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Polians grades for free agents we signed


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Absolutely no need to say sorry. I thought it was pretty clear that you and Gav were wrestling over the quality of the signings, and I was using that as a cheap shot at our nepotistic ex GM who I believe ruined the reputation of our franchise and the legacy of PM.

Not many people realize it but for all that "glory" over the past 14 years the Colts underachieved pretty drastically thanks to Tony Dungy and his lack of killer instinct.  Manning struggled in the playoffs too but without his great regular season play they don't make the playoff so he gets a pass.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFoT7FpEAcs

 

The look on Peyton's face at 2:54 is definitely how his career has went. It's a perfect reaction.

 

 

Wierd things happen when you play the Steelers, ala the Immaculate Reception. As Manning has had some very ill luck, the Steelers always seem to have a horseshoe, no pun intended, up their you know what. I remember Flacco throwing that interception to Polomalu when we got a kickoff return near midfield in the Championship game, and an * special teamer, Darren Stone, committed a personal foul pushing us back to the 20, and forcing Flacco into obvious passing situations, with little time left.

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Why should you give a rip what non-Colts fans think?    Who cares?

 

You disagree with the decision that was made.   Fine.   But fans have no responsibility and they always want it both ways.   If the Colts had played everyone and gone for perfect season, and someone had gotten hurt in those games and that led to losing in the playoffs,  fans here would've gone crazy for that.    Maybe not you, maybe not everyone,  but most would've.   That's the nature of being a fan.

 

That's not a Colts fans issue,  that the same with all fans of all teams in all sports.   They want things both ways so they're never wrong.     That's a fan issue.

You sound like a 'neutral' who has never really supported a team. Being business like is fine, but passion is not in your blood. I would much rather we had went all out for the perfect season, and lost Manning rather than watch that cowardly first snap by Painter. Sport was not created for that disgusting episode. Who Dares Wins.

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Sausage and Bix and Gravy for breakfast.............

 

 

Go Colts................

 

Dude is going on about the infamous 09 :" freez out" .....     

 

SIT Down.........................................

 

 

OLD NEWS..............

 

Is that you Jim Irsay tweeting again ?

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Wierd things happen when you play the Steelers, ala the Immaculate Reception. As Manning has had some very ill luck, the Steelers always seem to have a horseshoe, no pun intended, up their you know what. I remember Flacco throwing that interception to Polomalu when we got a kickoff return near midfield in the Championship game, and an * special teamer, Darren Stone, committed a personal foul pushing us back to the 20, and forcing Flacco into obvious passing situations, with little time left.

 

That is for sure. I wanted to get our chance for payback in the 2010 playoffs after the Jet game, but we all know what happened that day.

 

I honestly think we would have beaten them in Pittsburgh, and I finally would have been able to see a Colts game. Thanks to Caldwell though I never got to see Peyton play in person as a Colt.

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That is for sure. I wanted to get our chance for payback in the 2010 playoffs after the Jet game, but we all know what happened that day.

 

I honestly think we would have beaten them in Pittsburgh, and I finally would have been able to see a Colts game. Thanks to Caldwell though I never got to see Peyton play in person as a Colt.

 

I've seen many horrible things happen against Pittsburgh, not only for Indy, but especially for Baltimore. They beat the Baltimore Colts in every playoff game, and the Ravens have not beaten them in a playoff game. Even the Orioles lost the 1971 and 1979 World Series to Pittsburgh ! I'm hoping this Super Bowl broke their deal with the devil ! LOL

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You sound like a 'neutral' who has never really supported a team. Being business like is fine, but passion is not in your blood. I would much rather we had went all out for the perfect season, and lost Manning rather than watch that cowardly first snap by Painter. Sport was not created for that disgusting episode. Who Dares Wins.

 

That's a fair observation.  But not entirely correct.   I was a huge fan of teams growing up.   But when I became a sports producer for local TV stations in Los Angeles in my 20's, I found being a fan of teams to be counter-productive.   So, while I may have pulled for certain teams here and there, I didn't live and die with the outcome.   Professionally, I thought it helped me to do my job better.   But make no mistake,  there is great passion in my blood.   I just try to control it rather than have my passion control me.

 

I've always been a fan of well run franchises in all sports.   I appreciate how hard it is to do.   And I respect teams that do it well over a long period of time.    For instance, I admire the Pittsburgh Steelers.   3 coaches in roughly 45-50 years!?!?   Incredible.  Sustained success over all that time?!   Amazing.    But I don't live and die with the Steelers.

 

I've read enough about Polian to understand that he had worn out his welcome here and it was time to go and have a fresh start.   I get that, and I support that.   I liked Grigson before the draft.   I read stories from interviews he gave and liked his view of running a franchise.   Liked his hire of Pagano.     I think the trio of Irsary/Grigson/Pagano is a winning one for Indianapolis.   The fact that my favorite player -- Andrew Luck -- is now a part of this franchise is Icing on the Cake for me!   Makes being a fan of the Colts even easier.

 

But, one year in,  and I don't live and die with wins and losses.   At least, not yet.   I may someday.   But not yet.

 

And I don't begrudge those that do.   I wouldn't presume to tell any fan not to live and die with their team.   That's what being a fan is all about!    I live and die with Stanford football.    

 

All I ask is for some perspective....   that's all....    For me, at least,  it's a healthier way to live....

 

Just my two cents....   (OK,  maybe more like 4 cents!)

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 I live and die with Stanford football.    

 

One last thought.   If you're a fan of Stanford football and you live and die with it....

 

Over the last 40 years or so there has been much, Much, MUCH more dying than there's been living!    

 

I've known more than my share of disappointment.    So, these last few years of incredible success have been might sweet!   :thmup:  

 

Mighty sweet indeed!      :worthy:

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Irsay, Dungy, Polian and Manning are all incredibly talented people.  Polian and Manning are agressive A type personalities and control freaks.  Irsay and Dungy are equally passionate but have easy going natures and were needed to keep things calm.  The 4 of them balanced each other out. To find the reason we only won 1 Super Bowl, all you need to do is look no further than the current New England Patriots.  Highest paid QB, average to below average defense, great offense....win lots of regular season games and lose in the Super Bowl.  Who's fault is it?  All 4.  Manning made too much money.  Polian didn't build the defense.  Dungy allowed his buddies like Meeks to coach and Irsay let the whole thing continue on.  Irsay learned from his mistakes and is now building the beast. 

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I've seen many horrible things happen against Pittsburgh, not only for Indy, but especially for Baltimore. They beat the Baltimore Colts in every playoff game, and the Ravens have not beaten them in a playoff game. Even the Orioles lost the 1971 and 1979 World Series to Pittsburgh ! I'm hoping this Super Bowl broke their deal with the devil ! LOL

Try being a Colts fans who doesn't pretend that they ceased to exist.

 

Yes, the Colts lost to the Steelers in 75 and 76, but they also lost in 95 and 96, and then that infamous 05 game. Thank goodness they won the SB in 06. If the pattern had continued I might have needed to be committed (at least until training camp opened again). Such a great franchise, but I want them to LOSE LOSE LOSE always - I just can't take it any more. 0-5 in the playoffs, including knocking the Colts out in four out of six appearances over a 21 year period? Yes, it feels like they sold their souls or something.

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He is a proven good evaluator...... His son not so much but Bill built a career doing it so I like to hear what he thinks he did give us 10 great NFL years.

I am not too crazy about him back loading so many contracts on some of his boys. A huge blunder on Collins who was paid 4 million dollars for what?  How about his boy Painter? The over 38 million in dead cap money was also hard for the Colts to take. Polian may be a great evaluator  but just not very good at the money side of being a GM. 

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Why does Irsay get a pass from most Colt's fans for the 2009 decision, and only one Super Bowl win with Manning ? Wasn't he part of the management team with Polian ? Some of you believe he is the greatest owner in football, and Polian did nothing. If you're going to take down Polian, you need to take down Irsay also.

Dear Lord, get over your Irsay hate

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quote name="Dustin" post="440236" timestamp="1363392146"]

Reggie Wayne, Edge James, Jeff Saturday, Robert Mathis, Dwight Freeney, Bob Sanders, Antoine Bethea. On that list I see 7 pro bowlers, 3-4 hall of famers, 1 DPOY, and 6 super bowl champions. Those were Polian moves. Seriously, you don't even know what your talking about. You should feel foolish.

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As much as I don't want to pick a concrete side in this little tirade, I do see the animosity toward the Polian name linked to a certain Jets game in 2009. Our HOF Center even came out with some words about regretting not going for perfection. I am simply a fan of this great franchise, so of course I was disappointed to see the crow-eating grin on Rex Ryan's fat face following their "win" against us.

 

I also grew up in a house of Buffalo Bills fans so I have been groomed by BIll Polian football most of my life. He was responsible for 6 Super Bowl teams in my household collectively. However, I lost a massive load of respect for him after he threw Howard Mudd and the offensive line under the bus for the loss in XLIV. Peyton was not sacked that game.

 

The guy had a mouth about him, and his shooing his son into the job was plain wrong. Personally, I'm glad he's gone and that Grigson is our man. In saying that, I really do not take anything regarding our free-agency signings seriously.

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Try being a Colts fans who doesn't pretend that they ceased to exist.

 

Yes, the Colts lost to the Steelers in 75 and 76, but they also lost in 95 and 96, and then that infamous 05 game. Thank goodness they won the SB in 06. If the pattern had continued I might have needed to be committed (at least until training camp opened again). Such a great franchise, but I want them to LOSE LOSE LOSE always - I just can't take it any more. 0-5 in the playoffs, including knocking the Colts out in four out of six appearances over a 21 year period? Yes, it feels like they sold their souls or something.

 

I was at those games in Baltimore in the 70's, what do you want me to say , they were in Indy at that time ? Do you want me to say the Indy Colts lost to the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 1970's , when they were in Baltimore ? I'm not knocking that the Indy Colts have had bad luck against the Steelers also, but Baltimore's has been worse, by far.

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As much as I don't want to pick a concrete side in this little tirade, I do see the animosity toward the Polian name linked to a certain Jets game in 2009. Our HOF Center even came out with some words about regretting not going for perfection. I am simply a fan of this great franchise, so of course I was disappointed to see the crow-eating grin on Rex Ryan's fat face following their "win" against us.

 

I also grew up in a house of Buffalo Bills fans so I have been groomed by BIll Polian football most of my life. He was responsible for 6 Super Bowl teams in my household collectively. However, I lost a massive load of respect for him after he threw Howard Mudd and the offensive line under the bus for the loss in XLIV. Peyton was not sacked that game.

 

The guy had a mouth about him, and his shooing his son into the job was plain wrong. Personally, I'm glad he's gone and that Grigson is our man. In saying that, I really do not take anything regarding our free-agency signings seriously.

So in 14 years he hired his son, and he threw one offensive co-ordinator under the bus, and he's a bum for it ? Sure he made some mistakes, but heck, you have to give him some credit for what he did for Indy .

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Dear Lord, get over your Irsay hate

 

 

It's not about hate, I just don't think they are the greatest ownership family in NFL history. The Jimmy side, part 2, is far superior to part 1 , featuring Bob. The family went 34 years without winning a Super Bowl. Polian and Manning were huge parts of the rebirth of the Colts, and I also give Jummy credit for handing the reigns over to professional football people, and being part of the management team . Synder and Jones are still struggling with this concept. Like Al Davis, when the owner starts to think it's all about them, that's when your team is in trouble. I saw it happen with the Baltimore Colts, and the Baltimore Orioles.

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I thought I'd give my two cents on Polian. This is only my second post on this forum so bear with me.

Polian has arguably the best track record of any gm ever. There's a reason he's with espn, his system of evaluation and expertise is unparalleled. Bill's problem was that he became too powerful in Indianapolis. He thought he was above Irsay, and the firing had probably more to do with that than anything else. He also was slipping towards the end of his career. Handing over the "gm" title to his son was a mistake, although I highly doubt his son made the final calls on anything. Not drafting an offensive lineman instead of jerry hughes in 2010 was awful. And he's admitted that more than once. A big regret of his. But his track record in Indy is, aside from Manning's brilliance, the biggest reason for our dominance from '99 to 2011. All it takes is to look at the pickups and draft picks (aside from hughes) and you see brilliance. He had his way, bringing up through the system. Built the team around manning. Wanted to trade manning in '04 when his value was high, and build a defensive team like the ravens or bucs. Thank God for Irsay dropping the hammer on that. I didnt exactly like his system, but it worked. I love Ryan Grigson's. I love Chuck Pagano's defense and his fire. I'm really going to enjoy Pep Hamilton's offense with Luck under center. But give credit where it's due, and Bill Polian deserves a lot for getting us where we are. In good times and bad. Great football mind. But his arrogance was his flaw. Is his flaw I might say.

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People can dislike Polian for how things ended here and that's fine and fair to an extent, namely his draft busts.  However, if people want to be fair then they also need to acknowledge that Polian was the driving force behind turning the Colts from NFL laughing stock to NFL powerhouse.  Yes they had a nice little run before Polian got here but Polian is the man who turned Indianapolis fans from thinking 8-8 was a good season to thinking anything short of a Super Bowl was a disappointment.  Make no mistake Peyton Manning was without a question his best player but Manning was not the only good player on those teams.  Wayne, Edge, Saturday, Mathis, Freeney, AV, and Bethea didn't draft/sign themselves.  Heck even Manning didn't draft himself.  Polian molded a team that set the NFL record for most wins in a decade.  So while he didn't get to ride off into the sunset like I am sure he would have liked let's not kid ourselves the man was really really good at his job for a long time.  I know the Colts might not have won as many Super Bowls as some fans would have liked under Polian but at the sametime short of three or four teams any team in the NFL would trade their run while we had Polian for what we had while we had Polian.  I can understand people don't like how it ended under Polian but one bad year (even as bad as it was) doesn't discount everything else that happened during Polian's time here. 

 

Polian has always been a very smart football mind.  Frankly the fact that him and other former GMs are loving what Grigson did with our money makes me feel really good.  They are probably in a much better spot to be a judge of what we did with our money than say Brad Wells.  I think everyone who is disappointed in them just needs to sit back and at least let them have one practice or heaven forbid a game before they rip Grigson to shreds over the moves.  Also I would like to see how all these contracts are laid out over the life of their contracts.  It could be Grigson is front loading these contracts to make sure we have cap space going forward as well. 

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Meh, I always disliked the way the manning era colts were built. Polian built a team win to in the regular season and to dominate the afc south.

You can't win in the playoffs if you can't win during the regular season to get to the playoffs.  Our issues in the playoffs was that our players didn't play like they did during the regular season to get there.  People don't like to say that and put the blame on the players but I remember the players not preforming well in the playoffs and that being why we lost that us not having talent.  That goes on the players not the GM. 

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I respect your comments. But Manning has 1 ring, when his ability should have put him up there with Montana and Brady etc. 2009 disgraced the franchise. And will always cast a shadow over our great org. Always......

Manning is far from the only quarterback who lacks rings compared to his talent. I don't think it is directly Polian's fault by any means.

Dan Fouts, Frank Tarkenton, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino and Warren Moon have no SB rings. And those are very common names around this forum.

Steve Young only has 1 SB ring and he was with the 49ers in the Bill Walsh era, that does not cast a poor light on Steve Young. Therefore why should it upon Manning and the Colts and in your opinion Polian?

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Manning is far from the only quarterback who lacks rings compared to his talent. 

Dan Fouts, Frank Tarkenton, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino and Warren Moon have no SB rings. And those are very common names around this forum.

Add in the fact that guys like Brett Favre, Len Dawson, Steve Young (only won one as a starter), Joe Namath, Drew Brees and Joe Thiesman are all in the Hall of Fame  or will be in the case of Favre and Brees with only one Ring and Peyton Manning is far from being poor company.  As I always tell my friends when they complain about the Colts only winning one Super Bowl it could always be worse we could be Chargers fans.  At least we got our one.  The Chargers never even got to one and only got to one AFC Title game and during that whole run beat one team not named the Colts one time in the playoffs or won three playoff games in total.

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I thought I'd give my two cents on Polian. This is only my second post on this forum so bear with me.

Polian has arguably the best track record of any gm ever. There's a reason he's with espn, his system of evaluation and expertise is unparalleled. Bill's problem was that he became too powerful in Indianapolis. He thought he was above Irsay, and the firing had probably more to do with that than anything else. He also was slipping towards the end of his career. Handing over the "gm" title to his son was a mistake, although I highly doubt his son made the final calls on anything. Not drafting an offensive lineman instead of jerry hughes in 2010 was awful. And he's admitted that more than once. A big regret of his. But his track record in Indy is, aside from Manning's brilliance, the biggest reason for our dominance from '99 to 2011. All it takes is to look at the pickups and draft picks (aside from hughes) and you see brilliance. He had his way, bringing up through the system. Built the team around manning. Wanted to trade manning in '04 when his value was high, and build a defensive team like the ravens or bucs. Thank God for Irsay dropping the hammer on that. I didnt exactly like his system, but it worked. I love Ryan Grigson's. I love Chuck Pagano's defense and his fire. I'm really going to enjoy Pep Hamilton's offense with Luck under center. But give credit where it's due, and Bill Polian deserves a lot for getting us where we are. In good times and bad. Great football mind. But his arrogance was his flaw. Is his flaw I might say.

Our best spell arguably came after Polian tried to trade Manning. That tells me all I need to know about Bill.

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I was at those games in Baltimore in the 70's, what do you want me to say , they were in Indy at that time ? Do you want me to say the Indy Colts lost to the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 1970's , when they were in Baltimore ? I'm not knocking that the Indy Colts have had bad luck against the Steelers also, but Baltimore's has been worse, by far.

How odd. Why on earth would I want you to say that? If you're still on your Quixotic quest to tell off "Indianapolis" fans you missed the target. And I was being nice to you, and essentially agreeing with you - while pointing out the irony (for the second time) of your complaining on a Colts forum in a manner which would suggest that you are oblivious to the fact that there might actually be Colts fans here.

 

You've made your unorthodox perspective regarding "city versus franchise" abundantly clear in your relentless posts on the topic. PLEASE don't feel that you need to do so again. My point was simply to describe the Colts history against the Steelers in it's entirety since - as someone who stopped rooting for them - you didn't appear to be aware of it. The 70's were just the tip of the iceberg, and the pain grows to the point that I both dream of the chance to beat them and dread the seeming inevitability of losing to them every year at playoff time. It appears to actually be something that we have in common, but I suspect that you aren't interested in things such as that.

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Our best spell arguably came after Polian tried to trade Manning. That tells me all I need to know about Bill.

 

Come on now. You know it was out of frustration from contract disputes, and personally Irsay should have never mentioned this. It was never a serious consideration. 

 

If I recall correctly you became a fan in 2004. So I assume the 2004 season made you a fan. So you wouldn't have been there for the off-season. If you think 2010 was stressful waiting for Peyton to get a contract you should have experience that one. 2010 was a cakewalk compared to that.

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You can't win in the playoffs if you can't win during the regular season to get to the playoffs.  Our issues in the playoffs was that our players didn't play like they did during the regular season to get there.  People don't like to say that and put the blame on the players but I remember the players not preforming well in the playoffs and that being why we lost that us not having talent.  That goes on the players not the GM. 

I remember the colts getting exposed in the playoffs vs superior rosters.....steelers, patriots, chargers.

You can't expect your offense to get a lead in the playoffs and have your pint sized defense be effective like it was in the regular season.....that is just a recipe for failure.

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To be perfectly honest with you, I'm not a big Bob Irsay fan , obviously. I don't have those same ill feelings for Jimmy, and I do give him and Polian credit for the good years in Indy following the drafting of Manning. That being said, I would be concerned as a Colt's fan with Irsay's revisionist history with Polian, his odd tweets, and even that strange picture he put up on his twitter account. As an NFL owner, he has an image to keep up as a leader in the Indianapolis community. I just hope he doesn't end up like the old man, or Jerry Jones. If he keeps with professional football people, he will be alright. We'll see how the new GM does long-term.

 

i am out of likes so i will clutter this thread with a like.

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quote name="Dustin" post="440236" timestamp="1363392146"]

Reggie Wayne, Edge James, Jeff Saturday, Robert Mathis, Dwight Freeney, Bob Sanders, Antoine Bethea. On that list I see 7 pro bowlers, 3-4 hall of famers, 1 DPOY, and 6 super bowl champions. Those were Polian moves. Seriously, you don't even know what your talking about. You should feel foolish.

I see maybe one HOF on that list

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I remember the colts getting exposed in the playoffs vs superior rosters.....steelers, patriots, chargers.

You can't expect your offense to get a lead in the playoffs and have your pint sized defense be effective like it was in the regular season.....that is just a recipe for failure.

I don't buy that because the Colts won their fair share of games against those teams during the regular season including beating the Chargers and Steelers during the regular season in two years that they lost to them during the postseason. 

 

If you look at the Colts playoff history during the Polian era the offense just didn't produce like they had during the regular season when they lost in the playoffs.

 

1999:  Lost to the Titans scored 16

2000:  Lost to Miami in OT they scored 17

2002:  Lost to the Jets scored 0

2003:  Lost to New England scored 14

2004:  Lost to New England scored 3

2005:  Lost to the Steelers scored 18

2007:  Lost to the Chargers scored 24

2008:  Lost to the Chargers in OT scored 17

2009:  Lost to the Saints scored 17

2010:  Lost to the Jets scored 16

 

Only once in a playoff loss under Polian did that high power offense score more than 20 points.  Go back and look at those Colts teams and see how many times they were held under 20 during the regular season those years.  Not very many including against some of those top teams they would lose to in the playoffs.  At the end of the day the players on the field did not play like they had during the regular season.  Taking Manning out of it for a second because in some of those games he played well and we still lost it was largely the other skill guys, Harrison, Edge, Clark, and Addai that were no were to be seen in the playoffs for the most part.  Wayne has been our one skill position player that normally showed up in the playoffs like he did during the regular season.  I don't think Manning is blameless in this either but if the guys around him don't play well it's hard for a QB to play well.  I also don't think Polian is blameless either.  I just don't think you can put it all on Polian or Manning for that matter.  There is a pretty clear pattern of our offensive weapons not playing like they did during the regular season.  At some point you have to put at least some of that on the players. 

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I was checking over these the other day, and agree with Bill on just about every player. I am intrigued why he left Greg Toler off of his list.

 

Not sure how many of you guys have insider for espn so I thought I would post parts of what polian said about the guys we signed. The article is dated march 11. Im not going to post every player but i will post the ones we signed and how many players are in each of his tiers. Here is the link http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9027405/2013-nfl-free-agency-bill-polian-ranks-top-free-agents-tier

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