Colts offseason discussion / Ballard Grievances (merge)

[AKB]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

The most important is the one we spend big on at the respective moment. When we take a FS in the first, it's the FS like Earl Thomas was in the Seahawks Legion of Boom. When we drafted Leonard high and later gave him the big bucks it was the Will linebacker that's most important. When we spent a good first and big money on Buckner, it was the 3-Tech that's most important.

 

For whatever it's worth, IMO there are multiple positions that can make substantial difference for a defense, almost no matter what system is used. But for ours specifically, IMO the defining characteristic is rushing 4, not blitzing and trying to deny the deep ball. Trying to deny the deep ball can be done through scheming -dropping deep, giving cushion to receivers, etc. Or it can be done with a dominant ballhawking free safety(but those are just so freaking rare...). What you cannot scheme up is pressure, especially when you don't blitz so, in my opinion, if you absolutely need something in this defense, no questions asked, it's pass-rushers. Both at DE and DT(3Tech). If you are not going to blitz, you need to be able to create pressure with 4. So that 4(and by extension the whole rotation of 7-8 players) needs to be able to disrupt the passer. And herein lies the biggest problem for Ballard's Colts - for the entirety of his tenure with the Colts, we have been unable to create consistent pressure and disrupt the passer.

but but but he drafted paye and dayo!

 

why ? because we literally didn't have a pass rush and he had no choice but to go back to back DE

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, AKB said:

but but but he drafted paye and dayo!

 

why ? because we literally didn't have a pass rush and he had no choice but to go back to back DE

And both Paye and Dayo have been good players when they’ve been healthy.   Do you want to say it’s Ballard’s fault they haven’t been healthy more often?  

[ShuteAt168]

19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I produced none.   WRONG AGAIN!!

 

Ballard has publicly said Indianapolis is not a destination location for the majority of top free agents.  That for the Colts to sign them, they’ve got to pay more than the Colts want.   If you don’t like the answer, take it up with Ballard.  He said it.  
 

You often misquote me.   Not a good quality for a man in your profession.  But there’s always some excuse. 
 

As for you racing around and giving me laughing emoji’s on my posts, please, be my guest.  You’re not the first poster to try it.  Others have and they all failed.  
 

Look…. I don’t care that you don’t like Chris Ballard.  You’re not alone.  Plenty of posters here feel the same way.  I care that you can’t make better arguments.  Considering your profession I’d expect better.   I covered 8 professional teams and four major universities.  I’ve interviewed well over a dozen GMs or ADs.   I think my admiration of Ballard goes far beyond being a “simp”.   
 

But you’re free to think otherwise…. 

Oh, well, maybe I’m wrong. Post that link where CB said players don’t want to come to Indy or that Indy has to overpay them. I can’t read everything so I’d honestly love to see the video or article. Thanks. 

[Solid84]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

And both Paye and Dayo have been good players when they’ve been healthy.   Do you want to say it’s Ballard’s fault they haven’t been healthy more often?  

Paye is a run stopper and Dayo is a rotational guy. A 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder. When we needed pass rush this is what we got. 
 

I still have hope (though not much) they can turn out to be good pass rushers, but right now both look like guys we should’ve gotten in the 3rd round. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, ShuteAt168 said:

Oh, well, maybe I’m wrong. Post that link where CB said players don’t want to come to Indy or that Indy has to overpay them. I can’t read everything so I’d honestly love to see the video or article. Thanks. 

As I said the last time you asked that, I’m terrible at finding specific links….   That’s why you referenced there’s always something.   Sorry I can’t help.  

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

Lol. Funny, you always demand facts from others and you get called on for some evidence and you, who have covered eight GMs and four NFL teams and four moon landings and the true Bigfoot discovery, can’t Google a link? Just take your loss and pull the rip cord. No Colt front office member ever said it. Lol 

I don't think Indianapolis as a city or the franchise have any significant hindrance to attract top free agents. I think Ballard's approach to free agency and his stated(repeatedly) philosophy of "not paying B players A money", setting a limit on offers beforehand and not going over it, his reluctance to get into bidding wars, etc is much more responsible for the Colts' inability to get top FAs. 

 

With all that said I don't necessarily disagree with that philosophy. My biggest gripe with Ballard has been with the areas he focuses his attention to much more than him not getting the top of the market FAs.

[NewColtsFan]

20 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Paye is a run stopper and Dayo is a rotational guy. A 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder. When we needed pass rush this is what we got. 
 

I still have hope (though not much) they can turn out to be good pass rushers, but right now both look like guys we should’ve gotten in the 3rd round. 

Huh?   
 

This year Paye had 8 sacks and Dayo had either 9 or 11.  It depends on the Stat provider.  I think PFF has 9 and the Colts show 11, or vice versa.   Those are pretty good numbers.  

[NewColtsFan]

22 hours ago, csmopar said:

It is fact. You do understand where the money to pay player salaries and such comes from right? I mean it’s right there in the CBA…

 

the league basically places the money in an escrow account every year directly from the league, which is a portion of the revenue set aside for player salaries from the leagues various sources(tv deals for example). It never touches the owners pockets first.  Jim Irsay could have only 10 cents in his account and it wouldn’t matter when it comes to player salaries. 

yes, guaranteed monies and such have to be put in upfront but if you read the fine print, that money is basically reimbursed the to the team the year it’s paid out. So 2025 guarantees would be paid back to the team in 2025 from the player salaries fund. 
 

and yes, I’ve linked it every year for the past 5-6 years. Ever since the beginning of the Ballard era, which seems to be when this notion of Irsay not having cash for this or that came up as a rationale for not signing big name FA. It’s not though when one actually looks up how that all works. 

My apologies.   You clearly understand this material far far better than I ever realized.  And far better than the vast majority of posters here.  And far, FAR better than I do, though that’s a low bar to clear as I’ve proven these last few days.  
 

Mad props to you!   Honestly.   Sincerely!   
 

Next time you come across that document, if you could either post it or send it to me privately, whichever you prefer…. I’d love to see it.   At your convenience.  
 

Many thanks.  
 

NCF

 

[csmopar]

6 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

All you folks psycho-babbling about free agency and the front office not making splashes……please remember that it takes two to tango!

 

Polian didn’t sign high priced big name free agents…..

 

Grigson didn’t either…..

 

And neither has Ballard…..

 

Two potential take aways, maybe those high priced big names players just didn’t want to play in Naptown? Maybe the Owner doesn’t want to overpay those guys….

 

But hey, if you want to raise your blood pressure over Ballard not signing a guy you think he should then go right ahead!

 

Grigson did… he over paid for old washed up FA, Andre Johnson for example?  
 

His best signing was Frank Gore.  

[csmopar]

I vote we close this thread and start a new one for actual Colts FA news as this one seems to have gone off the rails with no hope of getting back to topic.

 

in fact, I’ll go start it now:

[csmopar]

 

[Solid84]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Huh?   
 

This year Paye had 8 sacks and Dayo had either 9 or 11.  It depends on the Stat provider.  I think PFF has 9 and the Colts show 11, or vice versa.   Those are pretty good numbers.  

Paye also had 28 total pressures and Dayo had 29. That’s terrible. 
 

Lewis had 44, Ebukam 48 and Buckner 52. 
 

Micah Parsons had over 100. 

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, Solid84 said:

Paye also had 28 total pressures and Dayo had 29. That’s terrible. 
 

Lewis had 44, Ebukam 48 and Buckner 52. 
 

Micah Parsons had over 100. 

Why do you think Ballard hired Charlie Partridge?   To make every DL better.  
 

Just the way the Colts hired Tony Sporano to make the OL better.   And he did. 

[Solid84]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Why do you think Ballard hired Charlie Partridge?   To make every DL better.  
 

Just the way the Colts hired Tony Sporano to make the OL better.   And he did. 

Difference is the OL had already had top of the league play and the hope was Sparano could make them play up to that level again. 
 

The DL only have a history of bottom third of the league in pressures. There’s nothing that shows they can play better than that. 
 

To me, the hiring of Patridge is a desperate attempt by Ballard and Steichen to get more from a position group there’s been invested waaay too much in without anything to show for it. I fully expect more of the same. 

[NewColtsFan]

19 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Difference is the OL had already had top of the league play and the hope was Sparano could make them play up to that level again. 
 

The DL only have a history of bottom third of the league in pressures. There’s nothing that shows they can play better than that. 
 

To me, the hiring of Patridge is a desperate attempt by Ballard and Steichen to get more from a position group there’s been invested waaay too much in without anything to show for it. I fully expect more of the same. 

Im astonished.  I don’t think there’s a word of this post I agreed with.  Your view is at best very negative and worst deeply cynical.   Now even Steichen is slammed by you.  
 

 I’m hoping you’re in a grumpy mood from sleep deprivation, so I’m saying good night. 

[Solid84]

36 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Im astonished.  I don’t think there’s a word of this post I agreed with.  Your view is at best very negative and worst deeply cynical.   Now even Steichen is slammed by you.  
 

 I’m hoping you’re in a grumpy mood from sleep deprivation, so I’m saying good night. 

Stop the nonsense. I'm not slamming Steichen at all - I think he's probably the best thing to happen to the Colts since Luck, but if I had only mentioned Ballard you'd have been all "You think only Ballard was in on this decision?!?!", so, ironically, that's my question to you - do you think only Ballard was in on this decision?!?!

 

What you call negative and deeply cynical I call realistic. I don't expect a group that's shown nothing but lacking production to get super charged by a new DL coach. There's not a shred of evidence they'll be a top 5, top 10 or heck even top half of the league unit in pressures created this season - because they have NEVER played to that level.

 

I'm just done trying to find excuses for this team. They need to start producing. From the backup's backup to the top of the brass - they need to start producing.

[compuls1v3]

9 hours ago, John Waylon said:

No. But we’ve let the market of players who could come in and make an impact dwindle to nil. Now it’s down to bargains and bandaids. 
 

This is exactly how the Eric Fisher debacle started. 

As exciting as some of the FAs are that we missed out on, the truth is the jury is still out on Richardson.   When he gets us to the playoffs, I'll expect some changes in FA moves.

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

Grigson did… he over paid for old washed up FA, Andre Johnson for example?  
 

His best signing was Frank Gore.  

I’d say his best signing was Mike Adams and that was almost by accident.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Solid84 said:

Difference is the OL had already had top of the league play and the hope was Sparano could make them play up to that level again. 

The reason the Oline improved is because LT play improved.  As your LT plays so does the entire Oline, (because LT is the only individual oline position that's important,  Others won't agree, but its okay to be wrong in a free country).  Raimann worked hard to elevate his game between the time he started and the end of his rookie year...which was under that former "bad" oline coach.

 

IIRC, Raimann's grades during the last 5 or 6 games of his rookie year were pretty much the same as his grades this past year.  Maybe got a little better in his second year...which would be expected regardless of who the coach is.

[Solid84]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The reason the Oline improved is because LT play improved.  As your LT plays so does the entire Oline, (because LT is the only individual oline position that's important,  Others won't agree, but its okay to be wrong in a free country).  Raimann worked hard to elevate his game between the time he started and the end of his rookie year...which was under that former "bad" oline coach.

 

IIRC, Raimann's grades during the last 5 or 6 games of his rookie year were pretty much the same as his grades this past year.  Maybe got a little better in his second year...which would be expected regardless of who the coach is.

Raimann's increased performance no doubt was a big part of it, but everyone struggled on the Oline in '22. Nelson looked like a shell of himself, Kelly was down mentally and Fries still needed to up his game. Smith had a slow start and injuries IIRC.

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Raimann's increased performance no doubt was a big part of it, but everyone struggled on the Oline in '22. Nelson looked like a shell of himself, Kelly was down mentally and Fries still needed to up his game. Smith had a slow start and injuries IIRC.

Yes.  I don't think that "bad" oline coaching had anything to do with it.   This was a coach who was also trying to figure out what to do with a guy like Pryor.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Shefty was flat out lying.

 

 

[chad72]

20 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes.  I don't think that "bad" oline coaching had anything to do with it.   This was a coach who was also trying to figure out what to do with a guy like Pryor.

 

I don't know. Chris Strausser was hired by the Texans to be their O-line coach in 2023. C J Stroud has already taken a lot of hits, just that he has overcome them because of his abilities to play outside the pocket. It is a matter of time those hits catch up. Pretty much all the OL rankings have Indy in the Top 10 and Texans in the bottom half of the league. It was addition by subtraction with Strausser, IMO. Time will reveal it more. Of course, there is always a chance a young OL improves and play better without injuries, we will find out with the Texans.

 

https://www.playerprofiler.com/article/offensive-line-rankings-and-tiers-end-of-nfl-season-review-2024-offensive-line-outlook/

 

 

 

 

 

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I don't know. Chris Strausser was hired by the Texans to be their O-line coach in 2023. C J Stroud has already taken a lot of hits, just that he has overcome them because of his abilities to play outside the pocket. It is a matter of time those hits catch up. Pretty much all the OL rankings have Indy in the Top 10 and Texans in the bottom half of the league. It was addition by subtraction with Strausser, IMO. Time will reveal it more. Of course, there is always a chance a young OL improves and play better without injuries, we will find out with the Texans.

 

https://www.playerprofiler.com/article/offensive-line-rankings-and-tiers-end-of-nfl-season-review-2024-offensive-line-outlook/

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, there may be a difference in coaching.  But if we still had Pryor at LT and not Raimann, I doubt the oline would be in the top half of the NFL.  Raimann played well under Strausser too.

[Colt Overseas]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Curious?   When was it revealed that FS is more important in Bradley’s defense than any other DC’s defense.  Honestly, I missed that.  

In the way we predominately play Cover 3 single high safety, which is a lot less common in today’s NFL. I don’t have the interview but I remember Bradley recently speaking about the difficulty in finding a Center fielder that has the speed and range to play the role. And I don’t see someone in the draft that could come in and start either. Hence why I suggested Simmons and Diggs could be the best options.

[GoColts8818]

Some seem obsessed with having to win a Super Bowl with Richardson on his rookie deal to the point I kinda think some think there is no chance to win one after that because of his contract.
 

Well look at the last three QBs to win Super Bowls, Mahomes, Stafford, and Brady.  None were on a rookie deal.  There is life after a rookie deal for a QB and a chance to still win Super Bowls.  
 

Now I will agree your best chance to acquire talent is when a QB is on his rookie deal and I’ll agree you have more room for error with acquiring players while they are on a rookie deal.  However, if you know what you are doing you can still do those things after a QB is past his rookie deal.

 

The key for Ballard is he has to produce something to get to that point.  If this team isn’t getting to the playoffs and winning the division by the end of Richardson’s rookie deal he isn’t going to be here for a second contract with Richardson, if he earns one, which is still an if.

 

My point is though the Colts don’t have to go all in at the expense of their future over the next few years like some seem to want.  They need to grow the roster which is what I think Ballard is trying to do.  He’s trying to put younger players, especially on offense, to grow with Richardson.  
 

I’ll admit I don’t totally agree with the plan on defense but I’ll also acknowledge it’s not a final product yet.  I’ll also acknowledge that the Colts seem to like their roster on defense more than some fans do.  Last thing I also don’t think the biggest issue with the Colts defense is the players I think it’s the DC and as long as Bradley is here I think their overall success on defense will be limited regardless of who they put out there.  
 

 

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

In the way we predominately play Cover 3 single high safety, which is a lot less common in today’s NFL. I don’t have the interview but I remember Bradley recently speaking about the difficulty in finding a Center fielder that has the speed and range to play the role. And I don’t see someone in the draft that could come in and start either. Hence why I suggested Simmons and Diggs could be the best options.

Its a hard position to fill, because that FS can't just sit back there and play like a soccer goalkeeper.

 

He has to also come closer to make a play underneath, otherwise its 11 on our 10 when it comes to short and intermediate passing.  The cover 3 guy has to have the range to play cover...and tackling skills to make a play closer to the LOS when needed....and strength to hold up over a season.

[NFLfan]

@GoColts8818  As I noted last night, I was going to move the comments that were strictly or mostly about Ballard, but I see that another thread has been created for only Free Agency Updates and News (Colts). I "featured" (⭐) it.

 

I will leave this thread as is.

[DougDew]

19 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Some seem obsessed with having to win a Super Bowl with Richardson on his rookie deal to the point I kinda think some think there is no chance to win one after that because of his contract.

You're right, it doesn't generally work like that.  The QB being on the rookie deal is not the common formula, IMO.  Its the franchise QB being on his second contract, playing with a lot of position players out playing their contracts in their 2nd or 3rd year of their rookie deals.

 

Just a recent example, did Mahomes win a SB under his rookie deal?  Maybe one?.  But did it with positional player Hill on his rookie deal?   Well, KC just won another SB with Sneed and McDuffie on their rookie deals.

 

We got a few years to go.  In the mean time, I'll watch Pittman and Grover, and Franklin, and JT play out their new 3 year contracts, and hope Paye becomes a pass rusher.   Yawn.

 

Never know.  We could be like the Eagles were and play with a bunch of experienced players and have Carson Wentz or Jalen Hurts lead us to a lot of wins on the rookie deal.  There is no strict formula, but there is no urgency for AR to be on his rookie deal in order for the Colts to win a SB.

[runthepost]

10 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Some seem obsessed with having to win a Super Bowl with Richardson on his rookie deal to the point I kinda think some think there is no chance to win one after that because of his contract.
 

Well look at the last three QBs to win Super Bowls, Mahomes, Stafford, and Brady.  None were on a rookie deal.  There is life after a rookie deal for a QB and a chance to still win Super Bowls.  
 

Now I will agree your best chance to acquire talent is when a QB is on his rookie deal and I’ll agree you have more room for error with acquiring players while they are on a rookie deal.  However, if you know what you are doing you can still do those things after a QB is past his rookie deal.

 

The key for Ballard is he has to produce something to get to that point.  If this team isn’t getting to the playoffs and winning the division by the end of Richardson’s rookie deal he isn’t going to be here for a second contract with Richardson, if he earns one, which is still an if.

 

My point is though the Colts don’t have to go all in at the expense of their future over the next few years like some seem to want.  They need to grow the roster which is what I think Ballard is trying to do.  He’s trying to put younger players, especially on offense, to grow with Richardson.  
 

I’ll admit I don’t totally agree with the plan on defense but I’ll also acknowledge it’s not a final product yet.  I’ll also acknowledge that the Colts seem to like their roster on defense more than some fans do.  Last thing I also don’t think the biggest issue with the Colts defense is the players I think it’s the DC and as long as Bradley is here I think their overall success on defense will be limited regardless of who they put out there.  
 

 

Mahomes first superbowl was on his rookie deal 

[NFLfan]

21 minutes ago, runthepost said:

Mahomes first superbowl was on his rookie deal 

 

I think he means that Mahomes has won championships when he was not on a rookie deal (as well as when he was on a rookie deal). He mentioned Brady too.

[Solid84]

18 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Some seem obsessed with having to win a Super Bowl with Richardson on his rookie deal to the point I kinda think some think there is no chance to win one after that because of his contract.
 

Well look at the last three QBs to win Super Bowls, Mahomes, Stafford, and Brady.  None were on a rookie deal.  There is life after a rookie deal for a QB and a chance to still win Super Bowls.  
 

Now I will agree your best chance to acquire talent is when a QB is on his rookie deal and I’ll agree you have more room for error with acquiring players while they are on a rookie deal.  However, if you know what you are doing you can still do those things after a QB is past his rookie deal.

 

The key for Ballard is he has to produce something to get to that point.  If this team isn’t getting to the playoffs and winning the division by the end of Richardson’s rookie deal he isn’t going to be here for a second contract with Richardson, if he earns one, which is still an if.

 

My point is though the Colts don’t have to go all in at the expense of their future over the next few years like some seem to want.  They need to grow the roster which is what I think Ballard is trying to do.  He’s trying to put younger players, especially on offense, to grow with Richardson.  
 

I’ll admit I don’t totally agree with the plan on defense but I’ll also acknowledge it’s not a final product yet.  I’ll also acknowledge that the Colts seem to like their roster on defense more than some fans do.  Last thing I also don’t think the biggest issue with the Colts defense is the players I think it’s the DC and as long as Bradley is here I think their overall success on defense will be limited regardless of who they put out there.  
 

 

 

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

You're right, it doesn't generally work like that.  The QB being on the rookie deal is not the common formula, IMO.  Its the franchise QB being on his second contract, playing with a lot of position players out playing their contracts in their 2nd or 3rd year of their rookie deals.

 

Just a recent example, did Mahomes win a SB under his rookie deal?  Maybe one?.    Well, they just one another with Sneed and McDuffie on their rookie deals.

 

We got a few years to go.  In the mean time, I'll watch Pittman and Grover, and Franklin, and JT play out their new 3 year contracts, and hope Paye becomes a pass rusher.   Yawn.

 

Never know.  We could be like the Eagles were and play with a bunch of experienced players and have Carson Wentz or Jalen Hurts lead us to a lot of wins on the rookie deal.  There is no strict formula, but there is no urgency for AR to be on his rookie deal in order for the Colts to win a SB.

 

6 minutes ago, runthepost said:

Mahomes first superbowl was on his rookie deal 

It's easier to GET the talent when the QB is on a rookie deal. It's easier to KEEP the talent when you're winning.

 

Build the team now, while the cap isn't an issue.

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

 

 

It's easier to GET the talent when the QB is on a rookie deal. It's easier to KEEP the talent when you're winning.

 

Build the team now, while the cap isn't an issue.

I think the formula for any SB contending team in the past 15 years is for several players to outperform their rookie deals by a wide margin.  KC had HIll a few years back.   SF has Purdy now.  Philly had Hurts.  But GB had an old AR.  NE and ATL old QBs.  LAR had Kupp, IIRC.

 

Its not essential that its the QB.   You've got to have players out-play their rookie deals.  You get those players by drafting well, not necessarily getting them through the first week of free agency.

 

Draft better.  Have more 3rd rounders play like 1st rounders (not just "start"), rather than 1st rounders play like 3rd rounders. And have the 1st rounders play like 1st rounders.

 

More players like Raimann.  Fewer players like Paye.

[GoColts8818]

17 minutes ago, runthepost said:

Mahomes first superbowl was on his rookie deal 

 But his last two were not which is my point you can win Super Bowls and not have a QB on a rookie deal.

[GoColts8818]

11 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

 

 

It's easier to GET the talent when the QB is on a rookie deal. It's easier to KEEP the talent when you're winning.

 

Build the team now, while the cap isn't an issue.

I acknowledged the get talent part in my post.

[Solid84]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think the formula for any SB contending team in the past 15 years is for several players to outperform their rookie deals by a wide margin.  KC had HIll a few years back.   SF has Purdy now.  Philly had Hurts.  But GB had an old AR.  NE and ATL old QBs.  LAR had Kupp, IIRC.

 

Its not essential that its the QB.   You've got to have players out-play their rookie deals.  You get those players by drafting well, not necessarily getting them through the first week of free agency.

 

Draft better.  Have more 3rd rounders play like 1st rounders (not just "start"), rather than 1st rounders play like 3rd rounders. And have the 1st rounders play like 1st rounders.

 

More players like Raimann.  Fewer players like Paye.

You need to draft your big dogs, but you need to supplement your hits by covering the misses with quality FA talent. Every team that wins does this.

 

The Chiefs are bringing quality players every year - not top tier, but quality guys. The Eagles have been doing that as well for a handful of years now. The Bengals are doing it. The Ravens are doing it.

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

You need to draft your big dogs, but you need to supplement your hits by covering the misses with quality FA talent. Every team that wins does this.

 

The Chiefs are bringing quality players every year - not top tier, but quality guys. The Eagles have been doing that as well for a handful of years now. The Bengals are doing it. The Ravens are doing it.

I don't disagree.  I'm just focusing on the topic of rookie contracts...or having players out play their contracts being the key to success.   Simply getting what you pay for is not good enough.  You need players that provide a high return on investment.

 

IMO, if you look at a lot of the contending teams, they have players that exceed their "value" of where they were drafted.  Hill, Kupp, McDuffie...and yes, the QBs Purdy, Hurts, etc.  Chris Jones was on a very cheap second contract when KC won its first SB...outplayed his contract.  

 

I can't think of a player that the Colts have drafted that has exceeded his draft slot other than Raimann.  We've had good players, but its either nelson at pick 4 or JT at 41, and some of those positions they play kind of detract from their impact unlike a Hill, Kupp, Sneed, Jones, the QBs etc.

 

There is hope for the Colts, we have Raimann at LT and probably AR at QB that have (can) outplay their contract.  Need an EDGE that will do the same...and probably a receiver (either a wide out or a TE).  Once those players return a higher investment than we've had at EDGE and WR, then the FA acquisitions mean something.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

7 hours ago, ShuteAt168 said:

Oh, well, maybe I’m wrong. Post that link where CB said players don’t want to come to Indy or that Indy has to overpay them. I can’t read everything so I’d honestly love to see the video or article. Thanks. 

 

Ballard : Free Agents don't prefer coming to Indy.

 

Same Ballard to their agents: I thought it was Dollar General.... 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

44 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

 But his last two were not which is my point you can win Super Bowls and not have a QB on a rookie deal.

That's probably true because of Mahomes' greatness to defeat fellow great QBs like Burrow, Allen consistently and beat elite defenses like 49ers multiple times.

 

I'm not objecting your point but mainly the plural "Super Bowls", teams tried to win Super Bowls with Rodgers, Brees and many others but it's tough to keep repeating the greatness for a QB more than his peers and so few have done it.

 

But, I agree, teams can win SB with QB after his rookie deal, but the QB will have to be really great and the team will have to be built really strong indeed. 

[chad72]

59 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think the formula for any SB contending team in the past 15 years is for several players to outperform their rookie deals by a wide margin.  KC had HIll a few years back.   SF has Purdy now.  Philly had Hurts.  But GB had an old AR.  NE and ATL old QBs.  LAR had Kupp, IIRC.

 

Its not essential that its the QB.   You've got to have players out-play their rookie deals.  You get those players by drafting well, not necessarily getting them through the first week of free agency.

 

Draft better.  Have more 3rd rounders play like 1st rounders (not just "start"), rather than 1st rounders play like 3rd rounders. And have the 1st rounders play like 1st rounders.

 

More players like Raimann.  Fewer players like Paye.

 

Definitely agree with the bolded. The issue is our players on rookie deals haven't resulted in the return that teams like the Bengals, Packers, Lions, Chiefs etc. have the last year or so.

 

Yes, there are teams like the Eagles, Jets, Jaguars, Rams, 49ers that are fine to give up draft picks or FA money to take annual swings. But the majority of teams do it the "drafted rookies outperforming on rookie deals" way.