AR vs Young vs Stroud vs Levis

[NewColtsFan]

56 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

It was his call.   He wasn't forced to hand over play calling

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/panthers-head-coach-frank-reich-hands-over-play-calling-duties-to-offensive-coor#:~:text=Amid an 0-6 start,Mike Garafolo reported on Monday.

Sincere question..,, 

 

What else could Frank say?    Honestly, is there another answer he could’ve given that wouldn’t have gotten him fired and potentially lose the payoff on his contract?   
 

I don’t think Frank had a choice in what he said.   There was no other option. 

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Sincere question..,, 

 

What else could Frank say?    Honestly, is there another answer he could’ve given that wouldn’t have gotten him fired and potentially lose the payoff on his contract?   
 

I don’t think Frank had a choice in what he said.   There was no other option. 

Superman said he talked about giving up play calling in the off season.   I'm guessing he read it somewhere this summer

[RollerColt]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Superman said he talked about giving up play calling in the off season.   I'm guessing he read it somewhere this summer

It was actually right after he was hired:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/frank-reich-i-will-call-offensive-plays-to-start-will-hand-it-off-at-some-point

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Superman said he talked about giving up play calling in the off season.   I'm guessing he read it somewhere this summer

Yes….  I’m sure he talked about giving it up at some point.   I just question that giving it up so soon, at 6-7 weeks into year one of your contract was the point.   That doesn’t strike me as likely.   
 

But I’d guess mine is a minority view in this.   

[Superman]

38 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Yes….  I’m sure he talked about giving it up at some point.   I just question that giving it up so soon, at 6-7 weeks into year one of your contract was the point.   That doesn’t strike me as likely.   
 

But I’d guess mine is a minority view in this.   

 

He said a few days ago that they had targeted the bye week all along. That could be spin, like you said, I'm not sure what else anyone would expect him to say at this point. 

 

I also question whether he'd be giving up play calling right now if the offense was running smoothly. Probably not... 

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He said a few days ago that they had targeted the bye week all along. That could be spin, like you said, I'm not sure what else anyone would expect him to say at this point. 

 

I also question whether he'd be giving up play calling right now if the offense was running smoothly. Probably not... 

 

Understood.    Even if I’m 100 percent wrong, that the owner ordered him to give it up now,  Frank’s circumstance has clearly forced his hand.  Everything has gone wrong for Carolina and Frank.   The season has been a disaster.  There wouldn’t be a compelling argument for Frank to keep calling the plays even if he wanted to.   The logical thing to do was to give it up now.  
 

Appreciate your input even when we don’t agree.  

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Understood.    Even if I’m 100 percent wrong, that the owner ordered him to give it up now,  Frank’s circumstance has clearly forced his hand.  Everything has gone wrong for Carolina and Frank.   The season has been a disaster.  There wouldn’t be a compelling argument for Frank to keep calling the plays even if he wanted to.   The logical thing to do was to give it up now.  
 

Appreciate your input even when we don’t agree.  

 

I think that's a reasonable position to take. But I said earlier in this thread, last year the Colts' offense was struggling, and rather than give up play calling, Reich fired his OC -- a move some people felt made a scapegoat out of Marcus Brady. A couple weeks later, Reich was fired. This year, the Panthers' offense is struggling, and Reich gives up play calling. 

 

There are a lot of differences in the circumstances, of course, but he's done the opposite of what he did last season. I think that's noteworthy.

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Understood.    Even if I’m 100 percent wrong, that the owner ordered him to give it up now,  Frank’s circumstance has clearly forced his hand.  Everything has gone wrong for Carolina and Frank.   The season has been a disaster.  There wouldn’t be a compelling argument for Frank to keep calling the plays even if he wanted to.   The logical thing to do was to give it up now.  
 

Appreciate your input even when we don’t agree.  

Where was it reported the owner forced his hand?

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Where was it reported the owner forced his hand?

I don’t know that it’s been officially reported, but there’s been much speculation in various media.   Rich Eisen and Dan Patrick were two that speculated.   
 

The owner, David Pepper has a reputation for being meddlesome, very hands on.   Far more than most owners.  

[RollerColt]

@Superman @NewColtsFan

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/frank-reich-i-will-call-offensive-plays-to-start-will-hand-it-off-at-some-point
 

Quote

Reich said “the right thing for me to do for our team and for our offense right now is for me to continue to kind of use my experience” as a play caller as he begins his tenure in Carolina, but that “there is going to be some point that I’m going to pass it off.” Reich said he knows that will be hard, but that it “will become apparent” when it is the right time to make that move and that he will lean heavily on Brown in other ways before any change in play calling procedures is made.
 

-February 2023

 

[jvan1973]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t know that it’s been officially reported, but there’s been much speculation in various media.   Rich Eisen and Dan Patrick were two that speculated.   
 

The owner, David Pepper has a reputation for being meddlesome, very hands on.   Far more than most owners.  

So why speculate?  Has Frank ever been accused of being a liar?    Frank is a godly man.   If he was forced he wouldn't lie about it

[DougDew]

On 10/28/2023 at 10:41 AM, Superman said:

 

We’ll probably never know how Reich got to the point where he was interested in giving up play calling. But when he was hired, he said it was something he wanted to do. If we take him at his word with no cynicism, then it would seem that it’s his decision. But that could be spin.

 

As for the rest, it seems like you drew a conclusion based on supposition, which turned out to be inaccurate. Why not fact check yourself?

Because this is a discussion forum, so I discuss things as if what I read is factual.  Nobody is making life decisions based upon what’s said here.  
 

Frankly I think it’s weird when someone does fact check football forum stuff. Especially when it involves a rather obscure subject. But thank you anyway. 
 

btw. In my 20k posts. I don’t think I’ve ever posted a link more than a handful of times. 

[DougDew]

21 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

It was his call.   He wasn't forced to hand over play calling

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/panthers-head-coach-frank-reich-hands-over-play-calling-duties-to-offensive-coor#:~:text=Amid an 0-6 start,Mike Garafolo reported on Monday.

I see he talked it over with the owner and gm before he did it. I wonder if going 0 and 6 was part of that plan  
 

Have you researched anything that tells us why he decided that he would hand it over this year and not any of the previous 6?   Like when he had siranni

 

Please research it and get back to me by 6pm.  I need to mow my lawn, then have beer and take a nap. 

 

[Superman]

On 10/29/2023 at 8:08 AM, DougDew said:

Because this is a discussion forum, so I discuss things as if what I read is factual.  Nobody is making life decisions based upon what’s said here.  
 

Frankly I think it’s weird when someone does fact check football forum stuff. Especially when it involves a rather obscure subject. But thank you anyway. 
 

btw. In my 20k posts. I don’t think I’ve ever posted a link more than a handful of times. 

 

I'm just gonna say this to make my point, and then I'm finished with this part of the conversation. Do you not see the problem with accusing other posters of hypocrisy when you don't care enough to check your facts beforehand? What good is your so-called "dispassionate reason" if it's based on inaccurate information?

 

On 10/27/2023 at 3:33 PM, DougDew said:

My agenda in this part of the thread is to point out the apparent hypocrisy of the Frank Blamers who might be giddy at the success CAR might have if they do better, but not realizing it took the (more observant?) CAR FO only six games to recognize the (potential) problem.    

 

As you know, I wasn't/am not a Frank Blamer, nor have I ever called for Ballard's firing.  I think you place me in one extreme.  

 

I think the issue is that I play it down the middle so much as the result of dispassionate reason that it aggravates those folks who do have a passionate agenda.

 

 

[Superman]

On 10/25/2023 at 7:58 AM, 1959Colts said:

 

 

I haven't watched the game, just saw some highlights. He had a great debut. It's gonna be hard for me if he goes out and finishes this season looking good, while our guy is on IR.

 

 

[ADnum1]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I haven't watched the game, just saw some highlights. He had a great debut. It's gonna be hard for me if he goes out and finishes this season looking good, while our guy is on IR.

I saw the game.  Levis was very good.

 

He worked within the offense, much of the time taking what the defense gave him with short passes.

 

He was going to his 3rd and even 4th read and took the deep shot with an effortless 50+ yard flick of the wrist in perfect stride to Hopkins who was in tight man coverage.

[husker61]

I guess levis should be added to this thread title.

 

against popular opinion here, maybe passing not running is more important to a nfl qb!

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, husker61 said:

against popular opinion here, maybe passing not running is more important to a nfl qb!

 

When has anyone ever suggested otherwise?

[DougDew]

20 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm just gonna say this to make my point, and then I'm finished with this part of the conversation. Do you not see the problem with accusing other posters of hypocrisy when you don't care enough to check your facts beforehand? What good is your so-called "dispassionate reason" if it's based on inaccurate information?

 

 

 

You take this football forum way too seriously then.   I'm not going to seek out the "credentialed class" for links about football stuff...especially obscure stuff about when the Owner and Frank had a discussion about his play calling in Carolina.  I've got naps to take.  
 

I based my opinion upon the information I read,  I didn't make it up.   I assure you that my opinion is correct about 90% of the time about everything in life if the information is sound to begin with.  I only bother to be sure about it when it really matter to me.   Goodness, what do you people spend your time doing?

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

You take this football forum way too seriously then.   I'm not going to seek out the "credentialed class" for links about football stuff...especially obscure stuff about when the Owner and Frank had a discussion about his play calling in Carolina.  I've got naps to take.  
 

I based my opinion upon the information I read,  I didn't make it up.   I assure you that my opinion is correct about 90% of the time about everything in life if the information is sound to begin with.  I only bother to be sure about it when it really matter to me.   Goodness, what do you people spend your time doing?

 

My question is pretty simple though. Do you think it's fair to hold yourself up as the standard of dispassionate reason, while accusing other posters of hypocrisy, if you don't know or even care to know the facts?

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

My question is pretty simple though. Do you think it's fair to hold yourself up as the standard of dispassionate reason, while accusing other posters of hypocrisy, if you don't know or even care to know the facts?

Its more of a statement than a question.  Its not a good question.  It takes my process relative to obscure topics and expands it into SOP about everything, then criticizes it to discount everything I say.  That's pretty obvious.

 

That dispassionate reasoning comment was in a convo between me and NCF, about his long standing view that I have some agenda (about Ballard vs Grigson I assume).  In the instances of his claiming that I'm passive-aggressive with his longstanding observations, I am much more certain of the facts because they involving topics that I care enough about to actually observe.   As a Colts fan, I observe the facts as they happen and have no need to research someone else's written link on the matter. 

 

I trust my own "biased" eyes, LOL, than the credentialed class' "unbiased" words I'm supposed to follow.  LOL.  Especially when it comes to stuff I take time to observe myself.  Franks playcalling at CAR is not one of those times.

 

 

 

[husker61]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

When has anyone ever suggested otherwise?

most here are in love with Richardson, I don’t think it’s because of his passing and reading defenses abilities. I don’t think he would have been a first round pick on those attributes.

[Superman]

28 minutes ago, husker61 said:

most here are in love with Richardson, I don’t think it’s because of his passing and reading defenses abilities. I don’t think he would have been a first round pick on those attributes.

 

How does that mean that anyone thinks passing isn't as important for an NFL QB as running?

[Colt.45]

 

[NFLfan]

2 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

 

 

What is "Passing Success Rate"? Completion percentage?

----

 

At the request of a Colts fan, I added Levis to the title.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I requested Levis be added to the title. He is a rookie and may play a few games coming up. Change has been made.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I love how the title changed. Lol. Steelers and titans play Thursday night with possibly no picket.

[Colt.45]

1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

 

What is "Passing Success Rate"? Completion percentage?

----

 

At the request of a Colts fan, I added Levis to the title.

 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

 

What is "Passing Success Rate"? Completion percentage?

----

 

At the request of a Colts fan, I added Levis to the title.

I watched the TEN/ATL game.  I can't tell you what PSR is, but I would say that his game was not very efficient.  

 

What I saw was a lot of Henry up the gut on 1st and 2nd down, and quite a few 3rd and longs.   Henry had a good day but he also got stuffed a lot as up the gut runners will do.  I doubt that TENs 3rd down conversion rate was very high.  Not a lot of sustained drives either.  The passing game was more explosive than efficient.

 

On the boundary passes. the WR screens and behind the LOS passes, ATL stuffed those very well. 

 

Levis was 18/28 I think I read.  Aside from those 4 TD passes, he had a typical meh rookie first day passing, IMO. 

 

Other things:  No picks.  Only one turnover worthy pass and it was as he was getting hit.  Looked poised.  Was was in command of the O.  A couple of times, the announcers mentioned that Levis checked into running plays that got first downs.  He looked like he belongs in the NFL.  But its one game.

 

[dw49]

7 hours ago, PRnum1 said:

I saw the game.  Levis was very good.

 

He worked within the offense, much of the time taking what the defense gave him with short passes.

 

He was going to his 3rd and even 4th read and took the deep shot with an effortless 50+ yard flick of the wrist in perfect stride to Hopkins who was in tight man coverage.

 

Good throw but Hopkins walled off the DB and may have given him a small shove. On another TD pass to Hopkins , he threw it behind him and Hopkins used his 14" inch hands to secure it. On those 2 passes , I believe most of the credit should go to Hopkins. Let's give him a few more games before we proclaim him the next Dan Marino.

[Boondoggle]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

Other things:  No picks.  Only one turnover worthy pass and it was as he was getting hit.  Looked poised.  Was was in command of the O.  A couple of times, the announcers mentioned that Levis checked into running plays that got first downs.  He looked like he belongs in the NFL.  But its one game.

He was well prepared by Liam Coen and that staff.  They had him running pro style elements (WCO offense and in his los reads) and it's why I said before that draft that he was the one if you wanted a QB to play quickly.

 

The way the NFL evaluated QBs last year was absolutely terrible.  As a group.  Young going 1 overall is divine comedy.  Colts took a big risk but at least their selection has the highest of upsides.  I'd hate to be a Carolina fan.

[Solid84]

7 hours ago, DougDew said:

I watched the TEN/ATL game.  I can't tell you what PSR is, but I would say that his game was not very efficient.  

 

What I saw was a lot of Henry up the gut on 1st and 2nd down, and quite a few 3rd and longs.   Henry had a good day but he also got stuffed a lot as up the gut runners will do.  I doubt that TENs 3rd down conversion rate was very high.  Not a lot of sustained drives either.  The passing game was more explosive than efficient.

 

On the boundary passes. the WR screens and behind the LOS passes, ATL stuffed those very well. 

 

Levis was 18/28 I think I read.  Aside from those 4 TD passes, he had a typical meh rookie first day passing, IMO. 

 

Other things:  No picks.  Only one turnover worthy pass and it was as he was getting hit.  Looked poised.  Was was in command of the O.  A couple of times, the announcers mentioned that Levis checked into running plays that got first downs.  He looked like he belongs in the NFL.  But its one game.

 

Yeah I watched the game last night, and I’d say this is pretty spot on. 
 

Explosive, not efficient. 

[Boondoggle]

What bothers me is of those TD passes three of them travelled a very long way in the air.  Have not seen that impressive of an initial outing for a rookie QB in a long time.  It's a really bad sign.

 

But they're playing Pittsburgh on Thurs night.  Hopefully the Steelers make him look like a rook, that's a tough defense to play as a QB as their secondary is solid and the rush is good, not to mention Tomlin usually gameplans well on defense.  There is certainly room for him to start looking like a rookie.

[chad72]

13 hours ago, Boondoggle said:

He was well prepared by Liam Coen and that staff.  They had him running pro style elements (WCO offense and in his los reads) and it's why I said before that draft that he was the one if you wanted a QB to play quickly.

 

The way the NFL evaluated QBs last year was absolutely terrible.  As a group.  Young going 1 overall is divine comedy.  Colts took a big risk but at least their selection has the highest of upsides.  I'd hate to be a Carolina fan.

 

They could have stayed at No.9 and told the Bears, no cigar for trade, and still drafted Levis. 

[Boondoggle]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

They could have stayed at No.9 and told the Bears, no cigar for trade, and still drafted Levis. 

Yeah it's painful because I knew Levis was being underestimated.  But what irked me the most was the Titans ending up with him.  Cannot stand that team.

 

But one game doesn't mean anything at this level.  Falcons were giving up single coverages in their gameplan.  Tomlin will mix it up on him and teach him a thing or two I'm sure.  This is a tough league for any rookie QB, even one who was well prepped for it.

[BProland85]

2 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

Yeah it's painful because I knew Levis was being underestimated.  But what irked me the most was the Titans ending up with him.  Cannot stand that team.

 

But one game doesn't mean anything at this level.  Falcons were giving up single coverages in their gameplan.  Tomlin will mix it up on him and teach him a thing or two I'm sure.  This is a tough league for any rookie QB, even one who was well prepped for it.

I won’t be able to stand the Titans even more if Levis ends up being good longterm. A big part of that is because Levis is cocky. I’ve already been sick of that with that team with Vrabel and Tannehill along with their fan base. 

[chad72]

10 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

Yeah it's painful because I knew Levis was being underestimated.  But what irked me the most was the Titans ending up with him.  Cannot stand that team.

 

But one game doesn't mean anything at this level.  Falcons were giving up single coverages in their gameplan.  Tomlin will mix it up on him and teach him a thing or two I'm sure.  This is a tough league for any rookie QB, even one who was well prepped for it.

 

He had a bye week to prepare for 1 team, short week vs Steelers' pass rush would be the literal opposite.   But I will be curious and watching.

[ADnum1]

21 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Wait a minute.

 

He threw for 4 touchdowns launching it deep down field.

 

How does that equate to "Lowest passing rate success" ?

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

Wait a minute.

 

He threw for 4 touchdowns launching it deep down field.

 

How does that equate to "Lowest passing rate success" ?

 

Like @DougDew and @Solid84 spoke, explosive but not efficient. 

 

However, there were a couple of throwaways he did that could have been disastrous to the plays that I could give him credit for. Levis is streaky, IMO, was so even in college. We saw more of the good of that "streaky" nature this last game. We might see the good, bad and ugly all together on TNF.  

[ADnum1]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Like @DougDew and @Solid84 spoke, explosive but not efficient. 

 

However, there were a couple of throwaways he did that could have been disastrous to the plays that I could give him credit for. Levis is streaky, IMO, was so even in college. We saw more of the good of that "streaky" nature this last game. We might see the good, bad and ugly all together on TNF.  

I have a strange feeling as soon as Tanny is healthy, he'll be the starting QB again.

 

Just a hunch