Let's Face Facts Angerer Is Our Best Linebacker

[basketballsteve]

19 games as a Colt with zero interceptions and zero passes defended and he's playing in a cover 2 system where the MLB is supposed to cover the middle on every pass. Add to that he's never made a play to turn a loss into a win (Bracket has done that numerous times), So no you're just wrong, he's not our best linebacker.

[1959Colts]

Gary Brackett is just a crappy MLB.

[basketballsteve]

Reverse the logic of this thread, if Pat is so great because he's had a lot of tackles then Freeny must not be that good because his tackling stats are never high,, EVER but Freeny is a playmaker who has turned many games into wins with a crucial play and Pat has not done that even 1 time.

[Superman]

19 games as a Colt with zero interceptions and zero passes defended and he's playing in a cover 2 system where the MLB is supposed to cover the middle on every pass. Add to that he's never made a play to turn a loss into a win (Bracket has done that numerous times), So no you're just wrong, he's not our best linebacker.

I think you're being nostalgic. Brackett didn't play well last year, and he got hurt. He showed that he still has great instincts in the Texans game, but he's not around the ball nearly as much as Pat has been. I'm not here to argue that Pat is our best linebacker. But I'm not giving Gary that distinction either.

[JoKeR]

I don't get the negativity against Gary. He is better than Angerer overall because of coverage skills alone. I think the coaching staff got it right with the starting lineup of Conner, Brackett, and Angerer. It allows Brackett to cover and takes advantage of Conner's and Angerer's run stopping/ tackling abilities. Then bring in Sims on passing Downs or even go from a 4-3 to a nickel formation on the fly.

[21isSuperman]

He's a very good MLB, but where would we put Gary if we were to leave Angerer at MLB?

[GoColts8818]

Here's the thing, Angerer, Conner, and Brackett with Wheeler as a sub guy is our best group of linebackers we have had in a long time. The things Angerer does well he can do from the OLB spot or the MLB spot. His weaknesses show up (and yes he has them EVERY player does so it's not a knock on him) more when you put him in the MLB, in that he needs to develop some pass defense to be a good MLB in a cover-2 system or you are going to keep seeing teams attacking that middle of the field till he proves he can stop it. Gary, is very good at calling out the plays as someone else pointed in this thread and he is very good at pass coverage, his skills work better at MLB. We also have never seen Gary play OLB so we have no idea if he can or not. Having Gary and Pat where they play when they are healthy is the best thing for this team right now. With that said clearly Angerer is the MLB of the future and he's going to be a very good one. He's probably the next linebacker we keep like we did with Gary.

[Coffeedrinker]

Reverse the logic of this thread, if Pat is so great because he's had a lot of tackles then Freeny must not be that good because his tackling stats are never high,, EVER but Freeny is a playmaker who has turned many games into wins with a crucial play and Pat has not done that even 1 time.

Neither of those is a logical argument. On Freeney's effectiveness is not based on tackles or even sacks. It's based on pressuring the QB and how many blockers it takes to stop him from doing that. A MIKE's effectiness, even in the Cover 2, is based in large part by making tackles. In the run game the gaps are designed so the RB and the MIKE are hitting the same gap. In the pass game it is set up so the MIKE can make the tackle after the WR/TE/RB makes the catch.

As far as claiming he's not made any plays that have turned a loss into a win. That is just ridiculous. We here coaches and players talk about the difference between winning and losing boils down to about 5 or 6 plays.

I understand liking Brackett, he's one of my favorite players as well. I don't understand bashing Angerer or Brackett to prove anything about the other. Angerer has played 7 games at MIKE and he has gotten better every game and last night he dominated the position. I hope they can figure out a way to get Brackett on the field when he gets to feeling better, but I hope it doesn't take snaps away from Angerer playing MIKE.

[chad72]

Here's the thing, Angerer, Conner, and Brackett with Wheeler as a sub guy is our best group of linebackers we have had in a long time. The things Angerer does well he can do from the OLB spot or the MLB spot. His weaknesses show up (and yes he has them EVERY player does so it's not a knock on him) more when you put him in the MLB, in that he needs to develop some pass defense to be a good MLB in a cover-2 system or you are going to keep seeing teams attacking that middle of the field till he proves he can stop it. Gary, is very good at calling out the plays as someone else pointed in this thread and he is very good at pass coverage, his skills work better at MLB. We also have never seen Gary play OLB so we have no idea if he can or not. Having Gary and Pat where they play when they are healthy is the best thing for this team right now. With that said clearly Angerer is the MLB of the future and he's going to be a very good one. He's probably the next linebacker we keep like we did with Gary.

That is where coaching comes in, they need to come up with ways to get Gary and Angerer on the field together. Maybe Angerer plays Conner's position on passing downs (3rd and longs). But Brackett is not the same kind of pass defender he was a few years ago, so not sure if moving Angerer from the MLB spot for the passing downs is the right call. We will find out sooner or later, won't we???

[GoColts8818]

That is where coaching comes in, they need to come up with ways to get Gary and Angerer on the field together. Maybe Angerer plays Conner's position on passing downs (3rd and longs). But Brackett is not the same kind of pass defender he was a few years ago, so not sure if moving Angerer from the MLB spot for the passing downs is the right call. We will find out sooner or later, won't we???

They do, they play Gary at MLB and Angerer at OLB and it plays to their strengths and hides some of their weaknesses. Also Conner has been a monster this season as well. He had 10 tackles last night only to be out done by Angerer's 21. We have a two very good young linebackers. Like I said in my post, those two plus Brackett and Wheeler as a sub guy gives us our best group of linebackers we have had in years.

[coltfaninnewyork]

does angerer remind anybody of zach thomas?

[JoKeR]

I still want to see Sims play, Wheeler played well but he's probably a big upgrade over him. Tell me he's not on IR.

[JoKeR]

does angerer remind anybody of zach thomas?

Thomas is more like Bracket to me but yeah.

[Yehoodi]

Gary Brackett is my favorite Colt . . . but gotta love that Angerererer guy . . . .

[Douzer]

From my Armchair:

Stuffing the run forces long yardage downs and brings the game to Freeney and Mathis. Waiting for a lead to put the defense in position to compete has been a strategic shortcoming. That is why the defense competed so well last night. Stopping the run allowed it to play to its strength, regardless of the score.

Furthermore, trying to hang the gaffs in coverage last night on Angerer is absurd IMHO. A rookie safety and a rookie corner were introduced to the line-up last night. More cohesiveness in the secondary will yield even better results.

Also, Maurice Jones-Drew, Arian Foster & Chris Johnson rushing right through the Colts defense 6 times a year has not been enjoyable to me. Nor is it entertaining to watch Payton Manning stand on the sidelines 40 minutes a game with his arms folded.

Finally, Gary Brackett has forced 4 fumbles and intercepted 12 passes in 9 years at MLB. He had a grand total of 2 INT's and 1 FF in his first 4 years. Let's not understate or overstate his coverage skills. This conversation isn’t about dumping on Gary, it's about putting players in position to make the defense better, and the defense has clearly been better with Angerer in the middle. At Gary's age, having him play outside and/or nickel should not be considered heresy or extreme thinking.

[Smitto]

19 games as a Colt with zero interceptions and zero passes defended and he's playing in a cover 2 system where the MLB is supposed to cover the middle on every pass. Add to that he's never made a play to turn a loss into a win (Bracket has done that numerous times), So no you're just wrong, he's not our best linebacker.

When has brackett cause a loss into a win? Pat is a very good MLB and he will only keep getting better in recognizing plays, if you look at his play in college he was very good dropping back and picking off the ball.

[coltfaninnewyork]

Angerer was in on 21 tackles that's pretty darn good,he will be a player.

[indy_nick]

I think Conner, Wheeler, and Angerer had a heck of a game against the Steelers. It did worry me that we gave up a lot of passing yards over the middle however. I like Coffee's idea of bring in Bracket in passing situations. Have him just stick with a guy until our d-line can wreak havok on the opposing QB

[Coffeedrinker]

I think Conner, Wheeler, and Angerer had a heck of a game against the Steelers. It did worry me that we gave up a lot of passing yards over the middle however. I like Coffee's idea of bring in Bracket in passing situations. Have him just stick with a guy until our d-line can wreak havok on the opposing QB

I just want to point out that bring Brackett in as a nickel was someone else's idea that I agree with, I can't take credit for the idea itself.

And I agree about the LBers. IMO Wheeler and Angerer are the two best LBers on the team. Conner is a force against the run but a little weak in pass coverage. Unfortunately for the Colts, in the preseason and against the Texans, Sims did not offer much more in pass coverage.

[basketballsteve]

When has brackett cause a loss into a win? Pat is a very good MLB and he will only keep getting better in recognizing plays, if you look at his play in college he was very good dropping back and picking off the ball.

You've got to be joking. In the 14-2 season against the Ravens with the Ravens driving for the winning score, Colts show Flacco a double A gap blitz with Bracket, Flacco tries to throw underneath to Rice and Gary drops out of the blitz and intercepts to preserve the victory OR the "rosencopter" game against the Texans when Gary scoops the fumble and runs it back for the TD (total tide turner). That's just 2 off the top of my head.

[basketballsteve]

Neither of those is a logical argument. On Freeney's effectiveness is not based on tackles or even sacks. It's based on pressuring the QB and how many blockers it takes to stop him from doing that. A MIKE's effectiness, even in the Cover 2, is based in large part by making tackles. In the run game the gaps are designed so the RB and the MIKE are hitting the same gap. In the pass game it is set up so the MIKE can make the tackle after the WR/TE/RB makes the catch.

As far as claiming he's not made any plays that have turned a loss into a win. That is just ridiculous. We here coaches and players talk about the difference between winning and losing boils down to about 5 or 6 plays.

I understand liking Brackett, he's one of my favorite players as well. I don't understand bashing Angerer or Brackett to prove anything about the other. Angerer has played 7 games at MIKE and he has gotten better every game and last night he dominated the position. I hope they can figure out a way to get Brackett on the field when he gets to feeling better, but I hope it doesn't take snaps away from Angerer playing MIKE.

I'm not sure that Bracket is our best linebacker either and I wasn't saying that. As for the reverse logic of using tackles as the measuring stick for the value of any player, you are making my point, that there is no single stat that tells the value of the defensive player. Does a shut down corner get a lot of tackles? No not usually. If a linebacker doesn't have a fair number of tackles (think Gilbert Gardner) then yes the stat is meaningful. It doesn't prove Pat is our best linebacker he has a huge hole in his game.....he hasn't yet shown he can cover.

[Jason_]

First of all, I haven't been a fan of Brackett's since....ever.

Angerer is going to be a good player for us for a lot of years to come and I love what he brings to the run defense. With that said he struggles in pass defense and frankly teams are taking advantage of Brackett not being there on third downs. Almost every one of those players go to the middle of the field between the safety and the MLB. Normally if Brackett is there he'll bring some of those up and even get an INT now and then. Angerer is a little too slow to get back in pass defense. Don't get me wrong I love what Angerer brings to this team and I think even when Brackett is back Angerer can keep providing those things from his OLB spot but we are missing Brackett's pass defense at MLB.

Well here's a thought....stop running the MIKE into deep zone coverage where a MIKE has no business being. man I hate the tampa 2.

Just keep him from covering anything deep because I haven't even seen him knock down a pass. The problem is that's what MLBs in a cover 2 do, they cover deep like Bracket. It seems like our OLBs are not responsible to cover as much field as the MLBs. So it kinda makes sense why we had Conner and Angerer on the outsides.Colts need to change somethings so our MLBs don't have to cover so much of the field.

Im loving his run defense though, he's a BAMF.

no, no no....covering deep is NOT what a MIKE is supposed to do in a cover 2. That's what the MIKE is supposed to do in the TAMPA 2. In a standard cover 2, the 3 LBs each cover a 3rd of the field between the 8-12 yard area. The MIKE in a tampa 2 drops back to the same level of the safeties creating more of a cover 3 shell.

19 games as a Colt with zero interceptions and zero passes defended and he's playing in a cover 2 system where the MLB is supposed to cover the middle on every pass. Add to that he's never made a play to turn a loss into a win (Bracket has done that numerous times), So no you're just wrong, he's not our best linebacker.

If Angerer were responsible for covering the short/middle area of the field like a normal cover 2 LB then he would have passes defended and possibly an interception or 2...at least a few knockdowns. The problem is that they call the tampa 2 on pretty much 50% or more of the plays so that puts the MIKE in a position where the MIKE simply shouldn't be. It was a novel idea and it worked for a while because it threw people off. They've figured it out now and, like the wildcat, should be put on the shelf to rot away forever. If they want a third person in deep zone coverage then bring in an extra safety or CB.

[jared3]

I loved it when the Colts selected Pat Angerer in the draft.

[gilmoreag]

Sims is out with an injury, who knows when he is gonna return.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully he'll get better soon. His problem isn't a concussion is it?

[Jay305]

im still not comfortable with him in any kind of coverage man or zone but he is a tackling machine

[Smitto]

Thanks for the info. Hopefully he'll get better soon. His problem isn't a concussion is it?

Nahh he suffered a knee injury, no ones sure when he's gonna be back i doubt he'll be back this week.. guessing its a pretty serious injury.

[zachb]

Pat is for sure our future sometimes we have to let things go. Gary brackett has been great but is no longer our best mlb.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Before we write off Brackett here has ANYONE THOUGHT THAT MAYBE ARE DT"S ARE PLAYING MUCH BETTER VS THE RUN THUS FREEING UP THE MIC BACKER TO MAKE MORE PLAYS?

[Portage Coltfans]

Angerer is good, and could get better.

but if he is your best LB, then that isn't a good thing. There a a lot better LB's in the game and I hope we draft at least one more better than Angerer.