HC Search Discussion Thread

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

But the head coach should not be hired to be the offensive guy. He should be the leader of the whole team. 

 

I don't like head coaches calling plays or acting as GM ("buying the groceries"). I think their job should be the leader of the team. 

 

Now, you often read folks here say, draft Best Player Available (BPA) -- don't draft for need. In the same way, why don't fans want the best head coach as opposed to wanting a head coach with with a particular expertise (defensive or offensive background)? Serious question. @Superman 

 

Someone else answered, and nailed it. Assuming the Colts have a rookie QB, I'd like the HC to be offensive minded. First, he'll create an environment that helps the QB to succeed. For example, Brian Flores did not do anything to help Tua, and as soon as McDaniel shows up, suddenly Tua looks like an MVP candidate? That's probably an extreme example, but it makes the point clear. 

 

The second element is that an offensive minded HC is going to install an offensive system that will stay in place, even if the OC gets hired away by another team. For example, Bruce Arians leaves the Colts after one year, and we hire Pep Hamilton. So in his second season, Andrew Luck is working in a new offensive system, with a new play caller and new verbiage. In that case, Luck already knew the system, and he was really smart, but the rest of the team had to figure it out on the fly. A more extreme example is the Niners with Alex Smith, who had 6 different coordinators in his first 7 seasons. So the stability is the main reason there. 

[NFLfan]

3 minutes ago, aReggie7 said:

 

I totally agree.

 

I think NFL teams generally do a poor job of hiring head coaches. I often get the impression that they are hiring someone to be a coordinator first and then tacking on HC duties at the end. 

 

I would actually love to see the Colts take a look at some special team coordinators. I think they can be just as good of a HC as an OC or DC. The lack of S/T coordinators getting HC roles makes me suspect that you have a good chance of finding a darn good coach among them just based on the lack of teams that look in that direction. 

 

I think more Special Teams coaches should get head coaching jobs. One of the best coaches is John Harbaugh. When you watch him, you can tell that he focused on the whole team, not partial to defense or offense.

[Dark Superman]

Hopefully an offensive minded coach not named Jeff Saturday.

[Moosejawcolt]

3 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I think more Special Teams coaches should get head coaching jobs. One of the best coaches is John Harbaugh. When you watch him, you can tell that he focused on the whole team, not partial to defense or offense.

Well after watching Georgia crushing   TCU and Michigan losing to tem last week kind of soured me on Harbaugh.

[NFLfan]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Someone else answered, and nailed it. Assuming the Colts have a rookie QB, I'd like the HC to be offensive minded. First, he'll create an environment that helps the QB to succeed. For example, Brian Flores did not do anything to help Tua, and as soon as McDaniel shows up, suddenly Tua looks like an MVP candidate? That's probably an extreme example, but it makes the point clear. 

 

The second element is that an offensive minded HC is going to install an offensive system that will stay in place, even if the OC gets hired away by another team. For example, Bruce Arians leaves the Colts after one year, and we hire Pep Hamilton. So in his second season, Andrew Luck is working in a new offensive system, with a new play caller and new verbiage. In that case, Luck already knew the system, and he was really smart, but the rest of the team had to figure it out on the fly. A more extreme example is the Niners with Alex Smith, who had 6 different coordinators in his first 7 seasons. So the stability is the main reason there. 

 

I think Tua would have played better regardless of who was the head coach. He had more experience. Most QBs play better with more years under their belt. Just like Tua, Herbert has played better every year and he has a defensive head coach. He had an offensive head coach his rookie year. 

 

Stefanski is a former OC; that did not help Mayfield. Tannehill played better under defensive guy Vrabel than he did under the offensive-minded Adam Gase. I could go on and on. 

 

And look how well Allen is doing under a former DC McDermott.

 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I think Tua would have played better regardless of who was the head coach. He had more experience. Most QBs play better with more years under their belt. Just like Tua, Herbert has played better every year and he has a defensive head coach. He had an offensive head coach his rookie year. 

 

Stefanski is a former OC; that did not help Mayfield. Tannehill played better under defensive guy Vrabel than he did under the offensive-minded Adam Gase. I could go on and on. 

 

And look how well Allen is doing under a former DC McDermott.

 

I don't think Tua would have played better regardless. I think Tua looked incapable before this season. Coaching has made a huge difference. Not saying only an offensive minded HC could have helped him, but I do think McDaniel's experience on that side of the ball helped provide an environment more conducive to QB success.

 

I'm also not saying a young QB can only excel if he has an offensive HC. I'm saying I think that with all the variables considered, it's the best direction, and my preference.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I think Tua would have played better regardless of who was the head coach. He had more experience. Most QBs play better with more years under their belt. Just like Tua, Herbert has played better every year and he has a defensive head coach. He had an offensive head coach his rookie year. 

 

Stefanski is a former OC; that did not help Mayfield. Tannehill played better under defensive guy Vrabel than he did under the offensive-minded Adam Gase. I could go on and on. 

 

And look how well Allen is doing under a former DC McDermott.

 

Stefanski had mayfield playing the best ball of his career. 

[aReggie7]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Someone else answered, and nailed it. Assuming the Colts have a rookie QB, I'd like the HC to be offensive minded. First, he'll create an environment that helps the QB to succeed. For example, Brian Flores did not do anything to help Tua, and as soon as McDaniel shows up, suddenly Tua looks like an MVP candidate? That's probably an extreme example, but it makes the point clear. 

 

The second element is that an offensive minded HC is going to install an offensive system that will stay in place, even if the OC gets hired away by another team. For example, Bruce Arians leaves the Colts after one year, and we hire Pep Hamilton. So in his second season, Andrew Luck is working in a new offensive system, with a new play caller and new verbiage. In that case, Luck already knew the system, and he was really smart, but the rest of the team had to figure it out on the fly. A more extreme example is the Niners with Alex Smith, who had 6 different coordinators in his first 7 seasons. So the stability is the main reason there. 

 

I understand the desire for continuity but one of the most important jobs of being a HC is not only hiring but also maintaining a strong staff. You have to anticipate losing some coaches and have a succession plan in place. That's really in any business not just football. 

 

Losing coordinators isn't ideal but the real problem comes from failing to plan for it.

 

Historically Belichick has promoted guys from within. He screwed up the OC spot this past year but for the most part he has had someone ready to take over for a departing coordinator.

 

The Bills have a defensive minded HC and lost their OC last year but had the QB coach Dorsey ready to step into the OC role.

 

Hiring and maintaining a good staff is part of the job of being a HC. If the HC doesn't have a real plan for losing coordinators then he is failing at one of his most important duties as the HC.

 

JMO. 

 

 

[chad72]

8 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I think Tua would have played better regardless of who was the head coach. He had more experience. Most QBs play better with more years under their belt. Just like Tua, Herbert has played better every year and he has a defensive head coach. He had an offensive head coach his rookie year. 

 

Stefanski is a former OC; that did not help Mayfield. Tannehill played better under defensive guy Vrabel than he did under the offensive-minded Adam Gase. I could go on and on. 

 

And look how well Allen is doing under a former DC McDermott.

 

Peyton didn’t do better because he was paired with Dungy, he did better because he was told to trust his D from Dungy, had a good QB coach in Caldwell and lots of continuity with Tom Moore and Howard Mudd coaching the OL giving lots of continuity on the offensive side.

 

Similarly Josh Allen is doing well with McDermott because of the same reasons as above, with Brian Daboll now HC Of Giants and still a good OC with the Bills. However unlike the Chiefs and Bengals with offensive minded HCs calling plays, Josh Allen suffered from Daboll leaving, did you know he’s thrown the most INTs in the league? That’s the downside of a defensive HC, IMO since their OC will be poached if he’s any good.

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, aReggie7 said:

 

I understand the desire for continuity but one of the most important jobs of being a HC is not only hiring but also maintaining a strong staff. You have to anticipate losing some coaches and have a succession plan in place. That's really in any business not just football. 

 

Losing coordinators isn't ideal but the real problem comes from failing to plan for it.

 

Historically Belichick has promoted guys from within. He screwed up the OC spot this past year but for the most part he has had someone ready to take over for a departing coordinator.

 

The Bills have a defensive minded HC and lost their OC last year but had the QB coach Dorsey ready to step into the OC role.

 

Hiring and maintaining a good staff is part of the job of being a HC. If the HC doesn't have a real plan for losing coordinators then he is failing at one of his most important duties as the HC.

 

JMO. 

 

 

Yeah and the Bills are paying for it because the offense is still in flux and Allen has thrown the most INTs in the league this year, if I’m not mistaken. That has also led to a blessing in disguise where they are running the ball better.

[JColts72]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Denver is set to interview Harbaugh this week. Wonder what’s going on there with colts.  

Zip so far.

[Zoltan]

3 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

That’s all scheme that takes advantage of Allen’s talents.

As for the tweet I don't know the Jeff Risdon but Ben Johnson does call plays 

 

3 hours ago, JColts72 said:

No Kellen Moore or Eric from Chiefs yet.

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

He has interviewed with a lot of teams. rumors are he has character issues and does not interview well.

 

Yeah Eric Bienemy has a well documented history with assault (One being choking a woman) and a DUI. No team wants the PR backlash for hiring him as HC.

 

2 hours ago, stitches said:

I remember in Hard knocks people make huge fuss about one of their coordinators actually being super quiet and anonymous and they thought one of the position coaches was actually the coordinator. Was that Ben Johnson or the defensive coordinator?

 

It was Ben Johnson who was barely shown, which I'm guessing he just didn't want to be part of the circus that is hard knocks. They replaced him with Duce Staley who runs the 2nd team offense. That's why they showed him and Glenn going after each other. 

[aReggie7]

Just now, chad72 said:

Yeah and the Bills are paying for it because the offense is still in flux and Allen has thrown the most INTs in the league this year, if I’m not mistaken 

 

In general, what issues are the Bills having on offense this year that they didn't have last year? Just looking at some of their team stats and I don't see a dramatic difference in 2021 vs 2022. I know stats don't always tell the whole story though.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2021.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2022.htm

 

Regarding Josh Allen: 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3918298/josh-allen

 

Josh Allen threw 14 INTs in 2021 vs 15 in 2022. (playing 1 less game in 2022)

 

The league leaders in INTs are Mills and Dak with 15. Allen come in at 3rd. He was 3rd in INTs in 2021 with Daboll as the OC too.

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/passing/2022/REG/all/passinginterceptions/DESC

 

I wouldn't say the Bills are paying for it. 

 

I don't know all of the issues the Bills are having on offense but there are many variables that can impact that besides just losing Daboll and putting Dorsey in that spot. Just looking at some of Allen's stats I don't see some drop off with Dorsey.

 

 

One other thing, you mentioned Tony Dungy in another post. I think Dungy actually did help Peyton. One of the things that gets lost is Dungy was actually a QB in college. Tom Moore was actually his OC for a year or two when he was at the University of Minnesota. I just think that's worth noting about Dungy.

[NorthernColt]

I know everyone wants an offensive minded guy (as do I in a perfect world). But out of these guys, gimme Raheem Morris all day. Go look at the way his players talk about him, Ramsey too. He's been a part of a ton of top tier coaching staffs coming up. Great energy, great leader. Pair him with a young offensive guru at OC and I'm happy.

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, aReggie7 said:

 

I understand the desire for continuity but one of the most important jobs of being a HC is not only hiring but also maintaining a strong staff. You have to anticipate losing some coaches and have a succession plan in place. That's really in any business not just football. 

 

Losing coordinators isn't ideal but the real problem comes from failing to plan for it.

 

Historically Belichick has promoted guys from within. He screwed up the OC spot this past year but for the most part he has had someone ready to take over for a departing coordinator.

 

The Bills have a defensive minded HC and lost their OC last year but had the QB coach Dorsey ready to step into the OC role.

 

Hiring and maintaining a good staff is part of the job of being a HC. If the HC doesn't have a real plan for losing coordinators then he is failing at one of his most important duties as the HC.

 

JMO. 

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying. But at the same time, if we can create an environment that's set up to make things easier for the young QB, and to withstand inevitable changes that will happen in the future, why not try to do so? I'm stating my preference because I think those two elements are important.

 

Even if you have a great succession plan for your OC, it would still suck to make a change one or two years into a new QB's career. If you have a top-down set up, starting with the HC, then the shock is lessened.

 

I will say though, I think what the Colts did in setting up the offensive staff in 2012 and 2013 was not very smart. I don't think anyone expected Arians to get HC consideration, especially after one year; Arians was "retired" before Pagano called him, and said he had basically closed the door on the possibility of being a HC. But Pagano's unforeseeable illness created a unique situation. However, because of the dissonance between Pagano and Grigson (this might have been the first sign of it), they hired an OC who probably wasn't ready, and who installed an entirely different offense.

 

What they could have done is hired an OC who ran the same offense Arians did. Or better yet, had a Jr OC already on staff who was ready to be promoted and take over if Arians ever left. And in that way, like you said, no matter who the HC is, the team needs to have a succession plan, with a strong pipeline of offensive coaches who can step up if the need arises. 

 

But there's still the matter of the environment, which I feel would be more QB friendly under an offensive minded HC. 

[NFLfan]

40 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think Tua would have played better regardless. I think Tua looked incapable before this season. Coaching has made a huge difference. Not saying only an offensive minded HC could have helped him, but I do think McDaniel's experience on that side of the ball helped provide an environment more conducive to QB success.

 

I'm also not saying a young QB can only excel if he has an offensive HC. I'm saying I think that with all the variables considered, it's the best direction, and my preference.

 

Okay. It just seems completely against your argument that a team should pick BPA as opposed to drafting for need. Why not hire best coach available?

[NFLfan]

42 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Peyton didn’t do better because he was paired with Dungy, he did better because he was told to trust his D from Dungy, had a good QB coach in Caldwell and lots of continuity with Tom Moore and Howard Mudd coaching the OL giving lots of continuity on the offensive side.

 

Similarly Josh Allen is doing well with McDermott because of the same reasons as above, with Brian Daboll now HC Of Giants and still a good OC with the Bills. However unlike the Chiefs and Bengals with offensive minded HCs calling plays, Josh Allen suffered from Daboll leaving, did you know he’s thrown the most INTs in the league? That’s the downside of a defensive HC, IMO since their OC will be poached if he’s any good.

 

I don't blame the INTs on a change of coaching. In my profession, we believe that correlation does not mean causation. Cousins had better QB stats under defensive head coach Mike Zimmer than he has under Kevin O'Connell. I don't think that means we should bring back Zimmer.

 

Reich was an offensive coach.

[aReggie7]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying. But at the same time, if we can create an environment that's set up to make things easier for the young QB, and to withstand inevitable changes that will happen in the future, why not try to do so? I'm stating my preference because I think those two elements are important.

 

Even if you have a great succession plan for your OC, it would still suck to make a change one or two years into a new QB's career. If you have a top-down set up, starting with the HC, then the shock is lessened.

 

I will say though, I think what the Colts did in setting up the offensive staff in 2012 and 2013 was not very smart. I don't think anyone expected Arians to get HC consideration, especially after one year; Arians was "retired" before Pagano called him, and said he had basically closed the door on the possibility of being a HC. But Pagano's unforeseeable illness created a unique situation. However, because of the dissonance between Pagano and Grigson (this might have been the first sign of it), they hired an OC who probably wasn't ready, and who installed an entirely different offense.

 

What they could have done is hired an OC who ran the same offense Arians did. Or better yet, had a Jr OC already on staff who was ready to be promoted and take over if Arians ever left. And in that way, like you said, no matter who the HC is, the team needs to have a succession plan, with a strong pipeline of offensive coaches who can step up if the need arises. 

 

But there's still the matter of the environment, which I feel would be more QB friendly under an offensive minded HC. 

 

I think the best thing to do to set up any young QB for success is to hire the person who you think will be the best HC. I think that candidates should be judged based on the criteria of what it takes to be a good HC. I think it's much more of a CEO/executive type of role. I don't view having an offensive background as part of that criteria.

 

Now, I would absolutely still interview and consider guys with offensive backgrounds. If the person I thought would make the best HC had an offensive background then I am all for it. It's just not the offensive background that would make me want to hire someone. I was in that camp in 2018 and I think that was a mistake.

 

I will say that if I was doing the interviewing and was speaking with a defensive coach I would absolutely be grilling them about the how they will handle hiring, developing, and maintaining a strong staff. How Pagano handled the OC position in Indy and Dan Quinn in Atlanta wouldn't fly with me. Not at all.

 

Like you said Pagano didn't anticipate losing Arians. If that was the type of answer given during an interview, well we are going to hire ___ to be the OC and I don't think or I don't anticipate losing him, then that kind of thinking is going to cut it from someone i'm interviewing for a 7 figure salary.

 

I do agree that you want to have stability at that spot. You can't expect a QB to succeed without it. I just think the stability will ultimately come from hiring a HC regardless of his background. 

 

I am totally fine with having another offensive minded coach. I just want the reasons for hiring him to be because he has the HC qualities. 

 

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Stefanski had mayfield playing the best ball of his career. 

Mayfield's previous head coaches were also offensive minded coaches. He got cut twice. 

 

59 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Josh Allen suffered from Daboll leaving, did you know he’s thrown the most INTs in the league?

 

I looked up his stats -- it says 14 INTs this year. That is fewer than 1 per game. He had 15 INTs last year with Daboll as OC. I did not check every QB's stats but I see that Prescott has 15 INTs. Cousins and Carr also had 14. Maybe I missed something..

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

Mayfield's previous head coaches were also offensive minded coaches. He got cut twice. 

 

 

I looked up his stats -- it says 14 INTs. That is fewer than 1 per game. I did not check every QB's stats but I see that Prescott has 15 INTs. Cousins also has 14. Did I miss something?

Mayfield got hurt or he would of had Browns back in the playoffs. Between that and Covid browns fell off a cliff in 21  I just think he got a raw deal in Cleveland.

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Okay. It just seems completely against your argument that a team should pick BPA as opposed to drafting for need. Why not hire best coach available?

 

Hiring a coach and drafting player prospects is not the same thing. I don't think the comparison tracks. Hiring a coach relates more closely to signing free agents, in which case you're looking for something in particular to address a roster need.

 

As for hiring the best coach available, I don't think it's as simple as that. Recent events have me wondering what exactly it is that makes a good coach, and how best to find them. I don't think any hiring process, formula, strategy, etc., has proven to be better or worse than any others. I think the best coach available is Sean Payton, but I think there are some teams that are probably not a good fit for him right now (for example, the Rams, if they embark on a full rebuild). 

 

For the defensive guys who are currently connected with the Colts, I'm not excited about them. Leslie Frazier and Raheem Morris are retreads who didn't have great showings in their last jobs. Aaron Glenn has been in charge of a bad defense in Detroit. So I don't see any of them as strong candidates.

 

But regarding Aaron Glenn... One of the ideas I'm challenging in my own mind is that a team should find a guy who has been a successful coordinator for another team, and expect him to do well as a HC. I think some of the traits that make a coach successful as a coordinator are not really relevant to being a good HC. And we've seen a ton of good coordinators fail as HC, for a variety of reasons. So I think it's clearly possible for a coach to be a coordinator of a unit that isn't doing all that well, but still possess traits that will help him succeed as a HC. But I'm still not excited about a guy who is responsible for one of the league's worst defenses. (He's also a 3-4 DC, and I don't want us to switch to a 3-4; it's eyebrow-raising that Ballard would even consider him.) If we're going to talk about a defensive candidate, I want it to be Demeco Ryans or Jonathan Gannon. 

[Superman]

12 minutes ago, aReggie7 said:

I think the best thing to do to set up any young QB for success is to hire the person who you think will be the best HC. I think that candidates should be judged based on the criteria of what it takes to be a good HC. I think it's much more of a CEO/executive type of role. I don't view having an offensive background as part of that criteria.

 

Well, let's advance the discussion past offensive vs defensive. What do you feel are the relevant criteria? What traits should a candidate have for you to believe they can succeed as a HC?

[Superman]

18 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

Mayfield's previous head coaches were also offensive minded coaches. He got cut twice. 

 

 

I looked up his stats -- it says 14 INTs this year. That is fewer than 1 per game. He had 15 INTs last year with Daboll as OC. I did not check every QB's stats but I see that Prescott has 15 INTs. Cousins and Carr also had 14. Maybe I missed something..

 

 

I think Josh Allen had a stretch of four or five games this year where he wasn't playing very well, efficiency dropped, he had a rash of turnovers, etc. He kind of looked like the version of himself from his first two seasons. And it's not hard to imagine that there were some growing pains with a new OC, but the story is probably more complicated than that.

 

But what Buffalo did with their staff is create an obvious succession plan. Dorsey was the QB coach, had been working closely with Daboll and Allen the entire time, so the transition was clean and easy. They showed how it should be done. (They didn't have a rookie QB when they hired McDermott, though.) If the Colts hire a defensive HC, this succession plan is absolutely necessary. Reich tried to do this with Sirianni and Brady, but things didn't work out so well...

[NFLfan]

22 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Hiring a coach and drafting player prospects is not the same thing. I don't think the comparison tracks. Hiring a coach relates more closely to signing free agents, in which case you're looking for something in particular to address a roster need.

 

As for hiring the best coach available, I don't think it's as simple as that. Recent events have me wondering what exactly it is that makes a good coach, and how best to find them. I don't think any hiring process, formula, strategy, etc., has proven to be better or worse than any others. I think the best coach available is Sean Payton, but I think there are some teams that are probably not a good fit for him right now (for example, the Rams, if they embark on a full rebuild). 

 

For the defensive guys who are currently connected with the Colts, I'm not excited about them. Leslie Frazier and Raheem Morris are retreads who didn't have great showings in their last jobs. Aaron Glenn has been in charge of a bad defense in Detroit. So I don't see any of them as strong candidates.

 

But regarding Aaron Glenn... One of the ideas I'm challenging in my own mind is that a team should find a guy who has been a successful coordinator for another team, and expect him to do well as a HC. I think some of the traits that make a coach successful as a coordinator are not really relevant to being a good HC. And we've seen a ton of good coordinators fail as HC, for a variety of reasons. So I think it's clearly possible for a coach to be a coordinator of a unit that isn't doing all that well, but still possess traits that will help him succeed as a HC. But I'm still not excited about a guy who is responsible for one of the league's worst defenses. (He's also a 3-4 DC, and I don't want us to switch to a 3-4; it's eyebrow-raising that Ballard would even consider him.) If we're going to talk about a defensive candidate, I want it to be Demeco Ryans or Jonathan Gannon. 

 

I like Ryans very much. I don't like Frazier as head coach -- I think he is best at being a DC. He seems too meek (for lack of a better word). I do buy into the idea that a head coach has to be a leader and has show it (like Saturday but someone experienced). Frazier does not project that. Aaron Glenn seems to. I have no problem with retreads; I like Dan Quinn.

 

I forgot to mention Hackett being hired because of his experience on the offensive side of the game. He did not work out so well. 

[NFLfan]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

But what Buffalo did with their staff is create an obvious succession plan. Dorsey was the QB coach, had been working closely with Daboll and Allen the entire time, so the transition was clean and easy. They showed how it should be done. (They didn't have a rookie QB when they hired McDermott, though.) If the Colts hire a defensive HC, this succession plan is absolutely necessary. Reich tried to do this with Sirianni and Brady, but things didn't work out so well...

 

Allen was drafted after McDermott's first year. His being a defensive coach did not hurt the rookie QB. He has progressed to be one of the top QBs. This idea that an offensive head coach is necessary for the growth of a QB is not supported by evidence. There should be a QB coach and an OC to work with the rookie QB. 

 

Btw, Allen's stats this past season are not that different from those of 2021. They are almost identical. The succession plan is great. That is what other teams should do. 

 

What do you think of Ryans as head coach with a guy like Josh McCown as QB coach or OC? I am a huge fan of Josh McCown. He will be a great head coach one day. JMO

[aReggie7]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Well, let's advance the discussion past offensive vs defensive. What do you feel are the relevant criteria? What traits should a candidate have for you to believe they can succeed as a HC?

 

I will try to keep it short. I put 10 things into two categories. (Management/Leadership and Football)

 

Management/Leadership: 

• Accountability - Has to be someone who will hold the staff and players accountable.
• Staff Management - Hire, develop, and maintain a strong staff.
• Communication - Have to keep coaches and players engaged / interested, make sure everyone is on the same page, the message is clear.
• Big Picture Thinker - Must be able to see the entirety of the football team and not get lost in the details. (not saying details don't matter though)
• Prepared - The HC has to ensure that everyone involved is prepared. 

 

Football: 

• Game management - Deciding when to go for it on 4th down, go for 2 vs kick the XP, aggressive vs conservative, etc. 
• Strategy of Xs and Os - There is a lot that can go in here but I am thinking of self scouting, evolving your schemes, properly utilizing players and maximizing their strengths, etc.
• Teaching - This can probably go in either category but I am putting it here. They must be a good teacher. People learn differently, can't overload people with too much information, sometimes people don't know what they don't understand so a good teacher can help uncover that.
• Scouting - Scouting opponents and identifying the most important  situations/concepts that you need to prepare your team for.
• Meetings/Practices - How will the practices and meetings be organized and ran? 

 

Those are the areas that come to mind when I think about what we should look for in a HC. Some are really intertwined. From the outside it's impossible to judge candidates on a lot of these things. No candidate is going to check every box but these are along the lines of what I would look for in a HC and topics I would want to dive deep into during the interview process. 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

This idea that an offensive head coach is necessary for the growth of a QB is not supported by evidence.

 

There's not a lot of evidence about any particular kind of HC candidate that is successful. 

 

But I'm not saying it's necessary. I'm saying I think it's ideal. 

[NFLfan]

6 minutes ago, aReggie7 said:

 

I will try to keep it short. I put 10 things into two categories. (Management/Leadership and Football)

 

Management/Leadership: 

• Accountability - Has to be someone who will hold the staff and players accountable.
• Staff Management - Hire, develop, and maintain a strong staff.
• Communication - Have to keep coaches and players engaged / interested, make sure everyone is on the same page, the message is clear.
• Big Picture Thinker - Must be able to see the entirety of the football team and not get lost in the details. (not saying details don't matter though)
• Prepared - The HC has to ensure that everyone involved is prepared. 

 

Football: 

• Game management - Deciding when to go for it on 4th down, go for 2 vs kick the XP, aggressive vs conservative, etc. 
• Strategy of Xs and Os - There is a lot that can go in here but I am thinking of self scouting, evolving your schemes, properly utilizing players and maximizing their strengths, etc.
• Teaching - This can probably go in either category but I am putting it here. They must be a good teacher. People learn differently, can't overload people with too much information, sometimes people don't know what they don't understand so a good teacher can help uncover that.
• Scouting - Scouting opponents and identifying the most important  situations/concepts that you need to prepare your team for.
• Meetings/Practices - How will the practices and meetings be organized and ran? 

 

Those are the areas that come to mind when I think about what we should look for in a HC. Some are really intertwined. From the outside it's impossible to judge candidates on a lot of these things. No candidate is going to check every box but these are along the lines of what I would look for in a HC and topics I would want to dive deep into during the interview process. 

 

This is great!

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, aReggie7 said:

 

I will try to keep it short. I put 10 things into two categories. (Management/Leadership and Football)

 

Management/Leadership: 

• Accountability - Has to be someone who will hold the staff and players accountable.
• Staff Management - Hire, develop, and maintain a strong staff.
• Communication - Have to keep coaches and players engaged / interested, make sure everyone is on the same page, the message is clear.
• Big Picture Thinker - Must be able to see the entirety of the football team and not get lost in the details. (not saying details don't matter though)
• Prepared - The HC has to ensure that everyone involved is prepared. 

 

Football: 

• Game management - Deciding when to go for it on 4th down, go for 2 vs kick the XP, aggressive vs conservative, etc. 
• Strategy of Xs and Os - There is a lot that can go in here but I am thinking of self scouting, evolving your schemes, properly utilizing players and maximizing their strengths, etc.
• Teaching - This can probably go in either category but I am putting it here. They must be a good teacher. People learn differently, can't overload people with too much information, sometimes people don't know what they don't understand so a good teacher can help uncover that.
• Scouting - Scouting opponents and identifying the most important  situations/concepts that you need to prepare your team for.
• Meetings/Practices - How will the practices and meetings be organized and ran? 

 

Those are the areas that come to mind when I think about what we should look for in a HC. Some are really intertwined. From the outside it's impossible to judge candidates on a lot of these things. No candidate is going to check every box but these are along the lines of what I would look for in a HC and topics I would want to dive deep into during the interview process. 

 

I'm gonna reply to some of this later. But can you think of any examples of coaches who check several of these boxes for you?

[NewColtsFan]

56 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Hiring a coach and drafting player prospects is not the same thing. I don't think the comparison tracks. Hiring a coach relates more closely to signing free agents, in which case you're looking for something in particular to address a roster need.

 

As for hiring the best coach available, I don't think it's as simple as that. Recent events have me wondering what exactly it is that makes a good coach, and how best to find them. I don't think any hiring process, formula, strategy, etc., has proven to be better or worse than any others. I think the best coach available is Sean Payton, but I think there are some teams that are probably not a good fit for him right now (for example, the Rams, if they embark on a full rebuild). 

 

For the defensive guys who are currently connected with the Colts, I'm not excited about them. Leslie Frazier and Raheem Morris are retreads who didn't have great showings in their last jobs. Aaron Glenn has been in charge of a bad defense in Detroit. So I don't see any of them as strong candidates.

 

But regarding Aaron Glenn... One of the ideas I'm challenging in my own mind is that a team should find a guy who has been a successful coordinator for another team, and expect him to do well as a HC. I think some of the traits that make a coach successful as a coordinator are not really relevant to being a good HC. And we've seen a ton of good coordinators fail as HC, for a variety of reasons. So I think it's clearly possible for a coach to be a coordinator of a unit that isn't doing all that well, but still possess traits that will help him succeed as a HC. But I'm still not excited about a guy who is responsible for one of the league's worst defenses. (He's also a 3-4 DC, and I don't want us to switch to a 3-4; it's eyebrow-raising that Ballard would even consider him.) If we're going to talk about a defensive candidate, I want it to be Demeco Ryans or Jonathan Gannon. 

For whatever it’s worth….   Over on the Lions website, their depth chart shows the lions play a 4-2-5 .  
 

Not sure where the 3-4 reference came from? 
 

 

[aReggie7]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I'm gonna reply to some of this later. But can you think of any examples of coaches who check several of these boxes for you?

 

I think these guys cover several of those boxes:

 

Tony Dungy

 

He didn't have a hostile personality but the sense I get is Dungy was willing to have some tough conversations and hold people accountable.

 

I think he was strong with staff management. Probably more so in Tampa though. 

 

He seems like he had good communication skills and a clear message. 

 

I think he was a good teacher. That's one of the things I know he has said he looked for when hiring assistants. 

 

I will say I don't think what Dungy did from a strategy standpoint would work as well today. I think he would have to evolve from that standpoint.

 

Of course i'm biased on this one.

 

Bill Belichick

 

As much as I hate to put his name here I do think he checks several of the boxes I listed especially the ones around strategy and scouting. Belichick has his core philosophy but he has evolved and adapted to his personnel over the years.

 

Now, if it wasn't for Tom Brady coming along i'm not sure if Belichick would have lasted long in New England as I think they were off to a rough start his first season or two. I think the winning enabled him to overcome his lack of people skills because without the winning I think the perception of Belichick would be what it was after his tenure in Cleveland. 

 

 

I'm not going to go into the details at this hour but my perception is that John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, and Andy Reid would check a fair number of those boxes too.

 

[King Colt]

9 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Rome is a jerk.  He’s dropped a few pegs as a sports commentator.  Surprised he is still on the air anywhere.  His radio show was dropped here long ago.  I don’t even know if he is on the air.  Must be if you posted this.

CBS Sports Channel 221 on Directv every weekday and radio in many states/cities.

[Timeout]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think Tua would have played better regardless. I think Tua looked incapable before this season. Coaching has made a huge difference. Not saying only an offensive minded HC could have helped him, but I do think McDaniel's experience on that side of the ball helped provide an environment more conducive to QB success.

 

I'm also not saying a young QB can only excel if he has an offensive HC. I'm saying I think that with all the variables considered, it's the best direction, and my preference.

I laugh, Dolphins were only winning with TUA but just my speculation... and 

[Timeout]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I'm gonna reply to some of this later. But can you think of any examples of coaches who check several of these boxes for you?

Speculation @Superman HARBAUGH!!!!

[Dark Superman]

I'm praying it's not Jeff Saturday or Leslie Frazier. Chris Ballard hasn't earned my trust when it comes to picking a head coach, among many other things while becoming the Colts GM in 2017.

[Timeout]

@SupermanHarbaugh time!!! You ready for him??? But my sources are speculation

[strt182]

Jeff has not disclosed any of people who he could bring in. From the pressers and the players feedback I like what i hear from Jeff.  Jeff's hands were pretty much tied coming in as interm. If you listened to his pressers then you probably heard the same things i heard.  I would love to see all the crow guys would eat on here if Jeff gets the job and the Colts win the division next year.  I never really take anything for granted except 17 games will be played. 

 

I would like to see the list of people Jeff would bring in around him to be OC/DC. Gus could be retained. We didn't hear much about John  Fox this year. 

 

I know this is like beating a dead horse but would be hilarious if Jeff got the job Ballard stepped down PM became the GM,  ( I like Ballard ) . Jeff hires Edge are rb coach . Marvin comes in as OC. Mathis becomes the DC.   

[Timeout]

58 minutes ago, Timeout said:

@SupermanHarbaugh time!!! You ready for him??? But my sources are speculation

Just kidding with you bud.... but really Harbaugh is coming..lol

[JColts72]

3 hours ago, Dark Superman said:

I'm praying it's not Jeff Saturday or Leslie Frazier. Chris Ballard hasn't earned my trust when it comes to picking a head coach, among many other things while becoming the Colts GM in 2017.

No confidence in him about his search, FA plans and screwing up 4th pick.

 

[crazycolt1]

Oh no! The Colts whole world is ending. I have nothing to look forward to. Being Ballard is so bad might as well quit being a football fan.