Bill Polian's Do's and Don'ts of Free Agency....

[dgambill]

Polian did value internal players over other teams scraps. I agree with his principles...the do's and don'ts are a great GUIDE to go by but they aren't a bible. There are always exceptions. Like take for example bringing in a player that will change the culture of your team like Peyton did in Denver. Took a bunch of young guys and showed them how to work, be professional, and maximize their potential. Just because he was over 28 and made A money doesn't mean he should not be valued in FA. I think you have to go through the guys plus minuses with this list in mind...and if he makes your team better and it doesn't hinder you from making moves you need to make...you sign the guy. Its a nice list. Clearly teams that go willy nilly in FA and don't get their bang for their buck should take notice. Typically teams that don't draft well end up trying to offset mistakes with FA. Polian for a long time drafted pretty decent and signed his own guys keeping the organization on track and from spiraling out of control. He was very careful...perhaps too careful I can see that....a few more risks might have made a difference...or it could have caused turmoil in a locker room...cancer on the team that grows and cause discontent and a team to get worse. We were certainly good enough to win multiple SBs...some of the time we came up short because we didn't have the talent but most of the time we got out executed. Even the best run franchise in football the NE Patriots went over a decade between SB wins...didn't mean they weren't run the right way. Every team makes a couple mistakes...but overall Bill has consistantly run winning franchises...was that just by happen stance...I don't think so. The Colts as a business have been run very well over the years. Sports aren't perfect..sometimes the better team loses...there are upsets...fumbles...onside kicks...bad calls...you can't control everything. He put together a great franchise for a better part of a decade. It did fall apart at the end...mostly because of some injuries and some poor drafts...I think when he stepped aside. It was a good time to change...and I'm grateful for Bill's time here and enjoying the next generation...hopefully it will be just as successful. If we win another SB....I will be estatic...I don't expect it...I just enjoy it. To me the season is what I enjoy...the week to week...the games...the SB would just be like Ice cream.....AFTER CAKE. To expect it...well I pray I never get so jaded that I become one of those people that can't enjoy the ride...who only is infatuated with the destination....because the ride and the scenery to me on a trip is the best part.

[-JJ-]

Polian loved to give people money.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he made Bob Sanders the highest paid safety, Dwight Freeney the highest paid lineman (maybe highest paid defensive player at the time), Dallas Clark the highest paid TE, and Peyton the highest paid QB.  I'm not saying those decisions were wrong; I'm just writing what I think Dustin's justification is

and don't forget Harrison- 70 mil when he was older. Even Wayne 40 mil at the time

hey he kept the people he wanted but he paid for it.

[crazycolt1]

Yeah, you are simply on the wrong side of this.  Earlier in the thread you talked about him riding Manning's back to all the wins and then say Polian's players were always came up empty.  Seems contradictory.

 

And the 4th and 2 thing - remarkable...  You got the facts wrong on top of some horrid logic in the argument itself.  Just assume you were correct in that point and that happened in the Super Bowl year - so by your measure they only won the Super Bowl because the Pats gaffed a 4th down play in a game midway through the regular season?  So the rest of the wins in the regular season and the playoffs and the Super Bowl only happened because the Pats messed up in November?  That dog don't hunt.

 

But we can agree to disagree

OK, I got the games mixed up? Correct. But your logic is your opinion and that is no better than mine except to you. If you read my comments in total I do have a valid point no matter what you think. I am not here to debate or argue with anyone on this as it's old news at best. You are talking about one season, I am talking about Polians whole career. The facts are his Indy team failed to win games. Pick as many or delete as many reasons as you feel free to but facts are facts. Greatness is measured in wins and to be great anyone has to have the wins that matter the most. Sorry, but he don't fall into that category IMO.

[jvan1973]

OK, I got the games mixed up? Correct. But your logic is your opinion and that is no better than mine except to you. If you read my comments in total I do have a valid point no matter what you think. I am not here to debate or argue with anyone on this as it's old news at best. You are talking about one season, I am talking about Polians whole career. The facts are his Indy team failed to win games. Pick as many or delete as many reasons as you feel free to but facts are facts. Greatness is measured in wins and to be great anyone has to have the wins that matter the most. Sorry, but he don't fall into that category IMO.

Except for the fact the colts won more games in the 2000's than anyone else. Two superbowl appearances one ring. Nothing about that says anything other than superb.

[crazycolt1]

Except for the fact the colts won more games in the 2000's than anyone else. Two superbowl appearances one ring. Nothing about that says anything other than superb.

I guess you just want to argue now? No thank you. Find someone else with the same argumentative mindset as you.

[jvan1973]

I guess you just want to argue now? No thank you. Find someone else with the same argumentative mindset as you.

wasn't argumentative at all. Just gave the facts

[crazycolt1]

wasn't argumentative at all. Just gave the facts

If  it makes you feel like you won something by having the last word then be my guest.

[NFLfan]

Actually that was a regular season game I believe in 09 when we got to the SB and lost. In 06 the key was a return of Bob Sanders to the defense that sparked some great play limiting offenses. Peyton did lead us to a huge victory against the Patriots...it was a moment in time where a great player was staring down the barrell of being labeled a choker and he refused to let it happen. Stood tall and delivered a victory. So...no that was not the case in 06 when we won the SB. I also believe we absolutely had the best team in our PM era in 05 when the offensive line absolutely got man handled by Pittsburg. We also had a cb who got stabbed by his girlfriend *ly run straight into an immobile lug of a qb and then our most accurate kicker of all time shank the game tying fg by like 20 yards. In 09 we had another great team only to have our hof DE get injured on one of the last plays of the AFC chmpionship games making him extremely limited in pass rush against NO. Couple that with a horrible drop by Garcon at the end of the 2nd quarter...a botched onside kick...and then Peyton forcing a ball well Polian set us up in my mind for at least 3 good SB teams. Not bad if you ask me....and certainly we had our chances in other seasons too. A GM can only do so much...and he gave us a great chance every year.

These dos and don'ts are simply a sign that a great GM has a strategy and keeps to it. You look at a team like Washington for example and you would see that they don't or didn't for many years...all over the board without a vision to guide them. You want your GM to have a vision or plan..seems like Ryan has one as well....hope this offseason he gets to live out his. Its time for us to make that next step up in talent.

Always the voice of reason. Well said.

I like Polian's strategy especially that of re-signing his own players. Most of the time teams that win build through the draft, develop their own players, and re-sign their players that they feel are worth it. They will sign some key free agents to complement those already on the team. This past year the Giants signed something like 15 free agents. When I read that, my thought was that they would not have a good season. And they didn't. The winners of free agency rarely win championships (i.e. Redskins, "Dream Team" Eagles, even the last few Broncos teams.)

Having said that, your Colts are ready to win now. It makes sense to sign a few top-level free agents to complement the core players. You guys should have a lot of fun the next few weeks. Good luck!

[Superman]

I like Polian's strategy especially that of re-signing his own players. Most of the time teams that win build through the draft, develop their own players, and re-sign their players that they feel are worth it. 

 

That's a great strategy. I think anyone would agree. But you better consistently nail the draft.

 

And the problem with Polian as time went on is that he wasn't nailing the draft anymore; he was sort of botching it. And he overpaid to re-sign his own players. Add to that the fact that he practically shunned using free agency, even for mid-level supplementary players, and it starts to show as dogmatic stubbornness, not just a core belief system. (Ozzie Newsome is the prototypical "build through the draft" GM, but when a Dumervil deal or a Steve Smith deal comes up, he takes advantage of it.)

 

How much of that was him and how much was his son is impossible to know. 

 

But whenever I hear Polian talk about how to approach free agency, one eyebrow always angles upward. This is labeled as his "do's and don'ts," and based on his last few years in Indy, it could probably just be his "don'ts." Because it seems like his response whenever someone brought up signing a free agent was simply "DON'T." 

[ColtsBlueFL]

OK, I got the games mixed up? Correct. But your logic is your opinion and that is no better than mine except to you. If you read my comments in total I do have a valid point no matter what you think. I am not here to debate or argue with anyone on this as it's old news at best. You are talking about one season, I am talking about Polians whole career. The facts are his Indy team failed to win games. Pick as many or delete as many reasons as you feel free to but facts are facts. Greatness is measured in wins and to be great anyone has to have the wins that matter the most. Sorry, but he don't fall into that category IMO.

 

Oh the Colts had wins while Polian was in charge (President/GM).  What team were you watching? The club set league marks for most consecutive regular-season wins (23, 2008-09) and most regular-season decade wins (115, 2000-09, the Patriots had 112).  So you must talking only the Colts / Manning sub .500 post season W-L record.  Where the best of the best are.  And teams can be in one year, and out the next, while the Colts chugged on in almost every single year.  Only one team a year out of 32 wins the Super Bowl.  Polian was there 2 times with the Colts and won one of those.  Your expectation meter seems to be out of calibration.

[ColtsBlueFL]

That's a great strategy. I think anyone would agree. But you better consistently nail the draft.

 

And the problem with Polian as time went on is that he wasn't nailing the draft anymore; he was sort of botching it. And he overpaid to re-sign his own players. Add to that the fact that he practically shunned using free agency, even for mid-level supplementary players, and it starts to show as dogmatic stubbornness, not just a core belief system. (Ozzie Newsome is the prototypical "build through the draft" GM, but when a Dumervil deal or a Steve Smith deal comes up, he takes advantage of it.)

 

How much of that was him and how much was his son is impossible to know. 

 

But whenever I hear Polian talk about how to approach free agency, one eyebrow always angles upward. This is labeled as his "do's and don'ts," and based on his last few years in Indy, it could probably just be his "don'ts." Because it seems like his response whenever someone brought up signing a free agent was simply "DON'T." 

 

I really feel the failed Cory Simon FA experiment really soured him on high priced elite FA's.  I got very bad food poisoning from a chicken appetizer (buffet style at a large meeting).  I couldn't eat a chicken appetizer from anywhere for a good long time until the memory dulled...

[crazycolt1]

Oh the Colts had wins while Polian was in charge (President/GM).  What team were you watching? The club set league marks for most consecutive regular-season wins (23, 2008-09) and most regular-season decade wins (115, 2000-09, the Patriots had 112).  So you must talking only the Colts / Manning sub .500 post season W-L record.  Where the best of the best are.  And teams can be in one year, and out the next, while the Colts chugged on in almost every single year.  Only one team a year out of 32 wins the Super Bowl.  Polian was there 2 times with the Colts and won one of those.  Your expectation meter seems to be out of calibration.

If you have a high opinion of Polian that's fine. If regular season wins are enough for you that's fine too. I explained why I felt the way I do about Polian and that is my opinion. It is not a subject that is debatable because we have different opinions. We are not going to sway each other so as far as I am concerned it's done. That is all past history and it is what it is.

[Superman]

I really feel the failed Cory Simon FA experiment really soured him on high priced elite FA's. I got very bad food poisoning from a chicken appetizer (buffet style at a large meeting). I couldn't eat a chicken appetizer from anywhere for a good long time until the memory dulled...

I agree. I still don't drink vodka; had a bad experience.

But it doesn't have to be high priced, elite guys. From memory, I think we went 5 years with one free agent from another team: Vinatieri. Aside from low level fill-ins during the season, or waiver/practice squad poachings, from 2005 to 2010, there was practically nothing. He just lurched too far in the opposite direction.

Everyone knows you don't build through free agency. But it's still a useful tool to make your team better.

[southwest1]

Bill Polian's do's and don'ts for NFL free agency:

 

1. Do fill needs and make sure the player has a specific scheme fit

 

2. Don't sign a player and change his techniques

 

3. Do know the player you are signing very well

 

4. Don't believe that "your culture" will change a person's behavior.

 

5. Do realize that you are never one player away from a championship.

 

6. Do be very disciplined in sticking to your budget.

 

7. Don't pay a player above his grade.

 

8. Don't give A- or B-money (or years) to a player who doesn't play well on third down.

 

9. Don't give a four-year or longer contract, even to an A player, who is 28 years of age or older.

 

10. Don't give a long-term contract to a player with a significant injury history.

 

11. Do beware of players whose production dramatically increases in their contract year.

 

12. Don't chase the market, particularly for someone else's player, and don't allow agents to manipulate you.

 

13. Don't pay a free agent more money than the A-players or B-plus-players on your team.

 

14. Do save your money if you're not yet ready to contend.

Nothing to add here except to say that I like your thought process as a GM NCF. 

[NewColtsFan]

Nothing to add here except to say that I like your thought process as a GM NCF. 

 

Hey,  I appreciate the kind words,  but it's not MY thought process here, Southwest....

 

These are the views,  the principles of Bill Polian.    I got this from ESPN.

 

This is all him,  and not an ounce of me!

 

Wish it was,   but I'm not that smart!    

[Coltsfanman1953]

If you follow all of those rules, is there anybody that you can actually sign?

[Jdubu]

I absolutely love this. Everything about it. It details how NFL people try to think about any player but especially free agents. Ones that stood out to me.

1) Scheme fit - something to truly consider when considering Suh.

4) Don't believe your culture will change a player. Somethng that far too many on this forum think. The player is who he is. The notion that veteran leadership will change that is foolish. It rarely happens. If you have proven to be lazy or a knucklehead, the odds are very good you will remain lazy or a knucklehead.

5) Realize that you are never one player away from a championship - love this. One guy is generally not the missing piece.

6) Don't give big money to someone who does not play well on 3rd down - no sense in giving big money to someone who you have to take off the field on the money down.

9) No long term contracts for someone 28 or older. Teams have actuarial tables based on history and studies of when certain positions start falling off in their production.

10) Love the contract year comment - Albert Hayneworth leaps immediately to mind.

Great post from polian and I agree with the points you pulled out. I specifically like the one regarding don't change a players technique. I almost say, look at the underachievers of the league who didn't work with their original team. Were these guys a product of a scheme fit/change by the drafting team? Does their original talent fit better for a new teams scheme reverting back into what they thrived at in college? Jerry Hughes comes to mind. Man is gonna make 10 million/yr now because he got into a system that used his talents and not forced his flaws to show up in a system he didn't work well in.

Suh scares me in the sense he is an obvious talent in the league, perhaps too 1-2 but his talent has been pulled out of a 4-3 not a 3-4. His salary is based on that system and that technique, not from talents shown in the 3-4. Doesn't matter how much talent the guy has if the fit isn't 100% matched up to his contract.

A lot of things polian did that I disliked especially near his last 5!years or so but overall, he managed that team very well.

[lollygagger8]

My hindsight is awesome....

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

If you follow all of those rules, is there anybody that you can actually sign?

 

LOL, good point. Likely not, and that (Along with the failed Cory Simon FA experiment, IMO) is a reason everyone felt Polian was anti-free agancy.  Afterall, he has mentioned this as well-

 

"The best players are not in free agency. They are tagged or signed. These essentially are 'B' players whose agents are looking for 'A' money. That in itself is not the best of buys. But there are some situations you are forced to deal with so you bite the bullet and do it.''

 

Polian must not have felt forced very often.  ;)

[Superman]

If you follow all of those rules, is there anybody that you can actually sign?

 

Not if you stick to them with zero exception. The Saints would have passed on Drew Brees, for instance. Rule 10. The Broncos wouldn't have signed Manning. Rules 9, 10 and 13.

[Thewholefnshow28]

Considering Polian loathes free agency, I was ready to have a good chuckle, but that was pretty solid advice.

 

When I read the title of the thread I figured it would just be one line that says Don't do free agency.