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Colts have the 15th pick in the draft. (MERGE)


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I would love to get Nabors or Bowers at 15. I don't see the the point of going defense at 15 because we only play no resistance super soft zone anyways. We can start drafting defense in round 2. Let's get a game changer for the offense in round 1 to go with Taylor, Richardson, Pierce, Downs, Pittman(if he's back), Mallory. Woods is still available. We have a solid offense, Bowers or Nabors would be a great addition though.

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3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Do you think he should have any more influence than your typical offensive HC? And how much influence do you think he had on the Devonta Smith draft pick? 


Others have already stated pretty much how I feel.  I really don’t know how much influence the “typical HC” has on the draft.   I would assume no GM drafts in a vacuum.  They have to approve the direction the team is going with the HC in the first place.

 

I would hope Ballard would put aside his smartest guy in the room attitude and go with Shane’s needs, position wise.  
 

What I keep coming back to was a couple years ago when Ballard went to the board to select Ehlinger.  It looked like he surprised everyone in the room. I know 6th round picks are a crapshoot, but why waste it on a guy you know isn’t going to play.  
 

My point is that he showed arrogance with that pick.  I don’t think Frank urged him to take it.  

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1 hour ago, Smonroe said:


Others have already stated pretty much how I feel.  I really don’t know how much influence the “typical HC” has on the draft.   I would assume no GM drafts in a vacuum.  They have to approve the direction the team is going with the HC in the first place.

 

I would hope Ballard would put aside his smartest guy in the room attitude and go with Shane’s needs, position wise.  
 

What I keep coming back to was a couple years ago when Ballard went to the board to select Ehlinger.  It looked like he surprised everyone in the room. I know 6th round picks are a crapshoot, but why waste it on a guy you know isn’t going to play.  
 

My point is that he showed arrogance with that pick.  I don’t think Frank urged him to take it.  

I think some of you way over play Ballard’s ego.  Irsay has made it clear since he took over Ownership of the team that he has a brain trust of him, the GM, and head coach to make decisions.  Clearly Frank and Shane had/have input.  Also, Ballard is drafting players for his head coaches, it’s not like Shane wants one thing and Ballard wants something totally different.  A big part of the hiring process is figuring out what vision the head coach has for the team and making sure it aligns with the GM and Owner.  If it doesn’t you don’t hire the guy.  
 

Also, if Ballard and Shane weren’t getting along or had that happened with Frank there would have been leaks.  Look at the reports of how Grigson and Pagano didn’t like each other.  That’s a GM who let his ego get in the way.  You haven’t heard one report or any of that happening with Ballard.  
 

I think some of you are projecting your view of Ballard on to people in organization.  

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11 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think some of you way over play Ballard’s ego.  Irsay has made it clear since he took over Ownership of the team that he has a brain trust of him, the GM, and head coach to make decisions.  Clearly Frank and Shane had/have input.  Also, Ballard is drafting players for his head coaches, it’s not like Shane wants one thing and Ballard wants something totally different.  A big part of the hiring process is figuring out what vision the head coach has for the team and making sure it aligns with the GM and Owner.  If it doesn’t you don’t hire the guy.  
 

Also, if Ballard and Shane weren’t getting along or had that happened with Frank there would have been leaks.  Look at the reports of how Grigson and Pagano didn’t like each other.  That’s a GM who let his ego get in the way.  You haven’t heard one report or any of that happening with Ballard.  
 

I think some of you are projecting your view of Ballard on to people in organization.  


I get what you’re saying and mostly agree.  But my point was that Ballard gives off the “I’m the smartest guy in the room” vibe and maybe he’ll listen more to Shane now.  
 

You’re correct that none of us really know the interactions going on.  But if you watched the video of the draft the year they took Ehlinger, didn’t it seem like Chris made that decision by himself?   Like it was a surprise to everyone in the room?

 

Sure looked that way to me.  

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15 hours ago, Smonroe said:


Others have already stated pretty much how I feel.  I really don’t know how much influence the “typical HC” has on the draft.   I would assume no GM drafts in a vacuum.  They have to approve the direction the team is going with the HC in the first place.

 

I would hope Ballard would put aside his smartest guy in the room attitude and go with Shane’s needs, position wise.  
 

What I keep coming back to was a couple years ago when Ballard went to the board to select Ehlinger.  It looked like he surprised everyone in the room. I know 6th round picks are a crapshoot, but why waste it on a guy you know isn’t going to play.  
 

My point is that he showed arrogance with that pick.  I don’t think Frank urged him to take it.  

 

2 hours ago, Smonroe said:


I get what you’re saying and mostly agree.  But my point was that Ballard gives off the “I’m the smartest guy in the room” vibe and maybe he’ll listen more to Shane now.  
 

You’re correct that none of us really know the interactions going on.  But if you watched the video of the draft the year they took Ehlinger, didn’t it seem like Chris made that decision by himself?   Like it was a surprise to everyone in the room?

 

Sure looked that way to me.  

 

I don't get the 'smartest guy in the room' vibe from Ballard, at all. He seems very collaborative to me. I know others agree with your perception, I just don't see it.

 

I also went back and watched the 'With the Next Pick' video, when Ehlinger was drafted, because I didn't remember the situation. You can't even see anyone else's face, they're all blurred out. Ballard stands up, asked who just got drafted, goes up to the board and says 'Okay Terp.' Then pulled the card and says 'Ehlinger.' Someone in the room lets out a 'whooo!' It sounded like excitement to me. My read on it was that Ehlinger was Matt Terpening's guy -- Terp, the Colts director of college scouting. So it didn't seem to me like Ballard arrogantly made that decision by himself. It actually seems like an example of him leaning on the work of his staff. You obviously came away with a different impression.

 

No idea where Reich was on that pick. But we know he really liked Mike Strahan, and the Colts took him 11 picks later. So maybe Reich got his guy anyway?

 

Ultimately, I don't see it as a bad thing if Steichen and Ballard collaborate on the draft process. I hope he can make a significant contribution. But I think Ballard is very collaborative with the coaches and scouts anyway. And while I like a lot about Steichen so far, it seems like people hope for him to save the Colts from Ballard's poor drafting, and that seems misplaced. Steichen might have strong thoughts on what's needed from the draft, and he might have a special eye for talent, but I don't know if we have any indication on any of that, one way or the other. Just seems like an assumption that Steichen is going to make a huge difference in the draft process, when the bulk of the work is being done by the scouting staff.

 

Anyway, thanks for expounding on your earlier thought. Like I said, I wasn't looking to be argumentative, I was just hoping for some additional insight into this line of reasoning, which you provided. I don't agree, but at least I understand it a little better now. 

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2 hours ago, Smonroe said:


I get what you’re saying and mostly agree.  But my point was that Ballard gives off the “I’m the smartest guy in the room” vibe and maybe he’ll listen more to Shane now.  
 

You’re correct that none of us really know the interactions going on.  But if you watched the video of the draft the year they took Ehlinger, didn’t it seem like Chris made that decision by himself?   Like it was a surprise to everyone in the room?

 

Sure looked that way to me.  

It wasn’t overt, but I think he used to give more of that “vibe”. In the past

 

Humility is a great teacher

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14 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I have had a gut feeling for awhile Ballard is going to make a couple free agent signings that is going to shock colt fans.

I do too

 

There are DEs and at least one FS that could help the team from free agency

 

We are one of the worst teams adding pressure to opposing QBs

 

I see no one in this draft that could change that… this year

 

I see no one on the current team that can be that high sack high /pressure guy (it takes both)

 

The 4-3 vanilla defense that we run won’t be effective until we bring in that guy

 

As said before we have an extremely short window (2 Years) where we have our QB and LT on rookie contracts

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Ultimately, I don't see it as a bad thing if Steichen and Ballard collaborate on the draft process. I hope he can make a significant contribution. But I think Ballard is very collaborative with the coaches and scouts anyway. And while I like a lot about Steichen so far, it seems like people hope for him to save the Colts from Ballard's poor drafting, and that seems misplaced. Steichen might have strong thoughts on what's needed from the draft, and he might have a special eye for talent, but I don't know if we have any indication on any of that, one way or the other. Just seems like an assumption that Steichen is going to make a huge difference in the draft process, when the bulk of the work is being done by the scouting staff.

 

Anyway, thanks for expounding on your earlier thought. Like I said, I wasn't looking to be argumentative, I was just hoping for some additional insight into this line of reasoning, which you provided. I don't agree, but at least I understand it a little better now. 

 

Agreed. In general Ballard has been an above average evaluator. Pretty much every single analysis of draft success I've seen suggests that the Colts have been among the best drafting teams in the league during Ballard's tenure. Now some of it is agnositc about positional value, so that's not the whole story but IMO Ballard needs "help" and urging in that area more than with actual evaluation. And we haven't actually seen how great of an evaluator Steichen is, so we don't really know... we've seen in the past brilliant coaches that are very mediocre as draft evaluators. 

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3 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I do too

 

There are DEs and at least one FS that could help the team from free agency

Thinking secondary. I have a feeling they are pretty happy with their dline. Even though they moved off olie.  Once the secondary gets fixed they should be fine on the dline. Now saying that if a elite one is out there in FA or trade they could make that move.

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1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Thinking secondary. I have a feeling they are pretty happy with their dline. Even though they moved off olie.  Once the secondary gets fixed they should be fine on the dline. Now saying that if a elite one is out there in FA or trade they could make that move.

Respectfully I would disagree on the DL

 

We can add a CB in round 1 and a safety in round 2 or 3 and these will help, but our division has 2 pinpoint passers that will pick us apart

 

We will get clobbered in the playoffs and regular season by the great QBs

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5 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

Agreed. In general Ballard has been an above average evaluator. Pretty much every single analysis of draft success I've seen suggests that the Colts have been among the best drafting teams in the league during Ballard's tenure. Now some of it is agnositc about positional value, so that's not the whole story but IMO Ballard needs "help" and urging in that area more than with actual evaluation. And we haven't actually seen how great of an evaluator Steichen is, so we don't really know... we've seen in the past brilliant coaches that are very mediocre as draft evaluators. 

 

Yeah, you mentioned delineation of duties earlier, and I think that's important. No doubt the coaching staff has input, but they come in for a few weeks before the draft, while the scouts have been watching these players for years.

 

And I also agree that the thing that brings Ballard's draft standing down is not talent evaluation, it's positional value. He's only spent one meaningful pick on a QB, his LT came in the third round, he takes WRs in the second, and he drafts for a zone defense so CB hasn't necessarily been a top priority. In the past I wondered if he had a blind spot at Edge, because Turay and Banogu didn't work out, but Paye and Odeyingbo have been better. His best draft picks are a guard, a RB, and an ILB.

 

I think if Steichen came to Ballard and said 'this WR is the player we need to take this offense where it needs to go,' Ballard would give that serious consideration. But I don't know that he'd move heaven and earth to go get that specific WR, and I'm not sure he should.

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8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, you mentioned delineation of duties earlier, and I think that's important. No doubt the coaching staff has input, but they come in for a few weeks before the draft, while the scouts have been watching these players for years.

 

And I also agree that the thing that brings Ballard's draft standing down is not talent evaluation, it's positional value. He's only spent one meaningful pick on a QB, his LT came in the third round, he takes WRs in the second, and he drafts for a zone defense so CB hasn't necessarily been a top priority. In the past I wondered if he had a blind spot at Edge, because Turay and Banogu didn't work out, but Paye and Odeyingbo have been better. His best draft picks are a guard, a RB, and an ILB.

 

I think if Steichen came to Ballard and said 'this WR is the player we need to take this offense where it needs to go,' Ballard would give that serious consideration. But I don't know that he'd move heaven and earth to go get that specific WR, and I'm not sure he should.

I think if Steichen came to Ballard and said this WR is the player we need to take this offense where it needs to go I think he would move heaven and earth to go get that specific guy.  He went out and got Reich the quarterbacks he wanted.  He will do the same for Steichen if he made a request.  Steichen is his guy.  Ballard knows the window has now opened.  Ballard knows he's entering his seventh year.  Ballard has the wherewithal to make it happen.  Maybe Steichen makes the request maybe he doesn't.  but if he does I think Ballard will do it.  Just my opinion of course.  

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20 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, you mentioned delineation of duties earlier, and I think that's important. No doubt the coaching staff has input, but they come in for a few weeks before the draft, while the scouts have been watching these players for years.

 

And I also agree that the thing that brings Ballard's draft standing down is not talent evaluation, it's positional value. He's only spent one meaningful pick on a QB, his LT came in the third round, he takes WRs in the second, and he drafts for a zone defense so CB hasn't necessarily been a top priority. In the past I wondered if he had a blind spot at Edge, because Turay and Banogu didn't work out, but Paye and Odeyingbo have been better. His best draft picks are a guard, a RB, and an ILB.

 

I think if Steichen came to Ballard and said 'this WR is the player we need to take this offense where it needs to go,' Ballard would give that serious consideration. But I don't know that he'd move heaven and earth to go get that specific WR, and I'm not sure he should.

I agree with this, but to the last part, I absolutely think Ballard needs to move heaven and earth for a player/position if the HC/playcaller comes and tells him he needs X for his offense to work. Not necessarily THE one he wants, but at least the one Ballard feels (as a talent evaluater) brings the traits/skills the coach is after.

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3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think if Steichen came to Ballard and said this WR is the player we need to take this offense where it needs to go I think he would move heaven and earth to go get that specific guy.  He went out and got Reich the quarterbacks he wanted.  He will do the same for Steichen if he made a request.  Steichen is his guy.  Ballard knows the window has now opened.  Ballard knows he's entering his seventh year.  Ballard has the wherewithal to make it happen.  Maybe Steichen makes the request maybe he doesn't.  but if he does I think Ballard will do it.  Just my opinion of course.  

 

I'm not ruling it out. But the idea that Ballard would move up significantly in the first round, especially for a WR, seems at odds with everything we know about him already.

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7 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Not necessarily THE one he wants, but at least the one Ballard feels (as a talent evaluater) brings the traits/skills the coach is after.

 

All hypothetical, because I haven't dug into the WRs this year, and I don't think we draft a WR in the first round anyway...

 

If Steichen says 'we need Nabers to make this thing go, he's my #1 wish,' I'd expect Ballard to hear him and acknowledge this. But if Ballard's staff sees Nabers and Odunze as very similar, and Nabers is expect to go in the top 8, but Odunze is more like a 12-15 kind of guy, I think there's a discussion to be had. Or maybe they view Adonai Mitchell as a really good option in the second round. 

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5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

All hypothetical, because I haven't dug into the WRs this year, and I don't think we draft a WR in the first round anyway...

 

If Steichen says 'we need Nabers to make this thing go, he's my #1 wish,' I'd expect Ballard to hear him and acknowledge this. But if Ballard's staff sees Nabers and Odunze as very similar, and Nabers is expect to go in the top 8, but Odunze is more like a 12-15 kind of guy, I think there's a discussion to be had. Or maybe they view Adonai Mitchell as a really good option in the second round. 

Again, I generally agree, but at this point I think Ballard needs to be challenged on his approach. I’m not a fan of trading back again and again when you need difference makers.

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11 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Again, I generally agree, but at this point I think Ballard needs to be challenged on his approach. I’m not a fan of trading back again and again when you need difference makers.

 

That's probably the root of all this. People are dissatisfied with the results, and want someone to come in and force Ballard to do things differently. I guess we'll see about that.

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3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's probably the root of all this. People are dissatisfied with the results, and want someone to come in and force Ballard to do things differently. I guess we'll see about that.

Ballard talked about biases and identifying biases to make better decisions in his end of season presser. I hope that means he’s been self-scouting and sees the short-comings. 

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28 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

All hypothetical, because I haven't dug into the WRs this year, and I don't think we draft a WR in the first round anyway...

 

If Steichen says 'we need Nabers to make this thing go, he's my #1 wish,' I'd expect Ballard to hear him and acknowledge this. But if Ballard's staff sees Nabers and Odunze as very similar, and Nabers is expect to go in the top 8, but Odunze is more like a 12-15 kind of guy, I think there's a discussion to be had. Or maybe they view Adonai Mitchell as a really good option in the second round. 

 

Mitchell does look like a nice option if available in the second. However , Kiper and others have him going late first -early second. 

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45 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not ruling it out. But the idea that Ballard would move up significantly in the first round, especially for a WR, seems at odds with everything we know about him already.

I’m not talking about moving up in the draft for a WR.  I don’t think Steichen would ever demand that a rookie WR is worth moving heaven and earth to go and get.  Too much risk and unknowns.  No guarantee he’s going to pan out.  I’m talking a veteran proven player where you know his performance is documented and there for everyone to see and has seen.  Not a rookie no way.  Now if a player is sitting there when we pick and no need to move up then I could see him attempting to influence the pick.   I can’t see Steichen asking for a trade up for a WR like he’s the guy I guarantee will open up the offense.  I don’t see that at all.

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1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

I’m not talking about moving up in the draft for a WR.  I don’t think Steichen would ever demand that a rookie WR is worth moving heaven and earth to go and get.  Too much risk and unknowns.  No guarantee he’s going to pan out.  I’m talking a veteran proven player where you know his performance is documented and there for everyone to see and has seen.  Not a rookie no way.  Now if a player is sitting there when we pick and no need to move up then I could see him attempting to influence the pick.   I can’t see Steichen asking for a trade up for a WR like he’s the guy I guarantee will open up the offense.  I don’t see that at all.

 

Got you. The conversation was about Steichen's impact on the draft, so I assumed that's what you meant. And there are just so many considerations in the draft that I don't think it would be reasonable for a HC to put that kind of pressure on a GM. But that gives better context to your comment about QBs and Reich.

 

In free agency, different story. I don't think it's likely to happen here, but hypothetically, if Steichen told Ballard that he'd rather take this opportunity to revamp the WR room than pay Pittman market value, that could be interesting. 

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I don’t think it matters if CB goes WR/Bowers, CB or Edge as long as he nails one of those positions — this team needs a difference maker at a premium spot. I hope he doesn’t trade down because quality is more important than quantity right now. Ballard has to know his seat is warming so it’s going to be fascinating to see if his standard operating procedure changes. I’m definitely looking forward to this offseason. 

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Ballard has talked about blue chip players before and really doesn’t care about position if they’re a green jacket type. Nelson is a perfect example. If we’re sitting at 15 and nabers or bowers are there at 10, you would think he’d consider those two blue chip players. I think there’s a good chance we trade up if either fall to 10. We’re probably right outside of them falling to us but considering the need at those positions, it would be smart to move up imo. Even more so if you think one of them gives us a leg up in conference. It’s time to draft that game changer on offense and both players seem to be that. 

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16 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I have had a gut feeling for awhile Ballard is going to make a couple free agent signings that is going to shock colt fans.


If he signs any free agent (outside of our own) on the first day, I will be shocked. 
 

All in all, I think he’s played the FA game mostly right. Even though I get frustrated when I see a player of need get signed and we do nothing.  
 

But (and I know I haven’t done a good job expressing this) I thinks this is a “let’s go for it” year, and he may change his spots.  

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2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

It wasn’t overt, but I think he used to give more of that “vibe”. In the past

 

Humility is a great teacher


Yeah, that’s what I was (poorly) trying to say.  But as @Superman and others have pointed out, he wasn’t as arrogant as I was making him.

 

I really like him as a person and a GM, I just think he’s been too conservative in the past.  It’s okay to take a big swing and miss every now and then.  Like maybe throwing money at Chase…

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37 minutes ago, Smonroe said:


If he signs any free agent (outside of our own) on the first day, I will be shocked. 
 

All in all, I think he’s played the FA game mostly right. Even though I get frustrated when I see a player of need get signed and we do nothing.  
 

But (and I know I haven’t done a good job expressing this) I thinks this is a “let’s go for it” year, and he may change his spots.  

I could be wrong but I think Matt Gay was signed on the 1st day of FA.  Maybe someone with a sharper memory will know.

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1 hour ago, Smonroe said:


Yeah, that’s what I was (poorly) trying to say.  But as @Superman and others have pointed out, he wasn’t as arrogant as I was making him.

 

I really like him as a person and a GM, I just think he’s been too conservative in the past.  It’s okay to take a big swing and miss every now and then.  Like maybe throwing money at Chase…

 

I agree that he needs to be more aggressive at times. I generally agree with the disciplined approach, but the top contenders are generally playing in different waters. If we really want to open a window, we're going to have to push harder with player acquisition and cap management, at least for a 2-3 year stretch. 

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3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I could be wrong but I think Matt Gay was signed on the 1st day of FA.  Maybe someone with a sharper memory will know.


I didn’t consider him to be a “big time” hire, even though it was a good one IMHO.  
 

I mean his entire 4 year contract is about the same or less thansome of the day 1 FAs got for a year, lol.

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13 minutes ago, Smonroe said:


I didn’t consider him to be a “big time” hire, even though it was a good one IMHO.  
 

I mean his entire 4 year contract is about the same or less thansome of the day 1 FAs got for a year, lol.

You said any FA in your post.  Not “big time “ FA.  Money had nothing to do with your statement.  So I guess my memory was correct.  He filled a need with his signing and he was a good one.  I remember being surprised it happened so quickly.  He was obviously a target in the off season and he wanted him under contract quickly.

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4 hours ago, Smonroe said:


Yeah, that’s what I was (poorly) trying to say.  But as @Superman and others have pointed out, he wasn’t as arrogant as I was making him.

 

I really like him as a person and a GM, I just think he’s been too conservative in the past.  It’s okay to take a big swing and miss every now and then.  Like maybe throwing money at Chase…

Look up Chases stats since his rookie year.  The Colts have guys with more sacks than him over the last four years.  

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1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

Look up Chases stats since his rookie year.  The Colts have guys with more sacks than him over the last four years.  


Thats true, due to injuries.  But I’d still take him over any of our edge rushers.  
 

Wouldnt you?  

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1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

You said any FA in your post.  Not “big time “ FA.  Money had nothing to do with your statement.  So I guess my memory was correct.  He filled a need with his signing and he was a good one.  I remember being surprised it happened so quickly.  He was obviously a target in the off season and he wanted him under contract quickly.


OMG, you must know what I meant.  But if its that important to be technically correct, then you win, okay? 

 

Now back to my original statement, if Ballard signs any FA the first day, I’ll still be shocked.  

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Smonroe said:


OMG, you must know what I meant.  But if its that important to be technically correct, then you win, okay? 

 

Now back to my original statement, if Ballard signs any FA the first day, I’ll still be shocked.  

 

 

I won't believe Ballard will be aggressive in FA until it happens now. He's like the little boy who cried wolf in regard to fans year after year saying "this year Ballard should be more aggressive in FA for reason X or Y". This year it's because we have Steichen with our new QB and we will build around him. I will buy it when it happens. Unfortunately, I'm not going to fall for the hype of FA this year under Ballard (even with Steichen and AR). Don't buy it anymore. I'll believe it when I see it. 

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11 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

I won't believe Ballard will be aggressive in FA until it happens now. He's like the little boy who cried wolf in regard to fans year after year saying "this year Ballard should be more aggressive in FA for reason X or Y". This year it's because we have Steichen with our new QB and we will build around him. I will buy it when it happens. Unfortunately, I'm not going to fall for the hype of FA this year under Ballard (even with Steichen and AR). Don't buy it anymore. I'll believe it when I see it. 


Agreed.  And if he doesn’t do it this year, with all the cap space and some prime FAs available, he’ll never do it.  
 

I really think we need an edge rusher that teams have to worry about.  We have several good guys, not one great one.  When we hear names like Young, Allen, Burns, etc. being paid big bucks by other teams, I’ll be depressed.  

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