Minicamp Day 1 (Andrew Luck, Dwayne Allen, Coby Fleener and more)

[coltsfanatic24]

fleener will be the starter by week 1.

[Smonroe]

who are these people that are constanatly comparing rodger/favre? i don't hear people talk about it much...people have lives, they move on.

yes, it's shocking that letterman talked about manning to luck on draft night...durrr

Did you watch ESPN or NFL channel today? Did you hear one Luck report where they didn't mention Peyton? I didn't.

From the horse's mouth: "Aaron Rodgers

forever will be linked to

Brett Favre

. It’s what happens when you follow a future Hall of Famer, and Rodgers seems to accept the fact it’s part of football history.

Plus, there’s no use avoiding the inevitable. The media … ha-hum … will never let it go. Someone, somewhere, always will ask that question.

“I don’t think so,” Rodgers told NFL Network’s Michael Irvin when asked if he thinks the questions will ever go away. “On some level, you have to embrace the fact that you’re mentioned with a future Hall of Famer in the same sentence a lot. I’m always going to be the guy that followed him, regardless of what happens. I’m hoping we can go down in a similar sense to the way that Joe Montana and Steve Young are talked about.”

[Andy]

That is part of the point. He hasn't seen 325 in years. I bet he's closer to 400 than 300 at this point.

It would be huge coincidence for Manning to show up at 6'5 230 for each physical. They rarely if ever change the height and weight for a player.

They change them every year... and Allen's weight, which seems to be the one that's confusing people, isn't going to be off since he just weighted himself a couple of months ago.

Either way, I'm going by the websites, as no one on this forum (including me) has any idea how much he really weights.

[Fx Stryker]

I don't care one bit about the comparisons. They are tied to each other like Eli/Rivers/Roethlisberger and Marino/Elway. That's just the nature of the game.

I just don't see it as accurate.

When I watch film on Luck, I see an athletic Drew Bledsoe. He doesn't move the same way as Manning, he doesn't have the mechanics.

I see a more mobile Drew Bledsoe. That's who throwing motion i see. But, people are going to incorrectly tie Manning and Luck together since they both wore the horseshoe.

That's what I mean. The comparisons aren't even accurate. I look at Luck and I don't see Manning one bit.

[FireJimCaldwell]

They change them every year... and Allen's weight, which seems to be the one that's confusing people, isn't going to be off since he just weighted himself a couple of months ago.

Either way, I'm going by the websites, as no one on this forum (including me) has any idea how much he really weights.

No they don't change them.

Allen & Fleener's weights are likely more accurate than others.

Manning has been 6'5 230 every year.

Freeney has weighed 268 every year..

Rarely will they change.... That is why they aren't accurate.

[NewEra]

I see more of a Rogers in Luck. which isnt a bad thing at all.

[Jules]

Interesting tweet about today:

#Colts atmosphere is day and night from Polian/Manning era. People working hard but not walking on egg shells.

— Paul Kuharsky (@PaulKuharskyNFL)

June 12, 2012

[Andy]

No they don't change them.

Allen & Fleener's weights are likely more accurate than others.

Manning has been 6'5 230 every year.

Freeney has weighed 268 every year..

Rarely will they change.... That is why they aren't accurate.

Well heights dont change... as for weights...

For starters, they don't drastically change weights anyway. 90% of players today don't change by more than 10 pounds during their career if you ask me. That's based on my observations. Now, Dwight Freeney was listed as 266 on Wikipedia, and they base that on NFL.com.

They do change, I've seen them change.

I think we'll agree to disagree on this one.

[HOFClipboardHolder]

The funny thing about Wilfork is that he was listed at 345 in college. He lost 20 lbs while preparing for the combine and they list the players at what they were when they weighed in at the combine.

Gronk is about 275 lbs currently and except for height there arent any real similarties between him and Fleener. Fleener is more like Graham, with similar straight line speed, acceleration coming out of cuts, route running and freakish athletic ability.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Well heights dont change... as for weights...

For starters, they don't drastically change weights anyway. 90% of players today don't change by more than 10 pounds during their career if you ask me. That's based on my observations. Now, Dwight Freeney was listed as 266 on Wikipedia, and they base that on NFL.com.

They do change, I've seen them change.

I think we'll agree to disagree on this one.

Whatever makes you feel better.

[andreaallennyc]

That's what I mean. The comparisons aren't even accurate. I look at Luck and I don't see Manning one bit.

Physically or as athletes there is little Luck and Manning have in common and their personalities are very different ... Luck is a interesting combination of mellow but intensely competitive. However, if you watched Luck in games last year, there was an uncanny similarity to Manning in terms of him changing the plays at the line, yelling and moving back and forth. So there are some similarities ... People were referring to Luck as a coach on the field, that sort if thing ... Obviously, that was college, but according to Coby, he was already changing plays at the line today, so that may develop in the NFL too. But they'll be compared just cause Luck is replacing Manning ... I'm over it already!!

[HOFClipboardHolder]

Physically or as athletes there is little Luck and Manning have in common

Thats a good thing

[andreaallennyc]

Yeah seriously. He was 25-42 with two picks and two dropped picks.

I think your info on the picks is wrong. Most reporters were saying no picks, just the 2 almosts ... Just one weird report saying the 2 & 2 ... But I wasn't there!!

[Fx Stryker]

I think your info on the picks is wrong. Most reporters were saying no picks, just the 2 almosts ... Just one weird report saying the 2 & 2 ... But I wasn't there!!

Well maybe most reports don't include the 7-on-7. They could have been there. Who knows.

[BProland85]

If anything, the opposite. Fleener is the 6'6 strong TE, and the same with Gronk. Allen reminds me more of Alge Crumpler in the early Michael Vick days.

Allen reminds me of a little slower version of Antonio Gates. Or maybe Jermaine Gresham from Cincy. Allen can go up and get the ball and is a sneaky underneath weapon. Fleener reminds me somewhat of Jimmy Graham more than any other TE. Both are athletic big TEs. Graham may have a little more athletism, but Fleener is faster.

[andreaallennyc]

Thats a good thing

Great clips ... Not sure what Manning would have done in this situation, but it is classic Luck:

If I didn't get that in properly, it's the Shareece Wright tackle ..

[buccolts]

Interesting tweet about today:

https://twitter.com/...589284388110336

Real nice Jules.

We're talking about weights & comparisons here, and you're trying to change the subject.

Er, stay on topic.

[GrizzColt]

I don't care one bit about the comparisons. They are tied to each other like Eli/Rivers/Roethlisberger and Marino/Elway. That's just the nature of the game.

I just don't see it as accurate.

When I watch film on Luck, I see an athletic Drew Bledsoe. He doesn't move the same way as Manning, he doesn't have the mechanics.

I see a more mobile Drew Bledsoe. That's who throwing motion i see. But, people are going to incorrectly tie Manning and Luck together since they both wore the horseshoe.

That may be the worst comparison I have ever heard or seen of Luck. First of all, Drew Bledsoe was a snail. How can you take an extremely athletic QB and the slowest most unathletic QB of all time and say one is a faster version of the other? So you are basing it ENTIRELY on the throwing motion...well Luck was almost always throwing on the run and Bledsoe never did, so I don't get that either because that would not be the same motion. Second of all, Drew was taller. Third of all, Bledsoe was NEVER considered a heady QB and Luck is, thereby rightly earning Luck comparisons to Manning.

As far as the comparison to Manning, it's obvious that it is because of the mental part. I have never read or heard anyone say they throw the same or look the same or eat the same cereal...it's making plays at the line. Nobody else does it like Manning except maybe this new kid Luck. tha'ts all their saying.

You should have gone with Aaron Rodgers like most people. That's a good comparison.

[FireJimCaldwell]

That may be the worst comparison I have ever heard or seen of Luck. First of all, Drew Bledsoe was a snail. How can you take an extremely athletic QB and the slowest most unathletic QB of all time and say one is a faster version of the other? So you are basing it ENTIRELY on the throwing motion...well Luck was almost always throwing on the run and Bledsoe never did, so I don't get that either because that would not be the same motion. Second of all, Drew was taller. Third of all, Bledsoe was NEVER considered a heady QB and Luck is, thereby rightly earning Luck comparisons to Manning.

As far as the comparison to Manning, it's obvious that it is because of the mental part. I have never read or heard anyone say they throw the same or look the same or eat the same cereal...it's making plays at the line. Nobody else does it like Manning except maybe this new kid Luck. tha'ts all their saying.

You should have gone with Aaron Rodgers like most people. That's a good comparison.

I'll go with what I see, and you can do the same.

As I said, I see an athletic version of Drew Bledsoe. Similar mechanics and throwing motion. Translation, add some speed to Bledsoe and there you go.

I'm talking about in the pocket since that is what pro QB's are asked to do more than throwing on the run.

Yeah Bledsoe was just a rock for brain *. ala Ryan Leaf... Far from it.

I do not see Rodgers or Manning in him physically.

[buccolts]

That may be the worst comparison I have ever heard or seen of Luck. First of all, Drew Bledsoe was a snail. How can you take an extremely athletic QB and the slowest most unathletic QB of all time and say one is a faster version of the other? So you are basing it ENTIRELY on the throwing motion...well Luck was almost always throwing on the run and Bledsoe never did, so I don't get that either because that would not be the same motion. Second of all, Drew was taller. Third of all, Bledsoe was NEVER considered a heady QB and Luck is, thereby rightly earning Luck comparisons to Manning.

As far as the comparison to Manning, it's obvious that it is because of the mental part. I have never read or heard anyone say they throw the same or look the same or eat the same cereal...it's making plays at the line. Nobody else does it like Manning except maybe this new kid Luck. tha'ts all their saying.

You should have gone with Aaron Rodgers like most people. That's a good comparison.

For a second there, I thought you were going to compare Bledsoe to Manning.

[Gavin]

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2011/8/29/2389220/andrew-luck-stanford-cardinal-QB-Prospect-playbook-NFL-draft-2012 this looks to be a decent breakdown of Lucks throwing motion , I could post a comparison to Mannings for some reason and I couldnt find one for Bledsoe

[andreaallennyc]

Well maybe most reports don't include the 7-on-7. They could have been there. Who knows.

No, there were no reports of picks at all in the am, just one dropped pass by Allen that everyone agreed on ... and reports of 2 dropped in the afternoon all plays included ... The guy reporting 2 and 2 had them all in the afternoon. He also said Coby Fleener missed all the OTAs, but Coby's a grad student and the rules about not playing until school is finished didn't apply to him ... He made the first two series and just missed the last (due to conflict with his grad school finals), so I don't find that reporter too credible ... But I know media reports can be really off ... So who knows for sure.

[andreaallennyc]

Interesting tweet about today:

#Colts atmosphere is day and night from Polian/Manning era. People working hard but not walking on egg shells.

— Paul Kuharsky (@PaulKuharskyNFL)

June 12, 2012

Great tweet. Sounds like a good atmosphere. FYI, Luck has been known for motivating his teammates in a very positive way ... Calms them down, makes them feel confident, settles them down after a bad play and helps them move on, etc. It would be great if that translates to he NFL.

[andreaallennyc]

I know that Philip Wilson from RATS tweeted this, but Tom James from the Trib said it was two dropped picks only: one from Thomas (of all people) and the other from Tommy Z. If there were two actual picks, I'd like to know who caught them. And I bet PW can't tell us because he doesn't know.

Wilson was really off today ... Made a whole bunch of observations that no one else saw ... Got facts wrong ... Totally bad day and stirring up concerns with these unfounded observations. Don't know what was wrong with him today ... Or is he always like this?

[Fx Stryker]

Wilson was really off today ... Made a whole bunch of observations that no one else saw ... Got facts wrong ... Totally bad day and stirring up concerns with these unfounded observations. Don't know what was wrong with him today ... Or is he always like this?

Phillip is usually a good reporter. How long have you been a fan?

[Jules]

You should have gone with Aaron Rodgers like most people. That's a good comparison.

I am starting to change my mind on the comparisons. I am not seeing a ton of Manning or Rodgers in his skill set or personality.

It it is time we all become brutally honest with Andrew Luck and with who we compare him to.

I think he has the quiet demeanor of Unitas, with the cool clutch aura of Montana, with the athletic ability of Steve Young and with the throwing mechanics of Marino.

[HtownColt]

Not surprising Dwayne Allen is better than Fleener

[HOFClipboardHolder]

I am starting to change my mind on the comparisons. I am not seeing a ton of Manning or Rodgers in his skill set or personality.

It it is time we all become brutally honest with Andrew Luck and with who we compare him to.

I think he has the quiet demeanor of Unitas, with the cool clutch aura of Montana, with the athletic ability of Steve Young and with the throwing mechanics of Marino.

you forgot Elway's arm strength

[Fx Stryker]

I guess we have God himself on our team.

[Gavin]

I guess we have God himself on our team.

No I thought we released God for a younger version

[Fx Stryker]

No I thought we released God for a younger version

He has never been said to be four of the best QBs all in one.

[Gavin]

He has never been said to be four of the best QBs all in one.

To be honest I think trying to roll any one Quarterback into one particular type of Quarterback is a disservice to any quarterback, I think people should just let him come out and build a in game chemistry and repore with the team, its a process just like it was for Manning his rookie year but all reports are encouraging, coming in both quarterbacks had 1-2 things they had to work on their rookie year, if Luck is given time to throw with any regularity I think things will be just fine and progress from just fine to better as games and a couple years go by just like Manning. I see it like this, if he shows natural leadership abilities, can manage the clock especially in 2 minute offense situations then he dont have to put up Peyton Manning numbers or better but given time I think his numbers get better and better, I'd like the idea of a balanced attack though where we dont have to put it all on one player down after down

[John Dee]

I don't care one bit about the comparisons. They are tied to each other like Eli/Rivers/Roethlisberger and Marino/Elway. That's just the nature of the game.

I just don't see it as accurate.

When I watch film on Luck, I see an athletic Drew Bledsoe. He doesn't move the same way as Manning, he doesn't have the mechanics.

I see a more mobile Drew Bledsoe. That's who throwing motion i see. But, people are going to incorrectly tie Manning and Luck together since they both wore the horseshoe.

I see a bigger version of Aaron Rodgers. Not Manning or Bledsoe...

[andreaallennyc]

Phillip is usually a good reporter. How long have you been a fan?

Only been following him for about 6 months, on Twitter, about as long as I've been on Twitter .... Never noticed anything blatantly off before ... Often very amusing ... Today was a big surprise. Fine to have his own opinions, but not his own facts!

[Jules]

lol Bledsoe was stupid and slow.

Luck isn't.

[John Dee]

Well heights dont change... as for weights...

For starters, they don't drastically change weights anyway. 90% of players today don't change by more than 10 pounds during their career if you ask me. That's based on my observations. Now, Dwight Freeney was listed as 266 on Wikipedia, and they base that on NFL.com94.

They do change, I've seen them change.

I think we'll agree to disagree on this one.

Andy... I just randomly chose a "Goose" year with Indy... 94, Tony is 27 years old and is listed at 6' 3" and 330?

Goose was never under 370, I am sure of that just on eye test alone.

His "official" weight with Balt in the SB season...... the same as years earlier... Goose was EVERY bit of 400+ in 2000.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SiraTo20.htm

[John Dee]

lol Bledsoe was stupid and slow.

Luck isn't.

yep, and Bledsoe had a far bigger arm than Luck will ever have. That comparison is way off.

[andreaallennyc]

Not surprising Dwayne Allen is better than Fleener

Well, most of the mock drafts had Fleener higher than Allen. I love that we have them both. I think they'll both be used a lot and Allen needs more time with Luck ... Fleener has had years with him already. Best for the Colts to get Allen up to speed as well. I wouldn't read more into it than that ...

[Fx Stryker]

Only been following him for about 6 months, on Twitter, about as long as I've been on Twitter .... Never noticed anything blatantly off before ... Often very amusing ... Today was a big surprise. Fine to have his own opinions, but not his own facts!

Yes because you know. I guess I missed the part where you were at the practice.

Sorry to say the world isn't filled with sugar, spice, and everything nice.

[Jules]

yep, and Bledsoe had a far bigger arm than Luck will ever have. That comparison is way off.

California cool.......

Let's compare him to boys from Cali or who have played there.