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Calling FBS College Football playoff system "Playoffs" is a joke


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So I was watching ESPN this morning and they were talking about the FBS teams who have a chance to make the "Playoffs".  I put that in quotes because they should just call it a popularity contest.  Until the FBS does a 16 or 24 team playoff based on records and not a popularity contest I have zero interest in watching their popularity contest.  If the FBS was smart they'd actually garner a ton more interest in a true playoff bracket like the FCS does as opposed to their current popularity contest.  Just look at March Madness and how that works.  There is always a cinderalla story it seems.  The same thing could happen with FBS ball but they stick with their garbage story of 4 teams being a playoff lol.

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It's better than the BCS. It's better than the pre-BCS bowl system.

 

It'll go to 8 or 12 at some point.

 

But it'll never go much bigger. It's much easier to move a BB team around in the NCAA tourney when you only have 13 players. A CFB team, and all that goes into FB is much larger scale. 

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On 11/30/2021 at 12:10 PM, EastStreet said:

It's better than the BCS. It's better than the pre-BCS bowl system.

 

It'll go to 8 or 12 at some point.

 

But it'll never go much bigger. It's much easier to move a BB team around in the NCAA tourney when you only have 13 players. A CFB team, and all that goes into FB is much larger scale. 

The money involved with college athletics the money it would take to move those teams, coaches and equipment is a drop in the bucket.

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6 minutes ago, Lurker said:

The money involved with college athletics the money it would take to move those teams, coaches and equipment is a drop in the bucket.

You can't play 2 FB games a week like the tourney. 16 teams would be the most you could do. That's 4 straight weeks, and you'd likely have to shorten the reg season and/or eliminate conf championships. So you'd be taking away games from a lot of teams, just to add more to 16. 

 

It's just not practical regardless of the money. 

 

And to be honest, there's never more than 8 teams that are legit contenders. There's rarely more than 4. And also, the SEC would love 8 (or more) as they'd almost always get 2-3 in every year. It's not so attractive for other conferences. Even with only 4 there's always a decent chance to get 2 SEC teams. Could happen this year. 

 

I'd be more than happy with 8. 5xP5 CCs, 1xG5 (highest rated), and 2 next highest.

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9 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

You can't play 2 FB games a week like the tourney. 16 teams would be the most you could do. That's 4 straight weeks, and you'd likely have to shorten the reg season and/or eliminate conf championships. So you'd be taking away games from a lot of teams, just to add more to 16. 

 

It's just not practical regardless of the money. 

 

And to be honest, there's never more than 8 teams that are legit contenders. There's rarely more than 4. And also, the SEC would love 8 (or more) as they'd almost always get 2-3 in every year. It's not so attractive for other conferences. Even with only 4 there's always a decent chance to get 2 SEC teams. Could happen this year. 

 

I'd be more than happy with 8. 5xP5 CCs, 1xG5 (highest rated), and 2 next highest.

I feel like I posted that last year in the College football thread, on 8 team playoff they should do:lol:

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23 hours ago, EastStreet said:

You can't play 2 FB games a week like the tourney. 16 teams would be the most you could do. That's 4 straight weeks, and you'd likely have to shorten the reg season and/or eliminate conf championships. So you'd be taking away games from a lot of teams, just to add more to 16. 

 

It's just not practical regardless of the money. 

 

And to be honest, there's never more than 8 teams that are legit contenders. There's rarely more than 4. And also, the SEC would love 8 (or more) as they'd almost always get 2-3 in every year. It's not so attractive for other conferences. Even with only 4 there's always a decent chance to get 2 SEC teams. Could happen this year. 

 

I'd be more than happy with 8. 5xP5 CCs, 1xG5 (highest rated), and 2 next highest.

I see this argument thrown out there but yet the FCS does it with no problem.  

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14 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I see this argument thrown out there but yet the FCS does it with no problem.  

Come on man. Are you familiar with the FCS format? You're comparing apples to pineapples. 

 

  • FCS playoffs start early December... now... as in this week and go through the 2nd week in January.
  • It's a 24 team playoff with 4.5 rounds. 8 byes.
  • All games prior to the championship game are home games for the higher ranked team. 
  • It will kill all the bowls. Fans aren't travelling across the country potentially 5 weeks in a row.

All the bowl people raised holy hell when we went to a 4 team playoff. It would be pandemonium if they went 24. The conferences would have to more or less buck the NCAA and create their own league to accomplish it. And I doubt the conferences would buy into home field games based on subjective ranks. So what do you do, last 3 rounds at neutral sites, and both team's fans traveling week after week.

 

P5 is just very different than FCS. And very different fan bases. The logistics would not be the same.

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Come on man. Are you familiar with the FCS format? You're comparing apples to pineapples. 

 

  • FCS playoffs start early December... now... as in this week and go through the 2nd week in January.
  • It's a 24 team playoff with 4.5 rounds. 8 byes.
  • All games prior to the championship game are home games for the higher ranked team. 
  • It will kill all the bowls. Fans aren't travelling across the country potentially 5 weeks in a row.

All the bowl people raised holy hell when we went to a 4 team playoff. It would be pandemonium if they went 24. The conferences would have to more or less buck the NCAA and create their own league to accomplish it. And I doubt the conferences would buy into home field games based on subjective ranks. So what do you do, last 3 rounds at neutral sites, and both team's fans traveling week after week.

 

P5 is just very different than FCS. And very different fan bases. The logistics would not be the same.

To correct some of the FCS pieces. 

 

  • FCS started over Thanksgiving. This is round 2, with 16 teams remaining.
  • Yes
  • Actually not correct fully. In the first round (and any rounds that there is not a seeded team) they play at the place that has the highest bid, i.e. who puts the bid in first basically. Otherwise yes, the higher seed team host.
  • Also, the first round is based on geographic not anything else. After that it is less so, but some times try to
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Personally I like the 4 team playoff format. 

 

I've always felt that the lack of a traditional playoff format makes the regular season all that more interesting and every game becomes much more meaningful. To me the regular season has a playoff atmosphere. Plus, you are not nearly as likely to get a cinderella type story in football as basketball. 

 

I'd prefer that they keep the playoff teams at 4 because the more teams they let in the less meaningful the regular season becomes. 2 teams often didn't feel like enough (except for years like USC vs Texas in 2006) I feel like 4 is the right number.

 

With that said I do think it's likely they go to 8 teams but it's just not my personal preference. 

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16 minutes ago, ar7 said:

Personally I like the 4 team playoff format. 

 

I've always felt that the lack of a traditional playoff format makes the regular season all that more interesting and every game becomes much more meaningful. To me the regular season has a playoff atmosphere. Plus, you are not nearly as likely to get a cinderella type story in football as basketball. 

 

I'd prefer that they keep the playoff teams at 4 because the more teams they let in the less meaningful the regular season becomes. 2 teams often didn't feel like enough (except for years like USC vs Texas in 2006) I feel like 4 is the right number.

 

With that said I do think it's likely they go to 8 teams but it's just not my personal preference. 

I like 8 because it would allow for the surprise team to make it.   Whether Boise State, Cincinnati or another team.   

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1 hour ago, PuntersArePeopleToo said:

To correct some of the FCS pieces. 

 

  • FCS started over Thanksgiving. This is round 2, with 16 teams remaining.
  • Yes
  • Actually not correct fully. In the first round (and any rounds that there is not a seeded team) they play at the place that has the highest bid, i.e. who puts the bid in first basically. Otherwise yes, the higher seed team host.
  • Also, the first round is based on geographic not anything else. After that it is less so, but some times try to

Thanks for the added detail So even earlier start lol... 

I don't understand you last bullet. Mind expanding?

 

 

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2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Come on man. Are you familiar with the FCS format? You're comparing apples to pineapples. 

 

  • FCS playoffs start early December... now... as in this week and go through the 2nd week in January.
  • It's a 24 team playoff with 4.5 rounds. 8 byes.
  • All games prior to the championship game are home games for the higher ranked team. 
  • It will kill all the bowls. Fans aren't travelling across the country potentially 5 weeks in a row.

All the bowl people raised holy hell when we went to a 4 team playoff. It would be pandemonium if they went 24. The conferences would have to more or less buck the NCAA and create their own league to accomplish it. And I doubt the conferences would buy into home field games based on subjective ranks. So what do you do, last 3 rounds at neutral sites, and both team's fans traveling week after week.

 

P5 is just very different than FCS. And very different fan bases. The logistics would not be the same.

Kill all the bowls?  They could easily incorporate those bowl games into a true FBS playoff format if they wanted to.  Again FCS teams do it no reason they couldn't do it at the FBS level.  None of your bullet points holds water.

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27 minutes ago, Myles said:

I like 8 because it would allow for the surprise team to make it.   Whether Boise State, Cincinnati or another team.   

I'm an 8 team guy too.

 

5 Power 5 Conference Champions

1 Highest ranked Group of 5 (highest ranked undefeated G5, if not undefeated, must be top 10)

2 Next two highest ranked teams

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1 minute ago, Lurker said:

Kill all the bowls?  They could easily incorporate those bowl games into a true FBS playoff format if they wanted to.  Again FCS teams do it no reason they couldn't do it at the FBS level.  None of your bullet points holds water.

If you're playing home games like the FCS, you don't have bowls. 

 

You're not seeing the forest for the trees. 

 

FCS started last week and rolls through the 1st or 2nd week of January. You think fans are going to travel all those weeks, every weekend... lol... Bowls feel huge stadiums, not tiny FCS school stadiums. 

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Thanks for the added detail So even earlier start lol... 

I don't understand you last bullet. Mind expanding?

 

 

No problem, my alma mater is an FCS school that made the playoffs the last 2 playoffs for the first times in 30 years. 

 

And with regards to final point. The first round, is based on teams that are close to each other. Like for example. My school, Missouri State faced Tennessee-Martin as they were close to each other. They look at all the playoff teams that are not seeded and assign two teams that are one different conferences (unless they didn't play that year, then they can be assigned) and two close to the other team. They will not have a CA team play a SC team for example. Then the second round they assign the games before round 1. They do this to save the money. 

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9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

If you're playing home games like the FCS, you don't have bowls. 

 

You're not seeing the forest for the trees. 

 

FCS started last week and rolls through the 1st or 2nd week of January. You think fans are going to travel all those weeks, every weekend... lol... Bowls feel huge stadiums, not tiny FCS school stadiums. 

BCS stadiums fill up for non conference games with the home teams fans primarily.  You don't think they'd show up for their teams playoff games?  As to the traveling fans most of the games in the BCS that are played the stadiums are 80-90% if not more filled with fans from the home team not the traveling team.  Better records/placement/seeding would give the teams who have earned the home games and their fans a chance to see their team play.  As to the visiting team you could incorporate the bowl games into a playoff format and they'd be televised as they are now.  Don't try and tell me that the visiting teams fans fill the away stadiums now (they don't) those are primarily the home teams.

 

I follow the FCS playoffs and watch many of the games on ESPN+.  Every announcer and color commentator (most color commentators covering these games are ex-NFL Players).  Many of those guys played at FBS schools.  They all say the same thing.  The FBS is missing out and the FCS is the way to do it regarding playoffs.  If the FBS had a 24 team playoff format where the conference champions got a seed/bye and the rest of the teams making the playoffs were voted in based on their records the interest in a true FBS playoff would be way higher than what you currently have.

 

There are so many meaningless bowl games where you have half empty stadiums if you are lucky are meaningless to the average fan.  The only ones going to those bowls are family, friends and those who want to take a vacation assuming the game is played somewhere they actually would want to spend some time.  

 

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A Final 8 would be perfect IMO. Than nobody can complain about not getting in (excpet the 9th team = big deal, I doubt anyone would care about that as a whole). You would have 8 great teams in it, it would only take 3 weeks to complete it, and that would be fun to watch. I am rooting for Michigan to win it all this year but I love Harbaugh, got his autograph at the Chargers game back in 1996, shook his hand, the guy was so nice to me and my mom. Some things you never forget. I am so glad they kicked the crap out of Ohio St last week. All I heard all week was how Ohio St was going to blow out Michigan from the media and fans, this is what Jim thought about it bruce lee loop GIF

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3 hours ago, Lurker said:

BCS stadiums fill up for non conference games with the home teams fans primarily.  You don't think they'd show up for their teams playoff games?  As to the traveling fans most of the games in the BCS that are played the stadiums are 80-90% if not more filled with fans from the home team not the traveling team.  Better records/placement/seeding would give the teams who have earned the home games and their fans a chance to see their team play.  As to the visiting team you could incorporate the bowl games into a playoff format and they'd be televised as they are now.  Don't try and tell me that the visiting teams fans fill the away stadiums now (they don't) those are primarily the home teams.

 

I follow the FCS playoffs and watch many of the games on ESPN+.  Every announcer and color commentator (most color commentators covering these games are ex-NFL Players).  Many of those guys played at FBS schools.  They all say the same thing.  The FBS is missing out and the FCS is the way to do it regarding playoffs.  If the FBS had a 24 team playoff format where the conference champions got a seed/bye and the rest of the teams making the playoffs were voted in based on their records the interest in a true FBS playoff would be way higher than what you currently have.

 

There are so many meaningless bowl games where you have half empty stadiums if you are lucky are meaningless to the average fan.  The only ones going to those bowls are family, friends and those who want to take a vacation assuming the game is played somewhere they actually would want to spend some time.  

 

 

If it was such a no brainer, it would happen.

It won't happen.

 

I'd recommend mapping out the top 24 this year, look map it out using FBS, and ask yourself would universities buy into all the logistics and playing on the road, and would enough fans travel to fill up large stadiums that many weeks in a row. Sure the home teams would have local fans, but that's all the more reason why the others (the ones traveling) wouldn't buy into the plan. And also, it would wreck the bowls like I said. I agree many are meaningless, but there's a lot of tradition, a lot of neutral field stadiums that would cut out of local revenue, and the whole money making machine around bowls would be cut out. 

 

No reason to continue the debate. You're not changing my mind, I'm not changing yours. 

Good talk.

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With Oklahoma state losing the top 4 could get interesting if we get a 11-1 Notre Dame who has lost to the current #3 Cincinnati and a 2 loss Alabama who has lost to the #25 ranked Texas A&M and #1 Georgia.

 

I don't think you can put Alabama in with more losses and a worse ranked loss, but they could just decide against Notre Dame since Kelly left.

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2 hours ago, Zoltan said:

With Oklahoma state losing the top 4 could get interesting if we get a 11-1 Notre Dame who has lost to the current #3 Cincinnati and a 2 loss Alabama who has lost to the #25 ranked Texas A&M and #1 Georgia.

 

I don't think you can put Alabama in with more losses and a worse ranked loss, but they could just decide against Notre Dame since Kelly left.

I think it would be nonsense if Bama loses and still gets the 4th spot.  

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45 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If Cincinnati loses I will lmao at Brian Kelly and his new accent. Did you guys hear him speak at an LSU halftime game. My Faauumilie (family) - lmao , OMG what a fake, that sounded so silly. If Cincy loses, ND makes the Final 4, it would be hilarious if ND won it all without accent Kelly :funny:.

 

Highly unlikely, but if they make it I will definitely be rooting for that outcome

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10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

A Final 8 would be perfect IMO. Than nobody can complain about not getting in (excpet the 9th team = big deal, I doubt anyone would care about that as a whole). You would have 8 great teams in it, it would only take 3 weeks to complete it, and that would be fun to watch. I am rooting for Michigan to win it all this year but I love Harbaugh, got his autograph at the Chargers game back in 1996, shook his hand, the guy was so nice to me and my mom. Some things you never forget. I am so glad they kicked the crap out of Ohio St last week. All I heard all week was how Ohio St was going to blow out Michigan from the media and fans, this is what Jim thought about it bruce lee loop GIF

I wen to the QB Challenge one year down in Orlando, the QB's had stations to sign autographs BUT you had to all wait in one line before it branched off. Me and my fiancee could see Jim down the end of the way. Problem is Dan Marino no showed the session which was 60 minutes before the contest started...and being in Florida he had the most fans and they were at the front......logic would say let the other fans go through to get to their QB......but word from supervisor was to let fans filter in...we waited an hour...not a single fan got anything signed, no QB got to meet their fans...zero.....Dan showed up hungover when session had finished and got into an argument with the staff...he said "How was I supposed to know I'd be screwing over the fans of other QB's just thought my own would miss out"...Fins fans were looking at each other like wth......my fiancee sent picks to Colts headquarters care of Jim of us dressed in our  Colts gear.....I was amazed when weeks later we got not only a sign 8 X 10 of Jim but a personal letter thanking us for supporting him and updates on his wife Miah and son Jay  who was a baby.....that is class in my book. The incident with Marino actually made the papers down here by the way.....

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6 hours ago, Zoltan said:

 

Highly unlikely, but if they make it I will definitely be rooting for that outcome

They won't make it now. Cincy won and Michigan is about to win. It looks like it will be:

 

1. Alabama

2. Michigan

3. Georgia

4. Cincy

-I think that is how it will end up. Georgia will drop only 2 spots. Bama will be #1 and deservedly so after that butt kicking they put on Georgia! I am rooting for Michigan because of Harbaugh.

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9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

They won't make it now. Cincy won and Michigan is about to win. It looks like it will be:

 

1. Alabama

2. Michigan

3. Georgia

4. Cincy

-I think that is how it will end up. Georgia will drop only 2 spots. Bama will be #1 and deservedly so after that butt kicking they put on Georgia! I am rooting for Michigan because of Harbaugh.

Yup, I'll be hoping Michigan or Cincy wins, if the Championship is an Alabama vs Georgia rematch I probably won't watch it. 

 

They gotta expand the playoffs, find a more objective way to rank the teams, and if I could pick something make an FBS wide scheduling rule because Alabama scheduling these easy wins like Mercer, Southern Miss, and NMSU while other teams are actually scheduling hard out of conference games. It drives me crazy and makes regular season games less fun to watch.

 

Although I don't expect these changes to ever happen

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20 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

I don't think Alabama deserved number 1 with their loss to Texa A&M, probably should of been Michigan, but they weren't gonna make Alabama and Georgia immediately play each other again

Yes. And that really shouldn't be a factor.  Do they want the re-match in the Nat. Title game?  Would be awesome if it was Michigan vs. Cincinnati in title game.  Could happen. :dunno:

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On 12/4/2021 at 12:05 PM, EastStreet said:

 

If it was such a no brainer, it would happen.

It won't happen.

 

I'd recommend mapping out the top 24 this year, look map it out using FBS, and ask yourself would universities buy into all the logistics and playing on the road, and would enough fans travel to fill up large stadiums that many weeks in a row. Sure the home teams would have local fans, but that's all the more reason why the others (the ones traveling) wouldn't buy into the plan. And also, it would wreck the bowls like I said. I agree many are meaningless, but there's a lot of tradition, a lot of neutral field stadiums that would cut out of local revenue, and the whole money making machine around bowls would be cut out. 

 

No reason to continue the debate. You're not changing my mind, I'm not changing yours. 

Good talk.

You keep talking about filling up stadiums like all FBS games are attended by traveling teams fans.  That is a joke.  90% or more of the fans at the away games are fans from the home team if not more.  Regular conference season games traveling teams would be lucky if they got 10% of their fans at those away games.   So the fan attendance angle is a non issue from the start.  

 

As to the bowl game argument you want to use as an excuse that it wouldn't work that's an easy fix.  Those bowl games could be worked into the playoff format.  As to the rest of the bowl games that wouldn't be in the format those are meaningless bowls anyway.  There is one reason and one reason only that the power 5  conferences wouldn't want to go for a playoff format is that it would kill their popularity contest they have going right now.  

 

A true playoff system with 16 or 24 teams could and would work.  

 

Appreciate the discussion though.  You are correct about not changing anyones mind but if FBS college football wanted to generate real interest in their "bowl" games they'd convert it to a true playoff using the bowls as part of it.  As it is I could care a less about any of the bowls.  A true playoff format now that I'd care about.

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The Bowl game issue is a non factor. They already incorporate bowl games into the playoffs now. They rotate the bowl games every year in the playoffs. Other than the NY6 bowls, no one pays attention to the others unless they're a fan of said school. FBS is a joke. It's all about who has the "big brand".

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8 hours ago, Gramz said:

Yes. And that really shouldn't be a factor.  Do they want the re-match in the Nat. Title game?  Would be awesome if it was Michigan vs. Cincinnati in title game.  Could happen. :dunno:

Most likely it will be Bama vs Georgia playing again.  

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5 hours ago, landrus13 said:

It was setup that way. It was setup for Georgia/Alabama to play in the title game. Otherwise, it would have been Georgia/Alabama in one of the semifinals. I'd love to see them lose but they'll both win and it'll be an all SEC championship game like they wanted.

 

I'm not sure who they are, but if you are referring to the CFP selection committee, why would they want an all SEC championship game?  That game is likely to be a lower rated game than a SEC-Michigan game or a SEC-Cincinnati game.

 

As far as expanding the playoffs, I am not really in favor of more than 6 teams.  There are too many blow outs as it is and the likelihood of a 50 to 3 game goes up if the playoffs are expanded to 12 teams.  I like to watch competitive football games not one sided ones, Michigan beating Iowa 42 to 3 was not an interesting game unless you are a Michigan fan.

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On 12/2/2021 at 9:53 PM, EastStreet said:

You can't play 2 FB games a week like the tourney. 16 teams would be the most you could do. That's 4 straight weeks, and you'd likely have to shorten the reg season and/or eliminate conf championships. So you'd be taking away games from a lot of teams, just to add more to 16. 

 

It's just not practical regardless of the money. 

 

And to be honest, there's never more than 8 teams that are legit contenders. There's rarely more than 4. And also, the SEC would love 8 (or more) as they'd almost always get 2-3 in every year. It's not so attractive for other conferences. Even with only 4 there's always a decent chance to get 2 SEC teams. Could happen this year. 

 

I'd be more than happy with 8. 5xP5 CCs, 1xG5 (highest rated), and 2 next highest.

 

I would prefer 7 as opposed to 8. There can be only 1 No.1 seed in the country and the odds of a No.1 seed like Alabama (or Florida during the Tebow days) crashing and burning in a conference championship are low enough. There is no reward to being No.1 except for a bye in the first week, IMO, like the NFL.

 

If they cannot do 7, it makes sense to do 12 since the Top 4 will enjoy a bye week while seeds 5-12 have the possibility of playing 3 weeks in a row, IMO, if they make noise.

 

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5 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I would prefer 7 as opposed to 8. There can be only 1 No.1 seed in the country and the odds of a No.1 seed like Alabama (or Florida during the Tebow days) crashing and burning in a conference championship are low enough. There is no reward to being No.1 except for a bye in the first week, IMO, like the NFL.

 

If they cannot do 7, it makes sense to do 12 since the Top 4 will enjoy a bye week while seeds 5-12 have the possibility of playing 3 weeks in a row, IMO, if they make noise.

 

Overall, not really a fan of byes. Too much injury-advantage for the bye winners, and too much injury-disadvantage to the lower seeds. 

 

Give me 8, no byes. I could be fine with 12 and 4 byes though. My preference though is 8, with 5 auto bids for P5 CCs, 1 auto bid for highest ranked G5, and then the next two highest ranked teams. 

 

But any bye given to 1 or 2 loss team, over an undefeated team, IMO is bull sheet. And that would have happened in the 12 formula looking at years past. 

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20 hours ago, Cynjin said:

 

I'm not sure who they are, but if you are referring to the CFP selection committee, why would they want an all SEC championship game?  That game is likely to be a lower rated game than a SEC-Michigan game or a SEC-Cincinnati game.

 

As far as expanding the playoffs, I am not really in favor of more than 6 teams.  There are too many blow outs as it is and the likelihood of a 50 to 3 game goes up if the playoffs are expanded to 12 teams.  I like to watch competitive football games not one sided ones, Michigan beating Iowa 42 to 3 was not an interesting game unless you are a Michigan fan.

You obviously didn't see the TV ratings for the SEC championship game. SEC teams bring in the money with their huge fanbases and boosters. If you don't think the CFP wanted that, then idk what to tell you. There's a reason they separated the two instead of them playing each other in the semis.

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