Wentz’s struggles as of late

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10 minutes ago, Smash Mouth said:

What Wentz had was a healthy Alshon Jeffrey, Ertz at his peak, a group of good RBs and Darren Sproles who caught over 70 passes.  So aside from having a JT, there was more offensive talent on the Philly team.  Ballard can't build this through the draft anymore.  He's got to spend more money on offense.

If he just waits on the draft it will never happen. 

[Fisticuffs111]

11 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Our fan base is becoming a joke making excuses for Wentz.  So much so we’re blaming his struggles on Taylor being too good?  Seriously?  So an effective running game being a QB’s best friend only works for other QB’s but not Wentz?    Excuses Excuses Excuses.  Imagine Luck with a back like JT in the backfield with him…. He didn’t have superstar talent outside & didn’t have a hundred yard rusher until Gore came yet he still put up numbers.  Luck would be feasting with this same roster and a back like JT.  90% of QB’s would. 
 

Wentz just has to get better at reading defenses & coming off of his first read quicker.  Also get the play off before the defense T’s off with their blitzes.  Everything is up against the play clock and defense are overwhelming our O Line because Carson is telegraphing the snap count.  Also, someone asked where are the slants & crossers.  Frank has been calling them all season. Carson either doesn’t see them or just won’t pull the trigger on time. Stop with the excuses. Hold him accountable. That’s the only way he will get better. 
 

Go back and look at his numbers early in his career and he leaned heavily on Ertz.  Heavily. That tells me Carson needs that tight end security blanket.  Doesn’t matter who we get outside.  He’s likely to not see them on time or at all. He needs that big target over the middle of the field that can get open quickly as his first read more often than not.  Jack & MAC aren’t dynamic enough.  If we really want Carson to throw it more, then we should have gone and gotten him Ertz this season.  If we’re gonna ride with him next year and want to let him throw it all over the field, then get him a game breaking tight end.  And I’m talking about a 130 plus target a year tight end.  Then and only then will we see Wentz reach his potential. 

That tracks as Wentz has graded out among the worst QB’s when it comes to slants and shorter timing routes in the past. Hard to imagine we’re just not calling those plays as Reich loves him a short passing game. 
 

Definitely stares down his first read a lot. And besides Pitt, Doyle’s been his second sort of security blanket so he probably missed him against the Raiders.

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Ballard needs to spend money on WR or TE. If he pays a TE then draft a WR in round two or 3.  Or buy both No more 6th round picks. Granson needs more pass catching snaps not just blocking. 
 

There is a reason BB bought two TE in FA. They are good security blankets. 

I feel good with Rodgers at CB so don’t feel need to find another starter. Just a vet to sit behind him for depth or draft. Pass rusher would be nice but Dayo and Paye have looked like they are coming along nicely.
 

 

[Fisticuffs111]

There are some decent TE options in FA but not a ton of good options.

 

Gesicki’s one of the better options but other than that, guys with potential who have underwhelmed like Njoku.

[Solid84]

As bad as Wentz was last game I think Frank has missed on a lot of opportunities with our offense this season. 
 

- Hines was great last season but besides a handful of good plays hasn’t been used probably this season. 
- Wentz has looked really uncomfortable for a few weeks now and I don’t get why we aren’t calling plays to help him settle down. Get him some quick rhythm throws to get in a groove. 
- Why no bootlegs, crossing routes, anything really to switch it up. 
- Also, Frank is terrible at scheming runplays. If it isn’t [Insert RB name] up the gut it’s nothing. I get we have a great runblocking online and a fantastic runblocking TE, but if they stack the box take advantage of it - sweeps, run to the outside, anything?…

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Does anyone have the ability to look up what Eagles  stats were in Phili in 2017 as far as YAC. I would be curious if this is a Wentz thing or a colts play calling issue. This is bad.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

As bad as Wentz was last game I think Frank has missed on a lot of opportunities with our offense this season. 
 

- Hines was great last season but besides a handful of good plays hasn’t been used probably this season. 
- Wentz has looked really uncomfortable for a few weeks now and I don’t get why we aren’t calling plays to help him settle down. Get him some quick rhythm throws to get in a groove. 
- Why no bootlegs, crossing routes, anything really to switch it up. 
- Also, Frank is terrible at scheming runplays. If it isn’t [Insert RB name] up the gut it’s nothing. I get we have a great runblocking online and a fantastic runblocking TE, but if they stack the box take advantage of it - sweeps, run to the outside, anything?…

I am beginning to think we really miss Nick. The OC job as Reich has mentioned is to put the game plan together for the week. Maybe brady isn’t as good as Nick. 
 

We don’t use motion in the run game nearly enough either.

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

- Also, Frank is terrible at scheming runplays. If it isn’t [Insert RB name] up the gut it’s nothing. I get we have a great runblocking online and a fantastic runblocking TE, but if they stack the box take advantage of it - sweeps, run to the outside, anything?…

 

This is a real head scratcher.

 

We run sweeps, outside zone, power, etc. It's not just RB up the middle.

 

Also, the Colts are #2 in the NFL in total rushing yards, #1 in yards/carry, tied for #3 in rushing TDs, and #1 in 20+/40+ yard rushes. I have plenty of nitpicks with the play calling, but saying the team is terrible at anything that's related to the run game is nonsense.

[Solid84]

1 minute ago, Wentzszn said:

I am beginning to think we really miss Nick. The OC job as Reich has mentioned is to put the game plan together for the week. Maybe brady isn’t as good as Nick. 
 

We don’t use motion in the run game nearly enough either.

Could be, something is definitely off with our passing game especially in the second half of the season. 

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3 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Could be, something is definitely off with our passing game especially in the second half of the season. 

Yeah it’s very weird. Maybe a offseason after having Wentz a full season helps them dial in on that. This is one reason pascal isn’t playing well He is great in short slants and crossers. Pittman is a beast on then too. Wentz did hit TY on one against AZ on a rollout. 
 

Some of it I do think is we haven’t stayed balanced. JT should be focus but you have to keep passing game in Rythm.

[Solid84]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

This is a real head scratcher.

 

We run sweeps, outside zone, power, etc. It's not just RB up the middle.

 

Also, the Colts are #2 in the NFL in total rushing yards, #1 in yards/carry, tied for #3 in rushing TDs, and #1 in 20+/40+ yard rushes. I have plenty of nitpicks with the play calling, but saying the team is terrible at anything that's related to the run game is nonsense.

We aren’t doing anywhere near enough to punish teams stacking the box. I see Dulin doing maybe one Jet Sweep per game and rarely any runs to the outside to get around the Dline rather than through them. 

 

That’s really a huge compliment to JT, Doyle and our Oline more than anything.

[Nesjan3]

8 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I am beginning to think we really miss Nick. The OC job as Reich has mentioned is to put the game plan together for the week. Maybe brady isn’t as good as Nick. 
 

We don’t use motion in the run game nearly enough either.

Nick has done a great job in Philly with a team everyone said was the worst roster going into this year, I think we miss him as well.

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1 minute ago, Solid84 said:

We aren’t doing anywhere near enough to punish teams stacking the box. I see Dulin doing maybe one Jet Sweep per game and rarely any runs to the outside to get around the Dline rather than through them. 

 

That’s really a huge compliment to JT, Doyle and our Oline more than anything.

Raiders were only using one safety and we failed to make them pay. Teams don’t respect our WR.

[shasta519]

13 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

There were a few analysts that went through some of the reasons that he had such a horrible year in Philly the last year.

 

If you watched the tape in the last year, he threw the ball constantly with bad form and bad feet positioning 

 

They made a great case about it.  He feet were pointing away from the reciever that he was trying to hit.

 

When his feet were set properly that ball was accurate.  I was watching a bit of Sunday and his feet were not set underneath him, and he missed the receiver, I believe some of this was not getting the practice time this week.

 

Please remember that he really didnt get a full camp because of his foot injury.  Fundamentals get better through directed repetition .  I think that he will get his fundamentals worked on in the offseason and he will improve.  (He does need some additional weapons)

 

I have high hopes for Carson to get better next year

 

I saw similar content this past offseason.

 

And working on these fundamentals was reportedly a priority of both Wentz and the coaching staff this past offseason. Yet, in (the end of) year 6 in the NFL, those issues with fundamentals seem to persist...or at least continue to make an appearance more often than we would like.

 

While missing a few practices this week didn't help, this is Week 17 of the NFL season, so I am not buying that as the main reason, especially with the recent sample size of games beyond LV.

 

And now the narrative has seemingly turned to the lack of talent in the WR group. But all offseason, Colts fans were talking about how much better the weapons were in Indy than PHI. And now fans and media are saying it's what is holding Wentz back.

 

The narratives shift all the time. But the simplest explanation (to me) is that Wentz regressed positively from an awful QB in 2020 to a strikingly similar version of the QB he was in 2019. And this is because, in a good situation with good coaching, that is the QB he is now. 

 

Of course it's possible something could click and he could keep getting better. But right now, there seems to be certain aspects of his game that hold him back at the fundamental level.

 

 

 

 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Solid84 said:

We aren’t doing anywhere near enough to punish teams stacking the box. I see Dulin doing maybe one Jet Sweep per game and rarely any runs to the outside to get around the Dline rather than through them. 

 

That’s really a huge compliment to JT, Doyle and our Oline more than anything.

 

Why be worried about trying to get around the DL when you're having so much success with inside zone? The run game is more than fine.

 

Building off of the success of the run game is something that needs work. Reich is content to just pound the ball, when there is so much more that can be done to complement our very good run game. The read option is an example, Wentz kept one on Sunday, but they run RPO quite a bit. Bootlegs, crossing patterns, screens, etc., all used far too sparingly IMO.

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There is a bright spot to some of this. That is in Reich’s presser he is very aware of the passing game not being very good right now. So I am sure him and Brady are working on trying to fix it. It puts a lot of pressure on coaches to have to scheme everything up when you don’t have enough speed.

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5 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

I saw similar content this past offseason.

 

And working on these fundamentals was reportedly a priority of both Wentz and the coaching staff this past offseason. Yet, in (the end of) year 6 in the NFL, those issues with fundamentals seem to persist...or at least continue to make an appearance more often than we would like.

 

While missing a few practices this week didn't help, this is Week 17 of the NFL season, so I am not buying that as the main reason, especially with the recent sample size of games beyond LV.

 

And now the narrative has seemingly turned to the lack of talent in the WR group. But all offseason, Colts fans were talking about how much better the weapons were in Indy than PHI. And now fans and media are saying it's what is holding Wentz back.

 

The narratives shift all the time. But the simplest explanation (to me) is that Wentz regressed positively from an awful QB in 2020 to a strikingly similar version of the QB he was in 2019. And this is because, in a good situation with good coaching, that is the QB he is now. 

 

Of course it's possible something could click and he could keep getting better. But right now, there seems to be certain aspects of his game that hold him back at the fundamental level.

 

 

 

 

Two things can be true at the same time. Wentz  needs to work in fundamentals more and colts need better weapons. 
 

Wentz  went to the Tom House academy this past off season. I remember a story he was supposed to stay in touch with them during the season too. I think everyone can see that still needs work. But we also need to get him help.

[coming on strong]

47 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Does anyone have the ability to look up what Eagles  stats were in Phili in 2017 as far as YAC. I would be curious if this is a Wentz thing or a colts play calling issue. This is bad.

 

 

Wentz needs to be able to hit guys in stride to get good yac.   I also think him staring down wrs and throwing into traffic hurts with yac. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

Wentz needs to be able to hit guys in stride to get good yac.   I also think him staring down wrs and throwing into traffic hurts with yac. 

It is glaring when you have 1 play like he had with TY but he has hit many in stride. It was unfortunate he missed TY, I am sure he and TY have talked about it. Wentz has actually been better than I expected. I wanted Rivers back or Carr, I am ok with Wentz.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

That tracks as Wentz has graded out among the worst QB’s when it comes to slants and shorter timing routes in the past. Hard to imagine we’re just not calling those plays as Reich loves him a short passing game. 
 

Definitely stares down his first read a lot. And besides Pitt, Doyle’s been his second sort of security blanket so he probably missed him against the Raiders.

 

It's in part why the Colts are near the bottom of the league in YAC (credit to the Twitter post in this thread).

 

Last season, they were near the top 5...and were tied for 2nd in the NFL in YAC/completion. 

 

Rivers exceled at the short routes and used his checkdowns religiously. Wentz, on the other hand, has had struggles throwing those routes and doesn't seem to utilize his checkdown as often (a criticism that actually dates back to his entire time in PHI).

 

This is a limited passing offense right now.

 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, shasta519 said:

 

It's in part why the Colts are near the bottom of the league in YAC (credit to the Twitter post in this thread).

 

Last season, they were near the top 5...and were tied for 2nd in the NFL in YAC/completion. 

 

Rivers exceled at the short routes and used his checkdowns religiously. Wentz, on the other hand, has had struggles throwing those routes and doesn't seem to utilize his checkdown as often (a criticism that actually dates back to his entire time in PHI).

 

This is a limited passing offense right now.

 

 

 

I am ok with Wentz but what I loved about Rivers (you hit it on the head), he was great with the short game + Rivers was similar to Peyton and changing into the right plays. Rivers football IQ was way up there. 

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It’s makes us appreciate rivers ball placement. There aren’t many QB that had his  elite ball placement skills.

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22 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

Wentz needs to be able to hit guys in stride to get good yac.   I also think him staring down wrs and throwing into traffic hurts with yac. 

Which is why I would be curious what eagles were in 2017. That would tell us a lot. Whether it’s Wentz or play calling.

[Flash7]

20 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

Wentz needs to be able to hit guys in stride to get good yac.   I also think him staring down wrs and throwing into traffic hurts with yac. 

Agreed. In addition, I think a lot of this has to do with the play calling.

 

The Colts (IMO - no stats to back it up) run a lot of hitch routes (5 or 10 yard come-back routes) to exploit empty zones vs. zone coverages, and also do not run too many crossing routes because they are not a strength of Wentz's game, (but they were P. Rivers).

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If we aren’t going to run a lot of crossers we need more speed to become a vertical threat. Team still has to get players that fit Wentz strengths.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

If we aren’t going to run a lot of crossers we need more speed to become a vertical threat. Team still has to get players that fit Wentz strengths.

We may take a TE in the 2nd round. Apparently Granson isn't the answer because we aren't even using him, Doyle may retire? I like Mo but he isn't great. If Wentz had an Andrews that would make a world of difference. 

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5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We may take a TE in the 2nd round. Apparently Granson isn't the answer because we aren't even using him, Doyle may retire? I like Mo but he isn't great. If Wentz had an Andrews that would make a world of difference. 

IDK. rookie TE never did much in first year. Then add we are a run first team with JT you want the better blocker in Doyle.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Wentzszn said:

IDK. rookie TE never did much in first year. Then add we are a run first team with JT you want the better blocker in Doyle.

A TE can even be a great blocker, the best one may be there when we pick. Not a sexy pick but a nice security blanket to have.

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We may take a TE in the 2nd round. Apparently Granson isn't the answer because we aren't even using him, Doyle may retire? I like Mo but he isn't great. If Wentz had an Andrews that would make a world of difference. 

I wouldn’t connect dots between taking a tight end early and Granson.    They are separate issues.   An early tight end would be to potentially replace Doyle, not Granson.  

 

Granson may not be the answer this year, but he still has a good future.   There’s no reason to think otherwise.   Granson wasn’t drafted to replace Doyle.   He was drafted to replace the smallish free agent tight end we signed from Chicago who also once played with Frank in Philly.  (Name?).  
 

These are two separate positions and players.   They’re not linked. 

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

A TE can even be a great blocker, the best one may be there when we pick. Not a sexy pick but a nice security blanket to have.

He played more snaps Sunday because Doyle only played 22% of snaps. I think we just aren’t using our TE much in the passing game. Wentz thrived with Doyle against Tampa when we used him in the passing game. The few flashes I have seen from Granson I think he will be ok. We just need to use them more. 
 

The good thing is Reich is aware of the issue in the passing game and is working on it.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I wouldn’t connect dots between taking a tight end early and Granson.    They are separate issues.   An early tight end would be to potentially replace Doyle, not Granson.  

 

Granson may not be the answer this year, but he still has a good future.   There’s no reason to think otherwise.   Granson wasn’t drafted to replace Doyle.   He was drafted to replace the smallish free agent tight end we signed from Chicago who also once played with Frank in Philly.  (Name?).  
 

These are two separate positions and players.   They’re not linked. 

This will never happen in a million years but I would love to get Adams. He is a Free Agent when the season ends. That is a game changing WR. Ballard would have to adjust a couple of our players contracts. Like I said it will never happen but I think he wants out of GB if Rodgers leaves. We could even franchise Nelson if we had too, if it came to that.

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This right here means we are going to have to retool to get better vertical threats to play to Wentz strengths. Kind of like what I was saying.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Wentzszn said:

This right here means we are going to have to retool to get better vertical threats to play to Wentz strengths. Kind of like what I was saying.

 

 

Wentz plays a lot like Luck did, Luck was better but Wentz is good. Luck was very good. Put Peyton on this team and we win the SB  , he was great. 

[stitches]

1 hour ago, Solid84 said:

We aren’t doing anywhere near enough to punish teams stacking the box. I see Dulin doing maybe one Jet Sweep per game and rarely any runs to the outside to get around the Dline rather than through them. 

 

That’s really a huge compliment to JT, Doyle and our Oline more than anything.

In general you punish the opponent for stacking the box by throwing on them more and abusing 1 on 1 matchups when they do it rather than trying to run more against it, even if it's sweeps. Unfortunately Wentz has been very inconsistent(I think I'm being very generous here) with his execution of the passing game. I'd actually like to see what his stats on playaction and RPO passes are. Usually every QB is better in playaction and RPOs than in regular drop backs, but I feel like this is not the case here. This is purely subjective feeling i have watching Wentz in this offense by watching the games rather than relying on actual stats, so I might be wrong on this. (if someone has the stats, please let us know).

[Fisticuffs111]

45 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

It's in part why the Colts are near the bottom of the league in YAC (credit to the Twitter post in this thread).

 

Last season, they were near the top 5...and were tied for 2nd in the NFL in YAC/completion. 

 

Rivers exceled at the short routes and used his checkdowns religiously. Wentz, on the other hand, has had struggles throwing those routes and doesn't seem to utilize his checkdown as often (a criticism that actually dates back to his entire time in PHI).

 

This is a limited passing offense right now.

 

 

 

Yeah, agreed. 

 

I’ve noticed even when Wentz does hit these slant routes he generally gets it to the WR late. And that’s if he gets it to them at all. Makes sense all around what Brady said and why Reich doesn’t utilize those short routes much. Just isn’t Wentz’s strong suit.

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I don’t expect Wentz to be Rivers. It’s up to Reich and Ballard to get the players that compliment Wentz strengths. We will see if they do. We are going to need a couple new WR anyway with TY probably retiring and I doubt they bring pascal back.  There wasn’t much they could this last off season so this offseason will be big.

 

Reich has been really good at developing a offense to fit his QB. He can do it again but might take the offseason.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Wentzszn said:

I don’t expect Wentz to be Rivers. It’s up to Reich and Ballard to get the players that compliment Wentz strengths. We will see if they do. We are going to need a couple new WR anyway with TY probably retiring and I doubt they bring pascal back. 

It seems like the only WR that Wentz is comfortable with is Pittman, we definitely need another good WR or a great TE.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It seems like the only WR that Wentz is comfortable with is Pittman, we definitely need another good WR or a great TE.

Wentz had good chemistry with Jeffries so it doesn’t surprise me he likes Pittman. We just need more vertical down field threats that fit his strengths. We don’t need just a good WR. It needs to be someone with a little speed that can take the top off a defense so it plays to his strengths. Not just another procession guy.

[2006Coltsbestever]

@Wentzszn, if we win Sunday are we a 6th seed no matter what happens? I read we are but wasn't sure.

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8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@Wentzszn, if we win Sunday are we a 6th seed no matter what happens? I read we are but wasn't sure.

Not unless raiders lose to chargers. If raiders beat  to chargers we are the 7th. Let me explain why. I think this is correct.

 

Raiders will have beat ravens, colts, Steelers, chargers. So that means they would get the 6th seed because they have a win over every team with the same record.  So they would get the higher seed.  So if raiders win they get higher seed.