Exciting times ahead. Key dates to know for Colts fans (MERGE)

[Solid84]

15 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Jake Arthur said Wilkins would be a good fit for colts but that would mean not bringing Grover back.

It would and he'd probably cost nearly twice what Stewart will make. It would improve our passrush though.

[Solid84]

Man, the Bills are cleaning house...

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I think Jeremy Chinn had a RAS score of 10.0.  He would also be a great addition.

I think Chinn is a strong safety and not a free safety which is what the Colts need.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Man, the Bills are cleaning house...

So weird when they are expected to be SB contenders. Maybe they have some younger defensive guys they want to start. Or maybe some younger players in FA.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Wow this could happen. I don’t like the draft compensation it might take but having a bet QB who is still pretty young to go with Brents would have me very excited. Hopefully it wouldn’t cost us our second round pick.

That speed trade could even happen before next week too. 

I think this story is badly over written.   The Colts showing interest turns into “serious” interest within the story based on nothing.   
 

I think the chances of trading for Sneed are very, very small.   

[Solid84]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

So weird when they are expected to be SB contenders. Maybe they have some younger defensive guys they want to start. Or maybe some younger players in FA.

I think it's them setting up to reload a little over the next couple of offseasons. Sometimes you gotta let big contract players go if they aren't producing to the level for their contract.

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

So weird when they are expected to be SB contenders. Maybe they have some younger defensive guys they want to start. Or maybe some younger players in FA.

The Bills are cutting White because he tore an Achilles late last season.   He’d likely miss some of the season and then not be 100 back to normal when he was playing.   Much like Dayo his first year for the Colts.  

[NewColtsFan]

31 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Jake Arthur said Wilkins would be a good fit for colts but that would mean not bringing Grover back.

How can Wilkins be a good fit for the Colts?   He would likely cost $18 mill a year.  I’d prefer Grover at $12m per.  
 

Id have zero interest in Wilkins.  

[csmopar]

15 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Man, the Bills are cleaning house...

Years of restructuring and kicking the cap down the road finally caught up with them. Saints too

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

How can Wilkins be a good fit for the Colts?   He would likely cost $18 mill a year.  I’d prefer Grover at $12m per.  
 

Id have zero interest in Wilkins.  

Wilkins is better than Stewart and doesn’t have the PED concern. That said, I’d take Stewart at 12 million over Wilkins at 18 million BUT the PED thing is a big concern for me simply cause if he gets caught again, it’s a full year suspension 

[Colt Overseas]

The market is looking strong now for DBs this year, which is good news for the Colts, who could do with some more vet experience in the secondary.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Wilkins is better than Stewart and doesn’t have the PED concern. That said, I’d take Stewart at 12 million over Wilkins at 18 million BUT the PED thing is a big concern for me simply cause if he gets caught again, it’s a full year suspension 

I am not concerned with the PED. I really think some of these players make a mistake and just aren’t careful with supplements they take. Done read ingredient lists.

Bills have no secondary left. They also cut White.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Colt Overseas said:

The market is looking strong now for DBs this year, which is good news for the Colts, who could do with some more vet experience in the secondary.

Colts biggest weakness is safety and corner. It’s a nice FA group this year.

16 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I think it's them setting up to reload a little over the next couple of offseasons. Sometimes you gotta let big contract players go if they aren't producing to the level for their contract.

Their safeties were getting up there in age too.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

18 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think this story is badly over written.   The Colts showing interest turns into “serious” interest within the story based on nothing.   
 

I think the chances of trading for Sneed are very, very small.   

Like Zach Hicks and Jake Arthur said on their show today this would actually be a very Chris Ballard move. Just like Gilmore. He is going to cost a lot more the Gilly though so we will see.  It might mean not bringing Kenny back or Grover. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Wilkins is better than Stewart and doesn’t have the PED concern. That said, I’d take Stewart at 12 million over Wilkins at 18 million BUT the PED thing is a big concern for me simply cause if he gets caught again, it’s a full year suspension 

I understand the concerns about Stewart.  Your points valid.    
 

That said, I have no interest in ANY Nose Tackle at that kind of money.   $18m is a complete non-starter for me.   $10-12m is where my comfort level lives.  

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Like Zach Hicks and Jake Arthur said on their show today this would actually be a very Chris Ballard move. Just like Gilmore. He is going to cost a lot more the Gilly though so we will see.  It might mean not bringing Kenny back or Grover. 

I don’t get the comparison to signing Gilmore at 10 mill per 2/20, with trading for Sneed and paying him $15-18 mill.   That would be 5/75-90.  

 

That’s something Ballard has NEVER done, so I don’t see it as a “very Ballard move”.  

 

I think Zack Hicks and Jake Arthur have made a VERY weak argument.   

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I understand the concerns about Stewart.  Your points valid.    
 

That said, I have no interest in ANY Nose Tackle at that kind of money.   $18m is a complete non-starter for me.   $10-12m is where my comfort level lives.  

Even one that had 9 sacks this year. That’s double what Stewart had given.

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t get the comparison to signing Gilmore at 10 mill per 2/20, with trading for Sneed and paying him $15-18 mill.   That would be 5/75-90.  

 

That’s something Ballard has NEVER done, so I don’t see it as a “very Ballard move”.  

 

I think Zack Hicks and Jake Arthur have made a VERY weak argument.   

He is younger then Gilly so yes it will cost more.

[csmopar]

10 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I understand the concerns about Stewart.  Your points valid.    
 

That said, I have no interest in ANY Nose Tackle at that kind of money.   $18m is a complete non-starter for me.   $10-12m is where my comfort level lives.  

Well normally I’d agree but it’s either we pay for some upgrades or try and get them in the draft. In years past, I’ve been on the frugal side, liking the approach of high 2nd tier players. But with a good albeit unproven rookie QB, and given the strength of the division, we need to try and make some bigger moves. Not reckless but more impactful and thus more expensive.

 

Wilkins next to Buckner with Dayo and Paye on either side and Lewis coming in off the bench, that’s a D line that should wreck havoc on most OLs

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Even one that had 9 sacks this year. That’s double what Stewart had given.

He is younger then Gilly so yes it will cost more.

It’ll cost a LOT more.  Way outside my comfort level. 
 

And even with 9 sacks I have zero interest son paying ANY nose tackle that kind of money.   It’s not an anti-Wilkins thing, it’s being against paying ANY nose tackle premium money.  

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Well normally I’d agree but it’s either we pay for some upgrades or try and get them in the draft. In years past, I’ve been on the frugal side, liking the approach of high 2nd tier players. But with a good albeit unproven rookie QB, and given the strength of the division, we need to try and make some bigger moves. Not reckless but more impactful and thus more expensive.

 

Wilkins next to Buckner with Dayo and Paye on either side and Lewis coming in off the bench, that’s a D line that should wreck havoc on most OLs

Im not interested in having Wilkins make more money than Buckner.   To me, that’s a bad allocation of money.   
 

Honestly, I’m fine with not paying ANY free agent — regardless of position — more than roughly $12 mill per.   That’s defense and offense, ST, everything.   We still have to re-sign our own.  

[GoColts8818]

56 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

So weird when they are expected to be SB contenders. Maybe they have some younger defensive guys they want to start. Or maybe some younger players in FA.

They are 40 million over the cap before these moves.  They didn’t have a choice.

[richard pallo]

36 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I understand the concerns about Stewart.  Your points valid.    
 

That said, I have no interest in ANY Nose Tackle at that kind of money.   $18m is a complete non-starter for me.   $10-12m is where my comfort level lives.  

I would absolutely pay WIlkens $18m versus Grover’s $12m.  He is far superior player to Grover.  And he is only 28 compared to Grover’s 31.  He had a record performance year last year with high pressure numbers and 10 sacks compared to Grover’s 1.  Grover is a one trick pony, a run stopper, compared to an all around tackle like Wilkins.  When the Colts were talking trade with the Dolphins regarding Taylor WIlkens is the player they wanted in return with Grover already entrenched as the starter.  That should tell you a lot.  And they new WIlkens was entering his FA year.  And now Grover has the PED suspension hanging over his head.  If they wanted to move on from Grover, Wilkins would be a great choice.  

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I would absolutely pay WIlkens $18m versus Grover’s $12m.  He is far superior player to Grover.  And he is only 28 compared to Grover’s 31.  He had a record performance year last year with high pressure numbers and 10 sacks compared to Grover’s 1.  Grover is a one trick pony, a run stopper, compared to an all around tackle like Wilkins.  When the Colts were talking trade with the Dolphins regarding Taylor WIlkens is the player they wanted in return with Grover already entrenched as the starter.  That should tell you a lot.  And they new WIlkens was entering his FA year.  And now Grover has the PED suspension hanging over his head.  If they wanted to move on from Grover, Wilkins would be a great choice.  

There’s a reason why Stewart is a one-trick pony.   Because the position is designed to prioritize stopping the run.  Almost all nose tackles are like Stewart.  Wilkins is an exception.  He can rush the passer.   And despite his skill, Miami is moving on from him.  That should tell you they don’t think he’s worth that kind of money.   
 

Of course you’d pay Wilkins.   You've never met a big name player you wouldn’t trade for or sign as a free agent.  You’ve been excited by every shiny toy that has become available since you arrived here.  Doesn’t matter how expensive they are or how old they are, you want the Colts to acquire them.   
 

If you look at this thread you’ll see multiple posts from me saying I don’t want to pay ANY nose tackle crazy money.  A good run stopping nose tackle can be signed for $12 mill or LESS.   So I certainly don’t want to pay 50 percent more.  I’m not anti-Wilkins, I’m anti paying the position premium money. 
 

My approach is the opposite of yours.   You’re comfortable with your approach and I’m comfortable with mine.  We see this very differently.   Sorry. 

[throwing BBZ]

 

8 hours ago, csmopar said:

Yeah interesting. Trade Pittman for Snead straight up?

 

 

 Grover is a solid 2 down lineman. If the QB drops back on 1st down he immediately becomes a liability to our other 3 players ability to pressure the QB.

 Wilkins is one of the best 3 down interior lineman (would play 200 + more snaps) who gets far more sacks than Grover and triples his pressures and would make all of our front four more effective.

 If pressures do mean much, Wilkins would help the entire back seven.

 Wilkins would well be worth to us the $20M + incentives that he will get from someone. We could actually hope to build a D.

 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

Wilkins is one of the best 3 down interior lineman (would play 200 + more snaps) who gets far more sacks than Grover and triples his pressures and would make all of our front four more effective.

 If pressures do mean much, Wilkins would help the entire back seven.

 Wilkins would well be worth to us the $20M + incentives that he will get from someone. We could actually hope to build a D.

it’s actually a move I could see Ballard making. Going into Buckner’s final year, they would be paired to be a force in the middle. It would give us a sure anchor going forward, regardless of what happens to Buckner, Paye and Dayo. We would obviously be taking him in place of Stewart. 
 

But with the amount of money and emphasis Ballard put on the fronts, and how aligned Steichen is on that, it’s a move I wouldn’t be shocked by. If there is ever a time to do it, it would be now. Again, buckner could be gone, we might draft his replacement, or draft Paye’s and sign Dayo to an extension replacing Buckner. Who knows what the strategic options are on the d-line, but understand this- if Ballard’s in charge, they won’t be afraid to invest there. 

[w87r]

12 hours ago, csmopar said:

Wilkins next to Buckner with Dayo and Paye on either side and Lewis coming in off the bench, that’s a D line that should wreck havoc on most OLs

Didn't mention our best end.

 

Samson Ebukam.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[shasta519]

16 hours ago, Solid84 said:

It would and he'd probably cost nearly twice what Stewart will make. It would improve our passrush though.

 

Wilkins would be a dream signing. He's two years younger and better than Grove. The problem is how do you sign him AND extend DeFo? That would be a lot of money tied up in interior DL. 

 

I suppose if they went ER at #15 (Verse or Turner), that would offset it a bit. Then they can decide between Paye and Dayo for an extension after next season.

 

[Solid84]

3 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Wilkins would be a dream signing. He's two years younger and better than Grove. The problem is how do you sign him AND extend DeFo? That would be a lot of money tied up in interior DL. 

 

I suppose if they went ER at #15 (Verse or Turner), that would offset it a bit. Then they can decide between Paye and Dayo for an extension after next season.

 

If WR isn’t what we’re taking at 15 (or Bowers), I really like the idea of taking Byron Murphy or maybe Jer’Zhan Newton. 

[shasta519]

15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t get the comparison to signing Gilmore at 10 mill per 2/20, with trading for Sneed and paying him $15-18 mill.   That would be 5/75-90.  

 

That’s something Ballard has NEVER done, so I don’t see it as a “very Ballard move”.  

 

I think Zack Hicks and Jake Arthur have made a VERY weak argument.   

 

They often do. All offseason, Hicks has been trying to convince everyone the reason the DL couldn't pressure often was because QBs just threw the ball so fast the DL couldn't get there.

 

Only thing the Gilly and Sneed moves have in common is the position, but the Sneed move is much more like the DeFo move, in that will require draft capital AND a massive extension.

 

I think $15-18M is probably even on the low side. Every year, we get to FA and we are like "woah...these contracts are crazy." Just wait. The cap raised 14% from where people thought it was. It's going to be insane. 

[shasta519]

5 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

If WR isn’t what we’re taking at 15 (or Bowers), I really like the idea of taking Byron Murphy or maybe Jer’Zhan Newton. 

 

DT would make a lot of people angry, but it actually makes sense because of how the roster is constructed. Both Grove and DeFo are or will be 30 soon, so they have to get younger there somehow. 

[shasta519]

20 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

 

This is interesting. I think part of this is rule changes. But also, Ss typically play at a high level longer than other positions, so you have guys getting paid from several different draft classes at the same time.

 

Whatever the reason, Ballard should be signing at least two of these guys. Blackmon might only get a one-year deal with that many other Ss out there.

[dw49]

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t get the comparison to signing Gilmore at 10 mill per 2/20, with trading for Sneed and paying him $15-18 mill.   That would be 5/75-90.  

 

That’s something Ballard has NEVER done, so I don’t see it as a “very Ballard move”.  

 

I think Zack Hicks and Jake Arthur have made a VERY weak argument.   

 

I think Snead will be more like 4/80. He going to get at least the tag number which is over 19 mill.

[chad72]

15 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

This is interesting. I think part of this is rule changes. But also, Ss typically play at a high level longer than other positions, so you have guys getting paid from several different draft classes at the same time.

 

Whatever the reason, Ballard should be signing at least two of these guys. Blackmon might only get a one-year deal with that many other Ss out there.

 

I love the fact that there is as much supply as there is demand with the FA safety class.

 

This could mean that a FA like Xavier McKinney or Justin Simmons could be had for $12 mil. a year as opposed to $15 mil. like Jesse Bates got. But the cap going up complicates things too. If you want a Seahawks type D having to go against the best QBs in the NFL with most of them in the AFC, you need that safety patrol and you get what you pay for, IMO.

 

Skill positions ROI is better from the draft - so draft for offense, and pay for a couple elite guys on D in FA and we will be contending for the division, IMO.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If Colts want to keep Blackmon they should be able too at a good cost with all the safeties on the market.  Plus add one of these vets.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

 

Wilkins would be a dream signing. He's two years younger and better than Grove. The problem is how do you sign him AND extend DeFo? That would be a lot of money tied up in interior DL. 

 

I suppose if they went ER at #15 (Verse or Turner), that would offset it a bit. Then they can decide between Paye and Dayo for an extension after next season.

 

We don’t have to worry about extending DeFo this year.  A lot could happen between now and when that decision has to be made.  Getting a younger foundation piece like Wilkins makes a lot of sense right now imo.  Defo and Grover are in their 30’s.  That’s the age where the majority of players get released or start to decline.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

I love the fact that there is as much supply as there is demand with the FA safety class.

 

This could mean that a FA like Xavier McKinney or Justin Simmons could be had for $12 mil. a year as opposed to $15 mil. like Jesse Bates got. But the cap going up complicates things too. If you want a Seahawks type D having to go against the best QBs in the NFL with most of them in the AFC, you need that safety patrol and you get what you pay for, IMO.

 

Skill positions ROI is better from the draft - so draft for offense, and pay for a couple elite guys on D in FA and we will be contending for the division, IMO.

100%

[colts89]

Seems like a great time to invest in adding veteran DBs to our young room.

[Solid84]

4 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

DT would make a lot of people angry, but it actually makes sense because of how the roster is constructed. Both Grove and DeFo are or will be 30 soon, so they have to get younger there somehow. 

Yup, and even if we re-sign Grover we still need depth behind both him and Buckner. Even if we took a DT at 15 they’d still need a year or two to get going. I think DT at 15 is a win even if I’d prefer an offensive playmaker. 

[lester]

7 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Yup, and even if we re-sign Grover we still need depth behind both him and Buckner. Even if er took a DT at 15 they’d still need a year or two to get going. I think DT at 15 is a win even if I’d prefer an offensive playmaker. 

 

My opinion is we can expect free agent acquisitions for the defense this year. The draft will be used to add young foundational pieces for Anthony Richardson's offense.

 

With that said, I would not be surprised (and would not criticize) a 3rd or 4th round Defensive Tackle that has all the ingredients but maybe needs a year or two of Pro coaching to become a stud (just like Grover in 2017). That seems like wise roster management to me.