Colts offseason discussion / Ballard Grievances (merge)

[ColtStrong2013]

3 hours ago, AustexColt said:

He is on the clock.

we’re all on the clock if you want to get real deep… 

[OLD FAN MAN]

2 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

I think we already have a thread dedicated to Ballard bashing.

mods made this one too

[Yoshinator]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

Ballard spent his whole tenure with the Colts telling us "it's not about one guy" and here we are 7 years later... Ballard betting his job on the development and play of one guy. 

Yep. Pretty ironic it happened this way. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

Ballard spent his whole tenure with the Colts telling us "it's not about one guy" and here we are 7 years later... Ballard betting his job on the development and play of one guy. 

That’s an impressive way to twist Ballard’s meaning, but go on….  
 

Here’s something I’ve been sitting on for a few years but this seems like a good time to remind you.   Back in 2022, when Ballard drafted Pierce, Woods, Raimann and Cross on Day 2 you made a post that weekend that has stuck with me all this time.  
 

You crucified Ballard because Tenn drafted Malik Willis and and Atlanta drafted Desmond Ritter.  They were right and Ballard was wrong and you just crushed Ballard.   I didn’t like the post then and I don’t think it aged well since.   Tenn has Levis and Atl has Cousins.  
 

Look we’ve all made bad posts, me especially.   It comes with the territory of posting on internet fan message boards.  The key is, who owns it, and who doesn’t.  Will you own that wasn’t a good post for you, or not?  

[csmopar]

[#12.]

Pre-Peyton, Indianapolis was a basketball city, by a mile.  It then did a 180, becoming a football city, by a mile.

 

The post-Luck - it's so tired.  Ballard is boring people to death, doing his best to turn Indy back into a basketball city.

[stitches]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

That’s an impressive way to twist Ballard’s meaning, but go on….  
 

Oh I know perfectly well what he meant and there is no twisting in his words. The more contentious part of my post is whether he indeed is relying on one player to now make the difference for him. I think all the puff pieces (Nate Atkins, Holder) we've had trying to explain how what he's doing (7th year in a row) is good, while the opponents are losing talent(conveniently omitting to assess if the lost talent is better than the gained talent), are making a pretty good case for the essence of my post - Ballard's main hope for this team to be better next year is AR. Which is pretty ironic.

 

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Here’s something I’ve been sitting on for a few years but this seems like a good time to remind you.   Back in 2022, when Ballard drafted Pierce, Woods, Raimann and Cross on Day 2 you made a post that weekend that has stuck with me all this time.  
 

Damn... I guess now that the sad emoji is out you decided it's time to open the vault with long held inside gripes. 

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

You crucified Ballard because Tenn drafted Malik Willis and and Atlanta drafted Desmond Ritter.  They were right and Ballard was wrong and you just crushed Ballard.   I didn’t like the post then and I don’t think it aged well since.   Tenn has Levis and Atl has Cousins.  
 

Look we’ve all made bad posts, me especially.   It comes with the territory of posting on internet fan message boards.  The key is, who owns it, and who doesn’t.  Will you own that wasn’t a good post for you, or not?  

I crucified Ballard? I mean... I guess I will have to rely on your memory here and hope they are better than mine and not at all influenced by grudges or inability to take criticism of ... the team's GM. I don't have that memory because my memory is that at the time I actually liked a lot of those picks. Notice, this is not to be mistaken with me wishing he'd take a shot on one of those QBs in the 3d. And I don't consider that a mistake, either. Both Tennessee and ATL made the right decision to take a shot on a talented QB when they knew they didn't have their long-term guy on the roster. It didn't work for them... it's normal, a lot of picks don't work out and not just at QB and it doesn't automatically make the decision wrong or a mistake. This is something you don't seem to understand - the process is much more important than the low level details. I've said a ton of times - I care about what Ballard does on a philosophical level, much more than the specifics... I defer a lot to him and the scouting department on specific players. And I don't expect every player to hit... and I don't consider every miss a mistake. 

 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

11 hours ago, stitches said:

Ballard spent his whole tenure with the Colts telling us "it's not about one guy" and here we are 7 years later... Ballard betting his job on the development and play of one guy. 

I guess narratives change... 

 

Seriously, I think Ballard hasn't changed. He's not betting on AR, neither his job relies on AR's success.

 

Right or wrong, Irsay believes in Ballard so much and Ballard finds no rush in changing his philosophy or tweaking some of his tactics in off-season.

 

I think Ballard will continue to build the roster his own way, slow and steady, via draft and keeping mostly the players he drafts. Whether that leads to success, even if AR works out well, remains to be seen as QB success alone doesn't win a Super Bowl. (That's a very major factor but even Mahomes sometimes needs a strong roster and some key players on offense and defense around him).

 

Whether Ballard achieves success or same status quo remains to be seen, and even if not, I think Irsay will have to find many things in disagreement with Ballard in order to fire him. 

[stitches]

9 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

I guess narratives change... 

 

Seriously, I think Ballard hasn't changed. He's not betting on AR, neither his job relies on AR's success.

 

Right or wrong, Irsay believes in Ballard so much and Ballard finds no rush in changing his philosophy or tweaking some of his tactics in off-season.

 

I think Ballard will continue to build the roster his own way, slow and steady, via draft and keeping mostly the players he drafts. Whether that leads to success, even if AR works out well, remains to be seen as QB success alone doesn't win a Super Bowl. (That's a very major factor but even Mahomes sometimes needs a strong roster and some key players on offense and defense around him).

 

Whether Ballard achieves success or same status quo remains to be seen, and even if not, I think Irsay will have to find many things in disagreement with Ballard in order to fire him. 

I think if AR doesn't look like a franchise QB and the Colts miss the playoffs again(i.e. no improvement), Ballard is as good as gone. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

6 hours ago, csmopar said:

Slow it down so I can read the word 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

11 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think if AR doesn't look like a franchise QB and the Colts miss the playoffs again(i.e. no improvement), Ballard is as good as gone. 

That seems to be the sentiment for the majority here, even those who ardently defend Ballard every awaken hour here says that (I believe that's just in jest), but I don't think that will be the case.

 

Just my opinion. But, let's not go there, let's hope AR becomes great, gives some great seasons for Colts. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

34 minutes ago, stitches said:

 Both Tennessee and ATL made the right decision to take a shot on a talented QB when they knew they didn't have their long-term guy on the roster. It didn't work for them... it's normal, a lot of picks don't work out and not just at QB and it doesn't automatically make the decision wrong or a mistake. This is something you don't seem to understand - the process is much more important than the low level details. I've said a ton of times - I care about what Ballard does on a philosophical level, much more than the specifics... I defer a lot to him and the scouting department on specific players. And I don't expect every player to hit... and I don't consider every miss a mistake. 

 

Thank You, these are all very important points we need to keep reminding ourselves, especially during the Draft Season. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

32 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think if AR doesn't look like a franchise QB and the Colts miss the playoffs again(i.e. no improvement), Ballard is as good as gone. 

To be clear, to get back to your original point, I agree that Ballard seems to be banking on AR's success to elevate the roster because who other difference-maker is in the roster who can win you all play-off games? I agree, in that sense, he's relying on AR to do very very well, but I'd also say that'd be too much for the young QB's shoulders.

 

Also, while agreeing above, IMHO, AR's success or failure doesn't decide Ballard's tenure. As I said, Irsay will have to find many more things in disagreement with Ballard in order to fire him. 

[stitches]

1 minute ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

To be clear, to get back to your original point, I agree that Ballard seems to be banking on AR's success to elevate the roster because who other difference-maker is in the roster than can win you all play-off games? I agree, in that sense, he's relying on AR to do very very well, but I'd also say that'd be too much for the young QB's shoulders.

 

Also, while agreeing above, IMHO, AR's success or failure doesn't decide Ballard's tenure. As I said, Irsay will have to find many more things in disagreement with Ballard in order to fire him. 

I hope we don't get to see if I'm right in my assessment.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Oh I know perfectly well what he meant and there is no twisting in his words. The more contentious part of my post is whether he indeed is relying on one player to now make the difference for him. I think all the puff pieces (Nate Atkins, Holder) we've had trying to explain how what he's doing (7th year in a row) is good, while the opponents are losing talent(conveniently omitting to assess if the lost talent is better than the gained talent), are making a pretty good case for the essence of my post - Ballard's main hope for this team to be better next year is AR. Which is pretty ironic.

 

Damn... I guess now that the sad emoji is out you decided it's time to open the vault with long held inside gripes. 

I crucified Ballard? I mean... I guess I will have to rely on your memory here and hope they are better than mine and not at all influenced by grudges or inability to take criticism of ... the team's GM. I don't have that memory because my memory is that at the time I actually liked a lot of those picks. Notice, this is not to be mistaken with me wishing he'd take a shot on one of those QBs in the 3d. And I don't consider that a mistake, either. Both Tennessee and ATL made the right decision to take a shot on a talented QB when they knew they didn't have their long-term guy on the roster. It didn't work for them... it's normal, a lot of picks don't work out and not just at QB and it doesn't automatically make the decision wrong or a mistake. This is something you don't seem to understand - the process is much more important than the low level details. I've said a ton of times - I care about what Ballard does on a philosophical level, much more than the specifics... I defer a lot to him and the scouting department on specific players. And I don't expect every player to hit... and I don't consider every miss a mistake. 

 

So….  Apparently, the answer to my question about owning a bad post is “no”.   Ok, your call.   
 

As for not liking “crucified” how about you were as angry as I’ve ever seen you.  That’s why that post stuck with me since then.   
 

As for everything else, I guess we can agree to disagree,  and leave it there.  

[stitches]

57 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

So….  Apparently, the answer to my question about owning a bad post is “no”.   Ok, your call.   
 

Oh I've owned a ton bad posts/opinions/evaluations here. Just not... this supposed one. 

57 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

As for not liking “crucified” how about you were as angry as I’ve ever seen you.  That’s why that post stuck with me since then.   

I mean I showed you two posts where I was pretty happy with Ballard about that draft and you have showed me .... nothing besides your supposed memories. I have no idea how I can comment or own something I don't remember happening... or hell even if it happened, I don't know the exact content so I'd know if I should "own it" as a bad post. I'm not saying I haven't made an "angry" post about Ballard not picking a QB. I just don't remember. I haven't been happy with Ballard about not drafting a QB pretty much every single year since Luck retired until last year. This is nothing new. And I don't think any of my opinions in that vein were "wrong" or "bad". I happy to stand with them even at this point. 

 

About as angry as you've seen me. I think the angriest I've been on this forum is actually with you. But that's a different topic. 

57 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

As for everything else, I guess we can agree to disagree,  and leave it there.  

Word.

[NewColtsFan]

17 minutes ago, stitches said:

Oh I've owned a ton bad posts/opinions/evaluations here. Just not... this supposed one. 

I mean I showed you two posts where I was pretty happy with Ballard about that draft and you have showed me .... nothing besides your supposed memories. I have no idea how I can comment or own something I don't remember happening... or hell even if it happened, I don't know the exact content so I'd know if I should "own it" as a bad post. I'm not saying I haven't made an "angry" post about Ballard not picking a QB. I just don't remember. I haven't been happy with Ballard about not drafting a QB pretty much every single year since Luck retired until last year. This is nothing new. And I don't think any of my opinions in that vein were "wrong" or "bad". I happy to stand with them even at this point. 

 

About as angry as you've seen me. I think the angriest I've been on this forum is actually with you. But that's a different topic. 

Word.

The angriest you’ve been in this forum is with me?    That’s news to me.   Feel free to write me a private note and I’ll get back to you.   It may take about a day.   I’m off to sleep now, and most of my tomorrow is booked.  But I will respond.  I’m certainly curious why the angriest you’ve ever been is with me.  

[Solid84]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

That’s an impressive way to twist Ballard’s meaning, but go on….  
 

Here’s something I’ve been sitting on for a few years but this seems like a good time to remind you.   Back in 2022, when Ballard drafted Pierce, Woods, Raimann and Cross on Day 2 you made a post that weekend that has stuck with me all this time.  
 

You crucified Ballard because Tenn drafted Malik Willis and and Atlanta drafted Desmond Ritter.  They were right and Ballard was wrong and you just crushed Ballard.   I didn’t like the post then and I don’t think it aged well since.   Tenn has Levis and Atl has Cousins.  
 

Look we’ve all made bad posts, me especially.   It comes with the territory of posting on internet fan message boards.  The key is, who owns it, and who doesn’t.  Will you own that wasn’t a good post for you, or not?  

I thought hindsight was a no-no?

 

My guess is @stitches gripe with Ballard over not taking a shot at a QB is exactly that - not taking a shot at a QB. It’s not necessarily about Willis or Ridder. It took waaay too long for the Colts to start throwing darts at that position after Luck retired. If you ask Ballard right now I think he’d 100% agree with that. 

[w87r]

2 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I thought hindsight was a no-no?

 

My guess is @stitches gripe with Ballard over not taking a shot at a QB is exactly that - not taking a shot at a QB. It’s not necessarily about Willis or Ridder. It took waaay too long for the Colts to start throwing darts at that position after Luck retired. If you ask Ballard right now I think he’d 100% agree with that. 

If those 2 are considered dart throws as 3rd rounders.

 

Wouldn't Jacob Eason in the 4th be considered one as well? 

 

I wouldn't consider Ehlinger one(2021 6th round), but really what is the difference in mid to late round QB prospects. Aren't they all dart throws after round 1? 

 

 

Luck retired prior to season in 2019, post draft.

 

Eason drafted in 2020 draft, less than a year after Luck retired. Literally couldn't of thrown a dart any quicker than that.

 

 

Suppose a big deal will be made about the difference of being a 3rd or 4th round pick. 

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, w87r said:

If those 2 are considered dart throws as 3rd rounders.

 

Wouldn't Jacob Eason in the 4th be considered one as well? 

 

I wouldn't consider Ehlinger one(2021 6th round), but really what is the difference in mid to late round QB prospects. Aren't they all dart throws after round 1? 

 

 

Luck retired prior to season in 2019, post draft.

 

Eason drafted in 2020 draft, less than a year after Luck retired. Literally couldn't of thrown a dart any quicker than that.

 

 

Suppose a big deal will be made about the difference of being a 3rd or 4th round pick. 

I liked the dart throw at Eason and praised Ballard for it, although my true preference was for us to go for a QB in the 1st. The Eason pick was something, but was not enough.

[w87r]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

I liked the dart throw at Eason and praised Ballard for it, although my true preference was for us to go for a QB in the 1st. The Eason pick was something, but was not enough.

Whether it was enough or not isn't the point.

 

I responded to a post that said it took way to long to throw a dart after Luck retired.

 

 

Literally happened in the first possible draft afterwards.  

 

 

That's not even taking into consideration the dart throw on Brisssett, 8 days after Luck retired.

[BlackTiger]

Eason was never going to be more than a backup

[w87r]

1 minute ago, BlackTiger said:

Eason was never going to be more than a backup

Neither was Tom Brady.

 

 

Fact is you don't know what they will be, till they get in your system.

[Solid84]

38 minutes ago, w87r said:

If those 2 are considered dart throws as 3rd rounders.

 

Wouldn't Jacob Eason in the 4th be considered one as well? 

 

I wouldn't consider Ehlinger one(2021 6th round), but really what is the difference in mid to late round QB prospects. Aren't they all dart throws after round 1? 

 

 

Luck retired prior to season in 2019, post draft.

 

Eason drafted in 2020 draft, less than a year after Luck retired. Literally couldn't of thrown a dart any quicker than that.

 

 

Suppose a big deal will be made about the difference of being a 3rd or 4th round pick. 

To be fair, none of the QBs in that draft class were worth higher than a 3rd round pick. I’m just of the opinion you pick a QB until you hit or you’re currently developing a young QB as your franchise QB. 
 

Both Ridder and Willis got a shot at the starting job, Eason was always intended as a backup. I think there’s a big difference. 
 

Suppose a big deal will be made about Ridder and Willis being 3rd rounders. 

[dw49]

On 3/11/2024 at 9:49 AM, dw49 said:

Gonna post this in this thread also...

 

OK .... take this to the bank. If you are expecting the Colts to sign a top safety , cb or edge , it is not going to happen. We will overpay for a few of our own free agents and not participate in the early "scramble" for the top free agents. Not saying we might not make a good "secondary" signing or 2 but forget about the elite free agents.

 

I've made some good posts and bad posts in my many years on this board. This , IMO , was a really good call. You could argue the "overpay" issue , but all these resigning of our own players with the exception of Pittman included the players testing the FA market. Thus we can assume that we paid top of the market for them. I would also say that Pittman was not anything close to a "home team discount." 

[BlackTiger]

24 minutes ago, w87r said:

Neither was Tom Brady.

 

Patriots got lucky 24 years ago, its not a blue print to follow.  Eason was always going to be a backup.

 

You could get lucky and get a good starter out of someone like Brady or Purdy, but you might also keep looking for decades.  

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I thought hindsight was a no-no?

 

My guess is @stitches gripe with Ballard over not taking a shot at a QB is exactly that - not taking a shot at a QB. It’s not necessarily about Willis or Ridder. It took waaay too long for the Colts to start throwing darts at that position after Luck retired. If you ask Ballard right now I think he’d 100% agree with that. 

Hindsight?    If you read my post, I said I didn’t like his post the night he wrote it.  
 

As for Ballard not picking a QB until 2023, I don’t know why you’d think he’d now agree that he should’ve gone after a QB sooner?   I think he believes he did what he did for all the right reasons.  The team was built to win then if he could only get the right vet QB.   Those reasons haven’t changed.   Ballard publicly said in Jan things haven’t gone according to plan because he couldn’t get the QB right.   But Irsay supported those plans at the time.  
 

We see this differently.  

[w87r]

10 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

To be fair, non of the QBs in that draft class were worth a higher pick than 3rd. I’m just of the opinion you pick a QB until you hit or if you’re currently developing a young QB as your franchise QB. 
 

Both Ridder and Willis got a shot at the starting job, Eason was always intended as a backup. I think there’s a big difference. 
 

Suppose a big deal will be made about Ridder and Willis being 3rd rounders. 

There's no difference.

 

 

I fully didn't expect you to acknowledge the facts you were just faced with, and for you to try and move the goal post. A dart throw is a dart throw. I don't care if it's a 3rd or 4th rounder. 

[Solid84]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Hindsight?    If you read my post, I said I didn’t like his post the night he wrote it.  
 

As for Ballard not picking a QB until 2023, I don’t know why you’d think he’d now agree that he should’ve gone after a QB sooner?   I think he believes he did what he did for all the right reasons.  The team was built to win then if he could only get the right vet QB.   Those reasons haven’t changed.   Ballard publicly said in Jan things haven’t gone according to plan because he couldn’t get the QB right.   But Irsay supported those plans at the time.  
 

We see this differently.  

You said his post didn’t age well, I read that as you thought it didn’t age well because of Ridder’s and Willis’ play. Was that misinterpreted?

[Solid84]

8 minutes ago, w87r said:

There's no difference.

 

 

I fully didn't expect you to acknowledge the facts you were just faced with, and for you to try and move the goal post. A dart throw is a dart throw. I don't care if it's a 3rd or 4th rounder. 

I gave you my opinion - intent is important to me at least. 
 

You didn’t like it and here comes the petty insults. Have fun with that. 

[John Hammonds]

I'd like to reiterate my desire for the season to get started.

This thread has completed degenerated from a Ballard Grievance thread into a schoolyard sandbox name-calling fistfight.

You suck!  No, you suck more!  Well, you suck infinity!  Well, you suck infinity plus one!

 

Good grief, can we get the season started, and put an end to this?

[shasta519]

14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

That’s an impressive way to twist Ballard’s meaning, but go on….  
 

Here’s something I’ve been sitting on for a few years but this seems like a good time to remind you.   Back in 2022, when Ballard drafted Pierce, Woods, Raimann and Cross on Day 2 you made a post that weekend that has stuck with me all this time.  
 

You crucified Ballard because Tenn drafted Malik Willis and and Atlanta drafted Desmond Ritter.  They were right and Ballard was wrong and you just crushed Ballard.   I didn’t like the post then and I don’t think it aged well since.   Tenn has Levis and Atl has Cousins.  
 

Look we’ve all made bad posts, me especially.   It comes with the territory of posting on internet fan message boards.  The key is, who owns it, and who doesn’t.  Will you own that wasn’t a good post for you, or not?  

That’s not really twisting what Ballard said. It’s actually what he did say. It was an organizational philosophy and he meant it. And it seemed to influence future decisions. 
 

But the reason that quote gets brought up is because many Colts have and still do use the Luck retiring excuse as to why Ballard hasn’t been successful. And these are Ballard’s own words basically saying that it’s not an excuse. 

[BlackTiger]

15 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I'd like to reiterate my desire for the season to get started.

Its just a boring off season for the team where FA gave us almost nothing to talk about.  The only thing to talk about is fighting over if we should have done more or not.  

[w87r]

Just now, Solid84 said:

I gave you my opinion - intent is important to me at least. 
 

You didn’t like it and here comes the petty insults. Have fun with that. 

I didn't like it? I couldn't care less, I expected it.

 

Where was the insult? Lol 

 

What are you even talking about, a hole got poked in your narrative and you moved the goal post.  That's not a petty insult, that's an accurate description of what happened.

 

So quick to throw shade and hate towards Ballard for 80 some pages, but can't handle 1-2 post of getting holes poked in your narrative and called out for it.

 

 

As far as intent, if Tennessee and Atlanta intended for Willis and Ridder to be starters, then they had extremely bad evaluations. As the Titans drafted a new QB a year later and started Dobbs over Willis when presented the opportunity. Falcons moved onto Cousins and traded Ridder.

 

 

I think it's more accurate to say, they hoped they could become their starter long term at some point. Same with the Colts, they would've loved for Eason to get here and show he could be the starter in year 2 or 3. You never know till they get in your system and start working.

 

Bottom line is all 3 dart throws were unsuccessful. 

[NewColtsFan]

35 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

You said his post didn’t age well, I read that as you thought it didn’t age well because of Ridder’s and Willis’ play. Was that misinterpreted?

No.  That’s correct.   And I’m not aware of any rule about no hindsight.   Hindsight is what is often discussed here.   Why did Ballard draft this guy in 2018?   Why didn’t Ballard trade up for a QB in any given year.  Why did Ballard pay to keep JT?    Dont we have a thread devoted to Ballard complaints?   Isn’t that hindsight?   

[BlackTiger]

16 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

we’re all on the clock if you want to get real deep… 

That was one of my favorite sayings from Chuck Pagano.

[BlackTiger]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Dont we have a thread devoted to Ballard complaints?

This is that thread...

[GoColts8818]

I think some are confusing people not seeing the world the way they do as people insulting them and attacking them.  People disagreeing with you and explaining why isn’t attacking someone.  That’s not to say there hasn’t been attacking going on in this thread.  There has been.  I also think people are getting stuck on all or nothing thinking meaning if you don’t think something sucks completely it means you love it and vice versa.  

[Solid84]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

No.  That’s correct.   And I’m not aware if any rule about no hindsight.   Hindsight is what is often discussed here.   Why did Ballard draft this guy in 2018?   Why didn’t Ballard trade up for a QB in any given year.  Why did Ballard pay to keep JT?    Dont we have a thread devoted to Ballard complaints?   Isn’t that hindsight?   

There is no rule about it, I just thought it funny you using hindsight when you call people (incl. me) out for using it. Pot meet kettle and all that. 

[BlackTiger]

I think some are forgetting that this thread is meant to be complaints about Ballard lol.  This is where people who are negative about the gm are supposed to post.  Nothing is going to change their minds now.  We didnt even have much current news to talk about.

 

I have not even said much about him but if he got fired today Id be ok with it too.  We have not won anything