Forgive my ignorance...(Toler)

[UKColt13]

but i havent really seen anything from Arizona for a while.

 

Is Toler a starter for us?

 

Can someone give me a quick report on him?

[Dan]

He's a starter for us by default, because he isn't Cassius Vaughn!!

 

Decent player though. Not great, from what I've seen he's about as good as Powers. Reasonably physical, reasonably quick... probably better as a nickelback but will play better outside than Butler. Injury problems are a worry...

[esmort]

He's a starter for us by default, because he isn't Cassius Vaughn!!

 

Decent player though. Not great, from what I've seen he's about as good as Powers. Reasonably physical, reasonably quick... probably better as a nickelback but will play better outside than Butler. Injury problems are a worry...

 

Come on ... "by default"? ...you can hide your disdain a little better than that!   If he stays healthy he is easily the best CB on our team other than Davis and much better than Powers.

[Dan]

Come on ... "by default"? ...you can hide your disdain a little better than that!   If he stays healthy he is easily the best CB on our team other than Davis and much better than Powers.

 

I don't think hiding my disdain for Cassius Vaughn is necessary, I reckon it's shared by quite a few people. 

[esmort]

I don't think hiding my disdain for Cassius Vaughn is necessary, I reckon it's shared by quite a few people. 

 

I was referring to your disdain for either Toler or FA in general ... your description of him was basically a backhanded compliment.

[Dan]

I was referring to your disdain for either Toler or FA in general ... your description of him was basically a backhanded compliment.

 

I didn't have disdain for Toler in my comment there, but it's nice to see you manufactured it anyway. I quite like Toler, I'm not going to pretend he's "much better" than Powers because from what we've seen as an oft-injured nickel in Arizona, he's not been noticeably better. Perhaps he will be for us, but I'm not going to pretend we've just signed Revis or Sherman. No disdain, but no undue optimism. He is easily the second best corner on our team, but that isn't exactly saying much.

[United We Stand]

Nice article.  it's like Grigs is playing moneball.  http://blogs.indystar.com/coltsinsider/2013/03/13/colts-cbs-butler-toler-were-among-the-nfls-best-in-2012-statistically-speaking/

[OldSchoolColt]

From what I have heard, he is more of the type of cornerback that our defense needs - such as being good in man coverage? "QBs completed a league-worst 41.5 percent of their passes when targeting a receiver covered by Toler (17-of-41). For comparison purposes, QBs had passer ratings of 105.0 versus departing corner Jerraud Powers, 97.0 versus Cassius Vaughn and 93.5 versus Vontae Davis " from above link.

[TKnight24]

Why does everyone keep thinking we overpaid people?

[Dustin]

Why does everyone keep thinking we overpaid people?

 

Because they don't know what they're talking about.

[smittywerb]

Why does everyone keep thinking we overpaid people?

 

 

Because they don't know who the person is.  So if it isn't a big name, we overpaid.

[TKnight24]

Because they don't know what they're talking about.

We still have like $20 million left over right??? That's a lot of money to bring in a few more people I believe

[Dustin]

We still have like $20 million left over right??? That's a lot of money to bring in a few more people I believe

 

Yep something like that. If we sign Ricky Jean Francois today I think that number goes down to around 13-15 million.

[TKnight24]

Because they don't know who the person is. So if it isn't a big name, we overpaid.

The only person I don't know that we've signed so far is the Walden guy from GB. Toler (barring injury) is worth what we're paying him

[TKnight24]

Yep something like that. If we sign Ricky Jean Francois today I think that number goes down to around 13-15 million.

That's still a lot of money!!! Which brings me back to my original point... why do people think we overpaid? Lol

$13 million (if used right) could bring in another 2-3 players

[esmort]

Because they don't know who the person is.  So if it isn't a big name, we overpaid.gettin

^^ Exactly a lot of people think that if we aren't getting someone whose name they hear on Sportscenter with highlights, than we are "missing out" or "getting scrubs"

[NCost12]

Well he can do this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz23zUQPaZ0

[smittywerb]

The thing is, IMO it goes like this:

 

Top tier FA's (Big names, wallace, etc.) $6+ million/year in salary.

 

2nd Tier FA's: $3-5 million/year

 

3rd & lower: 2$ million and lower.

 

Toler to me is a 2nd tier player.  He's a solid #2 cornerback.  $5 million a year for him is pretty good in my eyes.  Anything lower would have been a steal!

[House]

That's still a lot of money!!! Which brings me back to my original point... why do people think we overpaid? Lol

$13 million (if used right) could bring in another 2-3 players

Because one hysterical poster goes "OMG this isn't who I traded for and signed in Madden!!! WTH Grigson is NOOB!!!! Who is this guy?!?! Overpayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyed!"

Then that causes a chain reaction with all other posters who think similarly.

[TKnight24]

Because one hysterical poster goes "OMG this isn't who I traded for and signed in Madden!!! WTH Grigson is NOOB!!!! Who is this guy?!?! Overpayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyed!"

Then that causes a chain reaction with all other posters who think similarly.

I definitely read that as if someone was screaming it

[smittywerb]

Yep something like that. If we sign Ricky Jean Francois today I think that number goes down to around 13-15 million.

 

I hope we get RJF.  A line of Redding-RJF/Mckinney/Chap-Nevi/Moala sounds nice and fat to me lol

[House]

I definitely read that as if someone was screaming it

You would be correct lol. Because those who type like that 9/10 are screaming at their computers.

[TKnight24]

This doesn't have anything to do with Toler......... but why didn't anyone tell me that the Titans took Fokou from us??!!

[Balzer40]

Because they don't know who the person is.  So if it isn't a big name, we overpaid.

 

 

That's still a lot of money!!! Which brings me back to my original point... why do people think we overpaid? Lol

$13 million (if used right) could bring in another 2-3 players

 

 

^^ Exactly a lot of people think that if we aren't getting someone whose name they hear on Sportscenter with highlights, than we are "missing out" or "getting scrubs"

 

 

The thing is, IMO it goes like this:

 

Top tier FA's (Big names, wallace, etc.) $6+ million/year in salary.

 

2nd Tier FA's: $3-5 million/year

 

3rd & lower: 2$ million and lower.

 

Toler to me is a 2nd tier player.  He's a solid #2 cornerback.  $5 million a year for him is pretty good in my eyes.  Anything lower would have been a steal!

 

 

Because one hysterical poster goes "OMG this isn't who I traded for and signed in Madden!!! WTH Grigson is NOOB!!!! Who is this guy?!?! Overpayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyed!"

Then that causes a chain reaction with all other posters who think similarly.

 

 

 

I'm glad there are still a few rational posters here on the forum. After the last 2 days, I actually felt embarrassment from some of the asinine, asi-ten, asi-eleven, and asi-twelve posts that have been made here.

[esmort]

Because one hysterical poster goes "OMG this isn't who I traded for and signed in Madden!!! WTH Grigson is NOOB!!!! Who is this guy?!?! Overpayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyed!"

Then that causes a chain reaction with all other posters who think similarly.

^^^ Exactly ... too bad I am out of likes   :clap:

[Warhawk]

Yep something like that. If we sign Ricky Jean Francois today I think that number goes down to around 13-15 million.

 

7 million a year for RJF?

 

Seriously?

[pacolts56]

This doesn't have anything to do with Toler......... but why didn't anyone tell me that the Titans took Fokou from us??!!

TKnight.....just default your expectations that EVERY former Colts player will be signed by the Titans....until proven otherwise.

 

It usually works that way anyhow.

[Dustin]

7 million a year for RJF?

 

Seriously?

 

I was thinking more of 5 or 6, but left wiggle room.

[TKnight24]

TKnight.....just default your expectations that EVERY former Colts player will be signed by the Titans....until proven otherwise.

It usually works that way anyhow.

Ahh, okay

[UKColt13]

Yep something like that. If we sign Ricky Jean Francois today I think that number goes down to around 13-15 million.

and we'll need money to sign our draft picks, so we'd be down to maybe 9?

[CardiacColts]

I didn't have disdain for Toler in my comment there, but it's nice to see you manufactured it anyway. I quite like Toler, I'm not going to pretend he's "much better" than Powers because from what we've seen as an oft-injured nickel in Arizona, he's not been noticeably better. Perhaps he will be for us, but I'm not going to pretend we've just signed Revis or Sherman. No disdain, but no undue optimism. He is easily the second best corner on our team, but that isn't exactly saying much.

 

I have to agree with esmort. Toler is far superior to Powers in our system. He is a physical, tough man to man corner with prototypical size (6' nearly 200 Lbs). Maybe in an overall list of corners Powers and toler are similar, but in our man to man 2-4 scheme Toler is certainly an upgrade. 

[Dan]

I have to agree with esmort. Toler is far superior to Powers in our system. He is a physical, tough man to man corner with prototypical size (6' nearly 200 Lbs). Maybe in an overall list of corners Powers and toler are similar, but in our man to man 2-4 scheme Toler is certainly an upgrade. 

 

Fair enough, you think he's a better fit in our system than I do - I'm fully ready to be proven wrong, I'm not an expert talent evaluator - I took issue with esmort because he thought I was slagging him off, which I obviously wasn't. 

[Tark The Shark]

Toler is a good CB, not great, not a #1 type CB but a solid #2 CB.

 

I agree with most everyone in the thread about the overreaction of most everyone because we didn't grab big names.

 

Even though I think we have already had a pretty successful offseason so far. And we still have RJF in the building probably signing his contract sometime today.

 

I trust Grigson and his decisions and the fact that he knows what he is doing rather a lot of blind fans who don't know how a NFL front office works.

[CardiacColts]

Fair enough, you think he's a better fit in our system than I do - I'm fully ready to be proven wrong, I'm not an expert talent evaluator - I took issue with esmort because he thought I was slagging him off, which I obviously wasn't. 

Fair point. I may be lending a little more optimism to the whole process than I should, but hey I'm a fan. 

[Franklin County]

Toler is a clear cut UPGRADE over Powers. And Grigs is really making me happy   so far, and I am a grumpy old man!!!

[Balzer40]

I get the feeling that many didn't have any idea who Toler was. Thats understandable with him playing in the purgatory that is Arizona. Toler is a very high rated press coverage corner. He was higher rated and better than DRC, Cary williams, and Keenen Lewis who many wanted here. Toler was 54th on the list of top 100 free agents. Him and Vontae are going to make a very good corner combo. Add in Butler as our nickle guy and our secondary has improved dramatically.

[Kirie89]

We still have like $20 million left over right??? That's a lot of money to bring in a few more people I believe

 

 

Yep something like that. If we sign Ricky Jean Francois today I think that number goes down to around 13-15 million.

 

 

That's still a lot of money!!! Which brings me back to my original point... why do people think we overpaid? Lol

$13 million (if used right) could bring in another 2-3 players

 

 

I think a lot of people think there is more cap space left than it is.

 

The reports before Free Agency were of free cap space around 45 mill, and on Tuesday before Free Agency opened NFL Network showed the Colts with around 37 mill.

 

37 mill is probably taking into account the tag and tenders; Pat McAfee (tag), Josh Gordy (EFA tender), Jeff Linkenbach (RFA tender), Cassius Vaughn (RFA tender), Joe Reitz (EFA tender), Martin Tevaseu (EFA tender), you also have Fili Moalas 1 year extention. All this singings account for something about 7-8 mill.

 

In Free Agency the Colts have signed players for about 26-27 mill in yearly contracts. There is no way of knowing the exact cap hit before we get some more info on contract structure, but it can be used as a rough estimate.

 

The Colts also resigned Butler (have not seen any numbers on this contract yet).

 

When you take into consideration that the team needs 3-4 mill for the draft, there is only about 5-10 mill left for more Free Agency signings and backup for the season (trades, injury replacements, +++).

 

I am no expert, but at least there is not 20 mill left for Free Agency signings. If someone have more or better info or I have missed or misunderstood something feel free to set me straight.

[Balzer40]

I think a lot of people think there is more cap space left than it is.

 

The reports before Free Agency were of free cap space around 45 mill, and on Tuesday before Free Agency opened NFL Network showed the Colts with around 37 mill.

 

37 mill is probably taking into account the tag and tenders; Pat McAfee (tag), Josh Gordy (EFA tender), Jeff Linkenbach (RFA tender), Cassius Vaughn (RFA tender), Joe Reitz (EFA tender), Martin Tevaseu (EFA tender), you also have Fili Moalas 1 year extention. All this singings account for something about 7-8 mill.

 

In Free Agency the Colts have signed players for about 26-27 mill in yearly contracts. There is no way of knowing the exact cap hit before we get some more info on contract structure, but it can be used as a rough estimate.

 

The Colts also resigned Butler (have not seen any numbers on this contract yet).

 

When you take into consideration that the team needs 3-4 mill for the draft, there is only about 5-10 mill left for more Free Agency signings and backup for the season (trades, injury replacements, +++).

 

I am no expert, but at least there is not 20 mill left for Free Agency signings. If someone have more or better info or I have missed or misunderstood something feel free to set me straight.

 

 

 

I seen a report somewhere yesterday that said we had around 25 mil. left before we added Landry. I get the feeling that most of the contracts we've added are heavily back loaded and much of what really matters is guaranteed money, which will be spread out over the yrs. of the contract.The advantage of being back loaded is, we could release any of those guys in a couple of yrs. and not take a huge cap hit. We very easily could still have 20 mil left. Now we need to add in 5-6 mil for draft picks and leave some in the tank for in season moves that will need to be made. I can see us easily having 10-12 left to spend  and depending on how they structure any new contracts we may add, that could be spread on a couple more guy's without any problem.

[Kirie89]

I seen a report somewhere yesterday that said we had around 25 mil. left before we added Landry. I get the feeling that most of the contracts we've added are heavily back loaded and much of what really matters is guaranteed money, which will be spread out over the yrs. of the contract.The advantage of being back loaded is, we could release any of those guys in a couple of yrs. and not take a huge cap hit. We very easily could still have 20 mil left. Now we need to add in 5-6 mil for draft picks and leave some in the tank for in season moves that will need to be made. I can see us easily having 10-12 left to spend  and depending on how they structure any new contracts we may add, that could be spread on a couple more guy's without any problem.

 

 

Ok, I did not see that. The only number I have seen on cap hits from the new signings are Cherilus, who apparently is counting 7.5 mill against the cap in 2013.

[Balzer40]

Ok, I did not see that. The only number I have seen on cap hits from the new signings are Cherilus, who apparently is counting 7.5 mill against the cap in 2013.

 

 

I'm not going to guarantee that whoever came up with that 25 mil.$ number was correct, but I do think we must be back loading the contracts. If we add Francois today and maybe another guard at some point, then I'm going to be ecstatic with our offseason. It also won't surprise me to see some guy's released once get through all these signings and the draft. That could potentially free up more money later.