Wentz’s struggles as of late

[NewColtsFan]

17 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It seems like the only WR that Wentz is comfortable with is Pittman, we definitely need another good WR or a great TE.

For me, it’s not one or the other, it’s both, wide receiver and tight end.  And while I’d love a great tight end, I’d be very happy with simply a good tight end, blocking is always going to be a key component for a Colt’s tight end. 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This is one reason this was a learning year for the offense. Now they have a year they have seen Wentz strengths and they can go get the weapons to fit his strengths as a QB. There wasn’t much they could do this past offseason.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

For me, it’s not one or the other, it’s both, wide receiver and tight end.  And while I’d love a great tight end, I’d be very happy with simply a good tight end, blocking is always going to be a key component for a Colt’s tight end. 

 

Notice how comfy Wentz was throwing to Doyle in the Tampa game. Doyle had his best passing game of the year. Maybe we need to get Doyle involved more in the passing game.

[Fisticuffs111]

10 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Notice how comfy Wentz was throwing to Doyle in the Tampa game. Doyle had his best passing game of the year. Maybe we need to get Doyle involved more in the passing game.

Doyle’s been the other security blanket all year for sure. Think it was that Tampa game where he hit him for several 3rd and longs. 
 

But he could very well not be back next season. Wentz has gone to Mo in a couple key situations the past couple weeks but that won’t be who you want as a TE 1.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Doyle’s been the other security blanket all year for sure. Think it was that Tampa game where he hit him for several 3rd and longs. 
 

But he could very well not be back next season. Wentz has gone to Mo in a couple key situations the past couple weeks but that won’t be who you want as a TE 1.

Just talking about this season and the games we have left. I won’t be surprised if colts go get Ertz this offseason and Doyle retires.

[IrsaysArmy]

Are we ever going to see a deep ball to Michael Pittman Jr again this season?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, IrsaysArmy said:

Are we ever going to see a deep ball to Michael Pittman Jr again this season?

True. We also haven’t seen him lob any up lately for Pittman to just go up and get. 
 

I am still standing by we have become too  predictable since the Tampa game. It is catching up with us.  We need more variety in play calling.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I was just noticing Zach Ertz  has almost 700 yards this season between eagles and cardinals. That is something we could really use and Wentz already has chemistry with him.

[pogi]

You guys can talk about getting better WRs or TEs all you want...but it won't matter if Wentz is throwing either over their head, or at their feet  (both which he's done alot all season long)

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

It's in part why the Colts are near the bottom of the league in YAC (credit to the Twitter post in this thread).

 

Last season, they were near the top 5...and were tied for 2nd in the NFL in YAC/completion. 

 

Rivers exceled at the short routes and used his checkdowns religiously. Wentz, on the other hand, has had struggles throwing those routes and doesn't seem to utilize his checkdown as often (a criticism that actually dates back to his entire time in PHI).

 

This is a limited passing offense right now.

 

Brady said today the reason YAC is down this year is because the quarterbacks are different.  Rivers was completing short passes and the receivers added the yards. This year we are going downfield more with Wentz hitting deeper receivers.  His receivers are getting tackled right away for the most part.  That’s how he explained it.

 

 

[Mighty Blue]

23 hours ago, Smonroe said:

Interesting comment I heard on Kevin and Query this morning. 

 

Someone asked if the game plan they used was what was the one if Sam was going to be QB.  It sure seemed that way.

 

The concerning thing to me is that Carson doesn't seem to be throwing long very well.  Those 50/50 deep balls were a staple of the passing game earlier.  That fluke TD was an under thrown ball into double coverage. 

 

Hopefully, it was just rust and he lights up the Jags.

Hmmm?, 50/50?…Hmmm? Mr. Wentz came to us kinda broken. Time heals all wounds with potential for aches and pains that don’t go away. All the Icy Hot with Lidocaine, CBD, pain control injections, and oral pain meds might help any NFL player today.

But when the second half starts that’s when the other team plays better than we do. Here is my idea…let’s have a different second half team with a fresh quarterback and OL? No, I am not crazy just a visionary that can make people (Colts staff) think about changing things up.(Ok, now that I reread it, it does sound crazy)Let’s put in the backup QB more often each quarter.

Let’s take it a step forward…hey starters, how tired and hurt are in the fourth quarter? Can’t wait until the game is over? How many guys on the bench don’t play because they are second string(oops, maybe I shouldn’t say that). These guys want to play.

Well, Mr Wentz

We know you are not a cry baby like some quarterbacks but those cry babies got things changed. Let’s hear your ROAR 

Play calling has been criticized…do the analyst/strategists/pencil pushers need rebooting? Something needs to be fixed.

If you need back up, just follow-up on reviewing comments from the Forum………………………………………………Am I expecting too much?

 

 

[richard pallo]

6 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I was just noticing Zach Ertz  has almost 700 yards this season between eagles and cardinals. That is something we could really use and Wentz already has chemistry with him.

I would welcome him with open arms no matter his age.  He is still a go to playmaker that would be a difference maker for us next year.   If an older tight end like Gronk is good for Brady Then Ertz should be ideal for Wentz.  

[Smonroe]

4 minutes ago, Colts Fan in Arizona said:

Hmmm?, 50/50?…Hmmm? Mr. Wentz came to us kinda broken. Time heals all wounds with potential for aches and pains that don’t go away. All the Icy Hot with Lidocaine, CBD, pain control injections, and oral pain meds might help any NFL player today.

But when the second half starts that’s when the other team plays better than we do. Here is my idea…let’s have a different second half team with a fresh quarterback and OL? No, I am not crazy just a visionary that can make people (Colts staff) think about changing things up.(Ok, now that I reread it, it does sound crazy)Let’s put in the backup QB more often each quarter.

Let’s take it a step forward…hey starters, how tired and hurt are in the fourth quarter? Can’t wait until the game is over? How many guys on the bench don’t play because they are second string(oops, maybe I shouldn’t say that). These guys want to play.

Well, Mr Wentz

We know you are not a cry baby like some quarterbacks but those cry babies got things changed. Let’s hear your ROAR 

Play calling has been criticized…do the analyst/strategists/pencil pushers need rebooting? Something needs to be fixed.

If you need back up, just follow-up on reviewing comments from the Forum………………………………………………Am I expecting too much?

 

 

 

We don't use the word "crazy" here.  But I can think of a lot of a lot of synonyms.

 

As for the last bolded question - Probably.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

I would welcome him with open arms no matter his age.  He is still a go to playmaker that would be a difference maker for us next year.   If an older tight end like Gronk is good for Brady Then Ertz should be ideal for Wentz.  

He doesn’t seem to be slowing down.

 

I was curious about Eagles in 2017. This confirms stuff Brady said today. You don’t see too many crossers ECT. It’s all down field passing. Going to have to really retool this off season to fit his strengths. Maybe Reich can get his quick game improving a little too.

 

 

[IrsaysArmy]

56 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

True. We also haven’t seen him lob any up lately for Pittman to just go up and get. 
 

I am still standing by we have become too  predictable since the Tampa game. It is catching up with us.  We need more variety in play calling.

You have made some Good points since Sunday. We’re too predictable and Wentz hasn’t been able to get into a rhythm. Frank will have to make some adjustments. If he does, I’ll regain my confidence in this squad. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Wentzszn said:

Notice how comfy Wentz was throwing to Doyle in the Tampa game. Doyle had his best passing game of the year. Maybe we need to get Doyle involved more in the passing game.

The reason he’s not more involved is he’s hurt.   I think it’s a knee.   But he went out early in the Arizona game.   I think his snap count was limited for the LV game.   And certainly his effectiveness is down.   He’s way less than 100 percent.   

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

The reason he’s not more involved is he’s hurt.   I think it’s a knee.   But he went out early in the Arizona game.   I think his snap count was limited for the LV game.   And certainly his effectiveness is down.   He’s way less than 100 percent.   

He only played 22% of snaps in the raiders game. We should at least find Granson more passing opportunities. I think Doyle has had the ankle for awhile. Then he also hurt the knee in AZ.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This is interesting. Maybe would give us some more cap space.

 

 

[Catloaf]

5 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

This is interesting. Maybe would give us some more cap space.

 

 

He definitely doesn’t deserve to make more than Rodgers and most of the QBs on that list.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, Catloaf said:

He definitely doesn’t deserve to make more than Rodgers and most of the QBs on that list.

I  don’t think it will be much different then what he is making now. But a new contract could spread it out with a signing bonus. Therefore creating some extra cap space.  

[Fisticuffs111]

Thing about getting Wentz more than 30 passes a game is that we’re 3-5 when he’s at 30+ attempts.

 

I agree with Reich that it’s more about getting him in a groove with those 25ish pass attempts. Which, as a coach he’s gotta do better.
 

But I’d also say for Reich that it’s hard to get a QB into a rhythm when that QB doesn’t excel in shorter routes. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, Fisticuffs111 said:

Thing about getting Wentz more than 30 passes a game is that we’re 3-5 when he’s at 30+ attempts.

 

I agree with Reich that it’s more about getting him in a groove with those 25ish pass attempts. Which, as a coach he’s gotta do better. But I’d also say for Reich that it’s hard to get a QB into a rhythm when your QB doesn’t excel in shorter routes.

Yes this is correct. It’s not about getting him more pass attempts.  We need to use no huddle more. Maybe more designed plays where it’s specially designed to go to one person in a quick matter. Don’t leave it up to the QB. 

 

Reich mentioned it hurts the run game if you use no huddle. Can someone explain to me why yiu can’t run ball using no huddle?

[Flash7]

28 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

He doesn’t seem to be slowing down.

 

I was curious about Eagles in 2017. This confirms stuff Brady said today. You don’t see too many crossers ECT. It’s all down field passing. Going to have to really retool this off season to fit his strengths. Maybe Reich can get his quick game improving a little too.

 

 

Here's what I noticed from this video:

 

1. It's a highlight reel, so it doesn't show Wentz making routine throws in order to determine his mechanics and accuracy. But it does show that Wentz has the ability to make some "wow" plays.

 

2. Most of the highlights came when the plays broke down and he had to escape the pocket and make a throw on the move.

 

3. I counted only 10 times (out of 50+ throws) when he threw the ball on time, and most of those instances where 9 routes (go deep). He took the snap from the shotgun, took 1-drop step and released the ball. This requires a pre-snap read of the defense, verifying that his primary receiver has 1-on-1 coverage, and then throwing the ball to a spot.

 

4. When he had to read defenses after the snap, he held onto the ball for long periods of time, the pocket collapsed, he escaped the pocket and made his throw. As a QB, you cannot rely on ad-libs, which Wentz does too often. Sometimes good, sometimes bad.

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Thing about getting Wentz more than 30 passes a game is that we’re 3-5 when he’s at 30+ attempts.

 

I agree with Reich that it’s more about getting him in a groove with those 25ish pass attempts. Which, as a coach he’s gotta do better.
 

But I’d also say for Reich that it’s hard to get a QB into a rhythm when that QB doesn’t excel in shorter routes. 

 

This is like the '8-0 when Taylor has 100 yards' stat. It's mostly coincidental. Teams run a lot when they have a lead (and the Colts get leads early in the game often), and pass a lot when they're behind. 

 

And it shouldn't be hard to call quick hitters. Between Reich and Wentz (and I guess the other offensive staff), they have to fine tune this. If Wentz simply can't do it, that's a failure on his part. But the way we attack in the passing game isn't emphasizing efficiency lately, and it's not entirely on Wentz. 

[ADnum1]

The problem with the downfield passing offense is it forces the QB to hold the ball longer taking more hits.

 

That was the point in the quick passing offense - getting the ball out of Wentz's hands faster and into the hands of his playmakers which would lead to less hits on Wentz.

[Fisticuffs111]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This is like the '8-0 when Taylor has 100 yards' stat. It's mostly coincidental. Teams run a lot when they have a lead (and the Colts get leads early in the game often), and pass a lot when they're behind. 

 

And it shouldn't be hard to call quick hitters. Between Reich and Wentz (and I guess the other offensive staff), they have to fine tune this. If Wentz simply can't do it, that's a failure on his part. But the way we attack in the passing game isn't emphasizing efficiency lately, and it's not entirely on Wentz. 

Fair enough on the first point.

On the second paragraph, while I don’t think it’s entirely on Wentz, I really do believe it’s just not a strength. Reich has his faults but I think there’s a reason we call less crossers/short outs/etc.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Fair enough on the first point.

On the second paragraph, while I don’t it’s entirely on Wentz, I really do believe it’s just not a strength. Reich has his faults but I think there’s a reason we call less crossers.

I look at it this way. Almost every QB has weaknesses. It’s up to coaches to develop a game plan to minimize those and play to the QB strengths. Your going to fail trying to make them into something they are not.  We don’t really have any downfield threats to play to his strengths.  I have confidence it will be fixed in the off season. We just have to do as well as we can with what we have right now. If Campbell can contribute that will help.

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Reich mentioned it hurts the run game if you use no huddle. Can someone explain to me why yiu can’t run ball using no huddle?

 

That perked up my ears also. There's a back and forth about this on Reddit, and ultimately it's about verbiage for the Colts zone run schemes. It's hard to call the blocking schemes without huddling, it would require a significant change in play calling language.

 

The Colts offense with Peyton Manning was mostly an Erhardt-Perkins offense. It was extremely simple, not a lot of gadgetry to it, and the runs were simple also. For better or worse... but the precision of Manning and the receiving corps made it work. In that system, most of the plays could be called at the line with a two word phrase, and snap counts could/would be another phrase. 

 

Chip Kelly's offense employed a similar naming convention, based on numbers rather than phrases. 

 

The Colts often call multiple plays in the huddle, then the QB/center make adjustments, and often the first play call is negated with a phrase at the line, like "kill!" which you'll often hear. But the actual play call can be very verbose and complicated. It would be difficult to make these calls without huddling. 

[Fisticuffs111]

3 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I look at it this way. Almost every QB has weaknesses. It’s up to coaches to develop a game plan to minimize those and play to the QB strengths. Your going to fail trying to make them into something they are not.  We don’t really have any downfield threats to play to his strengths.  I have confidence it will be fixed in the off season. We just have to do as well as we can with what we have right now. If Campbell can contribute that will help.

Yeah, I kinda think that’s why we’ve seen a lot of screens. Trying to get quick hitters going that way. Just hasn’t worked.

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Fair enough on the first point.

On the second paragraph, while I don’t think it’s entirely on Wentz, I really do believe it’s just not a strength. Reich has his faults but I think there’s a reason we call less crossers/short outs/etc.

 

But IMO, those concepts are a critical and necessary part of a complete offense. They also aren't difficult, in practice. I mean, we're not actually suggesting that Wentz can't hit a short route, right? He's not a precision passer, and his timing can get wonky, but any QB can hit a short route -- slant, drag, in, out, etc. 

 

He does have footwork and mechanic issues, and I think any work he did on those in the offseason was undermined by his foot injury and his ankle injuries. 

 

At the end of the day, they have to include and use these concepts. If they don't, the passing game will continue to lag, and will never been efficient and consistent. And that won't just be a QB failure, it will also be a coaching failure.

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Yeah, I kinda think that’s why we’ve seen a lot of screens. Trying to get quick hitters going that way. Just hasn’t worked.

 

When's the last time we called a simple screen? No play action, or misdirection, just a drop back screen? 

 

I will say, for all of his limitations, the minute Rivers showed up, suddenly the screen game was on point. I think some of the timing is innate, and his unorthodox throwing motion probably helped also.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That perked up my ears also. There's a back and forth about this on Reddit, and ultimately it's about verbiage for the Colts zone run schemes. It's hard to call the blocking schemes without huddling, it would require a significant change in play calling language.

 

The Colts offense with Peyton Manning was mostly an Erhardt-Perkins offense. It was extremely simple, not a lot of gadgetry to it, and the runs were simple also. For better or worse... but the precision of Manning and the receiving corps made it work. In that system, most of the plays could be called at the line with a two word phrase, and snap counts could/would be another phrase. 

 

Chip Kelly's offense employed a similar naming convention, based on numbers rather than phrases. 

 

The Colts often call multiple plays in the huddle, then the QB/center make adjustments, and often the first play call is negated with a phrase at the line, like "kill!" which you'll often hear. But the actual play call can be very verbose and complicated. It would be difficult to make these calls without huddling. 

It seems they could have a set of run plays just for a no huddle. I think Wentz thrives when we run bo huddle. Maybe run a no huddle early with some passing plays to get the passing game going. 

[Fisticuffs111]

15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

When's the last time we called a simple screen? No play action, or misdirection, just a drop back screen? 

 

I will say, for all of his limitations, the minute Rivers showed up, suddenly the screen game was on point. I think some of the timing is innate, and his unorthodox throwing motion probably helped also.

I can’t even think of many plays period where we don’t run some sort of misdirect or pre-snap motion.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

It seems they could have a set of run plays just for a no huddle. I think Wentz thrives when we run bo huddle. Maybe run a no huddle early with some passing plays to get the passing game going. 

 

Yeah, it would require distinct preparation, and apparently that hasn't been a big part of the program so far. They can go no huddle when the clock requires it, but that's more of a passing situation.

[MikeCurtis]

4 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

 

The narratives shift all the time. But the simplest explanation (to me) is that Wentz regressed positively from an awful QB in 2020 to a strikingly similar version of the QB he was in 2019. And this is because, in a good situation with good coaching, that is the QB he is now. 

 

Of course it's possible something could click and he could keep getting better. But right now, there seems to be certain aspects of his game that hold him back at the fundamental level.

 

 

 

 

I get your points

 

Wentz has looked horrible in a few games, but in others he looked like a top 10 QB 

 

I would like more of the latter.... part of the issue with Wentz is not only fundamentals but also VERY poor choices

 

 

But.....  What weapons does Wentz really have at WR and TE

 

Pittman is well loved but is he truly a top 10 WR?  I dont think so

 

Hilton is a shadow of what he was in the past

 

The rest of the WR group is pedestrian at best

 

Jack Doyle can still block but he seems to have lost a step

 

Cox is huge, but do you see him take over any game?

 

Lets be honest.... our current WR and TE is group would be a "C Minus"  at best

 

An improvement at WR and TE to get even a little separation would greatly help this team

 

Today Wentz is looking downfield and seeing nothing truly open, so he forces the ball

 

I hope they can improve

 

[Fisticuffs111]

40 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

But IMO, those concepts are a critical and necessary part of a complete offense. They also aren't difficult, in practice. I mean, we're not actually suggesting that Wentz can't hit a short route, right? He's not a precision passer, and his timing can get wonky, but any QB can hit a short route -- slant, drag, in, out, etc. 

 

He does have footwork and mechanic issues, and I think any work he did on those in the offseason was undermined by his foot injury and his ankle injuries. 

 

At the end of the day, they have to include and use these concepts. If they don't, the passing game will continue to lag, and will never been efficient and consistent. And that won't just be a QB failure, it will also be a coaching failure.

They’re definitely conducive to a successful offense. I guess you’re right, I’d rather see a Reich at least try to implement them more and see what happens, especially if it’s between that or solely passes with a higher degree of difficulty.

 

And I’m not trying to bag on him and say he outright can’t hit those passes. Part of it’s on our WR corps, those are all about timing. I think that’s why Wentz graded out among the worst in terms of slant/out/curl routes in his last solid year with the Eagles. Partly him, partly (maybe mostly) shoddy receivers.

[coming on strong]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Wentz plays a lot like Luck did, Luck was better but Wentz is good. Luck was very good. Put Peyton on this team and we win the SB  , he was great. 

 

[IrsaysArmy]

7 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

 

Exactly. 

[tvturner]

18 hours ago, WhyMclovin94 said:

The best thing you can say about Carson Wentz is that he isn’t Baker Mayfield. 

Baker's played with a completely torn left labrum, a fractured humerus, three dislocations of the same shoulder and a knee contusion for the majority of the season

 

Not a fair assessment 

[Stephen]

3 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I get your points

 

Wentz has looked horrible in a few games, but in others he looked like a top 10 QB 

 

I would like more of the latter.... part of the issue with Wentz is not only fundamentals but also VERY poor choices

 

 

But.....  What weapons does Wentz really have at WR and TE

 

Pittman is well loved but is he truly a top 10 WR?  I dont think so

 

Hilton is a shadow of what he was in the past

 

The rest of the WR group is pedestrian at best

 

Jack Doyle can still block but he seems to have lost a step

 

Cox is huge, but do you see him take over any game?

 

Lets be honest.... our current WR and TE is group would be a "C Minus"  at best

 

An improvement at WR and TE to get even a little separation would greatly help this team

 

Today Wentz is looking downfield and seeing nothing truly open, so he forces the ball

 

I hope they can improve

 

Imagine if he had jamarr chase