon, I know a trade would never happen and I'm not sure I would want it to happen. I just have a serious problem with the people here who spout there morality upon others as if there is some divine proclamation that their way of living is the standard to which the rest of us should strive to attain.

 

Yes, he has two DUIs and that isn't good, and he should be punished accordingly, but do not brand him as an alcoholic when there is no substantial evidence to support such a claim.

 

You seem like a bright guy, Anton, but you couldn't be more wrong.  By definition, Justin Blackmon has an alcohol abuse problem.

 

Official medical criteria (DSM-IV) for alcohol abuse.  (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK44358/)

 

ALCOHOL ABUSE

(A) A maladaptive pattern of drinking, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by at least one of the following occurring within a 12-month period:

• Recurrent use of alcohol resulting in a failure to fulfill major role obligations at work, school, or home (e.g., repeated absences or poor work performance related to alcohol use; alcohol-related absences, suspensions, or expulsions from school; neglect of children or household)
• Recurrent alcohol use in situations in which it is physically hazardous (e.g., driving an automobile or operating a machine when impaired by alcohol use)
• Recurrent alcohol-related legal problems (e.g., arrests for alcohol-related disorderly conduct)
• Continued alcohol use despite having persistent or recurrent social or interpersonal problems caused or exacerbated by the effects of alcohol (e.g., arguments with spouse about consequences of intoxication).

 

It really doesn't get much clearer than that.  Blackmon has an alcohol abuse problem.

[Valpo2004]

Anyways I have to say while I think Blackmon has great potential with a good QB, I wouldn't want to spend a first on a guy with an alcohol problem.  Too big of a risk.

 

Maybe a 3rd.  

 

But I certainly think they need to get a #1 WR next year.  Even if it means trading up to get the right guy.  

[AntonMcG]

You seem like a bright guy, Anton, but you couldn't be more wrong.  By definition, Justin Blackmon has an alcohol abuse problem.

 

Official DSM-IV criteria for alcohol abuse.  (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK44358/)

 

 

It really doesn't get much clearer than that.

 

I am distinguishing between alcohol abuse and an alcohol problem. Two DUIs do not make anyone an alcoholic, they make them stupid and irresponsible while drinking. I am no way excusing the behaviour but call it what it is, not what you think it might be.

 

The automatic presumption of a lot of posters here is one of contempt for something that has little premise. I find that extremely aggravating.

[Mouthfire]

I am distinguishing between alcohol abuse and an alcohol problem. Two DUIs do not make anyone an alcoholic, they make them stupid and irresponsible while drinking. I am no way excusing the behaviour but call it what it is, not what you think it might be.

 

The automatic presumption of a lot of posters here is one of contempt for something that has little premise. I find that extremely aggravating.

 

You don't think alcohol abuse is a problem?  I would say 99.9999% of the medical and legal world disagrees with you. 

[AntonMcG]

You don't think alcohol abuse is a problem?  I would say 99.9999% of the medical and legal world disagrees with you. 

 

I am talking about a clear difference between a behaviour and an addiction... don't lump them together and call them the same thing.

[Gavin]

So there is evidence that he has been drunk twice before... his problem is decision making whilst intoxicated.

 

And do not try and twist things to support your point... alcohol abuse is technically anything over the recommended amount, that does not constitute an alcohol problem.

 

For me it is not about Blackmon, I know a trade would never happen and I'm not sure I would want it to happen. I just have a serious problem with the people here who spout there morality upon others as if there is some divine proclamation that their way of living is the standard to which the rest of us should strive to attain.

 

Yes, he has two DUIs and that isn't good, and he should be punished accordingly, but do not brand him as an alcoholic when there is no substantial evidence to support such a claim.

Being in trouble for it twice before but going out in doing it again constitutes a potential alcohol problem, As for decision making while intoxicated, Thats 90 plus percent of the US population or more of those people that drink, ya do dumb stuff while drunk or you say dumb stuff thats what alcohol is supposed to do to a person loosen them up.thats not his problem, The problem is why is he drinking to begin with after being repeatedly scolded for it, Is he an alcohlic? Well thats not for anyone to decide but himself first and foremost but he clearly shows signs of not being able to say no to it after being told to on more then one occasion

[bluebambi]

Drinking is very bad people, don't do it

This message has been brought to you by your friendly forum member TKnight85 & is paid for by the TKnight loves apple juice foundation

It's the cause and the solution to every problem in th world .

[Mouthfire]

I am talking about a clear difference between a behaviour and an addiction... don't lump them together and call them the same thing.

 

Do you know why "alcohol abuse" exists as a standardized medical diagnosis?  Because people who have alcohol abuse have a strikingly high incidence of medical, legal, and social problems.  It doesn't matter if it's formally an addiction or not.  Those are the guys who are going to get into a lot of legal and social problems.  Historical medical studies will bear that out.

 

Again, there's no way around it.  Justin Blackmon has an alcohol problem.  He's damaged goods.

[Superman]

its not that confusing...im using the stats u posted...

 

Blackmon receptions: 64

Hilton receptions: 50

 

the more receptions the better...  this is not even an argument.  

 

???

 

Blackmon touchdowns: 5

Hilton touchdowns: 7

 

The more touchdowns the better. This is not even an argument.

 

Of course, that's not the way you determine who performed better. Can't just take one stat and compare, then say one guy is better than the other. For me, Hilton and Blackmon were a push last season. And that's after I begrudgingly compare them, considering the fact that one was primarily in the slot and the other was primarily on the outside. One was the primary receiving option, while the other was second or third. It's just not really a good comparison to begin with.

[AntonMcG]

Being in trouble for it twice before but going out in doing it again constitutes a potential alcohol problem, As for decision making while intoxicated, Thats 90 plus percent of the US population or more of those people that drink, ya do dumb stuff while drunk or you say dumb stuff thats what alcohol is supposed to do to a person loosen them up.thats not his problem, The problem is why is he drinking to begin with after being repeatedly scolded for it, Is he an alcohlic? Well thats not for anyone to decide but himself first and foremost but he clearly shows signs of not being able to say no to it after being told to on more then one occasion

 

No, he did it twice total... the third incident was drug-related... unsure of what kind exactly (performance-enhanacing or social), but that is a different argument altogether. Alcohol is legal, drugs are not.

 

Getting DUIs does not mean you are not allowed to drink anymore. I think life would be pretty bleak at times without an occasional whiskey... queue the morally superior onslaught....

 

Exactly Gavin... we don't know if he's an alcoholic... so why presume?

[schwamm]

So there is evidence that he has been drunk twice before... his problem is decision making whilst intoxicated.

I agree with Anton on this one. Legal definition is not definitive proof of an actual problem. There could be, but that's not the same as "there is".

I think the more reasonable explanation is that he has a talented football player's sense of entitlement. No reason to follow rules, because he is above them, and has consistently had people help him get out of trouble for no reason more than his talent.

Until the system changes itself (not likely to happen), the Blackmons of the world will continue to struggle to learn from their bad behavior.

[Superman]

I agree with Anton on this one. Legal definition is not definitive proof of an actual problem. There could be, but that's not the same as "there is".

I think the more reasonable explanation is that he has a talented football player's sense of entitlement. No reason to follow rules, because he is above them, and has consistently had people help him get out of trouble for no reason more than his talent.

Until the system changes itself (not likely to happen), the Blackmons of the world will continue to struggle to learn from their bad behavior.

 

I think the problem is poor judgment. When you have significant resources at your disposal, and you've already had a DUI, getting another one is evidence of poor judgment. The first one probably was as well, but not learning from that first one is what bothers me.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to label him an alcoholic, or even an alcohol abuser (he might be; I haven't exactly pored over all the facts related to his incidents, nor do I intend to). He might have just made bad decisions on a couple of occasions. A lot of us have done the same. But what bothers me is that he has resources that make it very easy to avoid driving under the influence, and did it anyways. Twice. With so much to lose, financially and professionally. That's poor judgment, and it makes it hard to trust him to make good decisions.