Play Calling?

[Smitto]

It was a Josh Wilson article and he is a much more objective writer than Brad Wells. He pretty much hit it on the head with everything he said. Luck and Vinatieri pretty much bailed Arians out today. Steeler fans were happy to see Arians go for a reason. To stick with a ridiculously predictable run game, when you couldn't even run it when the defense was showing a more neutral look, it just makes you shake your head. When you have a guy as highly touted, and highly able as Andrew Luck behind center, you let him do his job. Don't force the run when you're lucky to get back to the LOS.

Bruce got fired BECAUSE he threw too much and they wanted to get back to running..... GoColts is quoting Peyton out of all Lol... this is not a Peyton manning team,you have a horrid Oline with linkenbach and oOlsen and a backup center... your best bet to protect that lead is to keep it on the ground and trust your defense... conservative but its smart football.

[indy1888]

For the people who doesnt like the play calling.. tough. Gone are the days when the defense comes off the field and the offense comes in and has a 3 and out faster than the speed of light because of incompletions... run the ball or at least try and keep trying cause its a rookie QBs bestfriend

It sure looked like it was his best friend yesterday as it let the Vikes cllimb right back in the game. Thankfully his best friend went home in the last 30 seconds so we could actually go win the game

[Smitto]

Me thinks Andrew might want to get some new friends.

Clay Matthews against Linkenbach? I'd say keep that best friend... hopefully justice is back way before then but yea.

[Smitto]

It sure looked like it was his best friend yesterday as it let the Vikes cllimb right back in the game. Thankfully his best friend went home in the last 30 seconds so we could actually go win the game

The Vikes were primed to get a turnover... great play calling by the colts and I hope they stick with it when its needed. Main reason that looked bad was because of the tipped TD made easier by the 22yd sack... if it wasn't because of that ppl wouldn't be talking about this.

[jskinnz]

My God, threads like these make me crazy

1) Criticizing play calling is the hallmark of the clinically uninformed. There is too much that we don't know about to justify the criticism

2) Last week the criticism seemed to be centered around throwing it too much and this week it is about being too conservative. Laughable.

3) If the double tipped pass falls incomplete like it would have 90% of the time, this is not an issue

4) And ultimately here is what bugs me most. They won the freaking game. There is real hope for the team where last year there was none. That was my sentiment walking out of the stadium yesterday - as my friend Andy Dufrain said "hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things." The Colts needle is pointing due north. They are not a playoff team but they will be fun to watch and are going to be infinitely more competitive than at any time in 2011. Just celebrate the fact that they won and know the win will be the first of many in the years to come.

[BleedBlu8792]

My God, threads like these make me crazy

1) Criticizing play calling is the hallmark of the clinically uninformed. There is too much that we don't know about to justify the criticism

2) Last week the criticism seemed to be centered around throwing it too much and this week it is about being too conservative. Laughable.

3) If the double tipped pass falls incomplete like it would have 90% of the time, this is not an issue

4) And ultimately here is what bugs me most. They won the freaking game. There is real hope for the team where last year there was none. That was my sentiment walking out of the stadium yesterday - as my friend Andy Dufrain said "hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things." The Colts needle is pointing due north. They are not a playoff team but they will be fun to watch and are going to be infinitely more competitive than at any time in 2011. Just celebrate the fact that they won and know the win will be the first of many in the years to come.

I think you and smitto are missing the point of what the majority of us are trying to say. Its not about running the ball, which as most of us have said the idea was fine. It was the running plays that were called. That's the problem. The repeated number of times that they ran right into the interior of that D-line with the same EXACT play that wasn't going anywhere but backward was the problem. Not once did they run it to the right. Everything was either A-gap or the other 1% being off tackle or outside to Costanzo's side. There was no variation. When they ran off tackle or to the outside they were getting very good positive yards out of it, but they only did it MAYBE a handful of times.

As I said in another post, the balance was awesome. The choices of the run plays called? Horrendous! STOP doing what's not working when you've tried it and failed 10+ other times. Stacking the line and expecting our 7 to go against their 8 or 9 and trying to win that battle hasn't worked either. Spread the offense out and get the LB's and safety's off the LOS. I would much rather our running backs and O-line try and fight through 5-6 guys as opposed to 8 or 9 guys.

Just my opinion...

[YOUR GM]

Arians run-to-pass ratio was much better yesterday. His problem is, he has no intention of developing an intermediate gameplan. All of his pass plays are either long developing routes or wide receiver screens. Very few slants, drags or hitches. The few times he did use those route combinations, we got key conversions.

His running gameplan is hit and miss. He called some timely draw runs that picked up good yardage, but he needs to stop calling so many runs up the gut. We don't have the line for that right now. Some of it was the playcalling, but a lot of it was Brown's inability to make the correct reads. There was one play in the second half where the run was designed to go between the tackle that he could've easily bounced outside for huge yardage (the tight ends and receivers had the edge sealed completely.) Instead, he danced around in the backfield and ran into traffic when the gap he was supposed to hit never opened. Stuff like that can't be coached or schemed. That's on the runnning back to turn that into a big play.

The other glaring flaw in the gameplan that I saw was his lack of adjustment. His play calling always seemed a step behind. The Vikings had 7-8 in the box all game when we were in our run heavy personnel. At some point, I would think he would dial up a quick slant or go route to attack their secondary, knowing you'll have a one-on-one somewhere. He did that once, late in the game with Avery, but Winfield had the slant snuffed out (having just blitzed on a run play the play before.) Trying to attack him with a slant immediately after he just blitzed was the obvious call, and the Vikes knew it was coming.

All in all, Arians did ok yesterday. He still needs to get rid of so many of the deep passing route combinations. He's going to get Luck hurt eventually. From what I've heard from Steeler fans, he's pretty stubborn so I doubt he changes anything about his play calling. Stubbornness is not a characteristic I like in my coaches.

[Kyle]

One thing I didn't like on the final series was the Caldwellesque clock mismanagement.

Whether the decision on the spiked ball, is coming from Luck, Arians or Pagano it was foolish. The clock wasn't running. Take a knee(moving forward)..., get back up... run the clock down to 3-4 seconds then clock it, and send out Vinateri.

Some might say that the extra time would be good to have in case there is a mishandled snap. Well that might be a valid point if the ball was snapped from the 8 yard line, but a bad snap at that point is going to send the game into OT unless it was horrendous enough for the Vikings to score off it.

It made little to no sense to leave that much time on the clock. As I said.. Caldwellesque... that was disappointing...

You also have to question why in the world didn't they decline the penalty.... the ball would have been snapped from the 33 as opposed to the 35.

I would blame the spiked ball on the replacement refs. if you watch close you can see that Luck was asking the ref something then hurried to the line. Somehow the game announcers then pointed out that the ref told him the clock would start as soon as the ball was set because they accepted a penalty on the D on the previous play. THAT IS TOTAL CRAP but that is what he was told would happen. Luck was clearly a bit upset that he had to spike the ball and he seemed to know the refs were making the wrong call.

[jskinnz]

I think you and smitto are missing the point of what the majority of us are trying to say. Its not about running the ball, which as most of us have said the idea was fine. It was the running plays that were called. That's the problem. The repeated number of times that they ran right into the interior of that D-line with the same EXACT play that wasn't going anywhere but backward was the problem. Not once did they run it to the right. Everything was either A-gap or the other 1% being off tackle or outside to Costanzo's side. There was no variation. When they ran off tackle or to the outside they were getting very good positive yards out of it, but they only did it MAYBE a handful of times.

As I said in another post, the balance was awesome. The choices of the run plays called? Horrendous! STOP doing what's not working when you've tried it and failed 10+ other times. Stacking the line and expecting our 7 to go against their 8 or 9 and trying to win that battle hasn't worked either. Spread the offense out and get the LB's and safety's off the LOS. I would much rather our running backs and O-line try and fight through 5-6 guys as opposed to 8 or 9 guys.

Just my opinion...

I don't miss the point. I get it completely.

[rittdk01]

Luck threw 9 times in the 4th to 7 runs thats plenty of pass,

They ran the ball way too much the entire second half. Running the clock down is okay for the last 5 minutes with a two td lead not the entire second half.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I would blame the spiked ball on the replacement refs. if you watch close you can see that Luck was asking the ref something then hurried to the line. Somehow the game announcers then pointed out that the ref told him the clock would start as soon as the ball was set because they accepted a penalty on the D on the previous play. THAT IS TOTAL CRAP but that is what he was told would happen. Luck was clearly a bit upset that he had to spike the ball and he seemed to know the refs were making the wrong call.

I feel that way to a point... Once he's under center and sees the clock is running.. Get out of spiking it... Call the sneak... fall forward.. same spot... Then spike it with 3-4 seconds left.

I'm sure the refs confused all involved since they accepted the penalty to start with but it could have still been handled different/better.

[FireJimCaldwell]

For the people who doesnt like the play calling.. tough. Gone are the days when the defense comes off the field and the offense comes in and has a 3 and out faster than the speed of light because of incompletions... run the ball or at least try and keep trying cause its a rookie QBs bestfriend

Those days are far from gone...Luck isn't immune to a 3 & out, and the difference from a 3 & out on 3 incomplete passes and 1 run and 2 passes is about 30-40 seconds. I'm going out on a limb and assuming you are talking about 2011, because those 3 and outs weren't that prominent over the previous dozen years.

Running the ball is a good thing, but as others have pointed out there are various ways to do it... Arians is far too predictable on his personnel groupings.

Arians will continue to throw the ball more than he runs it(over the course of the season). There will be games sprinkled in where they run it more than they throw it, but he's pass happy coach. Out of the 63 plays yesterday, he still called more passing plays than runs, Luck was just forced into scrambling.

[Gavin]

They ran the ball way too much the entire second half. Running the clock down is okay for the last 5 minutes with a two td lead not the entire second half.

13 times isn't to much in the 2nd half

[JustAColtsFan]

It was a Josh Wilson article and he is a much more objective writer than Brad Wells. He pretty much hit it on the head with everything he said. Luck and Vinatieri pretty much bailed Arians out today. Steeler fans were happy to see Arians go for a reason. To stick with a ridiculously predictable run game, when you couldn't even run it when the defense was showing a more neutral look, it just makes you shake your head. When you have a guy as highly touted, and highly able as Andrew Luck behind center, you let him do his job. Don't force the run when you're lucky to get back to the LOS.

They were calling a lot of runs to protect Luck for that reason. The OL could not protect him long enough to make a lot of passes. Everytime he scrambles out of the pocket and tries to run the ball he risks season ending injury. That would sure let the air out of our season! When he got the late hit out of bounds my heart almost stopped - so we got 15 yards whoopy. If he had been tackled into a table of Gatoraide and his arm broken that would have made last year look like a cake walk.

[Flash7]

We are so scared bacause of what happened with Manning being unable to play last year, and witnessing the crop of QBs that we had last year. This is football, we cannot be scared.

The Redskins are all-in with RGIII and they're letting him run and throw--to win games. RGIII is slight in frame and everyone is concerned about him getting hurt, but the Redskins know that if they are to win games, they have to let him play the only way he knows how.

We have our kid gloves on with Luck. Let's take them off and let him play to his full potential. When we let him play the first half, he led us to a two-TD lead. Then we completely took Luck out of the game, letting the Vikings back into the game. Then we once again relied on Luck and he led us on a briliiant 40-second drive for the win. If we kept Luck in the game instead of asking him to hand the ball of repeatedly, we could've and should've won big. Instead, we just rammed Brown and Ballard right into a brick wall for two quarters.

[chad72]

Running the ball is a good thing, but as others have pointed out there are various ways to do it... Arians is far too predictable on his personnel groupings.

Well said.

Maybe if we can get Trai Essex, we can get Chris Kaeomaetu, the former Steeler OG as well for mauling??? Is Kaeomaetu playing the Jake Scott game too, that he wont come for anything but a good price or is he injured???

After this game, after seeing how Luck threw well under duress and accurately for the most part, I have confidence in him to let him throw in end of game situations if he has a 1-on-1, just the short throws to move the chains. Or, spread them out and run it like someone else suggested. The personnel grouping being too predictable is a spot on assessment of Arians in the 4th qtr.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Well said.

Maybe if we can get Trai Essex, we can get Chris Kaeomaetu, the former Steeler OG as well for mauling??? Is Kaeomaetu playing the Jake Scott game too, that he wont come for anything but a good price or is he injured???

After this game, after seeing how Luck threw well under duress and accurately for the most part, I have confidence in him to let him throw in end of game situations if he has a 1-on-1, just the short throws to move the chains. Or, spread them out and run it like someone else suggested. The personnel grouping being too predictable is a spot on assessment of Arians in the 4th qtr.

The biggest problem yesterday on some of the runs is that they didn't seem to have a prayer to work... Flipping the run to the right to the left might give it a better option. If it's stacked a/b, then filter it outside/off tackle.... He has to be given the ability to do that. Especially after all the praise Pagano/Arians hung around his neck during training camp/pre-season. I don't know what % of the playbook is installed, or what % they use in any given game plan, but there has to be a number of runs that could be called. You have dives/traps/counters/sweeps/draws. Now those can be run out of various formations, and a dive over the center is different than dive off-tackle, but it seems they are trying to make things seem too complicated. It's football... Even most of the rookies have likely been playing it for 8-10 years...

Take off the training wheels.

[Superman]

The biggest problem yesterday on some of the runs is that they didn't seem to have a prayer to work... Flipping the run to the right to the left might give it a better option. If it's stacked a/b, then filter it outside/off tackle.... He has to be given the ability to do that. Especially after all the praise Pagano/Arians hung around his neck during training camp/pre-season. I don't know what % of the playbook is installed, or what % they use in any given game plan, but there has to be a number of runs that could be called. You have dives/traps/counters/sweeps/draws. Now those can be run out of various formations, and a dive over the center is different than dive off-tackle, but it seems they are trying to make things seem too complicated. It's football... Even most of the rookies have likely been playing it for 8-10 years...

Take off the training wheels.

Agreed.

Also, too much is made of the rookies. There really aren't that many. Luck and the tight ends, really, at least with the starting offense. We should be able to have a few audibles installed to get out of doomed run plays at any given moment.

[GoColts8818]

Agreed.

Also, too much is made of the rookies. There really aren't that many. Luck and the tight ends, really, at least with the starting offense. We should be able to have a few audibles installed to get out of doomed run plays at any given moment.

Unless Hilton, Brazil, Ballard, or Adams who is pretty much a rookie are on the field. That's all the skill positions except for Brown, Wayne, Avery, and Collie. Also for all of them it's a brand new offense so even the vets will need a little time to pick up on play calls.

With that said I think the audibles will come and frankly they are already there because last week they said Luck checked out of six run plays. I don't think Luck is at the Peyton Manning audible level yet where he could change it to any play in the playbook if needed but I do think he can change the play if he needs too. I think they were just determined they were going to run the ball yesterday which I think where most of us agreeing was the mistake. Once it became painfully clear that the run was not working they either needed to do something different with the run in terms of the plays they were calling or mix in a pass or two to back them out of the run defense they were in. When they did that in the first half the run was much more effective. They got caught playing not to lose yesterday and got away with it. That wont work most weeks and again I think most of us agree on that.

I'll agree with one thing Smitto said you don't just throw guys out there and say okay we are running team now. That's true and your play calling needs to reflect that. Yesterday they were calling plays like they were an established running team. That's where I think most people are taking issue with it. Again, I don't mind running the ball and I don't mind striving for more balance than we had in the Bears game. In fact I would agree we need more balance but I also thinking forcing the run like they were in the second half is mistake. I had zero issue with what they were doing in the first half. I just think they stopped being aggressive like they were in the first half and started to play it safe in the second half and nine times out of 10 you don't get away with that in the NFL. The Colts used up their one yesterday.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Didn't see the game & don't know what happened.

But I am not impressed with Arians at all. I take solace in knowing that eventually Andrew will know this offense better than Arians and that Christiansen(sp?) will steer Andrew towards making his own calls at the line.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Unless Hilton, Brazil, Ballard, or Adams who is pretty much a rookie are on the field. That's all the skill positions except for Brown, Wayne, Avery, and Collie. Also for all of them it's a brand new offense so even the vets will need a little time to pick up on play calls.

With that said I think the audibles will come and frankly they are already there because last week they said Luck checked out of six run plays. I don't think Luck is at the Peyton Manning audible level yet where he could change it to any play in the playbook if needed but I do think he can change the play if he needs too. I think they were just determined they were going to run the ball yesterday which I think where most of us agreeing was the mistake. Once it became painfully clear that the run was not working they either needed to do something different with the run in terms of the plays they were calling or mix in a pass or two to back them out of the run defense they were in. When they did that in the first half the run was much more effective. They got caught playing not to lose yesterday and got away with it. That wont work most weeks and again I think most of us agree on that.

I'll agree with one thing Smitto said you don't just throw guys out there and say okay we are running team now. That's true and your play calling needs to reflect that. Yesterday they were calling plays like they were an established running team. That's where I think most people are taking issue with it. Again, I don't mind running the ball and I don't mind striving for more balance than we had in the Bears game. In fact I would agree we need more balance but I also thinking forcing the run like they were in the second half is mistake. I had zero issue with what they were doing in the first half. I just think they stopped being aggressive like they were in the first half and started to play it safe in the second half and nine times out of 10 you don't get away with that in the NFL. The Colts used up their one yesterday.

I agree that the audibles will come, and nobody can expect Luck to have a Manningesque grasp of the offense at this point, but with all of the praise Arians and Pagano shoveled upon him he should have more options available to him than it seems that they did.

Maybe they were determined to call runs. Maybe they were doing that whether it was the best thing to do or not. That is a bit hard-headed..

Maybe Arians thought he had Bettis in the backfield........

[Superman]

Unless Hilton, Brazil, Ballard, or Adams who is pretty much a rookie are on the field. That's all the skill positions except for Brown, Wayne, Avery, and Collie. Also for all of them it's a brand new offense so even the vets will need a little time to pick up on play calls.

Yeah, I mentioned specifically the starting offense. It's just Luck and the tight ends, and we know Luck can handle it. Once the young receivers and Ballard come on the field, then we're maybe looking at some different things, but it's not rocket science. Every college offense uses audibles these days. They can handle a couple of checks from Dive Right to Off Left. I'm certain.

With that said I think the audibles will come and frankly they are already there because last week they said Luck checked out of six run plays. I don't think Luck is at the Peyton Manning audible level yet where he could change it to any play in the playbook if needed but I do think he can change the play if he needs too.

Yeah, that's on a completely different level. It evolved from year to year, to the point where the entire playbook was at the quarterback's disposal on virtually every play, and his teammates were on the same page with him, all without huddling. I don't expect that from this offense, not now, maybe never.

FJC is talking about simple audibles to go from one run play that's not likely to be productive, to a different run play that maybe has more chance to be successful. When the defensive line pinches in, run off tackle. When they stack left, run right. So on and so forth. Again, it's not rocket science.

[GoColts8818]

Yeah, I mentioned specifically the starting offense. It's just Luck and the tight ends, and we know Luck can handle it. Once the young receivers and Ballard come on the field, then we're maybe looking at some different things, but it's not rocket science. Every college offense uses audibles these days. They can handle a couple of checks from Dive Right to Off Left. I'm certain.

Yeah, that's on a completely different level. It evolved from year to year, to the point where the entire playbook was at the quarterback's disposal on virtually every play, and his teammates were on the same page with him, all without huddling. I don't expect that from this offense, not now, maybe never.

FJC is talking about simple audibles to go from one run play that's not likely to be productive, to a different run play that maybe has more chance to be successful. When the defensive line pinches in, run off tackle. When they stack left, run right. So on and so forth. Again, it's not rocket science.

I agreed with you so need to add the dig of it's not rocket science. The only thing I disagreed with you about was not accounting for the rookies when talking about the audibles in general. Yes Fleener and Allen might be the only two that "start" but the other guys are out there a lot.

The point I was getting at I think we agree on the basic point the Colts can already do basic audibles (something we agree on) and I sight the Bears game as an example of proof they are already are since the coaches said Luck changed the play from a run play to a pass play six times in that game. For whatever reason they didn't use them yesterday and I think it's because they were determined they were going to run the ball which I think is most people's issue with the play calling in the second half.

[GoColts8818]

I agree that the audibles will come, and nobody can expect Luck to have a Manningesque grasp of the offense at this point, but with all of the praise Arians and Pagano shoveled upon him he should have more options available to him than it seems that they did.

Maybe they were determined to call runs. Maybe they were doing that whether it was the best thing to do or not. That is a bit hard-headed..

Maybe Arians thought he had Bettis in the backfield........

Which is what I think is most peoples issue with the play calling in the second half. Luck seemed hand cuffed for some reason. It's odd that they let him change the play six times in the Bears game and they didn't seem to do it last week. My guess is that Arians told him don't change the play we have to run the ball. Again that's a guess. Which is why I think people have an issue with play calling yesterday. I am not trying to disagree with you I am just building off your point that's all.

[Superman]

I agreed with you so need to add the dig of it's not rocket science. The only thing I disagreed with you about was not accounting for the rookies when talking about the audibles in general. Yes Fleener and Allen might be the only two that "start" but the other guys are out there a lot.

Wasn't meant as a dig, certainly not toward you. Sorry if it seemed that way. Just saying that the coaches and the younger players should be able to get comfortable with some basic audibles as a part of our offense. Not Manning Era audibles, running the entire offense from one personnel set with no huddles. Nothing anywhere near that. But when you call a dive play, and the defense is pinched in, we should be able to check to a more suitable run play. That holds true even when the directive is that we're going to run the ball.

The point I was getting at I think we agree on the basic point the Colts can already do basic audibles (something we agree on) and I sight the Bears game as an example of proof they are already are since the coaches said Luck changed the play from a run play to a pass play six times in that game. For whatever reason they didn't use them yesterday and I think it's because they were determined they were going to run the ball which I think is most people's issue with the play calling in the second half.

Agreed.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Which is what I think is most peoples issue with the play calling in the second half. Luck seemed hand cuffed for some reason. It's odd that they let him change the play six times in the Bears game and they didn't seem to do it last week. My guess is that Arians told him don't change the play we have to run the ball. Again that's a guess. Which is why I think people have an issue with play calling yesterday. I am not trying to disagree with you I am just building off your point that's all.

That is a fair point and could quite very well be exactly what happened. Something appeared to change.

Arians comes off to me as having a huge ego as where Tom Moore seemed to have very little ego.

[throwing BBZ]

One thing I didn't like on the final series was the Caldwellesque clock mismanagement.

Whether the decision on the spiked ball, is coming from Luck, Arians or Pagano it was foolish. The clock wasn't running. Take a knee(moving forward)..., get back up... run the clock down to 3-4 seconds then clock it, and send out Vinateri.

Some might say that the extra time would be good to have in case there is a mishandled snap. Well that might be a valid point if the ball was snapped from the 8 yard line, but a bad snap at that point is going to send the game into OT unless it was horrendous enough for the Vikings to score off it.

It made little to no sense to leave that much time on the clock. As I said.. Caldwellesque... that was disappointing...

You also have to question why in the world didn't they decline the penalty.... the ball would have been snapped from the 33 as opposed to the 35.

Pagano commented on this after the game if you care to listen, coach.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Pagano commented on this after the game if you care to listen, coach.

Yes he did and his explanation doesn't change the fact or my opinion that it could have been handled better.

[Corndog]

It was a Josh Wilson article and he is a much more objective writer than Brad Wells. He pretty much hit it on the head with everything he said. Luck and Vinatieri pretty much bailed Arians out today. Steeler fans were happy to see Arians go for a reason. To stick with a ridiculously predictable run game, when you couldn't even run it when the defense was showing a more neutral look, it just makes you shake your head. When you have a guy as highly touted, and highly able as Andrew Luck behind center, you let him do his job. Don't force the run when you're lucky to get back to the LOS.

Pittsburg basically made him a sacrificial lamb, especially since they are running pretty much the same offense now. Their problem last year, just like ours was a weakened offensive line and for Arians offense to work you need a solid line. There is nothing wrong with trying to establish the run game, and it's something the Colts need to do. Arians did a pretty good job in Pittsburg, making Roethlisberger look like a solid QB. Last year was rough for him, he lost alot of lineman for the Steelers and it showed. Like it or not, Arians is going to keep trying to run the ball and with a 2 touchdown lead going into the fourth quarter there really isn't a better time to do it and it's when the team needs to run the ball.

[throwing BBZ]

I agreed with you so need to add the dig of it's not rocket science. The only thing I disagreed with you about was not accounting for the rookies when talking about the audibles in general. Yes Fleener and Allen might be the only two that "start" but the other guys are out there a lot.

The point I was getting at I think we agree on the basic point the Colts can already do basic audibles (something we agree on) and I sight the Bears game as an example of proof they are already are since the coaches said Luck changed the play from a run play to a pass play six times in that game. For whatever reason they didn't use them yesterday and I think it's because they were determined they were going to run the ball which I think is most people's issue with the play calling in the second half.

A guy coaches for 20 years or so, gets a New, Young bunch of players to work with, is with it/them everyday, and fans in the stands want to tell him what all these New players should be able to handle.

He had his share of 90 guys 16 days ago to bring along and evaluate, a shortened practice schedule this year, including in-season, I bet he will use EVERY TOOL he thinks they can handle as fast as the WHOLE UNIT can handle it.

Can you imagine how wide Arians eyes would light up if our draft board hits him a Hall of Fame caliber O-Lineman. ! Ya, me Too!

[Superman]

One thing I didn't like on the final series was the Caldwellesque clock mismanagement.

Whether the decision on the spiked ball, is coming from Luck, Arians or Pagano it was foolish. The clock wasn't running. Take a knee(moving forward)..., get back up... run the clock down to 3-4 seconds then clock it, and send out Vinateri.

Some might say that the extra time would be good to have in case there is a mishandled snap. Well that might be a valid point if the ball was snapped from the 8 yard line, but a bad snap at that point is going to send the game into OT unless it was horrendous enough for the Vikings to score off it.

It made little to no sense to leave that much time on the clock. As I said.. Caldwellesque... that was disappointing...

You also have to question why in the world didn't they decline the penalty.... the ball would have been snapped from the 33 as opposed to the 35.

I wouldn't call it Caldwell-esque, but it was troubling. These are the reasons why I prefer to see the head coach not calling plays, because they already have so many decisions to make, especially in crucial situations. Turns out the mistakes didn't hurt us, but hopefully they'll be a little tighter the next time.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I wouldn't call it Caldwell-esque, but it was troubling. These are the reasons why I prefer to see the head coach not calling plays, because they already have so many decisions to make, especially in crucial situations. Turns out the mistakes didn't hurt us, but hopefully they'll be a little tighter the next time.

It was up there...

That works both ways... If they are calling plays, or defenses, they can be more in-tune with the game.. I think it depends on the person. There are some that can handle it and some can't.

No they didn't end up paying a price for them, but it still should be on the to-do-list of things to eliminate.

[Superman]

It was up there...

That works both ways... If they are calling plays, or defenses, they can be more in-tune with the game.. I think it depends on the person. There are some that can handle it and some can't.

Jim Harbaugh is someone who is very in-tune with the game, without calling plays. During practice, he calls plays from the huddle. He seems to prefer being the one to call the plays, but he doesn't do it for games.

Flip side, Andy Reid, who knows how to put an offense together, but his situational play-calling and game management have probably cost his team a dozen games over the past decade.

I'd rather my head coach make the situational decisions and big picture management decisions than be calling and charting plays. He should be able to tell his offensive coordinator to pay attention to balance, to dictate a more conservative approach, whatever. Especially for a rookie head coach.

No they didn't end up paying a price for them, but it still should be on the to-do-list of things to eliminate.

Absolutely.

[throwing BBZ]

Yes he did and his explanation doesn't change the fact or my opinion that it could have been handled better.

Well, I think we all understood that at the time. Pagano should have known the rules and told the Official he was NOT going to start the clock.

If that kick had ended up short because of those 2 yards, or they had scored in those last few seconds I would say there were Many other plays in the game that were what if`s. Live and learn.

How in the world do you keep putting DB #21 on the field. wth!

[throwing BBZ]

I wouldn't call it Caldwell-esque, but it was troubling. These are the reasons why I prefer to see the head coach not calling plays, because they already have so many decisions to make, especially in crucial situations. Turns out the mistakes didn't hurt us, but hopefully they'll be a little tighter the next time.

If Pagano had been a head coach for 10 years along the way I think that would be a big plus in matters like this, right?

He will have to Improve in many ways over the next few years as a Head Coach just like everyone around him looks to get better.

How much longer before the Giants FIRE Coughlin?

[#12]

For the people who doesnt like the play calling.. tough. Gone are the days when the defense comes off the field and the offense comes in and has a 3 and out faster than the speed of light because of incompletions... run the ball or at least try and keep trying cause its a rookie QBs bestfriend

The attitude of Colt fans is an interesting study. When a 14 point 4th quarter lead vanishes, 90% of the fans out there would blame their defense. What do Colt fans point to? Play calling. Why is that? Because they're used to Manning doing everything and winning every game for them. They simply accept the fact they have no power running game and a pathetic defense. But you're right Smitto, this is precisely the attitude Pagano is trying to change. How the Colts played with a two TD lead is how 90% of the teams in the league would have played it, especially with a rookie QB and rookies, new players and inexperienced players across the field. Pagano has alluded to the fact that he wants to instill a different attitude, where you can run against a stacked box when you want to, and your defense can hold a two TD lead for you... where your QB isn't relied on to do everything.

[throwing BBZ]

It sure looked like it was his best friend yesterday as it let the Vikes cllimb right back in the game. Thankfully his best friend went home in the last 30 seconds so we could actually go win the game

Actually a Tipped pass caught in the end zone let them back in the game. JMO

[FireJimCaldwell]

Jim Harbaugh is someone who is very in-tune with the game, without calling plays. During practice, he calls plays from the huddle. He seems to prefer being the one to call the plays, but he doesn't do it for games.

Flip side, Andy Reid, who knows how to put an offense together, but his situational play-calling and game management have probably cost his team a dozen games over the past decade.

I'd rather my head coach make the situational decisions and big picture management decisions than be calling and charting plays. He should be able to tell his offensive coordinator to pay attention to balance, to dictate a more conservative approach, whatever. Especially for a rookie head coach.

Absolutely.

Those are two good examples... Pagano does seem more hands on than Caldwell was, so that is a plus. If a team is killing the defense with something, then I think he would address it on the sideline. Caldwell was more of a CEO type.

Offense and defense are similar even though they are different. Neither side of the ball wants obvious tendencies to be charted. You don't want to blitz only in the same situation, just as you might want to run the ball out of a certain grouping when you've thrown 100% of the time. Each coordinator/play caller has people in the booth that track things in game, and have that in their ear. Harbaugh still keeps his playchart with him on the sideline and I'm sure there are times that he might override the call from the OC. As he should if he has a feeling about a play or see something that he wants to exploit.

Two games isn't enough to determine how Pagano and his coordinators are going to interact. I feel he'll have more of a helping hand on the defensive side of the ball, but as you said, dictate the direction of the offense from time to time.

[Smitto]

I'm not gonna keep defending the run or the play calling. The coaches know what they are doing much more so than us fans.. I agree with the play calling...

Second a lot of ppl arsaying the calls were predictable... so what, that's what happens when your leading and you want to close the game... the opposing team knows you want to run the clock and running the ball is the easiest way.. especially for a team with a rookie QB.

Well done Colts

[Flash7]

The attitude of Colt fans is an interesting study. When a 14 point 4th quarter lead vanishes, 90% of the fans out there would blame their defense. What do Colt fans point to? Play calling. Why is that? Because they're used to Manning doing everything and winning every game for them. They simply accept the fact they have no power running game and a pathetic defense. But you're right Smitto, this is precisely the attitude Pagano is trying to change. How the Colts played with a two TD lead is how 90% of the teams in the league would have played it, especially with a rookie QB and rookies, new players and inexperienced players across the field. Pagano has alluded to the fact that he wants to instill a different attitude, where you can run against a stacked box when you want to, and your defense can hold a two TD lead for you... where your QB isn't relied on to do everything.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was our rookie QB who led us to have a 2-TD lead, was it not? We took our best player out of the game by asking him to continually hand off so that we could ask our runningbacks to run the same dive up the middle over and over again, all producing the same result.

I agree that a GOOD run game is a rookie QBs best friend, not a run game that puts a rookie QB in third an long-- must pass situations. This is actually worse for a rookie QB.

Also, other teams would not try to run out the clock with 2 quarters left, a whole half of a game. Maybe with 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter. We tried to run out the clock for two quarters!!!

When we needed Luck to produce, he did. All through the first half, and in a clutch game winning drive. Let's go with what works--give Luck the ball because we will live and die with how well he plays.