Colts offseason discussion / Ballard Grievances (merge)

[Superman]

21 hours ago, csmopar said:

Because despite what some on here think, Chris Ballard is the greatest GM in the history of the Colts. 

 

Kravitz, is that you?

[2006Coltsbestever]

17 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I don’t think Houston are contenders yet, but if Stroud keeps improving they could be close at the end of the season, but they’re probably eyeing next season. 
 

They are at least a season ahead of us, though, and that’s with AR working out. 

That's a fair post. I mean they won the division so they should be favored but I still think between them, Jags, and us anyone could win it. Jags after 2022 looked like they were going to take the division easily in 2023. Football is a game of luck sometimes; it also comes to down to health as well. Right now, if I had to predict, I think we split with Houston and Jacks, and Houston and Jacks splits. I am hoping we can sweep the Titans because going 4-2 in the division could go a long way.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

25 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Name 1 person in here that says we are contenders. I haven't and we aren't but it is fact we almost won the division with a backup QB. By the way Houston isn't a contender either, they are not on KC's, Baltimore's, or Cincy's level when Burrow is healthy. 

It doesn't matter if not even 1 person would say Colts are contenders...

 

But, if that's not the goal, what is?

 

And, when would that happen? Is there any indication that Colts are going forward on right track to get there?

 

Yes, Houston isn't a contender either but they got on right track already in very few years from a dumpster fire.

 

Do you get the point? Not 20 teams can be a contender, but only few of those 20 get in right track, and many just stay around the average all the time... And, Colts - apart from having hope in QB situation now - are just average in many other position groups in the roster. 

[Solid84]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That's a fair post. I mean they won the division so they should be favored but I still think between them, Jags, and us anyone could win it. Jags after 2022 looked like they were going to take the division easily in 2023. Football is a game of luck sometimes; it also comes to down to health as well. Right now, if I had to predict, I think we split with Houston and Jacks, and Houston and Jacks splits. I am hoping we can sweep the Titans because going 4-2 in the division could go a long way.

I mean, we could win it or the Jags could. The Texans are facing a number 1 schedule this season, but even if these three teams finish the season within a game of eachother I still think the Texans is the best team - in part because they face a much stronger schedule than us.

[dw49]

I must have read this over 100 times in the last few years. It is posted over and over during the FA signing period .  The post usually read something like this... " we didn't pursue those top tier CBs as Ballard prefers to build through the draft."  It just occurred to me that that makes no sense. What does how you spend your cap money , have to do with "building through the draft. " Yeah .. now and then a team trades picks to acquire an elite player.The Rams did so previous their last SB . But for the most part , every team values their draft picks. I don't see how Ballard's free agent approach has much to do at all with how he values his draft picks. 

[Superman]

8 hours ago, stitches said:

Here's a quote from Ballard on the secondary from the end of year presser after the season:

 

 

 

I guess... he doesn't see much urgency in addressing the secondary. We will rely on continuity and development of the young guys... #DelayedGratification

 

Thank you for this. He said it was rough because they were young. He didn't actually say he wanted to include more veterans in the secondary this year. In fact, he signals that the young players got a lot of experience from last season. On another occasion -- maybe at the Combine? -- he said something like 'once you've played half a season, you're not really a rookie anymore, we expect you to perform.' 

 

I think this is another situation where people heard what they wanted to hear. He said they were young last year, and the assumption was made that he would want to add a vet this year. Whoops. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

It doesn't matter if not even 1 person would say Colts are contenders...

 

But, if that's not the goal, what is?

 

And, when would that happen? Is there any indication that Colts are going forward on right track to get there?

 

Yes, Houston isn't a contender either but they got on right track already in very few years from a dumpster fire.

 

Do you get the point? Not 20 teams can be a contender, but only few of those 20 get in right track, and many just stay around the average all the time... And, Colts - apart from having hope in QB situation now - are just average in many other position groups in the roster. 

You aren't getting my point; he is the one that said, "people will cling to anything to keep the fantasy that we're contenders alive". I just responded to it by saying who ever said we were contenders. 

 

You just said "Yes, Houston isn't a contender either". That is all I have been saying, so you understand that at least.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

To push back young doesn’t mean they have a high enough ceiling to be a great starter. So when you go to long and hoping for a second year jump your taking a huge risk. Especially with a 7th round pick  I can’t remember if Dallas was drafted or not. Not to mention Dallas might not even be ready by camp. Brent’s hasn’t proved he can stay healthy.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I mean, we could win it or the Jags could. The Texans are facing a number 1 schedule this season, but even if these three teams finish the season within a game of eachother I still think the Texans is the best team - in part because they face a much stronger schedule than us.

That's fair, many think Houston is the best team in the South. I have never debated that, but the margin for error is close. 

[Solid84]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Thank you for this. He said it was rough because they were young. He didn't actually say he wanted to include more veterans in the secondary this year. In fact, he signals that the young players got a lot of experience from last season. On another occasion -- maybe at the Combine? -- he said something like 'once you've played half a season, you're not really a rookie anymore, we expect you to perform.' 

 

I think this is another situation where people heard what they wanted to hear. He said they were young last year, and the assumption was made that he would want to add a vet this year. Whoops. 

I don't think the assumption we'd add a veteran came from this. I think it came from the "wanting to minimize explosive plays against us". But, I'll concede this in a vacuum doesn't make it look like we'll add veteran help.

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Thank you for this. He said it was rough because they were young. He didn't actually say he wanted to include more veterans in the secondary this year. In fact, he signals that the young players got a lot of experience from last season. On another occasion -- maybe at the Combine? -- he said something like 'once you've played half a season, you're not really a rookie anymore, we expect you to perform.' 

 

I think this is another situation where people heard what they wanted to hear. He said they were young last year, and the assumption was made that he would want to add a vet this year. Whoops. 

The thing I keep coming back to is the effusive praise for Jaylon Jones and for the scout that made Ballard take him. They must really like him as a potential long-term starter? In addition to having invested high pick for Brents and he himself showing some promise early in the season... I am not that high on Jaylon, but if the GM is that high... I guess you can understand not wanting to stunt his growth by adding a vet who will take snaps away from him. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

12 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

This one was different because speed strip sacked the QB and the game was over. So there shouldn’t have been any more plays. We aren’t talking about just a bad call. Colts litterly ended the game.

That's the way every sport is, except may be in Chess, where two players play each other without anyone's arbitrary intervention and they both decide who ends up in winning or not in a gentleman's agreement. Even there in Chess, there are situations that play out similarly. 

 

Whenever a Sport has any factor that comes into play with different perspectives of players and referees, these games happen all the time. In most of the sports, every year, and we can come up with few such games from last year NFL season too. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, stitches said:

The thing I keep coming back to is the effusive praise for Jaylon Jones and for the scout that made Ballard take him. They must really like him as a potential long-term starter? In addition to having invested high pick for Brents and he himself showing some promise early in the season... I am not that high on Jaylon, but if the GM is that high... I guess you can understand not wanting to stunt his growth by adding a vet who will take snaps away from him. 

Chances are they are going to take another CB pretty high. So jones  will most likely be depth.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, AKB said:

Hey guys, just wanted to stop by and let you know I've had a change of heart. I slept on it. I'm content with our colts being .500 and paying top dollar at nonpremium spots to Ballard's personal projects and prizes. I am going to get his portrait tattooed on my left inner thigh in the next hour. Will post a photo here when it is done. 

 

I am also gonna put @csmopar 's @ name next to it. 

I want to get a Tattoo that says, 'Colts Greatest 9-8 team of all-time 2023' across my chest 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

That's the way every sport is, except may be in Chess, where two players play each other without anyone's arbitrary intervention and they both decide who ends up in winning or not in a gentleman's agreement. Even there in Chess, there are situations that play out similarly. 

 

Whenever a Sport has any factor that comes into play with different perspectives of players and referees, these games happen all the time. In most of the sports, every year, and we can come up with few such games from last year NFL season too. 

Most of the times when something like this happens it’s not on a play that ends the game. It could be on first or second down ect. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That's fair, many think Houston is the best team in the South. I have never debated that, but the margin for error is close. 

Same people would've said about Jax for few years until Houston overtook in play-off race, and then they say Houston is.

 

That's actually bad, because apart from Titans, Colts need to worry about two teams in the division now. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Ballards blind faith in players is a big reason for some of his failure.  If Jones and Flowers  are your backups you’re in good shape. The entire safety room is a joke right now. There were so many safeties on the market this should not be happening.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Same people would've said about Jax for few years until Houston overtook in play-off race, and then they say Houston is.

 

That's actually bad, because apart from Titans, Colts need to worry about two teams in the division now. 

I can still see the Jags being in that 9 win range. Trevor is legit good, they have a decent defense as well. When I look at the Colts and Texans, I see 10 wins and we really didn't make any huge splash in Free Agency. Maybe it is because I think AR will be good and because of Shane. I see the Jags right there as well. Texans should win 10, 10 is the measuring stick for these 3 teams IMO. Titans are finally the one's that are a hot mess, been a while but true. They still could even win 7 or 8 games.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Most of the times when something like this happens it’s not on a play that ends the game. It could be on first or second down ect. 

We will need to pour out all the data from all 32 teams to be sure of that.

 

You'd only remember Colts games, and Lions could bring up that Cowboys "Eligibility Receiver" game ..

 

I'm sure there were games that got to final plays at the very end of 4th quarter where penalty flags flew bringing first downs for the offense while defense could've won the game on one play, on one referee decision.

 

I'm sure 49ers could tell the same on one of those SBs where they just need to get one play done in favor against Mahomes...

 

As I said, you'd only remember Colts games. In reality, that didn't happen just for Colts, that happens every year. 

[Superman]

7 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

How would his roughly $30M a year effect keeping our other players over the length of his contract? 

 

It was a philosophical question. We're not trading for JJ, especially not with Pittman at $23m/year (although I'd point out that's only a 23% increase, and I'd argue JJ is worth the premium).

 

I guess this is your answer below... 

 

Quote

 

I'll go with spreading a singular huge contract around to build a SB caliber team. 

 

That's logical. This is how you build a good roster and manage the cap wisely to keep that roster together. You'll make the playoffs most years. It's basically what the Chiefs and Ravens are doing. 

 

I think there's one flaw in this approach. In any given year, there's a team like the Rams or Bucs from 3-4 years ago, or like the Browns or Eagles right now, spending cash way over cap, to try to push their way to the top of the league. They know they'll have to reset and get rid of some players in a couple years, but they hope to increase their odds to compete for a short period of time. And if they win a SB, then it's worth it.

 

The Chiefs have one of the most special QBs of all time. The Ravens have a two time MVP at QB. I would say both teams draft better than the Colts (especially the Ravens), and Steichen is still new but for right now I'd say they're both better coached as well. Their margin for error is much greater than ours. 

 

The way you offset having a $30m WR is to draft well multiple years in a row, have a good HC, and have a really good QB. And that just so happens to be the formula for success in the NFL in general. 

[Superman]

16 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I don't think the assumption we'd add a veteran came from this. I think it came from the "wanting to minimize explosive plays against us". But, I'll concede this in a vacuum doesn't make it look like we'll add veteran help.

 

That's fair. But if you add in the comments about Jones and getting Brents healthy and Dallis Flowers coming back, I still think it's a rosy interpretation. I could see adding a veteran at some point, depending on how the draft goes.

 

15 minutes ago, stitches said:

The thing I keep coming back to is the effusive praise for Jaylon Jones and for the scout that made Ballard take him. They must really like him as a potential long-term starter? In addition to having invested high pick for Brents and he himself showing some promise early in the season... I am not that high on Jaylon, but if the GM is that high... I guess you can understand not wanting to stunt his growth by adding a vet who will take snaps away from him. 

 

Jones, and Flowers coming back. I get wanting to give young guys the opportunity to grow and develop, and I definitely agree that this can only be done if they get meaningful reps. But personally, I would not be hanging my hat on guys like Jones and Flowers. Brents maybe, he was a 2nd rounder, but I think he's really grabby and undisciplined. Just like I wouldn't let our TE room prevent me from drafting a top tier TE prospect, I wouldn't let our DB group prevent me from a meaningful upgrade at corner. 

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's fair. But if you add in the comments about Jones and getting Brents healthy and Dallis Flowers coming back, I still think it's a rosy interpretation. I could see adding a veteran at some point, depending on how the draft goes.

 

 

Jones, and Flowers coming back. I get wanting to give young guys the opportunity to grow and develop, and I definitely agree that this can only be done if they get meaningful reps. But personally, I would not be hanging my hat on guys like Jones and Flowers. Brents maybe, he was a 2nd rounder, but I think he's really grabby and undisciplined. Just like I wouldn't let our TE room prevent me from drafting a top tier TE prospect, I wouldn't let our DB group prevent me from a meaningful upgrade at corner. 

Like with many things regarding our defense, I absolutely agree with you... I just am not sure if Ballard agrees and he's the one whose opinion is really important here.

[NewColtsFan]

36 minutes ago, AKB said:

i see your point but i don't think it covers the whole situation. all is better when you win, all is better when you hit on your top 2 picks. taking stroud and Anderson, whilst simultaneously winning the division in his yr one matters. also I believe that ranking was slightly outdated. 

I was only pointing out the randomness.  As Ballard likes to say, you also have to have a little luck.   Houston got a little luck, nothing wrong with that.  And they appear to have made nothing but good decisions in their 3rd and now 4th years.   They’ve done great.  
 

For what it’s worth, the last time PFF ranked GM’s, they had Ballard 14th.  So he’s squarely in the middle.   
 

There appears to be some level of consensus that Ballard is linked with AR.   He doesn’t need to be fired now, but his seat is warm.   And if AR doesn’t show improvement, or doesn’t ultimately work out,  Ballard’s seat could go from warm to hot pretty quickly. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Brent’s can’t stay healthy

 

Flowers  coming off Achilles. Takes while if at all to get the explosion back. Might not even be ready.

 

Jonas seventh round pick.

 

This is one of the worse  corner back rooms  in the league. Then add no safeties makes it the worst secondary in the league. There is no way Ballard can justify this.

[richard pallo]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

Like with many things regarding our defense, I absolutely agree with you... I just am not sure if Ballard agrees and he's the one whose opinion is really important here.

And the fact still remains that he did have trade talks regarding Sneed.  So I’m not entirely convinced he plans on starting two very young players with injury concerns as our two outside corners.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

And the fact still remains that he did have trade talks regarding Sneed.  So I’m not entirely convinced he plans on starting two very young players with injury concerns as our two outside corners.  

Mike Chappell said on his podcast that he wouldn’t say the sneed thing is dead. He is going to make 19 million this year. So if he can’t get an extension from another team with more guarantees he might as well stay.   He has a team so he really has no rush. 

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

And the fact still remains that he did have trade talks regarding Sneed.  So I’m not entirely convinced he plans on starting two very young players with injury concerns as our two outside corners.  

We don't really know just how deep those talks were... if there were any... 

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

We don't really know just how deep those talks were... if there were any... 

 

My thinking, he called Veach Monday of last week and asked if a 3rd and future 5th would do it, and Veach said he'd be in the running. Then he called Sneed's agent and asked what the price would be, and the agent said something like $84m for four years. And that was it.

[richard pallo]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Mike Chappell said on his podcast that he wouldn’t say the sneed thing is dead. He is going to make 19 million this year. So if he can’t get an extension from another team with more guarantees he might as well stay.  

I don’t think the Sneed thing is dead either.  I think Sneed’s team and Ballard’s team are huddling up and will be back negotiating again in the near future.  I think his agent wants a long term deal with more guaranteed money than the franchise tag offers.  Chance of injury is always out there.  I still think he gets traded.  Hopefully to the Colts.

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

My thinking, he called Veach Monday of last week and asked if a 3rd and future 5th would do it, and Veach said he'd be in the running. Then he called Sneed's agent and asked what the price would be, and the agent said something like $84m for four years. And that was it.

Probably ... and then the agent released the info about the Colts deal being close to done to reporters in order to create more leverage in further negotiations either with the Chiefs or with other teams that are interested. and the reporters who were willing to print/tweet info coming from an agent without confirmation from the team(because the Ballard's Colts do NOT confirm that type of things before it's DONE DONE), did that, while the more experienced ones waited for confirmation from the team and never got it... 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

All I know is nothing makes sense this offseason. One of the worst off seasons I can remember in a long time.

[richard pallo]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

My thinking, he called Veach Monday of last week and asked if a 3rd and future 5th would do it, and Veach said he'd be in the running. Then he called Sneed's agent and asked what the price would be, and the agent said something like $84m for four years. And that was it.

Just my opinion of course but I think Ballard is willing to find a number between $20-22m.  I can’t believe when you are that close a compromise can’t be achieved.  Does he really want to risk playing on the tag.  It’s a long season.  I think he wants the longer deal with more guaranteed.  I think getting a deal done with the Colts is a real possibility.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I think local media might have a chance to talk to Ballard and Steichen next week at the owners meetings. If I remember they have talked to them in the past.

[RollerColt]

Let’s not forget that one of the reasons Houston was able to retool and rebound was because they essentially had a fire sale a few seasons ago and amassed a lot of high round picks, which they used to regain lost talent. 

[GoColts8818]

33 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

My thinking, he called Veach Monday of last week and asked if a 3rd and future 5th would do it, and Veach said he'd be in the running. Then he called Sneed's agent and asked what the price would be, and the agent said something like $84m for four years. And that was it.

That’s pretty much what Holder eluded too in his interview with JMV and Holder said those kinds of talks happen all the time and most people in NFL circles don’t consider those real trade talks which is why Schefter said what he said.

 

He also said when they decided to move on from Sneed and didn’t get Hunter they pivoted to plan B which was to bring all their guys back and said had they landed Hunter then Moore would have been allowed to walk for sure and perhaps Grover as well.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Colts have always needed an upgrade here and there. Saying that I don’t ever remember a position group under Ballard ever being this big of a weakness. Outside of QB I just don’t remember having this big of a weakness.

[BeanDiasucci]

7 hours ago, Myles said:

We do not know what AR will be like yet.  He may win 11 games or he may win 6 games.  

And we don't know how durable he will be, although we're certainly hoping very much that last season was a fluke. One of the downsides of having started only 13 games in college is that the sample size for Richardson proving his durability is smaller than most college quarterbacks. I heard a college coach talking this winter about what he looks for in the transfer portal - players with proven production and durability over players with impressive athletic potential who haven't played as much. He said that a risk he doesn't like with guys who haven't as much is that they haven't demonstrated their ability to remain healthy through a season or multiple seasons. That makes some sense to me. 

[AKB]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I want to get a Tattoo that says, 'Colts Greatest 9-8 team of all-time 2023' across my chest 

HANG A BANNER! WE BEATH THE CHIEFS

[GoColts8818]

7 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

And we don't know how durable he will be, although we're certainly hoping very much that last season was a fluke. One of the downsides of having started only 13 games in college is that the sample size for Richardson proving his durability is smaller than most college quarterbacks. I heard a college coach talking this winter about what he looks for in the transfer portal - players with proven production and durability over players with impressive athletic potential who haven't played as much. He said that a risk he doesn't like with guys who haven't as much is that they haven't demonstrated their ability to remain healthy through a season or multiple seasons. That makes some sense to me. 

Yet some are freaking out and saying the Colts can’t depend on Brents because he’s injury prone but attacking any argument that dares to question if we know about Richardson yet…

[AKB]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

I was only pointing out the randomness.  As Ballard likes to say, you also have to have a little luck.   Houston got a little luck, nothing wrong with that.  And they appear to have made nothing but good decisions in their 3rd and now 4th years.   They’ve done great.  
 

For what it’s worth, the last time PFF ranked GM’s, they had Ballard 14th.  So he’s squarely in the middle.   
 

There appears to be some level of consensus that Ballard is linked with AR.   He doesn’t need to be fired now, but his seat is warm.   And if AR doesn’t show improvement, or doesn’t ultimately work out,  Ballard’s seat could go from warm to hot pretty quickly. 

i don't entirely disagree but luck is only part of it. they got their franchise QB, and then traded up for their Franchise edge, two of the most important positions in football..