Word on Colts Mike Jenkins offer

[Warhawk]

would you guys be ok with trading collie and a 4th for jenkins and a 5th

Not even a little. I'd be outraged.

[IndyTrav]

Boy, Collie sure generated a lot if good will in that 6 game stretch 2 years ago....

[Warhawk]

Boy, Collie sure generated a lot if good will in that 6 game stretch 2 years ago....

It was a good 6 game stretch. And he's healthy again now.

I remember I was yelling for them to draft him back in 2009, was overjoyed when they did.

[HtownColt]

Why don't the Colts simply sign Lito Sheppard or Bryant McFadden and be done with it???

We brought in McFadden like 2 years ago and he could barely make it on the field, and Lito sheppard is washed up

[CopenhagenColt]

What about Cletis Gordon or Reggie Corner?

Not superstar CB's, but they're still free agents..

[JoKeR]

Boy, Collie sure generated a lot if good will in that 6 game stretch 2 years ago....

Last year doesn't really count, last year doesn't make him expendable in anyway.

[Moncrief]

heck no and I didn't spell heck either.

We ain't trading away Collie.

[IndyTrav]

Last year doesn't really count, last year doesn't make him expendable in anyway.

Not expendable in the sense he's a throw away, but the guy made his bones from the QB who put the slot WR position on the map.

The guy reminds me a lot of Brandon Stokely. Which is to say he's a marginal talent who's made to look better with tremendous QB play.

He plays the middle and is expected to catch passes in traffic, which is exactly what about 4 of our recent draft picks are expected to do. He's not an outside WR, and that DOES make him expendable.

Losing Collie on the offense is a negligible difference, however gaining a player like Jenkins on Def is a significant upgrade. Based on a purely cost/benefit ratio it makes perfect sense for us.

That all being said, it won't happen.

[JoKeR]

Not expendable in the sense he's a throw away, but the guy made his bones from the QB who put the slot WR position on the map.

The guy reminds me a lot of Brandon Stokely. Which is to say he's a marginal talent who's made to look better with tremendous QB play.

He plays the middle and is expected to catch passes in traffic, which is exactly what about 4 of our recent draft picks are expected to do. He's not an outside WR, and that DOES make him expendable.

Losing Collie on the offense is a negligible difference, however gaining a player like Jenkins on Def is a significant upgrade. Based on a purely cost/benefit ratio it makes perfect sense for us.

That all being said, it won't happen.

Collie is the only # 2 WR we have, who can and probably will play the outside again soon. Avery has a lot to prove, Hilton is just a rookie who's role is somewhat of a mystery. Jenkins is the 3rd CB on his team, he would upgrade the CBs but trading Collie would be like over spending IMO.

[CopenhagenColt]

Trading Collie for Jenkins would be overdoing it. He's no Megatron, but he's a solid slot WR, a starter and a safe target for Luck.

[Superman]

Not expendable in the sense he's a throw away, but the guy made his bones from the QB who put the slot WR position on the map.

The guy reminds me a lot of Brandon Stokely. Which is to say he's a marginal talent who's made to look better with tremendous QB play.

He plays the middle and is expected to catch passes in traffic, which is exactly what about 4 of our recent draft picks are expected to do. He's not an outside WR, and that DOES make him expendable.

Losing Collie on the offense is a negligible difference, however gaining a player like Jenkins on Def is a significant upgrade. Based on a purely cost/benefit ratio it makes perfect sense for us.

That all being said, it won't happen.

I don't think all that much of Mike Jenkins. He'd be an improvement over the corners we have now (presumably), but I can't see him really having that great an impact on our defense overall, not unless he can play better than he did in Dallas.

And I think Collie is a better receiver than Jenkins is a corner. I'd give Collie and a 5th for Jenkins and a 3rd, and feel like they got the better player, so I'd probably rather keep Collie. He's a player that has proven that he can produce in the NFL, unlike our draft picks. And I like our draft picks, especially TY Hilton. I like Brazill also, and Sambrano. All of them probably won't make the roster, but they have promise. Still, Collie is a proven commodity, not a rookie.

[IndyTrav]

Collie is the only # 2 WR we have, who can and probably will play the outside again soon. Avery has a lot to prove, Hilton is just a rookie who's role is somewhat of a mystery. Jenkins is the 3rd CB on his team, he would upgrade the CBs but trading Collie would be like over spending IMO.

When has Collie been a #2? Im not sure Avery has any more to prove than Collie. Statistically, he's right there with Collie outside of TDs (which can easily be attributed to #18), and his injury factor is again, right there with Collie... Saying Jenkins is the 3, is somewhat unfair, Carr is an outstanding CB, and Claboirne could be special...But I don't disagree with the over spending aspect. But when you have the availabilty of pass catchers that I feel we have, I don't think it would be unreasonable.

I don't think all that much of Mike Jenkins. He'd be an improvement over the corners we have now (presumably), but I can't see him really having that great an impact on our defense overall, not unless he can play better than he did in Dallas.

And I think Collie is a better receiver than Jenkins is a corner. I'd give Collie and a 5th for Jenkins and a 3rd, and feel like they got the better player, so I'd probably rather keep Collie. He's a player that has proven that he can produce in the NFL, unlike our draft picks. And I like our draft picks, especially TY Hilton. I like Brazill also, and Sambrano. All of them probably won't make the roster, but they have promise. Still, Collie is a proven commodity, not a rookie.

I don't think Jenkins is a stud by any means. But an upgrade none the less, at a position we sorely need, and perhaps would save a

draft pick in the next year or so....I also feel Collie has 'produced' but really only when he was on the field with other significant options, and possibly the GOAT at QB....I feel Collies production this past year, is a very strong indicator of what his future results will be....But Im also glad you mentioned those 3 WRs, because I too really like what we have. But, assuming healthy years (big if), Wayne/Avery/Collie/2TE are really going to hinder seeing any field time for Hilton/Brazil/Sambrano......

Assume with Luck we throw 550 times for a 60% Comp %, which I feel is realistic. (Newton 517-60%, Dalton 516-58%, Ryan 434-61%, Bradford 590-60%, PManning 575-56.7% rookie yrs).....Thats roughly 330rec to go around....Say 50 to our RBs, 80 to Wayne, 100 to our TEs, and 50 between Avery/Rookies....I feel these are all fairly conservative estimates.....That would leave roughly 50rec for Collie, which is right in line with his career avgs.....

Which is a long winded way of me saying I dont feel a 50rec WR is someone I would be upset to trade in hopes of landing possibly a #1 CB, or even #2....

[Superman]

I don't think Jenkins is a stud by any means. But an upgrade none the less, at a position we sorely need, and perhaps would save a draft pick in the next year or so....

People -- not necessarily you -- have complained ad nauseum that we didn't draft a cornerback, so it's kind of funny that you're talking about saving a future draft pick that we would probably use on a cornerback. I'd rather have Jenkins right now than any rookie, but I'd rather draft a corner than make Jenkins a long-term part of our secondary. He's decent, but he's more of a second or third corner than a starter that you should be making significant moves for. We could definitely use him, but I don't think he's anything special. Certainly not worth all the words spent on him around here lately.

I also feel Collie has 'produced' but really only when he was on the field with other significant options, and possibly the GOAT at QB....I feel Collies production this past year, is a very strong indicator of what his future results will be....But Im also glad you mentioned those 3 WRs, because I too really like what we have. But, assuming healthy years (big if), Wayne/Avery/Collie/2TE are really going to hinder seeing any field time for Hilton/Brazil/Sambrano......

1) You could say the same about Reggie Wayne: he's only produced in a significant way with other good options on the field, and only when catching from Manning. You could assume that Wayne's production last season is more indicative of what he'll do going forward, but I don't think that's a fair way to break any of our players down, though.

2) When Collie was leading the league in the first part of 2010, he was outproducing Reggie, Dallas wasn't on the field very much, Addai wasn't on the field very much, Garcon was in and out of the lineup and struggling through a hamstring injury (and dropping passes)... Collie was our most productive weapon in 2010. We were throwing the ball like crazy, and he was catching from Manning, but his production was unmistakable.

Assume with Luck we throw 550 times for a 60% Comp %, which I feel is realistic. (Newton 517-60%, Dalton 516-58%, Ryan 434-61%, Bradford 590-60%, PManning 575-56.7% rookie yrs).....Thats roughly 330rec to go around....Say 50 to our RBs, 80 to Wayne, 100 to our TEs, and 50 between Avery/Rookies....I feel these are all fairly conservative estimates.....That would leave roughly 50rec for Collie, which is right in line with his career avgs.....

Which is a long winded way of me saying I dont feel a 50rec WR is someone I would be upset to trade in hopes of landing possibly a #1 CB, or even #2....

I understand your logic there, but I don't agree with your assumption of Collie being a 50 catch player. If we're portioning out 330 receptions, a) I think 100 to the tight ends is high, and b) I think Austin is the #2 option behind Reggie. Maybe Fleener will be relied on more heavily, but I don't think he'll combine with our other tight ends for 100 catches. And since Austin will likely be primarily in the slot, he'll be the beneficiary of some mismatches with linebackers and he'll be the hot read more often.

That's neither here nor there, really. Of much more importance is the fact that he is a proven producer from the slot and outside, and he is reliable and professional. Like I said, I think he's a better receiver than Jenkins is a corner. If I were drafting and those two were available, I'd rather have Collie, regardless of my depth situation at either position. I also think I think more highly of him than you do (which isn't surprising at all).

If this were last year and we were talking about DRC, or even a couple months ago and we're talking about Asante Samuel, then Collie is an acceptable sacrifice. But not for Mike Jenkins.

[dw49]

I don't think all that much of Mike Jenkins. He'd be an improvement over the corners we have now (presumably), but I can't see him really having that great an impact on our defense overall, not unless he can play better than he did in Dallas.

And I think Collie is a better receiver than Jenkins is a corner. I'd give Collie and a 5th for Jenkins and a 3rd, and feel like they got the better player, so I'd probably rather keep Collie. He's a player that has proven that he can produce in the NFL, unlike our draft picks. And I like our draft picks, especially TY Hilton. I like Brazill also, and Sambrano. All of them probably won't make the roster, but they have promise. Still, Collie is a proven commodity, not a rookie.

Some of you , IMO , have Collie's value a bit pumped up. I'm not sure that he would be worth the difference between a 5th round pick in the 20's and a 3rd round pick in the top 10...yet alone that AND Jenkins. The 5th pick in the 3rd round is worth 245 points , the 20th pick in the 5th is worth 32 points. So that 5th round pick in your proposed trade woud be worth about 6 spots in the 3rd round as the pick 3/11 is worth 215 points. I would guess that Collie would bring no more than a 4th if the Colts decided to trade him.

[coltsfanatic24]

What position is the cowboys weakest in that we could possibly offer them a backup for?

the cowboys weakest position is safety but i sure hope we dont trade bethea.

[IndyTrav]

That's neither here nor there, really. Of much more importance is the fact that he is a proven producer from the slot and outside, and he is reliable and professional. Like I said, I think he's a better receiver than Jenkins is a corner. If I were drafting and those two were available, I'd rather have Collie, regardless of my depth situation at either position. I also think I think more highly of him than you do (which isn't surprising at all).

If this were last year and we were talking about DRC, or even a couple months ago and we're talking about Asante Samuel, then Collie is an acceptable sacrifice. But not for Mike Jenkins.

Would you consider Collie a top 25 wr in the NFL? Would you consider Jenkins a top 25 cb?

[Superman]

Would you consider Collie a top 25 wr in the NFL? Would you consider Jenkins a top 25 cb?

No, I wouldn't put either of them in the top 25 at their respective positions.

[IndyTrav]

No, I wouldn't put either of them in the top 25 at their respective positions.

I'm suprised by that actually. I personally couldn't put Collie that high, but I could find myself putting Jenkins in the bottom 25.

[Superman]

I'm suprised by that actually. I personally couldn't put Collie that high, but I could find myself putting Jenkins in the bottom 25.

No, I don't think that highly of Jenkins at his position. Putting him in the top 25 means that he could start for 7 teams in the NFL as their #1 corner. I don't think that's the case; I'm not sure he's better than Jerraud Powers, and we have one of the most unheralded cornerback corps in the league. I don't think Powers is a good #1. I think there are several teams that Jenkins would be a good #2 for, and I'd definitely put him in the top 50, probably even the top 40. But not top 25.

You know how I feel about Collie. He might not be ranked as high as Jenkins at his respective position, but I think his tools and assets are very good, and in a passing league having a reliable inside receiver who can also play outside is invaluable. He's not close to irreplaceable, of course, but I still think very highly of him.

[dgambill]

Aren't they both free agents after the season? I don't see trading draft picks for a guy that is going to walk away. We will have plenty of money to sign whomever is out there next offseason. I don't think our secondary is very good but I just don't like Jenkins attitude. I don't like guys that cry and complain. If I was him I would play my butt off and show the team that they made a mistake bringing in other guys. Force them to sit the rookie or put him on the slot receiver. Then get my big contract after the season. I just don't like whiners. I'm fine moving forward with what we have and use this season to get better and find out our weaknesses.

[GoColts8818]

Last year doesn't really count, last year doesn't make him expendable in anyway.

Well on top of that the fact we lost Garcon and the only other two proven WRs we have on the team are Avery who has major injury issues like almost Gonzo level and Wayne. We can't afford to trade a proven WR right now till we know for sure that the two kids we drafted with Luck are going to be worth keeping. Remember we spent our second and third round picks on WRs after Manning his rookie year and due to injuries and other factors Pathon and Green never really developed into the players the Colts hoped they would be and it wasn't till we got Reggie Wayne that we truly had a number two WR behind Marvin. I know Pathon had some decent years but he was the third best option on most plays behind Marvin and the tightend rather it be Dilger or Pollard.

[Superman]

Aren't they both free agents after the season? I don't see trading draft picks for a guy that is going to walk away. We will have plenty of money to sign whomever is out there next offseason. I don't think our secondary is very good but I just don't like Jenkins attitude. I don't like guys that cry and complain. If I was him I would play my butt off and show the team that they made a mistake bringing in other guys. Force them to sit the rookie or put him on the slot receiver. Then get my big contract after the season. I just don't like whiners. I'm fine moving forward with what we have and use this season to get better and find out our weaknesses.

If he gets pegged as a nickelback, it would cost him a lot of money. I get why he's upset. I don't like his attitude either, but I understand it.

[FightLikeSin]

Boy, Collie sure generated a lot if good will in that 6 game stretch 2 years ago....

Wasn't he leading the NFL in receptions until his concussion?

[GoColts8818]

People -- not necessarily you -- have complained ad nauseum that we didn't draft a cornerback, so it's kind of funny that you're talking about saving a future draft pick that we would probably use on a cornerback.

Honestly those people can complain but you know what most of them would be doing right now say had taken a CB with one our picks? Complaining about that we didn't take the poistion we did take with the pick.

To me this has just screamed of the fact we had more holes than we could fill in the draft. It's not like we drafted a guy at a poistion where the Colts are "deep" and frankly I am not sure if there is a poistion outside of kicker/punter where you could honestly say the Colts didn't need help at going into the draft.

This also screams to me the we want it now world we live in. A lot of people seem to want everything fixed this off-season and when you are rebuilding from the ground up like the Colts are it doesn't work that way. As hard as this is we really need to stay patient as fans and enjoy the rise of Luck and watch the supporting cast being put together around him. The NFL isn't like the NBA where you can sign or trade for two or three Super Stars and become one of the best teams in the league over night. We've seen teams try to do that and it doesn't really work out well. The NFL is a league where you have to pay your dues and work your way up. It's just how things work in the NFL.

[GoColts8818]

Wasn't he leading the NFL in receptions until his concussion?

He was but haven't you gotten the memo that was all a product of Peyton Manning? Mr. Collie was just lucky enough that Peyton wanted to throw to him.

Just for the record that's meant with sarcasm.

[lollygagger8]

What position is the cowboys weakest in that we could possibly offer them a backup for?

QB!

Too bad we let Painter go, he is an upgrade over Romo lol

[IndyTrav]

Wasn't he leading the NFL in receptions until his concussion?

Leading in something for a short while means what exactly?

Cruz and Nelson are better WR than Larry Fitzgerald because they beat him in yards and TDs?

Both play slot. Odd.

He was but haven't you gotten the memo that was all a product of Peyton Manning? Mr. Collie was just lucky enough that Peyton wanted to throw to him.

Just for the record that's meant with sarcasm.

How was he not a product of Manning? Everyone on the offensive side of the ball was.

I'll ask you the same thing I asked Superman. Is Collie a Top 25 WR in the NFL? Is Jenkins a top 25 CB?

[Superman]

Leading in something for a short while means what exactly?

Cruz and Nelson are better WR than Larry Fitzgerald because they beat him in yards and TDs?

Both play slot. Odd.

Where's the comparison to Larry Fitzgerald coming from? It simply means that the player who led the league in receptions is capable of a producing at a high level, and has proven that.

How was he not a product of Manning? Everyone on the offensive side of the ball was.

You make it sound like none of our guys are any good, just because they benefited from playing with Peyton Manning.

[Mameluc]

I'm suprised by that actually. I personally couldn't put Collie that high, but I could find myself putting Jenkins in the bottom 25.

to me, jenkins is overrated. he is a name that is popular not sure why.

id say Collie is a better WR than jenkins is a CB.

and maybe i cant put collie on the 25 maybe i can. maybe i can put jenkins... but that has nothing to do with who the better player is, it has to do that probably that he league has a lot of great WR. and maybe a top 30 WR is better than a top 25 CB.

[HtownColt]

to me, jenkins is overrated. he is a name that is popular not sure why.

id say Collie is a better WR than jenkins is a CB.

Mike jenkins is in my top 25 cb(24th to be exact) collie on the other hand is a good receiver but far from the top 25 receivers in this league

[ztboiler]

Where's the comparison to Larry Fitzgerald coming from? It simply means that the player who led the league in receptions is capable of a producing at a high level, and has proven that.

You make it sound like none of our guys are any good, just because they benefited from playing with Peyton Manning.

Regarding the Collie/Jenkins debate, I'd add that it isn't so much about relative value of each to the league, it is about relative value to the Colts current situation. To me, the top priority for the Colts this year is to establish Luck and get him off to a good start. In that regard, Collie is much more valuable to this team than Jenkins for the same reasons that Peyton Manning was able to make Collie look so good.

[Superman]

Mike jenkins is in my top 25 cb(24th to be exact) collie on the other hand is a good receiver but far from the top 25 receivers in this league

Wow. You think much more of Jenkins than most people I've talked to, including Cowboys fans.

[HtownColt]

Wow. You think much more of Jenkins than most people I've talked to, including Cowboys fans.

On the cowboys forum i looked at because i was curious what they were thinking they were looking to get a 2nd or a 3rd in return for him so they do value him alot

CBs I got over Jenkins in no order is:

Revis

Bailey

Asoumgha

Antonio Cromartie

Dominique Rodgers Cromartie

Asaunte Samuel

Aqib talib

Chris Gamble

Jarius Byrd

Quinten Jammer

Carlos Rodgers

Brent Grimes

Daunte Robinson

McCourty from new England

Patrick Peterson

Finnegan

Carr

Jonathan Joseph

Leon hall

Deangelo hall

Vontae Davis

Charles Woodson

Ike taylor

And Charles Tillman

That's just my opinion/list i know some of y'all disagree but mike Jenkins can ball when healthy. His tip drill to Sean lee on Peyton manning in overtime just keep popping in my head that was simply amazing.

For as collie he is good but he is too far off the top 25 WR list I don't want to list it

[Mameluc]

On the cowboys forum i looked at because i was curious what they were thinking they were looking to get a 2nd or a 3rd in return for him so they do value him alot

CBs I got over Jenkins in no order is:

Revis

Bailey

Asoumgha

Antonio Cromartie

Dominique Rodgers Cromartie

Asaunte Samuel

Aqib talib

Chris Gamble

Jarius Byrd

Quinten Jammer

Carlos Rodgers

Brent Grimes

Daunte Robinson

McCourty from new England

Patrick Peterson

Finnegan

Carr

Jonathan Joseph

Leon hall

Deangelo hall

Vontae Davis

Charles Woodson

Ike taylor

And Charles Tillman

That's just my opinion/list i know some of y'all disagree but mike Jenkins can ball when healthy. His tip drill to Sean lee on Peyton manning in overtime just keep popping in my head that was simply amazing.

For as collie he is good but he is too far off the top 25 WR list I don't want to list it

id add haden from the browns, thye kid from the ravens (i forgot his name), Aaron ross, routt, and more but im to lazy to think lol

[GoColts8818]

Leading in something for a short while means what exactly?

Cruz and Nelson are better WR than Larry Fitzgerald because they beat him in yards and TDs?

Both play slot. Odd.

How was he not a product of Manning? Everyone on the offensive side of the ball was.

I'll ask you the same thing I asked Superman. Is Collie a Top 25 WR in the NFL? Is Jenkins a top 25 CB?

If you go off the logic every player on offense in the NFL is a product of their QB and none should ever get credit for what they do and it also means you can't use it to go after a WR if you say everyone was a product of him.

With that said I don't think it's QB play alone that made Collie good. If it was why did Ismail, Pathon, Green, and Moorehead not work out? At some point the player has to have some talent on their own. Collie does. Did Manning enhance that a little bit? Sure, any great QB makes other players better that's part of why they get paid what they do. However, he doesn't take someone from worthless player to leading the league in receptions before Collie got hurt. I was just going after the people who like to act like our WRs were solely products of Peyton Manning. I don't feel that way. Again if they were guys like Ismail, Green, Pathon, and Moorehead would have all had the success that guys like Wayne, Harrison, Garcon, and Collie had with Manning. They didn't that seems to prove while Manning can help make a player better the player himself has to have some talent on his own.

No I don't think Collie a top 25 WR and it's not a straight up trade, you are including a 4th round draft pick in the trade as well that has some value as well. If we make the trade we now have another hole at WR and people will be screaming we didn't give Luck weapons. Maybe next year if the rookies prove they can be weapons I would think about it. With that said I don't know if the Cowboys are going to be looking for WRs. They have a pretty good little stable as it is.

[IndyTrav]

If you go off the logic every player on offense in the NFL is a product of their QB and none should ever get credit for what they do and it also means you can't use it to go after a WR if you say everyone was a product of him.

With that said I don't think it's QB play alone that made Collie good. If it was why did Ismail, Pathon, Green, and Moorehead not work out? At some point the player has to have some talent on their own. Collie does. Did Manning enhance that a little bit? Sure, any great QB makes other players better that's part of why they get paid what they do. However, he doesn't take someone from worthless player to leading the league in receptions before Collie got hurt. I was just going after the people who like to act like our WRs were solely products of Peyton Manning. I don't feel that way. Again if they were guys like Ismail, Green, Pathon, and Moorehead would have all had the success that guys like Wayne, Harrison, Garcon, and Collie had with Manning. They didn't that seems to prove while Manning can help make a player better the player himself has to have some talent on his own.

Im not saying every WR is a product of the QB, and that Collie doesn't have talent. He's a good player. But he was very clearly enhanced by Peyton Manning. If your holding your breath for Collie to lead the league in anything in the future, you should exhale now. Its not going to happen. I dont think Collie is even in the top 10 of Slot WR(esp if we count new age TE). I continually bring up Davone Bess in reference to Collie. How is Collie any better than Davone Bess? Who has done, EXACTLY what Collie has done, on a garbage team.

[GoColts8818]

Im not saying every WR is a product of the QB, and that Collie doesn't have talent. He's a good player. But he was very clearly enhanced by Peyton Manning. If your holding your breath for Collie to lead the league in anything in the future, you should exhale now. Its not going to happen. I dont think Collie is even in the top 10 of Slot WR(esp if we count new age TE). I continually bring up Davone Bess in reference to Collie. How is Collie any better than Davone Bess? Who has done, EXACTLY what Collie has done, on a garbage team.

I don't think I said I was holding my breath waiting for Collie to lead the league in something in the future I am also pretty sure I said playing with Manning helped Collie as it's helped every WR he played with. It's not like Collie is the only player on the team that benefited from playing with Manning which you yourself has said when you said everyone on the team benefited from playing with Manning. So if every player on offense benefited you can't really use it against someone when talking about them.

I am just saying Collie wasn't solely a product of Peyton Manning like some try to pretend he was.

Also, all WRs are product of the QBs they play with, not just Collie. That's why when you find a great QB there is generally a great WR with him. I am NOT saying Collie is a great WR but he's not worthless either. There is a level between being great and being a NFL journey man. Collie is on that level. He's a good player. He's not one of the best WRs in the NFL clearly but he's still pretty good.

Last year was very hard to judge because of the level of QB play we had. I think it was the Titans or the Ravens game we played last year where the announcers pointed out several times how Collie was getting open Painter just wasn't as familiar with the offense to make it to the third of fourth read to see that he was open. Whose fault is that? Painter or Collie? Yet both men suffered from it.

I am willing to wait and see what Collie can do with Luck. I think we need the experience Collie brings at the WR spot. If you disagree with that then fine you are welcomed too.

[HtownColt]

id add haden from the browns, thye kid from the ravens (i forgot his name), Aaron ross, routt, and more but im to lazy to think lol

Naw I would take Jenkins over Haden,Webb,Ross, and routt that's just my list

[FightLikeSin]

Leading in something for a short while means what exactly?

Cruz and Nelson are better WR than Larry Fitzgerald because they beat him in yards and TDs?

Both play slot. Odd.

It means the obvious...he the most productive pass catching WR in the NFL up until he was injured. There is no evidence to say he wouldn't have kept that going or dropped off afterwards because it's just speculation. But the stats are there, thus you cannot overlook the merit.

By your logic, Reggie Wayne is also a product of Manning and shouldn't do well without him. I'm sure that's why he was just 40 yards shy of another 1,000 yard season with Collins/Painter/Orlovsky.

[IndyTrav]

It means the obvious...he the most productive pass catching WR in the NFL up until he was injured. There is no evidence to say he wouldn't have kept that going or dropped off afterwards because it's just speculation. But the stats are there, thus you cannot overlook the merit.

By your logic, Reggie Wayne is also a product of Manning and shouldn't do well without him. I'm sure that's why he was just 40 yards shy of another 1,000 yard season with Collins/Painter/Orlovsky.

Leading the league in something for a short period of time doesn't mean a thing. It generally means that player has been given the opportunity and has excelled. Angerer lead the league in "tackles" for a short while, does that put him in the Willis/Lewis MLB discussion? I cite stats as much as the next guy, but Collie leading the league in anything WR related for 6weeks doesnt put him in the echelon of superb WRs which is what I was saying in reference to Fitz. Just because Nelson/Cruz outperformed him doesn't mean he isn't 10x the Wr those guys are, but yet they lead in WR categories.

And as for Reggie, he is a superb example of being a Manning product. Which isn't to say he's not a quality WR. He is. But Reggie skill is based on route running, timing, and the ball being there, all of which require high caliber QB play. There isn't a single time in Reggie's entire career where after a play I've thought to myself "Boy Reggie Wayne is the only WR who coulda made that play". This isn't a knock on Reggie. But he doesn't create a play, he's part of the play. Now it is a give and take. It takes the QB to do it, and the WR to do it as well and that is where Reggie does excel. In doing what's asked of him, not dropping passes, and making the plays that are there.