Dwight Freeney cut after today?

[jskinnz]

Mannings dead cap hit is a total of $16 million just the colts took $5.6million hit last year."The contract shows that the Colts absorbed a $5.6 million cap charge in 2011, representing one-fifth of the $28 million option bonus that never was paid. So they’ll get a credit against the $16 million acceleration, making the net cap hit $10.6 million."

[The Fish]

Oh great. Now we get to hear rumors about him being cut.

If he is cut Grigson has lost his mind. There is absolutely NO reason to cut him at this point. It would be pure foolishness.

This thread is probably the source.

[FireJimCaldwell]

This thread is probably the source.

The lackluster article posted on bleacher report is the likely source.

[TKnight24]

We can get that Vontae Davis late round pick back at best, a 6th rounder, just like Eagles unloaded Asante Samuel and his contract for a 7th. But unfortunately, if we trade him, the two teams with the most salary cap room right now might be the Jags and Titans, and I would hate for him to play in the same division where we will see him twice for sure.

I'm sure he'll be with us till the end of this season

[StewieG]

This thread is probably the source.

Nope. I didn't write that article.

I just posted it.

[HtownColt]

Missing the point altogether.

i was answering a question somebody had asked above. i can careless what dead money we have its not my money i aint paying them. i know we have a lot for free agency next year. so I dont get what point im missing. because freeney being cut is a pointless conversation to be having anyway in this point in time because he's not

[YellScreamGoColts]

My wife says that Dwight Freeney is the prettiest black man in the world LOL.. I'd miss watching him relentlessly try and pursue the QB!

[The Fish]

My wife says that Dwight Freeney is the prettiest black man in ther world LOL.. I'd miss watching him relentlessly try and pursue the QB!

lol ok.

[coltsfanmilyman]

Your Manning analogy is completely irrelevant. The situations are not remotely close.

I will let someone else chime in with the official numbers but his cap # is substantial. But another irrelevant comment is how I would feel about the move. Who freaking cares how I would feel about it. What is relevant is how Irsay feels about paying big dollars for a player who may not make the impact commiserate with his salary. And what Grigson may feel is that freeing up whatever cap space that would be saved by cutting Freeney may be able to used in other areas.

Again, ultimately I don't see Freeney being cut but to act like the notion has no logic to it is simply not accurate.

Me asking how comfortable you were with it was a rhetorical comment. Regardless of that it; cutting Freeney may have some logic, but just because it has logic doesn't mean it has good logic

[GoColts8818]

same story since March when Grigson said,

"Looking forward to DE Dwight Freeney being part of Colts defense in '12. He will be a Colt."

I still think that is true and Freeney will have a great year

Different people different situations but Irsay also said in December that if healthy Peyton Manning would be a Colt and we all saw how that one played out. Just playing devils advocate on that one. I am already on the record of saying I don't think Freeney will get cut.

[jskinnz]

Me asking how comfortable you were with it was a rhetorical comment. Regardless of that it; cutting Freeney may have some logic, but just because it has logic doesn't mean it has good logic

Another outstanding post.

[Superman]

On a totally unrelated note, on radio, I heard that Jake Scott does not want to come back and play unless it is for a deal that does not shortchange him.

Maybe cutting Freeney might help us land some OL vets that may not want to play for a 1 year deal and would want more. Just speculating.

Once final cuts are done, I think we have enough cap space to facilitate a deal for someone like Jake Scott. Steve Hutchinson signed for three years, $16 million, cap hit is $3.5 million. If necessary, we could fit a deal like that.

[jskinnz]

i was answering a question somebody had asked above. i can careless what dead money we have its not my money i aint paying them. i know we have a lot for free agency next year. so I dont get what point im missing. because freeney being cut is a pointless conversation to be having anyway in this point in time because he's not

If you are answering a question that somebody asked previous in the thread, I would quote that post instead of the two times you did to my post.

[HtownColt]

If you are answering a question that somebody asked previous in the thread, I would quote that post instead of the two times you did to my post.

aww calm down go have a coke and a smile. getting worked up because somebody quoted a post you made because you asked whats Mannings cap hit

[MIColtsFan]

Different people different situations but Irsay also said in December that if healthy Peyton Manning would be a Colt and we all saw how that one played out. Just playing devils advocate on that one. I am already on the record of saying I don't think Freeney will get cut.

so true...but hoping this statement still rings true

[jskinnz]

aww calm down go have a coke and a smile. getting worked up because somebody quoted a post you made because you asked whats Mannings cap hit

I did not ask Manning's cap #. Don't care what it is. I asked for Freeney's cap hit.

[Superman]

Secondly this is a complicated matter.

Absolutely. Let's complicate it even further, shall we?

Extending him now:

Again, a complicated situation based on not fully knowing how he will perform in the Pagano hybrid 3-4.

Here are three hypothetical contracts and how it would affect the 2012 salary cap and what his cap #'s would look like in the future. Keep in mind that he and his agent would have to agree to them. Some might argue they are too low, some might argue they are too high.

An extension now is risky because it could create an even larger cap burden if he isn't a fit in the new system.

Status quo:

In my opinion this is the worst case scenario. If things remain as they are, then Freeney plays out his contract at the 19& change #. He becomes a free agent, and the 25 million dollars he's been paid over the past two years and that is actual cash, not inflated cap #'s. That 25 million dollars would not be utilized in an extension.

...

I believe that he has to be moved, or extended. Letting things play out would be a mistake.

I agree with your comment about how bad of an option status quo is. Which is why my favorite option is an extension. I'm going to use your first scenario to illustrate how I think it should work, even though I think those numbers are too high. Considering that Mathis got four years, $36 million, with a $15 million signing bonus, I think four years, $45 million with a $15 million signing bonus would work. But we're going four years, $56 million, with a $20 million signing bonus.

First thing: the prorated bonus of $5 million still counts against the cap for 2012. No problem. But we get rid of the $14 million base salary, and replace it with base salary of $1 million. Add to that the new prorated bonus of $5 million ($20 million signing bonus divided by four years = $5 million prorated bonus per year), and we have a new cap hit for 2012 of $11 million. We just freed up $8 million in payroll for this season. If we don't use that $8 million this season, we can earmark it for next season.

Total cash paid out for 2012 = $21 million ($20 million signing bonus + $1 million base salary).

Now, let's assume that Freeney has a terrible year, and we don't want to keep him. That would really suck, but we'd be in decent shape to absorb that kind of problem. If we were to release him, we'd have the remaining $15 million of bonus money prorated. Depending on the release date, that dead cap hit could be split between 2012 and 2013, or it could all hit in 2013. We'd have up to $50 million in cap space bridging those two years, so it wouldn't be too massive of an issue.

We could also trade him for whatever we could get for him, and be rid of the contract going forward, but still have the dead cap hit of $15 million to amortize. He'd be due $30 million over the next three seasons, making him a tough one to move, but not impossible. Certainly easier than he is with one year, $14 million due.

In order to lessen the risk moving forward, I'd be offering him four years, $45 million, with a $12 million signing bonus. To make up for the smaller signing bonus, I'd throw in a $3 million roster bonus paid up front. He'd receive $15 million at signing. His base salary would be $1 million in 2012, and his cap hit would be $12 million ($5 million old bonus + new prorated bonus of $3 million per year + roster bonus of $3 million + base salary of $1 million). I'd also add a June 1 roster bonus of $3 million for 2013 to keep him motivated, and hope he has a good season. His remaining base salary would be $27 million over three years, broken up into $7 million in 2013 and $10 million in 2014 and 2015. Then his total likely to be earned money over the next two seasons would equal $26 million.

Year 1 - 2012: Old prorated bonus of $5 million + new prorated bonus of $3 million + roster bonus of $3 million + base salary of $1 million = cap hit of $12 million (actual cash paid to Freeney = $16 million)
Year 2 - 2013: Prorated bonus of $3 million + roster bonus of $3 million + base salary of $7 million = cap hit of $13 million
Year 3 - 2014: Prorated bonus of $3 million + base salary of $10 million = cap hit of $13 million
Year 4 - 2015: Prorated bonus of $3 million + base salary of $10 million = cap hit of $13 million

Under that scenario, if we were to release him after this season, the total money paid out to him would be only $2 million more than what we're going to pay him now. And the remaining prorated bonus (dead cap hit) would only be $9 million. By doing this extension, we'd be saving $7 million against the cap in 2012, so again, we're only talking about a $2 million difference in cap space. That dead cap space is easily absorbed next season.

If we decided to trade him, we could wash our hands without the conditional restructuring or extending of his contract that we'd have to deal with now. His new team could convert some of his remaining base salary into bonus and lower his cap hit for the remainder of the contract.

There's minimal risk, and we get some relief right now. More important than that, it makes more sense.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Absolutely. Let's complicate it even further, shall we?

I agree with your comment about how bad of an option status quo is. Which is why my favorite option is an extension. I'm going to use your first scenario to illustrate how I think it should work, even though I think those numbers are too high. Considering that Mathis got four years, $36 million, with a $15 million signing bonus, I think four years, $45 million with a $15 million signing bonus would work. But we're going four years, $56 million, with a $20 million signing bonus.

First thing: the prorated bonus of $5 million still counts against the cap for 2012. No problem. But we get rid of the $14 million base salary, and replace it with base salary of $1 million. Add to that the new prorated bonus of $5 million ($20 million signing bonus divided by four years = $5 million prorated bonus per year), and we have a new cap hit for 2012 of $11 million. We just freed up $8 million in payroll for this season. If we don't use that $8 million this season, we can earmark it for next season.

Total cash paid out for 2012 = $21 million ($20 million signing bonus + $1 million base salary).

Now, let's assume that Freeney has a terrible year, and we don't want to keep him. That would really suck, but we'd be in decent shape to absorb that kind of problem. If we were to release him, we'd have the remaining $15 million of bonus money prorated. Depending on the release date, that dead cap hit could be split between 2012 and 2013, or it could all hit in 2013. We'd have up to $50 million in cap space bridging those two years, so it wouldn't be too massive of an issue.

We could also trade him for whatever we could get for him, and be rid of the contract going forward, but still have the dead cap hit of $15 million to amortize. He'd be due $30 million over the next three seasons, making him a tough one to move, but not impossible. Certainly easier than he is with one year, $14 million due.

In order to lessen the risk moving forward, I'd be offering him four years, $45 million, with a $12 million signing bonus. To make up for the smaller signing bonus, I'd throw in a $3 million roster bonus paid up front. He'd receive $15 million at signing. His base salary would be $1 million in 2012, and his cap hit would be $12 million ($5 million old bonus + new prorated bonus of $3 million per year + roster bonus of $3 million + base salary of $1 million). I'd also add a June 1 roster bonus of $3 million for 2013 to keep him motivated, and hope he has a good season. His remaining base salary would be $27 million over three years, broken up into $7 million in 2013 and $10 million in 2014 and 2015. Then his total likely to be earned money over the next two seasons would equal $26 million.

Year 1 - 2012: Old prorated bonus of $5 million + new prorated bonus of $3 million + roster bonus of $3 million + base salary of $1 million = cap hit of $12 million (actual cash paid to Freeney = $16 million)
Year 2 - 2013: Prorated bonus of $3 million + roster bonus of $3 million + base salary of $7 million = cap hit of $13 million
Year 3 - 2014: Prorated bonus of $3 million + base salary of $10 million = cap hit of $13 million
Year 4 - 2015: Prorated bonus of $3 million + base salary of $10 million = cap hit of $13 million

Under that scenario, if we were to release him after this season, the total money paid out to him would be only $2 million more than what we're going to pay him now. And the remaining prorated bonus (dead cap hit) would only be $9 million. By doing this extension, we'd be saving $7 million against the cap in 2012, so again, we're only talking about a $2 million difference in cap space. That dead cap space is easily absorbed next season.

If we decided to trade him, we could wash our hands without the conditional restructuring or extending of his contract that we'd have to deal with now. His new team could convert some of his remaining base salary into bonus and lower his cap hit for the remainder of the contract.

There's minimal risk, and we get some relief right now. More important than that, it makes more sense.

That is a good point. Like you said depending on if he were released in 2013, it would either be a 15 million hit in 2013, or 5 in 2013 and 10 in 2014(post 6/1). I just had those #'s in a chart from a previous discussion(which is why i failed to correct the 5 in the heading).

One would think the great Nate Dunleavy would have at least broached it as an option.

The more you tweak the #'s with the lower SB and higher Roster Bonus dollars or higher base salaries, the better the situation from a Colts perspective if they were forced to walk away. An extension would also be a good token to the fan base in general since a high # doesn't have a working knowledge of the cap.

I think we both agree that something needs to be done and extension is a far better option than releasing him.

[shakedownstreet]

My wife says that Dwight Freeney is the prettiest black man in the world

no love for garcon?

[Warhorse]

National Enquirer > The Bleacher Report

[FireJimCaldwell]

There's minimal risk, and we get some relief right now. More important than that, it makes more sense.

I wonder if he would sign Mathis' contract if presented to him as an extension.

[Superman]

That is a good point. Like you said depending on if he were released in 2013, it would either be a 15 million hit in 2013, or 5 in 2013 and 10 in 2014(post 6/1). I just had those #'s in a chart from a previous discussion(which is why i failed to correct the 5 in the heading).

One would think the great Nate Dunleavy would have at least broached it as an option.

The more you tweak the #'s with the lower SB and higher Roster Bonus dollars or higher base salaries, the better the situation from a Colts perspective if they were forced to walk away. An extension would also be a good token to the fan base in general since a high # doesn't have a working knowledge of the cap.

I think we both agree that something needs to be done and extension is a far better option than releasing him.

I don't know if there's rules about the limit of a roster bonus. I'm assuming there is, because I've never seen a contract with a $3 million signing bonus and a $12 million roster bonus. But I would be trying to hide as much of that bonus money in an upfront roster bonus as I could.

[bahhummbug]

Ive said it it since march ill say it again no need giving him big money on a gamble.I want anyone one of you to tell me you have 14 million dollars to go to Vegas bet on black all of it and it be all good?No its just that a gamble 50/50 and Dwight is no way no how worth another 14 million this year Oh and by the way IDC what you try to add 19 million of what 122 mill cap for a OLB CMON MAN wake up.14 million on black if you reply to this you are as crazy as a former hippie from the 60s locked up.14 million on a gamble really?

[FireJimCaldwell]

I don't know if there's rules about the limit of a roster bonus. I'm assuming there is, because I've never seen a contract with a $3 million signing bonus and a $12 million roster bonus. But I would be trying to hide as much of that bonus money in an upfront roster bonus as I could.

That is a good question.. Kolb had one for 7.

Evidently Jamir Miller had a 14 million roster bonus way back when with Cleveland.

http://a.espncdn.com/nfl/columns/pasquarelli_len/1511212.html

I'm not 100% sure if there are limits on that or not, or if two sides negotiate an extreme situation like that on whether the NFLPA/NFL would sign off on it or not.

[StewieG]

no love for garcon?

Now thats hilarious.

[Superman]

Ive said it it since march ill say it again no need giving him big money on a gamble.I want anyone one of you to tell me you have 14 million dollars to go to Vegas bet on black all of it and it be all good?No its just that a gamble 50/50 and Dwight is no way no how worth another 14 million this year Oh and by the way IDC what you try to add 19 million of what 122 mill cap for a OLB CMON MAN wake up.14 million on black if you reply to this you are as crazy as a former hippie from the 60s locked up.14 million on a gamble really?

Do you think Freeney is a good player who can help our team win?

[bahhummbug]

Not when you can replace him with even a rookie that is a true OLB Loved Freeney over the years not worth a gamble 14 mill =almost 11 % of total teams pay.Is he worth it too you

[bahhummbug]

There will be OLBrs and NTs and Olinemen in the 1000plus players cut with 14 million if i was grigs id get a player i needed .By dropping Freeney like a hot tater

[Superman]

Not when you can replace him with even a rookie that is a true OLB Loved Freeney over the years not worth a gamble 14 mill =almost 11 % of total teams pay.Is he worth it too you

My question had nothing to do with the money he's owed. I'm simply asking whether you think he's a good player who can help us win. If you don't, or if you think he's easily replaceable (again, not in consideration to the money he's owed, but specifically with regard to his potential impact on the field), then there's no reason to go any further.

I do think he's a good player who can help us win. If you don't, then we're too far apart.

[Gavin]

My question had nothing to do with the money he's owed. I'm simply asking whether you think he's a good player who can help us win. If you don't, or if you think he's easily replaceable (again, not in consideration to the money he's owed, but specifically with regard to his potential impact on the field), then there's no reason to go any further.

I do think he's a good player who can help us win. If you don't, then we're too far apart.

Is he a GREAT player? without a question he is. Can he help us win now? If people who think 5-11 is winning (like many have said our record will likely be around including myself) then yes he can help us win. Now I've also stated Im 100 percent sure now we cant trade him given his cap hit and his age and 1 year left so I have moved on to hoping he picks up on standing up and the angles and so forth that have been discussed (also why would he renegotiate without knowing how well he would like the 3-4 and if he didnt know if he could pick it up?)

[bahhummbug]

My question had nothing to do with the money he's owed. I'm simply asking whether you think he's a good player who can help us win. If you don't, or if you think he's easily replaceable (again, not in consideration to the money he's owed, but specifically with regard to his potential impact on the field), then there's no reason to go any further.

I do think he's a good player who can help us win. If you don't, then we're too far apart.

Even a rookie who is a true OLB can help us win it is a team effort not a Freeney effort therefore you are too stuck on Freeney from past to understand what Iam saying.He as a 1 man will not win games he as 1 man will take away from the team too win games.Its really easy math 14 million more on a gamble.Everytime i see him mistep this year i will start a new thread to remind everyone of the great OLB Dwight Freeney.

[bahhummbug]

Never said trade him drop him ,drop him incase i was not clear drop him

[Gonzo]

Freeney is the starter. Are we already so down on Pagano to think he'd start the guy on name alone? Over 3 (meaningless) preseason games he probably has a little over half a games worth of snaps. Not to mention we probably haven't seen even a glimpse of the blitz packages to be run during the season.

[Gavin]

Freeney is the starter. Are we already so down on Pagano to think he'd start the guy on name alone? Over 3 (meaningless) preseason games he probably has a little over half a games worth of snaps. Not to mention we probably haven't seen even a glimpse of the blitz packages to be run during the season.

What name has Freeney made in the 3-4 exactly? Dont get me wrong I hope he picks it up but he is asked to do more in his role now. Freeney made a name for himself in the 4-3 not the 3-4.....yet

[Andy]

On the main page, where it shows all the forums...All I saw was "Dwight Freeney cut..."

Scared the heck out of me.

[Superman]

Even a rookie who is a true OLB can help us win it is a team effort not a Freeney effort therefore you are too stuck on Freeney from past to understand what Iam saying.He as a 1 man will not win games he as 1 man will take away from the team too win games.Its really easy math 14 million more on a gamble.Everytime i see him mistep this year i will start a new thread to remind everyone of the great OLB Dwight Freeney.

How am I stuck on Freeney in any way? You're the one who won't answer the question.

I'm not suggesting he's going to single-handedly win games. If anyone is stuck on anything, it's you, as you clearly demonstrate with your pledge to make a thread every time Freeney doesn't play to perfection. I wonder if you're going to start a thread for every incomplete pass Andrew Luck throws. This is silly.

Since you're unwilling to answer the question, I'll assume you don't want to debate this topic on it's merits. I'm moving on.

[Gonzo]

What name has Freeney made in the 3-4 exactly? Dont get me wrong I hope he picks it up but he is asked to do more in his role now. Freeney made a name for himself in the 4-3 not the 3-4.....yet

Right, I believe he's the starter because of what he's done on the practice field and in meetings, under evaluation by the coaching staff. If he couldn't cut it, he'd be cut.

[Superman]

Is he a GREAT player? without a question he is. Can he help us win now? If people who think 5-11 is winning (like many have said our record will likely be around including myself) then yes he can help us win. Now I've also stated Im 100 percent sure now we cant trade him given his cap hit and his age and 1 year left so I have moved on to hoping he picks up on standing up and the angles and so forth that have been discussed (also why would he renegotiate without knowing how well he would like the 3-4 and if he didnt know if he could pick it up?)

Again, set aside the status of his contract. If you think he's a GREAT player (I'm only asking if he's a good player), then I'm assuming you would agree that we are better with him than we are without him. No? Of course, that's not taking the contract into consideration. Yes, freeing up $14 million in cap space could help us add some players, but I'm talking about Freeney on his merits as a player.

If you think he's a GREAT player, then it stands to reason that it's worth an effort to keep him on the team, wouldn't you agree?

[shakedownstreet]

dwight isn't plating tonight. there are only two possible reasons for that, save for real games or trade. if they wanted to cut him, they'd play him all night

[Jackie Daytona]

man, I hope they are just saving him, I'd understand if the right deal came along, but I love dwight.....