MNF: Packers at Seahawks [Merge]

[stat2883]

That's why I said from the start I would have gone with the call on the field whichever way it was.

yeah I've been saying similar in that there is no black and white evidence either way (not enough to overturn ruling on field regardless of what was ruled) - my gut reaction when I saw it was interception and I haven't seen anything compelling enough to change my mind

[chadedward]

These games just get more and more exciting.

[Yehoodi]

Agree to disagree

Fair enough Vance87, i know you are nere the end of your discussion on this matter . ..

I just want to make one point regarding your control points . .. I think that part of the rule needs to put into context and the control only happens when you have two feet on the ground . .. so if a DB has control of the ball and then the WR comes in and gets the ball then the later can get the sim, catch . . . also Tate did have a hand on the onll and they both leap, and further as the ball went out of view, its tough to see if Jennins had control of teh ball as he feel . . .

The rule is clear that having the ball is the air is nothing and subordinate to the possession portion of the rule . . .

I know it frstrating. . . .

[southwest1]

These games just get more and more exciting.

Not to cross pollinate sports or mix them, but a lack of referee professionalism on the field reminds me of MLB Commissioner Bud Selig talking about the excitement of human error, mistakes missed by the human eye, and the nature of instant reply. Yes, technology can slow down plays angle by angle, frame by frame, and second by second, but if referees regardless of the sport are not equipped to do their job correctly; the best technology on the planet won't matter. Does human error=fan excitement=fraudulent and stolen wins too?

http://youtu.be/6UXmYOIOgRE

[chadedward]

It was a bad call but it was still nice to see the Packers lose. The Seattle D was great in the first half.

[southwest1]

Look, I'm not trying to stir the pot here. I just want two common denominators in my NFL games: consistency and fairness. Yes, luck plays a role as does how the ball ultimately bounces. The Ravens missed that kick and the Packers intercepted that ball. This game is already a game of inches anyway why make it even harder by human incompetence. Get the call right otherwise a domino effect will grab hold of the NFL and never let go.

Belicheck and Brady deserved another shot at winning in overtime. Fairness means everything to mean regardless of the team. Everyone knows GB's Jennings intercepted that ball. Who are we kidding? Reputations take decades to develop and minutes to unravel. Integrity of the NFL shield...Are they just cute little words to articulate at opening day of the NFL season or do these words cut deeper and carry a greater, nobler significance?

This astounding disrespect to professionalism really infuriates me personally. I like to view myself as a man of integrity. It's not lip service to me. Either you respect fairness or you don't. The Patriots were robbed and so were the Packers in my estimation. People can believe I'm nuts. That's fine, but I stand by my original position.

[ruksak]

Not to cross pollinate sports or mix them, but a lack of referee professionalism on the field reminds me of MLB Commissioner Bud Selig talking about the excitement of human error, mistakes missed by the human eye, and the nature of instant reply. Yes, technology can slow down plays angle by angle, frame by frame, and second by second, but if referees regardless of the sport are not equipped to do their job correctly; the best technology on the planet won't matter. Does human error=fan excitement=fraudulent and stolen wins too?

http://youtu.be/6UXmYOIOgRE

Very interesting angle.

I remember some stalwart old timers belching out the same kind of line when replay was being first implemented. Personally, I walk away feeling 'dirty' when my team benefits directly from egregious officiating. There's a sentiment carried that the whole fanbase of the beneficiary team ( of bad calls) are crooked. Just like I'm reading many disgusting things about the Seattle fans, somehow the fans carry the scarlet letter by-proxy.

I'd like to touch on the close nature of so many games and how we're seeing great teams lose to what we thought were mediocre teams. Not that I'm Jimmy the Greek, but in our game pick thread I think I guessed 2 correctly, which is by far the worst I've ever done. Something stinks so far this year, and the odor appears to be coming from those in zebra stripes.

I truly believe that the ebb and flow of the games have been tragically flawed so far, causing many close games (3 OT games this weekend) and "exciting" endings. I doubt this is what the competition committee had in mind.

What I'm saying is; The scab-refs have permanently altered the course of the 2012 season in a drastic, profound manner. Even if they're replaced immediately, much damage has been done.

[Gramz]

Very interesting angle.

I remember some stalwart old timers belching out the same kind of line when replay was being first implemented. Personally, I walk away feeling 'dirty' when my team benefits directly from egregious officiating. There's a sentiment carried that the whole fanbase of the beneficiary team ( of bad calls) are crooked. Just like I'm reading many disgusting things about the Seattle fans, somehow the fans carry the scarlet letter by-proxy.

I'd like to touch on the close nature of so many games and how we're seeing great teams lose to what we thought were mediocre teams. Not that I'm Jimmy the Greek, but in our game pick thread I think I guessed 2 correctly, which is by far the worst I've ever done. Something stinks so far this year, and the odor appears to be coming from those in zebra stripes.

I truly believe that the ebb and flow of the games have been tragically flawed so far, causing many close games (3 OT games this weekend) and "exciting" endings. I doubt this is what the competition committee had in mind.

What I'm saying is; The scab-refs have permanently altered the course of the 2012 season in a drastic, profound manner. Even if they're replaced immediately, much damage has been done.

I agree wholeheartedly, unfortunately.

[Gramz]

HAD to share..... ;)

[southwest1]

I often wonder NFL coaches always say "forget the loss and move onto the next game," but can players really erase a stolen game when they work so hard all week to flawlessly execute a play only to lose yardage, get a penalty, and shake their head in disbelief. A DB can defend a play perfectly and still get called for pass interference. What qualifies as pass interference now anyway? It reminds back several years ago when referees called "roughing the passer" so much that DE's and LB's were afraid to even graze QB's anymore.

How does a player hit the reset button after a stolen game anyway? How do you pay a fine to the league office that technically was a clean, textbook sack or tackle? Say what you want about the regular zebras, but at least teams knew their overall flag tendencies and they let players play.

In law, statues remain the same. In archives, preservation strategies to reduce decay remain the same. In law enforcement, if you exceed the speed limit, you're getting a ticket. Where is the consistency and reliability with replacement referees?

[ruksak]

HAD to share..... ;)

What if two opponents take simultaneous possession of the guy who caught the ball?

[Vance]

What if two opponents take simultaneous possession of the guy who caught the ball?

Then the Yankees win.

[Fx Stryker]

Then the Yankees win.

I'd hate to see what needs to happen for the Cubs to win.

[House]

I'd hate to see what needs to happen for the Cubs to win.

That requires 3 ducks, a wiffle ball, 7 hard broiled eggs, and 5 replacement refs.........

[southwest1]

That requires 3 ducks, a wiffle ball, 7 hard broiled eggs, and 5 replacement refs.........

To quote Stephen A. Smith from ESPN's "First Take,""If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck; it ain’t a bleeping mongoose.” It's a replacement referee man...

[ColtsBlueFL]

I hear ya . . . and yes this very likey falls into the catagory of what might in really happened is different that what the refs can rule on . . . alas, the ball when out of sight, and its say 70% chance that if we were able to have a clear view of what actually happened at the moment Jennings was down, Jennings might of had sole possession when he hit the ground . . . but we can't say this . . . this falls under teh same catagory as the scrums I mentioned (and the Pierre Woods recovery which likely costs us a 19-0 season, so I have been there before with reality versus refs decision) and the person who truly had possession is not the one that the refs can make the ruling on. . .

Your argument seems good on the surface, but it is diddly poo (thanks Mora!) Since this is a catch in the end zone, it has to follow all the other rules for catches in the end zone. The big one is that possession must be maintained all the way thorough out the catch completely to the end. The twitter still frame shows that the receiver did not. many other TD's were lost because receiver appeared to have possession almost all the way through, but then lost it. And, lost the TD as well. Doesn't matter to me whether or not lost possession is to dropping it on the turf a split second too early, or the defender taking possession from you as you are hitting the ground. All the way through rule for catch in the end zone isn't deemed null here, nor is it on any other catch. full possession all the way through. Totally bogus call, and NFL knows it. The had to wait that one out until the scrum they were having as they came down to the ground was completed. It was clearly in Jennings control, not Tate. This is not going to be the only time they don't have to enforce the catch all the way through the process. I don't accept it. And league never said it was a catch, they justr weren't going to denounce and reverse the call. But by rule noted above, the should have.

NFL has made a travesty of their maintain possession all the way through the catch 'rule' too. They've botched it at every turn now, including not calling the Blatant (and not incidental) Pass Interference call. Bad, bad, bad.

[southwest1]

What if two opponents take simultaneous possession of the guy who caught the ball?

They both get "Two Ticket's To Paradise" AKA a free all expenses paid trip to Hawaii and the Pro Bowl just ask 80's and 90's singer Eddie Money.

http://youtu.be/iG0t57PUTaM

[ruksak]

They both get "Two Ticket's To Paradise" AKA a free all expenses trip to Hawaii and the Pro Bowl just ask 80's and 90's singer Eddie Money.

http://youtu.be/iG0t57PUTaM

Is it just me or did Eddie sound a bit 'down-syndrome-ish' in that ad? The first time I saw it I thought they were overtly insulting Eddie Money until I realized that was, in fact, Eddie Money.

"I dot Twho Twickets to Pawadize"

PS: Please don't anyone think I'm making fun of down-syndrome. Just making an observation.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Ha, the Ref that called time out preparing to signal interception and touchback was an Arena and Big 12 ref. Ref that called touchdown was just a H.S. and some Junior College ref. Pfffft.

[southwest1]

The more I think about replacement referees; the more I realize ruksak is exactly right. "The scab-refs have permanently altered the course of the 2012 season in a drastic, profound manner. Even if they're replaced immediately, much damage has been done." Bravo ruksak.

It's like roasting marshmallows after your house has burned to the ground and raving to the firefighters how delicious the melted gooiness tastes to all the firemen around you.

So much for a festive pep rally atmosphere.

[the cardinal]

I don't see this call as being as bad as some are trying to make it out to be.

The real problem of this situation is the defense. Why on earth are you trying to make a catch? Knock it down, when it hits the ground, end of play, you either take possession (it was 4th down so the next down is yours) or the game ends with no time on the clock. There was no need for Jennings to bring that ball in... NONE. Knock it down, throw it out, do something so possession can clearly be established as nill. Coming down with it while having Tate's arm inside your grasp, IMO, leaves a very difficult decision to be made.

Knocking it down doesn't always work though. There have been several times where the DB knocks it down... right into a receivers arms. Receivers troll around near the scrum hoping for a deflection off a batted down ball. Gronk said he was doing just that when he nearly caught that hail mary in the Super Bowl.

Ex:

[southwest1]

Is it just me or did Eddie sound a bit 'down-syndrome-ish' in that ad? The first time I saw it I thought they were overtly insulting Eddie Money until I realized that was, in fact, Eddie Money.

"I dot Twho Twickets to Pawadize"

PS: Please don't anyone think I'm making fun of down-syndrome. Just making an observation.

I get what your saying completely ruksak and no I'm not offended at all. Eddie Money probably has alimony and child support payments to make since he divorced his wife and this Geico ad was a way to generate some quick, easy money for Mr. Money himself.

Yeah, I thought it was an impersonator too at first glance and then I realized OMG that is actually Eddie Money too. Very bizarre indeed.

[ruksak]

Knocking it down doesn't always work though. There have been several times where the DB knocks it down... right into a receivers arms. Receivers troll around near the scrum hoping for a deflection off a batted down ball. Gronk said he was doing just that when he nearly caught that hail mary in the Super Bowl.

Ex:

I agree 100%.

The media keeps saying this and it's wrong....it's a flawed concept to insist that playing volleyball with a live football is in any way intelligent. I cannot remember the game or who played in it, but a few years ago this same thing happened wherein the defender batted the pass right into the waiting receivers arms.

If Jennings had batted the ball down, where do people think it would go? Right into Tate's arms. Maybe then he would actually have caught it.

Knocking the ball down is foolish and anyone whom actually thinks this is the best policy is in err. You cannot control the fate of the ball by smacking it around, as seen in the gif provided by cardinal. if you can grab it and throw it out of bounds....sure do that. But don't just whop it and think the play's over.

[southwest1]

Knocking it down doesn't always work though. There have been several times where the DB knocks it down... right into a receivers arms. Receivers troll around near the scrum hoping for a deflection off a batted down ball. Gronk said he was doing just that when he nearly caught that hail mary in the Super Bowl.

Ex:

A simple, but powerfully valid point Cardinal. Remember, how the Jaguars won a game by catching an attempted knocked down pass in the endzone several years ago? I wish I could remember their opponent and the exact year it took place. I'll bet Andy246 knows. David Garrard was still the Jags starting QB in Jacksonville [2004-2010]. I do remember that much. I ran out of likes again. Major bummer.

[Vltrophy1]

TJ Lang said in a news article that the Packers are talking about different measures to take. Such as getting the QB to take a knee every down until this ends. IF that were to happen I'd love to see the owners faces & be a fly on the walls in the locker rooms.

[Vltrophy1]

yeah I've been saying similar in that there is no black and white evidence either way (not enough to overturn ruling on field regardless of what was ruled) - my gut reaction when I saw it was interception and I haven't seen anything compelling enough to change my mind

did u notice that the 1 time the officials need to have a conference to get the call right they don't confer. I heard the ref went to look at the play which he's not supposed to do until the the call is confirmed.

[Gramz]

TJ Lang said in a news article that the Packers are talking about different measures to take. Such as getting the QB to take a knee every down until this ends. IF that were to happen I'd love to see the owners faces & be a fly on the walls in the locker rooms.

talk about exciting games to watch can you even imagine... the excitement

[the cardinal]

I agree 100%.

The media keeps saying this and it's wrong....it's a flawed concept to insist that playing volleyball with a live football is in any way intelligent. I cannot remember the game or who played in it, but a few years ago this same thing happened wherein the defender batted the pass right into the waiting receivers arms.

If Jennings had batted the ball down, where do people think it would go? Right into Tate's arms. Maybe then he would actually have caught it.

Knocking the ball down is foolish and anyone whom actually thinks this is the best policy is in err. You cannot control the fate of the ball by smacking it around, as seen in the gif provided by cardinal. if you can grab it and throw it out of bounds....sure do that. But don't just whop it and think the play's over.

A simple, but powerfully valid point Cardinal. Remember, how the Jaguars won a game by catching an attempted knocked down pass in the endzone several years ago? I wish I could remember their opponent and the exact year it took place. I'll bet Andy246 knows. I ran out of likes again. Major bummer.

Exactly. I was listening to Grady and Big Joe (well just Joe really) yell about this for 10 minutes straight... How many times have we seen "just bat it down" backfire or very nearly backfire?

Here's that Jags clip SW1:

[ruksak]

Exactly. I was listening to Grady and Big Joe (well just Joe really) yell about this for 10 minutes straight... How many times have we seen "just bat it down" backfire or very nearly backfire?

Here's that Jags clip SW1:

Booyah!

Yeah, that's exactly what I was trying to remember. I've seen more successful hail marys completed off of bat-downs than without. The idea is horridly flawed and anyone whom disagrees needs to explain the above video, as well as the one above in regard to the Tenn/Det game......as well explain how the defenders could have prevented a reception in these cases. Go ahead, try and explain it without sounding like a clown.

[ruksak]

did u notice that the 1 time the officials need to have a conference to get the call right they don't confer. I heard the ref went to look at the play which he's not supposed to do until the the call is confirmed.

It was explained by Gerry Austin (retired NFL officiating veteran) that if two officials disagree and/or make conflicting calls, they are supposed to confer with the "white hat" (Head Referee) and allow him to weigh the opinion/evidence. They did not do this Monday night.

[southwest1]

Exactly. I was listening to Grady and Big Joe (well just Joe really) yell about this for 10 minutes straight... How many times have we seen "just bat it down" backfire or very nearly backfire?

Here's that Jags clip SW1:

Wow, cardinal you are exceptionally good my friend. You're making ruksak and I look like football geniuses. Thank you. Nice!!!

[southwest1]

It was explained by Gerry Austin (retired NFL officiating veteran) that if two officials disagree and/or make conflicting calls, they are supposed to confer with the "white hat" (Head Referee) and allow him to weigh the opinion/evidence. They did not do this Monday night.

I can't help it. All my friends on this thread are making fantastic points tonight and ruksak is no exception here either. Talk it out amongst the "white hat"/auxiliary zebras and get the call right. The only time "white" works alone is when the Vatican in Rome selects a new Pope for the Catholic Church with white smoke. Just a hint of religious humor.

[Vance]

A simple, but powerfully valid point Cardinal. Remember, how the Jaguars won a game by catching an attempted knocked down pass in the endzone several years ago? I wish I could remember their opponent and the exact year it took place. I'll bet Andy246 knows. David Garrard was still the Jags starting QB in Jacksonville [2004-2010]. I do remember that much. I ran out of likes again. Major bummer.

It was the Texans

[Elmo]

As a Colts fan, I am so glad we have the replacement referees this year while the Colts aren't contending. Sorry Vance and Qwizboy, hopefully you can get the real guys back before the postseason.

[southwest1]

It was the Texans

Sorry Vance, I didn't mean to stir up some less than flattering Houston franchise memories. Focus on the here and now. Your Texans are serious Playoff contenders now. Remember that my friend. You have nothing to be ashamed of now IMO. Kubiack and Co. are legitimate now. You know it, I know it, and the rest of the NFL knows it.

[southwest1]

You know, i've heard some pundits say that the NFL owners win either way. Fans will tune in now to see how many calls the replacement zebras get wrong like a comedy tour where the laughs never ever stop. Sure, I suppose a select few fans like watching train wrecks for entertainment value alone I suppose, but the true admirers of this great game will demand consistency and fairness like I said in an earlier entry on this topic. As poor zebra calls continue to grow and mount, the NFL cannot bury it's head in the sand forever.

What will be their watershed moment? What cumulative event or series of events will turn the tide here and bring the regular zebras back? Don't treat this labor/safety negotiation like the Alamo through, no side ever wins a standoff to the bitter end and neither side benefits from becoming a self made Martyr or personal sacrafice for a symbolic cause either. Somehow, I don't view millionaires and billionaires fighting over money as a revolution for bread, freedom, or Democracy do you? Not by a longshot IMO.

Cue Mel Gibson in the film BraveHeart please...Just Kidding!!!

[southwest1]

You know, I just had a thought....This is how the NFL owners will end the zebra lockout. Ask a mystery 8 shake ball this question: Do the regular referees deserve to get paid? Yes or No?

Somehow, I could see Roger Goodell doing this:

[GoColts8818]

TJ Lang said in a news article that the Packers are talking about different measures to take. Such as getting the QB to take a knee every down until this ends. IF that were to happen I'd love to see the owners faces & be a fly on the walls in the locker rooms.

TJ Lang can try it but I doubt most players are really going to do it. TJ Lang is mad right now and just venting himself into a huge fine with the league. I got a better idea for Mr. Lang how about you work on not letting your QB get sacked 8 times in the first half so you aren't in this poistion to start with.

[Qwiz]

TJ Lang can try it but I doubt most players are really going to do it. TJ Lang is mad right now and just venting himself into a huge fine with the league. I got a better idea for Mr. Lang how about you work on not letting your QB get sacked 8 times in the first half so you aren't in this poistion to start with.

Exactly.

[Poster X]

perhaps we are looking at different videos, but as the nfl rules go, i have not seen a video which shows that Jennings has clear and undisputed independant possession of the ball . . . i just see two guys lying on the gound fighting for the ball . . . it may not be a just ruling surely, but the refs can only adjudicate as the rules provide . . .

I hate to say it, but I have lost what little respect I had for you Mr. Yehoodi after this. You don't seem to be looking at the situation very objectively. In fact you only seem hellbent on trying to prove everyone wrong with you immense knowledge of all things football... and you have failed.

Btw, in a earlier post I managed to call him Greg Jennings and not M.D. Jennings. My humble apologies.