Colts released Shaq Leonard

[RollerColt]

9 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

He’s not the same player he was and he probably never will be again. I’ve had the sinking suspicion for a while now and it’s only been proven true so far. 
 

That said, with us taking the dead cap hit I can’t help but think someone would have given a 4 or a 5 for him just because they could, consequence free. And I’ve said it several times this season, I trust Ballard with a day 3 pick exponentially more than I do a day 1 or 2. His new team could have worked out a restructured deal with him if things worked out. 
 

But now we have this LB we paid 6 figures to, got very few healthy snaps out of (or did we even get any at all? It’s been so long ago now that I can’t even recall if he was healthy when he got it or not off the top of my head,) and now we’ve just let him go for nothing in return but the cap hit. 
 

The only way we could have taken a bigger L here is if we had sent a draft pick of our own out the door with him. No argument that the split was necessary, but this is how we engineer it? For free on a random Tuesday after the bye two weeks after the trade deadline?

Watching this team and Ballard flail wildly like this while we perennially struggle has grown real old. 

 

For all we know, which is very little, the team could’ve been shopping him but got no bites.

 

I guess we’ll see if he’s worth anything going through the waivers. If no one picks him up, then we probably weren’t going to get anything for him through a trade. 

[throwing BBZ]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

That doesn’t mean the HC didn’t lead the effort. Aldo shows Ballard evolving.

 

  I have a hard time imagining Steichen watching Leonard's tape and wanting more of that effort and play.

 Ballard would have asked his view, shared it with Irsay, Shaq would have respectfully been advised where his role is headed.

 It was time for him to go. And we are protected from paying him another $6M for injury in 2024.

 Ballard can be a better GM working with Steichen.

[BlackTiger]

1 minute ago, RollerColt said:

If no one picks him up

A wavier claim means the team would be taking on his current contract.  I cant imagine anyone doing that

[throwing BBZ]

3 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

For all we know, which is very little, the team could’ve been shopping him but got no bites.

 

I guess we’ll see if he’s worth anything going through the waivers. If no one picks him up, then we probably weren’t going to get anything for him through a trade. 

 

 He is nowhere close to a Million dollar a game player.

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 He is nowhere close to a Million dollar a game player.

I don’t think so either. Hence why no one was going to trade for that. Hence why it looks like the best option was to let him walk and play somewhere else. 

[DougDew]

Like many.  Not surprised.

 

Where's @Moosejawcolt

 

 

[OLD FAN MAN]

Just now, DougDew said:

Where's @Moosejawcolt

 

I wanna hear from the Moose.

moose was right , he is way ahead of a lot of people on here.

[throwing BBZ]

2 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

A wavier claim means the team would be taking on his current contract.  I cant imagine anyone doing that

 

  Right. It would be a reported $6M for 7 games.

 I do not believe he has any guaranteed $$ left on his contract so as long as he is not on a teams opening day roster in 2024 he would be owed nothing more.

[JColts72]

No shocker really as been having ongoing injuries. Can't play if injury prone.

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Right. It would be a reported $6M for 7 games.

 I do not believe he has any guaranteed $$ left on his contract so as long as he is not on a teams opening day roster in 2024 he would be owed nothing more.

Pretty sure his ‘23 salary became fully guaranteed at the beginning of the season. Either we pay that out or the new team does

[OLD FAN MAN]

13 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

A wavier claim means the team would be taking on his current contract.  I cant imagine anyone doing that

maybe a team making a run for it all

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

The avoidance of his injury guarantee kicking in is an interesting point that might have contributed to the Colts decision. 

I don't think there is any doubt. 

 

And in a way, the Colts let Leonard demonstrate that he could not play up to his level of compensation.  Not that a team can't cut a player at any time, but giving him the playing time shows everybody where Leonard is at.

[Matabix]

I'm *. This is nonsense. He was going to be MLB. When he was healthier he was the guy that showed up in the 4th quarter when we needed the turnover the most. I believe he didn't get a chance with Gus or he would've started at MLB over Olidipo when Franklin was out. So yea he didn't get a chance. The way he was playing before last year was rare talent. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[OLD FAN MAN]

4 minutes ago, Matabix said:

I'm *. This is nonsense. He was going to be MLB. When he was healthier he was the guy that showed up in the 4th quarter when we needed the turnover the most. I believe he didn't get a chance with Gus or he would've started at MLB over Olidipo when Franklin was out. So yea he didn't get a chance. The way he was playing before last year was rare talent. 

there is a reason the gus defense is near the bottom in the league. he plays his scheme and expects his players to fit in instead of playing to the players talent

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

there is a reason the gus defense is near the bottom in the league. he plays his scheme and expects his players to fit in instead of playing to the players talent

He actually mixed up coverages  last two games quite a bit. He had a CB suspended his DT suspended and multiple CB injuries. While I won’t complain if Steichen decided to make a change Gus has had a lot of obstacles on his way.

[w87r]

So contract wise.

 

5yrs $98.5m,  $20m SB,  $52.5m guaranteed

 

 

He leaves:

 

3yrs $55,374,000, to come off the books 

 

 

 

$6.5m of 2024 salary was guaranteed for injury, so I'm sure that played a part as well.

 

If he would of got injured in the next 7 games we might of been on the hook for that too.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Wonder if Vikings will keep Jefferson or start to rebuild.

Jefferson isn’t a piece you trade away even if you’re doing a rebuild.   Some pieces you don’t move.   Jefferson still on his rookie contract is one of them. 

[John Waylon]

31 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

For all we know, which is very little, the team could’ve been shopping him but got no bites.

 

I guess we’ll see if he’s worth anything going through the waivers. If no one picks him up, then we probably weren’t going to get anything for him through a trade. 

I don’t expect anyone to put a claim in, if they do then they have to take the dead cap hits as well if they decide to move on. But by trading for him, another team would have been in the clear because we’re taking the hit, and then they could have re-negotiated a more modest deal with Shaq after the season if everything worked out for them that would keep them both happy. 
 

I’d think if they shopped a guy like Shaq for a 4 or 5 someone would have taken that chance, if nothing else than for help over the remainder of this season. He’s not the Shaq of old but he’s better than a lot of warm roster bodies most teams are listing on their depth charts. They would have been able to dump him in January had it not worked out free of consequence. 
 

People keep saying his contract made him untradable, but it really didn’t. It’s nothing more than a formality because with the dead cap already accounted for chances are whatever team traded for him would re-negotiate the contract after the season. Or maybe they even would have paid him the salary due next season (which isn’t exorbitant by any means at 12.1 million,) and then cut him before it ballooned up to nearly 20M the last 2 years of the deal, which, again, would have been free to do because we’ve taken on the dead cap. 

[Defjamz26]

This is earlier than expected. I had recently said that I didn’t see him on this team in 2024, but I thought they’d wait till after the season. There must be something related to cap savings that made them move on in the middle of the season.

 

I honestly think this was best for both parties. This is part of the game. Most teams have to make tough choices and let popular players go. KC traded Tyreek Hill over like a $4 million dollar difference in numbers IIRC. Minnesota traded Diggs, etc… this is a regular part of business in the NFL. 
 

I wonder if this is a change in philosophy long term as well. I wonder if they’re going to be more selective on who they bring back and extend. That’s why I’m not looking at this and saying that this guarantees that Pitt, Moore, Blackmon, and Stewart are all back now. This is actually a sign of growth as a GM for Ballard by being able to move on from his “guys”.

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, John Waylon said:

I don’t expect anyone to put a claim in, if they do then they have to take the dead cap hits as well if they decide to move on. But by trading for him, another team would have been in the clear because we’re taking the hit, and then they could have re-negotiated a more modest deal with Shaq after the season if everything worked out for them that would keep them both happy. 
 

I’d think if they shopped a guy like Shaq for a 4 or 5 someone would have taken that chance, if nothing else than for help over the remainder of this season. He’s not the Shaq of old but he’s better than a lot of warm roster bodies most teams are listing on their depth charts. They would have been able to dump him in January had it not worked out free of consequence. 
 

People keep saying his contract made him untradable, but it really didn’t. It’s nothing more than a formality because with the dead cap already accounted for chances are whatever team traded for him would re-negotiate the contract after the season. Or maybe they even would have paid him the salary due next season (which isn’t exorbitant by any means at 12.1 million,) and then cut him before it ballooned up to nearly 20M the last 2 years of the deal, which, again, would have been free to do because we’ve taken on the dead cap. 

I think his play this season made him untradeable more than the contract. 

[NewColtsFan]

31 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

maybe a team making a run for it all

That same team can simply wait a few days, Shaq will clear waivers, then that team can sign him to a much smaller more modest contract.    If they sign him before he clears waivers, then that team is on the hook for the rest of Shaq’s huge contract.   
 

We’re only talking a matter of a few days, but it makes a big difference. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

This is earlier than expected. I had recently said that I didn’t see him on this team in 2024, but I thought they’d wait till after the season. There must be something related to cap savings that made them move on in the middle of the season.

 

I honestly think this was best for both parties. This is part of the game. Most teams have to make tough choices and let popular players go. KC traded Tyreek Hill over like a $4 million dollar difference in numbers IIRC. Minnesota traded Diggs, etc… this is a regular part of business in the NFL. 
 

I wonder if this is a change in philosophy long term as well. I wonder if they’re going to be more selective on who they bring back and extend. That’s why I’m not looking at this and saying that this guarantees that Pitt, Moore, Blackmon, and Stewart are all back now. This is actually a sign of growth as a GM for Ballard by being able to move on from his “guys”.

good point

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

That same team can simply wait a few days, Shaq will clear waivers, then that team can sign him to a much smaller more modest contract.    If they sign him before he clears waivers, then that team is on the hook for the rest of Shaq’s huge contract.   
 

We’re only talking a matter of a few days, but it makes a big difference. 

It’s true. I can’t see anyone picking him up until afterwards. Best of luck to him. But he did get paid handsomely so I’m not going to feel too sorry for how things turned out. Especially with how a lot of us are struggling financially with this inflation. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

wow they really did self scout on the bye week.

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Wow

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I love this new era of accountability.

[John Waylon]

2 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I think his play this season made him untradeable more than the contract. 

He’s been vocal and open about what has been holding his play back. He’s puts the onus on the scheme and the coaching for his lack of Shaq plays. Even if a team just got him at 50% and re-negotiated his deal at 50% they’re still getting a nice blue chip prospect bet. 
 

He hasn’t been bad this season by and large. The Patriots game was his worst, and I’ll give him that, but he’s not yet a spare parts worthless player, or a guy who is just a total liability while he’s out there. 

[w87r]

5 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

I don’t expect anyone to put a claim in, if they do then they have to take the dead cap hits as well if they decide to move on.

No they don't.

 

Colts are responsible for remaining SB hits regardless, as they are already paid out.

 

They(team that puts a claim in)will be responsible for the rest of '23 base salary (around $6m), as it is guaranteed. If he happens to get hurt, they will be responsible for $6.5m more in '24, if he can't pass a physical. If he can pass physical, there is no guaranteed money left on the deal, after '23.

 

Cap hits would be:(for team that claims him)

24 - $16.124m

25 - $19.55m

26 - 19.7m

 

Nothing guaranteed, just the $6.5m for injury only.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Just now, John Waylon said:

He’s been vocal and open about what has been holding his play back. He’s puts the onus on the scheme and the coaching for his lack of Shaq plays. Even if a team just got him at 50% and re-negotiated his deal at 50% they’re still getting a nice blue chip prospect bet. 
 

He hasn’t been bad this season by and large. The Patriots game was his worst, and I’ll give him that, but he’s not yet a spare parts worthless player, or a guy who is just a total liability while he’s out there. 

imo he can help some team win it all. hopefully not the texans

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I love this new era of accountability.

I’m okay with it as long as it doesn’t become Josh McDaniels “Failtriot Way” 3.0.

 

My way or the highway doesn’t work in the NFL level unless you get rid of all of the previous regime players and completely rebuild… which fans and owners don’t usually have the patience to deal with. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, RollerColt said:

I’m okay with it as long as it doesn’t become Josh McDaniels “Failtriot Way” 3.0.

 

My way or the highway doesn’t work in the NFL level unless you get rid of all of the previous regime players and completely rebuild… which fans and owners don’t usually have the patience to deal with. 

Oh I agree. I don’t think that is what we have here. For instance Steichen stood right up and defended Grover.

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, w87r said:

No they don't.

 

Colts are responsible for remaining SB hits regardless, as they are already paid out.

 

They(team that puts a claim in)will be responsible for the rest of '23 base salary (around $6m), as it is guaranteed. If he happens to get hurt, they will be responsible for $6.5m more in '24, if he can't pass a physical. If he can pass physical, there is no guaranteed money left on the deal, after '23.

 

Cap hits would be:(for team that claims him)

24 - $16.124m

25 - $19.55m

26 - 19.7m

 

Nothing guaranteed, just the $6.5m for injury only.

So a team could claim him now and it would only cost them 6m for the rest of the season.  Then they could cut him at the end of the season if they didn’t like what they saw.  Right?

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

I don’t expect anyone to put a claim in, if they do then they have to take the dead cap hits as well if they decide to move on. But by trading for him, another team would have been in the clear because we’re taking the hit, and then they could have re-negotiated a more modest deal with Shaq after the season if everything worked out for them that would keep them both happy. 
 

I’d think if they shopped a guy like Shaq for a 4 or 5 someone would have taken that chance, if nothing else than for help over the remainder of this season. He’s not the Shaq of old but he’s better than a lot of warm roster bodies most teams are listing on their depth charts. They would have been able to dump him in January had it not worked out free of consequence. 
 

People keep saying his contract made him untradable, but it really didn’t. It’s nothing more than a formality because with the dead cap already accounted for chances are whatever team traded for him would re-negotiate the contract after the season. Or maybe they even would have paid him the salary due next season (which isn’t exorbitant by any means at 12.1 million,) and then cut him before it ballooned up to nearly 20M the last 2 years of the deal, which, again, would have been free to do because we’ve taken on the dead cap. 

 

You're incorrect on a few of these things.

 

First, the obligation of trading for Leonard vs claiming him through waivers is pretty much exactly the same. The only material difference is that the trade deadline was two weeks ago, so trading for him would have cost an additional two weeks of game checks, the new team would have paid him $7.9m instead of the $6.1m they would pay if they claim him now. (There's also some technical provisions with a waived veteran; if claimed, Leonard could declare his free agency after 2024.)

 

Second, if traded, the Colts would still bear the cap penalties related to his previously paid signing bonus. Just like they do after waiving him.

 

And a third thing I'd like to point out is that $6.5m of Leonard's 2024 salary is guaranteed for injury. So if he has any injury that compromises his ability to play in 2024, that money is paid by the team that either trades for or claims him on waivers. That's a significant risk for a player who was compromised by injuries for the last two seasons, and it makes taking on Leonard's contract more than just a seven game rental; the investment could easily triple if something goes wrong.

 

Those are the facts. What's a matter of opinion is whether Leonard had any trade value before the deadline, and whether he has any value as a waiver claim. We might never know about the former, but the way the waiver process plays out might give us some clues. If he's not claimed, it probably means he had no trade value. If multiple teams put in claims, it might mean there was some trade value, although there's no way to tell whether that value was meaningful; I don't know if anyone needs to spend any time thinking about a conditional 7th round pick.

 

I also don't see why Leonard would be motivated to renegotiate his contract in this scenario, with any team. Either keep him and pay him his guaranteed money, or drop him and pay him his guaranteed money, plus he can go to free agency.

 

I don't really like how this played out for the Colts, but I also don't think these other options really existed.

[w87r]

8 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Wow

 

 

Kinda sad, but I think the team did him a solid.

 

 

If they told him he would be inactive going forward, which I can see with the extra $6.5m on the line if he gets hurt. I think allowing him to hit the market and maybe find a situation he can get some reps, is really a good thing for him, even if he can't see it at the moment.

[w87r]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

So a team could claim him now and it would only cost them 6m for the rest of the season.  Then they could cut him at the end of the season if they didn’t like what they saw.  Right?

As long as he doesn't get hurt.

 

If he were to get hurt and not be able to pass a physical, in the remaining 6-7 games then an additional $6.5m would be owed towards next year's salary.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Seeing this really does hit hard. It’s just so sad. We see a player who is trying to come to the realization that he isn’t the same player. Kind of in denial. 
 

 

[indykmj]

2 hours ago, Boondoggle said:

Strong and decisive move by the Colts.  I am surprised.  In a good way.

 

  Agreed.

 

  As someone who is lukewarm on Ballard, I find this move a bit encouraging.

[richard pallo]

3 minutes ago, w87r said:

As long as he doesn't get hurt.

 

If he were to get hurt and not be able to pass a physical, in the remaining 6-7 games then an additional $6.5m would be owed towards next year's salary.

If you’re a definite contender and you’re all in this year it might be worth the risk depending on your linebacker situation.  

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Seeing this really does hit hard. It’s just so sad. We see a player who is trying to come to the realization that he isn’t the same player. Kind of in denial. 
 

 

 

What a rotten dude. Definitely had to get him out of the locker room... /s

 

I don't think the Colts played this the right way. If you don't like how he's playing, or you don't want to risk his injury guarantee, bench him. That's apparently what they told him they were doing yesterday. Explain it ot the media, and let the rest work itself out.