Something I'm Worried About With Peyton..

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Any doctors in the house know anything about spinal stenosis? It's what ended Cooper Manning's football dreams. Does having it in the family make Peyton at more of a risk?

Here's some info...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001477/

Please be clear - I have absolutely no information that Peyton has spinal stenosis. It's just something I'd worry about and wonder if they've ruled out yet or not.

[GoColts8818]

I heard an interview with a doctor today on Fox 59 they said what caused Manning to need surgery in the first place could be genatic but it was much more likely it was caused by the hits he's taken over the years in footbll.

[Guest BlueShoe]

Any doctors in the house know anything about spinal stenosis? It's what ended Cooper Manning's football dreams. Does having it in the family make Peyton at more of a risk?

Here's some info...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001477/

Please be clear - I have absolutely no information that Peyton has spinal stenosis. It's just something I'd worry about and wonder if they've ruled out yet or not.

I am not a doctor, but this is what I have my mind on right now too.

I believe that it might be in our best interest to sit Peyton out this year, if he needs it, because it is only one season and Peyton has a life after football. I think after Peyton misses his first game it will help everyone put things into perspective.

[Guest BlueShoe]

I heard an interview with a doctor today on Fox 59 they said what caused Manning to need surgery in the first place could be genatic but it was much more likely it was caused by the hits he's taken over the years in footbll.

I keep thinking back to a game a few years ago when he was hit several times on one play from several different angles. I was surprised he got up and finished the game. Also last year he was laying on his stomach for a while and he wasn't moving. He got up and finished the game. He is a warrior and I hope that we air on the side of caution if we need to here.

[StaticColt77]

It's completely different.

Peyton was screened for it year ago, and had no signs of it.

It isn't something genetic that's effected Peyton right now.

I really really wish he got this surgery the moment our season ended.

[GoColts8818]

I keep thinking back to a game a few years ago when he was hit several times on one play from several different angles. I was surprised he got up and finished the game. Also last year he was laying on his stomach for a while and he wasn't moving. He got up and finished the game. He is a warrior and I hope that we air on the side of caution if we need to here.

They will, the Colts aren't going to do something stupid with Manning and I doubt Manning is going to do something stupid with Manning.

[Mosath]

well, i am more concerned about if he will play, is anything sure? will he play the first game, I couldn't find any final words, does anyone know if he is good to go or not?

[Peyton and Eli fan]

well, i am more concerned about if he will play, is anything sure? will he play the first game, I couldn't find any final words, does anyone know if he is good to go or not?

He's listed as doubtful. It's very unlikely that he plays week 1.

[Guest BlueShoe]

well, i am more concerned about if he will play, is anything sure? will he play the first game, I couldn't find any final words, does anyone know if he is good to go or not?

It's not looking good. He was downgraded to doubtful today and it has been a long time since the Colts have actually played someone who was doubtful on the injury report. We could be without Peyton for quite some time. Let's just hope that he has a speedy recovery and that he doesn't try to get on the field until he is clear of any life long lingering effects of this injury.

[FireJimCaldwell]

His parents tested Peyton & Eli for it when it was discovered with Cooper. From everything I've read about it, it is not something that can develop later in life, and that since Peyton & Eli were cleared that is not, has not and will not be the issue.

[MAC]

Any doctors in the house know anything about spinal stenosis? It's what ended Cooper Manning's football dreams. Does having it in the family make Peyton at more of a risk?

Here's some info...

http://www.ncbi.nlm....lth/PMH0001477/

Please be clear - I have absolutely no information that Peyton has spinal stenosis. It's just something I'd worry about and wonder if they've ruled out yet or not.

I remember reading that Cooper had a spinal narrowing (or something like that) which made it dangerous for him to play contact sports. It doesn't sound the same as your link - more like a defect he had been born with. I'm sure that Peyton and Eli were checked at the time. I have genetic neck problems in that there is some arthritic decay - making it far more likely for a disk to rupture (which it did). It wouldn't be a great illness to play football with, but I specifically recall reading that Polian or Irsay stated months ago that this was NOT an issue with Peyton.

[Smonroe]

It's completely different.

Peyton was screened for it year ago, and had no signs of it.

It isn't something genetic that's effected Peyton right now.

I really really wish he got this surgery the moment our season ended.

Thanks. This needs to be bumped. Apparently it's being ignored.

It irritated me a while back when one of the media guys, on ESPN or the NFL Network didn't do his homework and referenced Cooper's condition. That's not responsible reporting. I can expect that in a blog but if you're considered an expert you should know better.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

His parents tested Peyton & Eli for it when it was discovered with Cooper. From everything I've read about it, it is not something that can develop later in life, and that since Peyton & Eli were cleared that is not, has not and will not be the issue.

The link I quoted says it can occur later in life. However, I suppose if that's the case then it's not the genetic connection and would be a coincidence if both peyton and cooper had it.

[Andy]

Im not too worried about that, if PM had it, he would have had it a long time ago like Cooper. Cooper could have been in the NFL, but that killed his chances. It would have been the same with PM.

[WoolMagnet]

well, i am more concerned about if he will play, is anything sure? will he play the first game, I couldn't find any final words, does anyone know if he is good to go or not?

Well, I'M more concerned with his short and long-term health. Sure, I'd like him to play, but football is not what is most important (in reality).

IMO, Peyton has given me , as a football fan and Colts fan, more than any one player has. And I've been a Colts fan since the early seventies.

His tenure as a Colts player is short, in the bigger scheme of things.

If he was your brother, father, or child, I'm sure your attitude would be different.

Whether the Colts paid him 90 million, or 90 dollars, it wouldn't change MY attitude.

NONE of these players should risk their long-term health for ANY amount of money, imo.

If he can overcome this, then great. If it is better for him to retire, then so be it. I'll be just as committed as a Colts fan and root for whoever is behind center.... including "The Painter".

We need to put this in perspective. It's HIS NECK, for heaven's sake. It is not something to be taken lightly.

Its not life and death, as we sometimes think, It's ONLY a game at the end of the day.

What is important is his health. If he could only do one or the other, I'd rather see him throwing passes to his kids in the backyard in the future than to risk long-term injury or paralysis just to give US short-term satisfaction.

Just MY opinion.

[MAC]

Well, I'M more concerned with his short and long-term health. Sure, I'd like him to play, but football is not what is most important (in reality).

IMO, Peyton has given me , as a football fan and Colts fan, more than any one player has. And I've been a Colts fan since the early seventies.

His tenure as a Colts player is short, in the bigger scheme of things.

If he was your brother, father, or child, I'm sure your attitude would be different.

Whether the Colts paid him 90 million, or 90 dollars, it wouldn't change MY attitude.

NONE of these players should risk their long-term health for ANY amount of money, imo.

If he can overcome this, then great. If it is better for him to retire, then so be it. I'll be just as committed as a Colts fan and root for whoever is behind center.... including "The Painter".

We need to put this in perspective. It's HIS NECK, for heaven's sake. It is not something to be taken lightly.

Its not life and death, as we sometimes think, It's ONLY a game at the end of the day.

What is important is his health. If he could only do one or the other, I'd rather see him throwing passes to his kids in the backyard in the future than to risk long-term injury or paralysis just to give US short-term satisfaction.

Just MY opinion.

Well said. Couldn't agree with you more. I often feel guilty reading about retired players suffering from football related illnesses. Football isn't all that different from Gladiators abusing each other for our entertainment. Kind of sick really. In a sense we seek signs from them (IE: Peyton or Collies confidence and desire to get back on the field) to give us comfort that it is the right thing to do. It relieves our guilt. The fact is, however, that if either one of them was my brother or friend I would be begging them to consider their long term health. As fans who "love our team" we should try to apply the same standard.

[FireJimCaldwell]

An article explaining how the issue happened with Cooper

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/11/07/Sports/The_other_Manning.shtml

Their father, meanwhile, remembers Cooper's intense dedication to excel. "He worked really hard at getting himself bigger and trying to be fast enough to be a college receiver," says Archie. "He probably had further to go than Peyton and Eli to become a college prospect. And I was so proud of his work ethic and accomplishing that. Then all of a sudden, it was taken away."

Cooper had started noticing his right pinky and ring finger going numb. Sometimes, the sensation felt more like pinpricks. Other times, the hand seemed to lose all its strength. Late in the season, Cooper dropped some passes uncharacteristically.

He kept the problem to himself. He was still so good, nobody suspected anything was wrong.

* * *

But there was something wrong, indeed.

At the start of basketball season, Cooper could tell his shots lacked the normal touch and control. He worked on dribbling and shooting left-handed and still averaged a dozen points on a team that won the state 2A championship. He remained mum about the problem, not wanting opponents to target him, but did confide in his father.

After the season, Archie took Cooper to a New Orleans surgeon, whose diagnosis was an injured ulnar nerve, a common ailment for football players that can cause numbness in the fingers and hand. Surgery was performed and Cooper worked through the pain after the cast was removed, excelling in a summer all-star football game. He left for Mississippi, hoping to get healthier as a freshman. But the pain and numbness persisted during August practices.

At the urging of the team doctor, Archie took his son to specialists at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., and the Baylor Medical Clinic. Cooper was tested by a half-dozen doctors through September. One of them from Baylor finally called Archie with the shocking news. Cooper suffered from a congenital condition called spinal stenosis, a narrowing of the spinal canal. The upshot: He needed surgery and had to quit football immediately. Furthermore, the doctor said, he was fortunate not to have been paralyzed in the years he played, due to all the hits to his upper body.

"It changes your whole world," he says. "I'd played organized football since fifth grade. And here I was at school, making friends, living in an athletic dorm, and all of a sudden, they tell you you can't do that anymore. I had to struggle with it for a while."

Then, he adds with a touch of his trademark humor, "Yeah, I guess I played my entire career a hit away from the wheelchair; thank God I was kind of a wuss and ran out of bounds so many times."

Peyton was devastated by the news but vowed in a heartfelt letter to his brother that they'd always be a team. Cooper underwent a three-hour operation during the summer of 1993. He awoke hardly able to move. His entire right leg was useless, his left leg numb. And when therapy started, he was unable to walk. But he worked tirelessly in rehab. He fell frequently, yet slowly regained his balance with a walker and cane.

Things are good for Cooper these days. He underwent another surgery, a cervical fusion, and his only restrictions are avoiding serious jolts. So he has given up physical sports such as skiing. "The most dangerous thing I do is drive a car," he says. All that lingers from his past problem: He can't shake hands quite as firmly as his dad taught him as a youngster. He keeps one small reminder of the old days in his wallet. It's his official dining pass from Ole Miss, showing Cooper as a head-shaven freshman with a well-muscled neck, looking ready for his first collegiate season. "It's from early August, about a month or so before I left," he says. "But I don't keep it for any big reason. It's for the bald effect. I always thought it was funny." Through it all, Cooper has retained his positive outlook. The upbeat kid always looking for a laugh refused to let his ordeal keep him down. He says he's not wired with a "why me?" personality and thinks maybe he was better equipped to deal with the setback than Peyton or Eli.

Another touching on Peyton & Eli being tested.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1030460/7/index.htm

Congenital, she learned, means you're born with it. Hereditary means you pass it down. Both Peyton and Eli tested negative for spinal stenosis. Only Cooper had to live out his life with the condition.

I'd rather him retire and get into TV or into Coaching or just sit back and enjoy his wife and twins than see him play with any more risk than the typical player of ending up in a wheel chair.

[nsurg]

I posted on this before and I do these surgeries.

I read the colts.com post, and it was confusing--he is now limited because of pain in his "back". To most this would mean lumbar, right? This would have exactly nothing to do with his cervical surgery, but maybe they mean his neck.

For what it's worth, I would rather he be limited by pain right now than by neurological symptoms (weakness, numbness, clumsiness) such as could be caused by spinal cord compression. Fixing the compression doesn't always fix the cord, it simply protects it from further injury and allows it some potential for recovery (which may be partial or nil).

While there may be some familial trends for cervical stenosis that can run in families, the people who are most likely to get in trouble are smokers (nope) and heavy laborers (yup). I would almost guarantee that manning had an MRI of his neck before being drafted 1 overall, as this is a common workup during the combine in Indy (again, see post). But that doesn't mean he couldn't have worsening things over time. This would have been obvious when he had his previous surgery, though.

Hard to say, but this is disappointing news, phrased in the most confusing manner.

EDIT: found an article referring to "nerve damage taking time to heal". I think the "back pain" is worthless for factual info. If it is a nerve root only, he has a better prognosis, but the healing would refer to strength in a particular muscle group. His incision is off to the right (minimally invasive surgery approaches from the side of the compression if the compression has a "sidedness"). If it is spinal cord, hard to tell.

second edit (sorry): ESPN says he has triceps weakness ("Manning's triceps strength has plateaued and he doesn't have the arm strength right now, sources told ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen.")

So he likely has a right C7 radiculopathy and less likely cord compression. Folks, it's really hard to sort this stuff out even with MRI, OR report, and a physical exam, so I can only speculate... the longer it is weak and the worse it was weak, the longer it takes to recover and the less complete the recovery. I think he will be back eventually, but my guess, sadly, is that he misses 5-6 games easily. Sorry.

[jvan1973]

I posted on this before and I do these surgeries.

I read the colts.com post, and it was confusing--he is now limited because of pain in his "back". To most this would mean lumbar, right? This would have exactly nothing to do with his cervical surgery, but maybe they mean his neck.

For what it's worth, I would rather he be limited by pain right now than by neurological symptoms (weakness, numbness, clumsiness) such as could be caused by spinal cord compression. Fixing the compression doesn't always fix the cord, it simply protects it from further injury and allows it some potential for recovery (which may be partial or nil).

While there may be some familial trends for cervical stenosis that can run in families, the people who are most likely to get in trouble are smokers (nope) and heavy laborers (yup). I would almost guarantee that manning had an MRI of his neck before being drafted 1 overall, as this is a common workup during the combine in Indy (again, see post). But that doesn't mean he couldn't have worsening things over time. This would have been obvious when he had his previous surgery, though.

Hard to say, but this is disappointing news, phrased in the most confusing manner.

EDIT: found an article referring to "nerve damage taking time to heal". I think the "back pain" is worthless for factual info. If it is a nerve root only, he has a better prognosis, but the healing would refer to strength in a particular muscle group. His incision is off to the right (minimally invasive surgery approaches from the side of the compression if the compression has a "sidedness"). If it is spinal cord, hard to tell.

second edit (sorry): ESPN says he has triceps weakness ("Manning's triceps strength has plateaued and he doesn't have the arm strength right now, sources told ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen.")

So he likely has a right C7 radiculopathy and less likely cord compression. Folks, it's really hard to sort this stuff out even with MRI, OR report, and a physical exam, so I can only speculate... the longer it is weak and the worse it was weak, the longer it takes to recover and the less complete the recovery. I think he will be back eventually, but my guess, sadly, is that he misses 5-6 games easily. Sorry.

What he said... lol

[bayone]

Any doctors in the house know anything about spinal stenosis? It's what ended Cooper Manning's football dreams. Does having it in the family make Peyton at more of a risk?

Here's some info...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001477/

Please be clear - I have absolutely no information that Peyton has spinal stenosis. It's just something I'd worry about and wonder if they've ruled out yet or not.

It's completely different.

Peyton was screened for it year ago, and had no signs of it.

It isn't something genetic that's effected Peyton right now.

I really really wish he got this surgery the moment our season ended.

I am a disabled Dr due to complications INFECTION ) post op from severe spinal steno-sis that was over 5 neck, Cervical vertebrae though worse at a specific level, that is 1 area worse than the others, in fact the same c-7 noted in post Quote immediately above this , the quote by " nsurg ", & Now i principally haad more general weakeness, though right side was much worse , MRI was TOTALY NEGATIVE,even taken to a medical conference with best in the world to read, Finally a Myelogram , that is a dye injected into the spinal canal, coupled with a CAT scan revealed , after a months of diagnostic testing process ( & i was still doing ankle reconstruction at this time ) it was determined that i should have been a quadriplegic as i had bone basically growing though the spinal cord, , This was 1988, diagnostic procedures are obviously far superior now

In General i completely agree with his ( the statements by " nsurg " ) assessment I was a unigue case

As soon as my brother , a radiologist saw my MRI pre op he immediately had his own neck checked for the same,

Yes It Can Be Genetic, However it doesn't have to be

If as noted Peyton was screened for it, he may have a slight issue that can worsen from the hits but anyone even without a predisposition to it, can from football hits develop it

In fact no one else in my family history to my knowledge has it, I Quite possibly got it as when in high school , I as a foolish kid played tackle Vs bigger small school college teams without equipment, u know Sunday games with friends. Now I could tackle anyone but at only 5' 4" I know at times I tackled via the legs and my neck got chopped around at times, As this was at a young age it probably started the process that led to bony infringement upon my spinal cord and the resulting stenosis

Again I repeat

Yes It Can Be Genetic, However it doesn't have to be, But a genetic predisposition to it coupled with the football hits Peyton has taken can lead to it, or the hits alone

As peyton problem involves 1 side I suspect it is the hits causing an issue couple with any predisposition he MAY, BUT NOT Necessarily have inheritted

BTW I never had pain, symptoms were going from perfect weight , doing aerobics 4 x a week to severe limp right side , general weakness of all extremities, gaining a good 75 to 90 pounds over the course of time took to diagnose and being basically a beached whale in bed save for my medical , surgical and post op duties etc, as said I was a unique case

+++ For the record " nsurg " I had an open ( again 1988 ) laminectomy from c3 to c7 & foraminotomies at c8, t1, and was walking great till the infection set in

[PeytonManningJr]

Any doctors in the house know anything about spinal stenosis? It's what ended Cooper Manning's football dreams. Does having it in the family make Peyton at more of a risk?

Here's some info...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001477/

Please be clear - I have absolutely no information that Peyton has spinal stenosis. It's just something I'd worry about and wonder if they've ruled out yet or not.

I interned for a pain management doctor over the summer and we saw patients with Peyton's exact symptoms. Pain caused by a nerve in the neck that innervates the spine and arm, causing back pain and arm weakness. The procedure that the doctor's used to ease the pain and increase mobility is called an Epidural Steroid Injection (ESI) and also, a Radiofrequency Thermocoagulation (RFTC). Results are realized within 48 hours. If it is at all possible, if you have any communication line to Peyton, please inform him of this procedure and have him find a pain management doctor in Indianapolis who can help him. I don't want to see his starting streak end and I don't want to say that I didn't try to prevent it from happening.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I interned for a pain management doctor over the summer and we saw patients with Peyton's exact symptoms. Pain caused by a nerve in the neck that innervates the spine and arm, causing back pain and arm weakness. The procedure that the doctor's used to ease the pain and increase mobility is called an Epidural Steroid Injection (ESI) and also, a Radiofrequency Thermocoagulation (RFTC). Results are realized within 48 hours. If it is at all possible, if you have any communication line to Peyton, please inform him of this procedure and have him find a pain management doctor in Indianapolis who can help him. I don't want to see his starting streak end and I don't want to say that I didn't try to prevent it from happening.

No offense but if it were that simple, that process would have already happened.

But go for it..

Chris.Polian@colts.nfl.net

[bayone]

I interned for a pain management doctor over the summer and we saw patients with Peyton's exact symptoms. Pain caused by a nerve in the neck that innervates the spine and arm, causing back pain and arm weakness. The procedure that the doctor's used to ease the pain and increase mobility is called an Epidural Steroid Injection (ESI) and also, a Radiofrequency Thermocoagulation (RFTC). Results are realized within 48 hours. If it is at all possible, if you have any communication line to Peyton, please inform him of this procedure and have him find a pain management doctor in Indianapolis who can help him. I don't want to see his starting streak end and I don't want to say that I didn't try to prevent it from happening.

u may have tried something like that to begin with and sure he consulted the best, but its now chronic, not acute, and scar tissue present added problems

I had an EIS after the myelogram with cat scan as couldnt stand up from the inflammation it caused, totally relieved me quite fast but did nothing for underlying problem

My full surgey described above , previous page i believe , came a weak later

I also currently get on occasion R & L intrafecet injections of steroids for lower back pain ( resulting from being rear ended by delivery trucks while standing still twice in a 4 day period & being unbuckled as heard them coming so went to protect mom, ) over a multiple joint area, works but only temporarily

[Guest BlueShoe]

I posted on this before and I do these surgeries.

I read the colts.com post, and it was confusing--he is now limited because of pain in his "back". To most this would mean lumbar, right? This would have exactly nothing to do with his cervical surgery, but maybe they mean his neck.

For what it's worth, I would rather he be limited by pain right now than by neurological symptoms (weakness, numbness, clumsiness) such as could be caused by spinal cord compression. Fixing the compression doesn't always fix the cord, it simply protects it from further injury and allows it some potential for recovery (which may be partial or nil).

While there may be some familial trends for cervical stenosis that can run in families, the people who are most likely to get in trouble are smokers (nope) and heavy laborers (yup). I would almost guarantee that manning had an MRI of his neck before being drafted 1 overall, as this is a common workup during the combine in Indy (again, see post). But that doesn't mean he couldn't have worsening things over time. This would have been obvious when he had his previous surgery, though.

Hard to say, but this is disappointing news, phrased in the most confusing manner.

EDIT: found an article referring to "nerve damage taking time to heal". I think the "back pain" is worthless for factual info. If it is a nerve root only, he has a better prognosis, but the healing would refer to strength in a particular muscle group. His incision is off to the right (minimally invasive surgery approaches from the side of the compression if the compression has a "sidedness"). If it is spinal cord, hard to tell.

second edit (sorry): ESPN says he has triceps weakness ("Manning's triceps strength has plateaued and he doesn't have the arm strength right now, sources told ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen.")

So he likely has a right C7 radiculopathy and less likely cord compression. Folks, it's really hard to sort this stuff out even with MRI, OR report, and a physical exam, so I can only speculate... the longer it is weak and the worse it was weak, the longer it takes to recover and the less complete the recovery. I think he will be back eventually, but my guess, sadly, is that he misses 5-6 games easily. Sorry.

Thanks a lot for posting this.

It sucks, but ever since we listed him as doubtful I have had this gut feeling that we are in trouble this year and possibly beyond. As a Colts fan, I want to see him come back and win a few more Super Bowls, but as someone who had the opportunity to sit down with him at St Elmos and just talk about life, I want him to just be able to live a complete life and enjoy his kids growing up. He has given me, as a Colts fan, more than I could ever ask of anyone. The man has played through enourmous amounts of pain in his career, including several games with a broken jaw in 2001. There is no doubting his toughness and I am grateful for everything he has given us.

I am preparing for our Colts to be without Peyton this entire year if that is what happens. I hope he makes a great recovery and gets back soon. If not then he owes us nothing and he has nothing more to prove, in my opinion.

[geinsteder]

ESI are usually at the beginning of treatment. If he had surgery it's past just getting a steroid injection. Not to say having a occasional one might give him some short term relief. I'm worried that he will not be back to his norm so he can play at the game at his level

[nsurg]

I interned for a pain management doctor over the summer and we saw patients with Peyton's exact symptoms. Pain caused by a nerve in the neck that innervates the spine and arm, causing back pain and arm weakness. The procedure that the doctor's used to ease the pain and increase mobility is called an Epidural Steroid Injection (ESI) and also, a Radiofrequency Thermocoagulation (RFTC). Results are realized within 48 hours. If it is at all possible, if you have any communication line to Peyton, please inform him of this procedure and have him find a pain management doctor in Indianapolis who can help him. I don't want to see his starting streak end and I don't want to say that I didn't try to prevent it from happening.

Unfortunately pain MDs will have a nearly zero role in helping with these symptoms. Epidural steroids are fine for brief relief of nerve PAIN only. Most patients have 2-4 weeks of less pain, then it recurs--though some have zero relief and some have complete relief where presumably the inflammation never recurs, though this is the least common. More importantly, it is a waste of time for patients experiencing significant weakness and should not have been tried for Peyton.

Facet injections and facet rhizotomies (which you refer to as RFTC) is a stopgap for arthritis pain--patients are first tried with steroids injected into the facets (not the cervical nerves, which was peyton's problem). If brief pain relief occurrs, multiple joints are "burned" with radiofrequency "heat" (only money-grubbing * try lasers) to try to temporarly kill the microscopic joint nerves (not the larger cervical nerves going into the arm). The joints invariably regenerate these nerves and the pain returns in a few weeks to months. This is done for arthritis pain, which I sincerely doubt would limit a younger person like manning, even with the wear and tear of football.

In short, there's really nothing a pain MD can offer manning, as the key element to him not playing is almost guaranteed to be triceps weakness. In my experience, I have had some patients recover pain and never recover weakness, but I'd sure like to hope his weakness recovers! Typically I would expect "significant" weakness that had been present for about 1 month to recover by about 3 months... but I have never seen a report quantifying his weakness, nor the duration of symptoms. I'm sure the team neurosurgeons (who are excellent) are all over this. Of additional importance, if he has so far had zero strength improvement we could be a bit disappointed for long-term prognosis. If he has had some mild improvement, however, that pace may continue for a while and then plateau.

Even if a thoughtful clinician had all the info (preop symptoms and duration, details of surgery, benefit of objective exams postop) the recovery is still hard to predict.

I suggest that we take on a new approach to being a colts fan this year (befriend a long-term bengals fan if you need help with this): cherish every win, and making the playoffs equates to a superbowl win. Focus on the running game and rookie development. Drink more beer and play fantasy football to find a way to root for the raiders and lions. Sorry for the pessimism. That being said, I'd still draft manning for fantasy teams considering he may (MAY) have a huge 2nd half of the year and will go late in a draft? We all knew we were spoiled during the regular season as colts fans!

[nsurg]

On an unrelated note, I'd like to add that posting restrictions on the board, considering the awkward transition of members of the old forum, is absurd. My account never transitioned to the new board, and even my new account here mysteriously died before this one stuck. Mods take note. So this means I can make 1 more post before sept 7th!!! Sounds as rational as caldwell calling timeouts, no?

[GoColts8818]

On an unrelated note, I'd like to add that posting restrictions on the board, considering the awkward transition of members of the old forum, is absurd. My account never transitioned to the new board, and even my new account here mysteriously died before this one stuck. Mods take note. So this means I can make 1 more post before sept 7th!!! Sounds as rational as caldwell calling timeouts, no?

If you saw all the trolls we've had that caused this rule to be put in place you wouldn't be saying that.

[nsurg]

If you saw all the trolls we've had that caused this rule to be put in place you wouldn't be saying that.

Valid point. I reluctantly agree. And mostly I just want to waste my last post for a while--feels like a reckless, exciting thing to do. Like drafting jamarcus. Now I'm off for some purple drank...

[Peytongirl]

Indeed, GoColts. The new rule is not to punish old members who return, but to screen new members who MIGHT be here simply to cause trouble.

As a older member, I am sure you know exactly what we mean. ;)

[NDKoltz]

Well I have held my thoughts on this for quite a while, but since it looks like it is actually going to cost the Colts some games, I will say the next doctor/specialist he seesshould be DR John Sarno at NYU (Ivy League educated and not a quack). He has CURED 10s of thousands of patients (virtually everyone that comes into his office). I probably would not have said anything, but when they said "a new injury to his lower back", I am more sure than ever. I feel most of you will dismiss this, but I am pain free for over 15 years because of his work. He also has helped many famous people.

My link

[ruksak]

Indeed, GoColts. The new rule is not to punish old members who return, but to screen new members who MIGHT be here simply to cause trouble.

As a older member, I am sure you know exactly what we mean. ;)

Please take this as constructive; I almost didn't bother coming here because of the erratic moves. I can imagine that many of our old members may run into this rule and throw their hands in the air and never come back. The Colts forums have been nothing short of a frustration, and we now have this new rule to create even more frustration. I like the rule, but not the utter lack of effort to reform old members. The admins use IP's and E-Mail addy's to confirm previously banned members that return with new names. Could we not use this same technique to identify solid, reputable veteran members from the old boards and waive the waiting period?

Give 'em a break. New members should have to wait due to the issues involved. But many new members are only new members because this "organization" has wiped out our old forums, with a seemingly bizarre lack of aforesight, three times in the last year. It is not their fault that they were stripped of their rank and, by default, relegated to "new" status again and again. By this logic they were, in fact, punished for the forums administrations faulty movements and failed ideas.

If I had run into this rule when I came back, especially at the foothill of the start of the season, I would have proclaimed this forum as bunk and moved on. Alot of effort was exerted to jack things up, lets show some effort to make things right and promote any returning vouched members. Expedite the process with some degree of empathy.

With all due respect....ruksak

[chrisfarley]

he's not playing Sunday. I think it's pretty clear by now. I can't believe ppl are still asking the question.