What Ever Will We Do?

[Dingus McGirt]

Realizing there are now two weeks - plus until the opener, I am a bit frazzled.  It seems a long way off (I know it really isn't).  I suppose roster moves, injury updates, and light practices will have to fill the void.

 

[Smonroe]

Cuts and roster moves.  Complain about ARs accuracy, the D backfield and Gay’s kicking.  
 

On that subject, did they say why he didn’t kick last night?  If anyone needed the work…

[richard pallo]

12 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

Cuts and roster moves.  Complain about ARs accuracy, the D backfield and Gay’s kicking.  
 

On that subject, did they say why he didn’t kick last night?  If anyone needed the work…

Gay didn’t need the work.  He made five over 50 in practice against the Bengals.  Huge overreaction with a rookie holder against the Cardinals.

[Shepman]

7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Gay didn’t need the work.  He made five over 50 in practice against the Bengals.  Huge overreaction with a rookie holder against the Cardinals.

This is a continuation from the end of last year.  This is not something new and feels eerily like what we saw from Adam in his last year after his injury.  The coaches even respond the same saying they aren't worried about it and then it repeats over and over again.

[Superman]

Just now, Shepman said:

This is a continuation from the end of last year.  This is not something new and feels eerily like what we saw from Adam in his last year after his injury.  The coaches even respond the same saying they aren't worried about it and then it repeats over and over again.

 

So what would you do about the kicker situation?

[richard pallo]

3 minutes ago, Shepman said:

This is a continuation from the end of last year.  This is not something new and feels eerily like what we saw from Adam in his last year after his injury.  The coaches even respond the same saying they aren't worried about it and then it repeats over and over again.

I think comparing Gay to Adam in his last year is a real Streeeeatch.

[Shepman]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

So what would you do about the kicker situation?

I would think long and hard about keeping the rookie who had a good night yesterday.  I don't see all their practices and maybe there is a glaring difference in the long run of practices. The money shouldn't matter as it is a sunken cost.  Easy for me to sit here and say all this when it is not my job and I am going off minimal exposure.  Sure makes me nervous when he kicks though.  I just wonder if he has some effects from his injury last year that they were pretty quiet about?

[Superman]

17 minutes ago, Shepman said:

I would think long and hard about keeping the rookie who had a good night yesterday.  I don't see all their practices and maybe there is a glaring difference in the long run of practices. The money shouldn't matter as it is a sunken cost.  Easy for me to sit here and say all this when it is not my job and I am going off minimal exposure.  Sure makes me nervous when he kicks though.  I just wonder if he has some effects from his injury last year that they were pretty quiet about?

 

You would think long and hard... and then do what? Do you really think Matt Gay needs to be replaced? 

[Shepman]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You would think long and hard... and then do what? Do you really think Matt Gay needs to be replaced? 

Well he was ranked 29th last year based on field goal % at 80.5% according to ESPN.  

[Smonroe]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You would think long and hard... and then do what? Do you really think Matt Gay needs to be replaced? 

 

Shrader was about 68% in college (where it's easier).  Gay is around 86%...in the pros.  

 

I think it was nice of them to put tape out there for Spencer.  Some team is going to pick him up.

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Shepman said:

Well he was ranked 29th last year based on field goal % at 80.5% according to ESPN.  

 

Okay. So you don't feel comfortable even saying on a message board that, yes, Gay needs to be replaced. There are no real world stakes here, and you're still hesitant about it.

 

The backup kicker has made some nice kicks this preseason. I think the decision makers will have a conversation about it, and I think it will be pretty brief and simple. Matt Gay is a proven performer, he has a track record of being a good NFL kicker, and if they aren't worried about him physically, they'll keep him. (And I think similar conversations will be had about players up and down the roster.) 

 

It's easy to wring your hands about it now, but actually making the decision is different from saying 'they should think long and hard about it.' 

[Dingus McGirt]

48 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Okay. So you don't feel comfortable even saying on a message board that, yes, Gay needs to be replaced. There are no real world stakes here, and you're still hesitant about it.

 

The backup kicker has made some nice kicks this preseason. I think the decision makers will have a conversation about it, and I think it will be pretty brief and simple. Matt Gay is a proven performer, he has a track record of being a good NFL kicker, and if they aren't worried about him physically, they'll keep him. (And I think similar conversations will be had about players up and down the roster.) 

 

It's easy to wring your hands about it now, but actually making the decision is different from saying 'they should think long and hard about it.' 

It’s one of the reasons the thread is titled as it is.  <salute>

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

It’s one of the reasons the thread is titled as it is.  <salute>

 

We can also complain about Herbstreit for the next two weeks. He was constantly out of touch last night. 

[Dingus McGirt]

Just now, Superman said:

 

We can also complain about Herbstreit for the next two weeks. He was constantly out of touch last night. 

They have preseason jitters, too!

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

We can also complain about Herbstreit for the next two weeks. He was constantly out of touch last night. 

Al is probably like, where is Collinsworth when I need him. People complained about Collinsworth, but Herby couldn't hold his jockstrap when it comes to being analyst. Collinsworth wasn't like by many only because when he really loved a player, he would talk about them too much.

[indyagent17]

They can’t really release Matt Gay because he would be a $10 million hit. But I would try to keep Schrader on the practice squad.

[Shepman]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Okay. So you don't feel comfortable even saying on a message board that, yes, Gay needs to be replaced. There are no real world stakes here, and you're still hesitant about it.

 

The backup kicker has made some nice kicks this preseason. I think the decision makers will have a conversation about it, and I think it will be pretty brief and simple. Matt Gay is a proven performer, he has a track record of being a good NFL kicker, and if they aren't worried about him physically, they'll keep him. (And I think similar conversations will be had about players up and down the roster.) 

 

It's easy to wring your hands about it now, but actually making the decision is different from saying 'they should think long and hard about it.' 

Once again, I don't have access to everything they see.  If I did, I would be consulting doctors, coaches and practice film and make an educated decision on if a move should be made.  In my work we don't pay someone top $ and keep them when their performance doesn't align.  Is this a blip or does it continue we will see. To be fair, he had one hell of a game last year kicking those 50+ yarders which won a fantasy game for me.

 

In my world there is a big difference in voicing a concern and complaining.  

[John Waylon]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

So what would you do about the kicker situation?

That depends on what they think they know. They see Gay in practice every day so maybe they aren’t worried, but from what we’ve seen so far it’s definitely understandable that we would be. Especially when the backup is hitting from 54 on a kick that still had some distance to spare. 
 

I have no idea what it means in terms of cap to make a move, other than it’s high for a kicker. But it’s not like we’re up against the cap anyways, so I would not let it bully me into staying put. 
 

But Ballard goes down with the ship. He won’t admit a mistake until after a season, so it doesn’t really matter what any of us would do because we all know what’s actually going to happen. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Superman]

44 minutes ago, Shepman said:

Once again, I don't have access to everything they see.  If I did, I would be consulting doctors, coaches and practice film and make an educated decision on if a move should be made.  In my work we don't pay someone top $ and keep them when their performance doesn't align.  Is this a blip or does it continue we will see. To be fair, he had one hell of a game last year kicking those 50+ yarders which won a fantasy game for me.

 

In my world there is a big difference in voicing a concern and complaining.  

 

You're obviously entitled to voice your concerns. You can even complain if you want, but I'm not accusing you of doing that. I just thought there would be value in actually playing the scenario out, rather than just talking about how the team should talk about it. 

 

I think the bolded is important. We all can disagree with decisions that are made, and we can judge based on the results of those decisions. But it's another thing to just snipe at decision makers without being honest about the process that's used to reach these decisions. 

 

In this case, we have an established, veteran kicker, who has a track record of being good at his job. He's also had some shaky moments. And then we have an upstart backup who has had a pretty good preseason. It's one thing to voice concerns, and it's another to actually say we should replace the veteran with the upstart. To be honest, a few days ago I voiced the same concern, even connecting it with what happened in 2019. But there are still several more steps before I'd start to believe that we need to replace the kicker. A kicker can go cold for a couple weeks, and then straighten it out; it happened with AV a few times over the years, and it's happened to several other kickers. Unfortunately, sometimes, he never gets it back. I think being overly reactionary to a couple of missed kicks is as much of a mistake as sticking with a bad kicker, but it's kind of hard to tell what's actually happening in the moment. 

 

I also think it's a little disingenuous that every conversation about Gay includes a comment about his pay. His contract isn't holding the team back. And this team just cut a prominent player with a big contract in the middle of the season last year, and got no cap benefit from doing so. They aren't going to stubbornly stick with an underperforming player just because of the contract, despite the narrative about how Ballard can never admit when he's wrong. If Leonard could be cut a few days before Thanksgiving, Gay can be cut in preseason. The question is whether that's the right decision to make. And even you, despite legitimate concerns, aren't ready to say that it is.

 

16 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

But Ballard goes down with the ship. He won’t admit a mistake until after a season, so it doesn’t really matter what any of us would do because we all know what’s actually going to happen. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Do you think it's a mistake to stick with Matt Gay right now? That's the actual question.

[luv_pony_express]

3 hours ago, Shepman said:

This is a continuation from the end of last year.  This is not something new and feels eerily like what we saw from Adam in his last year after his injury.  The coaches even respond the same saying they aren't worried about it and then it repeats over and over again.

Vinny’s problems went on quite a bit longer than Matt Gay’s have.

 

If he has a subpar season and the response from the FO is “We’re still confident in Matt” then it will be more comparable.

 

But I have to say that Shrader has looked really good.  He even booted a heckuva punt against the Cardinals.

[luv_pony_express]

18 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Do you think it's a mistake to stick with Matt Gay right now? That's the actual question.

I don’t think it is.  But as more data comes in on both Gay and Shrader, I reserve the right to change my mind.

 

Of course, that’s really easy to do as a mere fan.  The GM actually has to make decisions based on what information he has at the time a decision has to be made.

 

I honestly don’t think any GM would take a flier on Shrader and cut Gay loose in the current situation.

 

I was angry with Ballard for sticking with Vinny and Hot Rod as long as he did.  But sticking with Gay is the right call today.

[John Waylon]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

Do you think it's a mistake to stick with Matt Gay right now? That's the actual question.

Last night was the first full game I got to watch this preseason. I only got twitter highlights of the Cards game so all I know is that Gay has missed 3 and the kid they put out there last night drilled one that would have been good from probably 60. 
 

But based on that and Gay’s shaky performance last year, I think it very well may be a mistake. 
 

It’s just such a small sample size to judge from. Maybe they see Gay drill them all practice long from wherever while Schrader doesn’t. 
 

We’re paying Gay enough that this conversation should never have to happen. And we’ve seen he’s a good enough kicker to make that happen, but we haven’t seen it here yet. 

[King Colt]

Why not wait until the season starts before indicting the entire organization for gross incompetency and negligence? 

[Shepman]

34 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You're obviously entitled to voice your concerns. You can even complain if you want, but I'm not accusing you of doing that. I just thought there would be value in actually playing the scenario out, rather than just talking about how the team should talk about it. 

 

I think the bolded is important. We all can disagree with decisions that are made, and we can judge based on the results of those decisions. But it's another thing to just snipe at decision makers without being honest about the process that's used to reach these decisions. 

 

In this case, we have an established, veteran kicker, who has a track record of being good at his job. He's also had some shaky moments. And then we have an upstart backup who has had a pretty good preseason. It's one thing to voice concerns, and it's another to actually say we should replace the veteran with the upstart. To be honest, a few days ago I voiced the same concern, even connecting it with what happened in 2019. But there are still several more steps before I'd start to believe that we need to replace the kicker. A kicker can go cold for a couple weeks, and then straighten it out; it happened with AV a few times over the years, and it's happened to several other kickers. Unfortunately, sometimes, he never gets it back. I think being overly reactionary to a couple of missed kicks is as much of a mistake as sticking with a bad kicker, but it's kind of hard to tell what's actually happening in the moment. 

 

I also think it's a little disingenuous that every conversation about Gay includes a comment about his pay. His contract isn't holding the team back. And this team just cut a prominent player with a big contract in the middle of the season last year, and got no cap benefit from doing so. They aren't going to stubbornly stick with an underperforming player just because of the contract, despite the narrative about how Ballard can never admit when he's wrong. If Leonard could be cut a few days before Thanksgiving, Gay can be cut in preseason. The question is whether that's the right decision to make. And even you, despite legitimate concerns, aren't ready to say that it is.

 

 

Do you think it's a mistake to stick with Matt Gay right now? That's the actual question.

I would not replace Gay immediately; however, if he costs us some games I would be bringing in competition.  Funny thing is even Hot Rod was beating his competition but for some reason performance dwindled in games. I would also try and keep a kicker on the practice squad as he has had injury(s) in the past.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

4 hours ago, Shepman said:

I would think long and hard about keeping the rookie who had a good night yesterday.  I don't see all their practices and maybe there is a glaring difference in the long run of practices. The money shouldn't matter as it is a sunken cost.  Easy for me to sit here and say all this when it is not my job and I am going off minimal exposure.  Sure makes me nervous when he kicks though.  I just wonder if he has some effects from his injury last year that they were pretty quiet about?

you keep gay and then put the rook on the practice squad, which is probably what they’ll do 

[shasta519]

29 minutes ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

you keep gay and then put the rook on the practice squad, which is probably what they’ll do 

My guess is this is the plan too. Assuming nobody signs him to an active roster, he’s likely ticketed for a PS spot. 

[cdgacoltsfan]

5 hours ago, Smonroe said:

Cuts and roster moves.  Complain about ARs accuracy, the D backfield and Gay’s kicking.  
 

On that subject, did they say why he didn’t kick last night?  If anyone needed the work…

Looks like most have moved off of bashing Pierce.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

7 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Realizing there are now two weeks - plus until the opener, I am a bit frazzled.  It seems a long way off (I know it really isn't).  I suppose roster moves, injury updates, and light practices will have to fill the void.

 

(com)Plain and Simple... 

[Happy2BeHere]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Okay. So you don't feel comfortable even saying on a message board that, yes, Gay needs to be replaced. There are no real world stakes here, and you're still hesitant about it.

 

The backup kicker has made some nice kicks this preseason. I think the decision makers will have a conversation about it, and I think it will be pretty brief and simple. Matt Gay is a proven performer, he has a track record of being a good NFL kicker, and if they aren't worried about him physically, they'll keep him. (And I think similar conversations will be had about players up and down the roster.) 

 

It's easy to wring your hands about it now, but actually making the decision is different from saying 'they should think long and hard about it.' 

I think if gays contract was not what it was it could be easily assessed that perhaps they would be more likely to entertain taking a chance on the new guy.

 

I’m concerned about gay myself perhaps costing us 1-2 games this year…but I certainly have nowhere near enough evidence that the new guy is worth the gamble you know.

 

I still don’t much care for the “new holder” excuse though…I get it, but do we not have any plan B contingency in place if our primary placekicker holder goes down ??

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 8/23/2024 at 11:18 AM, richard pallo said:

Gay didn’t need the work.  He made five over 50 in practice against the Bengals.  Huge overreaction with a rookie holder against the Cardinals.

how many did he miss

[richard pallo]

20 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

how many did he miss

None.

[OLD FAN MAN]

21 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

None.

not bad

[Superman]

On 8/23/2024 at 12:29 PM, Shepman said:

I would not replace Gay immediately; however, if he costs us some games I would be bringing in competition.  Funny thing is even Hot Rod was beating his competition but for some reason performance dwindled in games. I would also try and keep a kicker on the practice squad as he has had injury(s) in the past.

 

I wasn't even thinking about Blankenship. They cut him after Week 1. I think the idea that the Colts are unwilling to make a move if a player isn't performing well -- including a kicker -- is disproved by recent history. 

 

I'm good with keeping a close eye on Gay. I think the discourse lately is a bit of an overreaction. And I think his pay is irrelevant. If he's shaky during the season, I'm confident the team would make a change. If he's struggling with an injury, they'd probably shut him down for a while. If he just loses the ability to make kicks like we've happen with other guys, then it's time to move on. I don't think we're actually close to either situation right now. 

[Superman]

On 8/23/2024 at 4:44 PM, Happy2BeHere said:

I think if gays contract was not what it was it could be easily assessed that perhaps they would be more likely to entertain taking a chance on the new guy.

 

I’m concerned about gay myself perhaps costing us 1-2 games this year…but I certainly have nowhere near enough evidence that the new guy is worth the gamble you know.

 

I still don’t much care for the “new holder” excuse though…I get it, but do we not have any plan B contingency in place if our primary placekicker holder goes down ??

 

I don't know enough about kicking to say that the holder was the problem in that game, but I do believe that even minor issues with the holder can throw a kicker off. 

 

We're talking about two missed kicks in a preseason game. From the same dude who hit 4 50 yarders in a real game last year. Including one to send the game into OT. And another to win the game in OT. I think Gay is a good kicker. Maybe he's losing it, but I'd rather wait and see how he looks when the lights come on.