2021 1Q Report/Grades: Quarterback

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Lol...we will be nowhere close to a top 5 pick. The season didn't end last week. Carson will be our franchise QB for years to come and we were lucky to get him for a more likely mid 1st round pick and a lower 2nd round pick. 

Depends on what you mean by close. If they end up with a pick in the top 10-15 range, that’s closer to top 5 than it is to being a playoff team. 
 

That’s a lot to give up when you are already paying the player. 
 

And not every franchise QB is created equally. Which has been my concerns all along. Wentz being a mid-level franchise QB doesn’t move the needle for this team. I would rather shoot for the moon than settle for decent. 

[Yoshinator]

12 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

How long does Ballard get to ride the Luck train? Is th loss of Luck excuse Ballard for not building a competent defence? When Luck retired, they could have went into the draft and got their future stud. They sold us that Brissett was a starting qb. They then signed Rivers who was maybe a one year replacement. 

I think Ballard's true evaluation starts this year. He has his real franchise QB now, no excuses. Unfortunately, we are 1-4, without a 1st round pick next year, and still have a lot of holes in a bunch of the most positions on the team (WR, EDGE, CB). 

 

I can excuse the QB position as there's a decent chance Ballard filled it with Wentz (although he's 28 already and will be 29 before the year ends). However, the fact that we still have major holes in the rest of the team up to this point, we are without a 1st round pick next year, we aren't using FA that much, and we have about $1 million in salary cap remaining just shows that we possibly only have an average team, and extending our players at non-premium positions may have been a bad idea.

 

Don't forget, we haven't even extended Nelson yet. We have $55 million heading into FA next year yes, but he'll cost $20 million a year as well. We're going to be bogged down by 6-8 big contracts starting next year. How many of them are actually playing elite?

 

Leonard- Playing hurt and was hurt before signing his extension. Nelson- is on the IR, though he should be fine. Has back problems though. Buckner- Has been double-teamed and mostly ineffective this year with 1 sack. Braden Smith- Bad first game and hasn't played since after getting paid. Team can't even give an update. Kelly- has been average I guess. Struggled until last week and has struggled without Big Q tbh. Stewart- been good, been about as good as Buckner tbh for half the price. Moore- Not even our best CB, has taken a step back this year. Hines- solid so far, but misused in correlation with Mack. Wentz- been really solid. Has worked out well so far, put the team on his back and made the offense respectable.

 

So of the 9 players we paid a decent amount, 6 have been bad, hurt, or misused already (including the 2018 draft class). 3 have been solid (counting Hines in both categories. Good, but misused). Kelly is probably in his own category. Average, not bad, but underperforming and not worth the money). Team should be doing better once you pay your own (which we aren't) and now we are just strapped of cap space (and it'll continue next year when we pay big Q). We don't supplement in FA, we are without a 1st round pick next year, we had to pay Wentz right away, and Ballard's draft picks are starting to get exposed (as well as Ballard as not being an elite drafter, which matters because he avoids FA a lot and likes to build through the draft).

 

The real evaluation started when we traded for Wentz. Right now, Ballard isn't doing a very good job.

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, Wentzszn said:

We have almost 70 million in cap space next season. I believe. A lot of players won’t be brought back. We still have Q on his fifth year and could franchise him another year. So that bides us time for the cap to go way up. He can’t be cheap at corner. He needs to go find a young good corner. I am ok looking for another WR in the draft. They seem to be producing right away lately. As long as it isn’t a late round pick. Needs to be a higher pick.

1. That’s a lot more than I expected. My bad. 
 

2. I agree! He can’t cheap out this off season, but honestly I’d rather he brought in a proven stud DE than a CB. Our lack of pressure from the Dline is a lot of the reason our secondary stinks. 

3. We really need a stud WR or TE - It would lift the entire offense. I still think Campbell is a bust and I don’t like what I have seen from Granson.  So, I really don’t trust Ballard to draft an immediate impact WR or TE. 

[shasta519]

People are making presumptive declarations about QBs after a few games.

[Zoltan]

I liked the trade when it happened, my eagles fan brother told me he was mad they traded wentz because he wasn't the problem, and now I like it even more. Wentz has been playing smart football and has been playing fantastic. Honestly I think people are overvaluing the 1st round pick that we will lose and the price of a 1st and a 3rd for a franchise QB is easily worth it as some teams pay multiple 1st rounders for a rookie QB that doesn't pan out.

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

How long does Ballard get to ride the Luck train? Is th loss of Luck excuse Ballard for not building a competent defence? When Luck retired, they could have went into the draft and got their future stud. They sold us that Brissett was a starting qb. They then signed Rivers who was maybe a one year replacement. 

In my mind, he only gets a pass on the QB thing. However, that ends with this Wentz attempt, good results or bad. 
 

as for the defense, I am on the train of thought that looks at it as scheme and calling. We blitz the least in the league, we also leave HUGE open zones and holes. That’s all scheme. To me, that’s on Eberflus and Reich for letting it happen. Ballard needs to look at a new DC and soon. 

[aReggie7]

21 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

And not every franchise QB is created equally. Which has been my concerns all along. Wentz being a mid-level franchise QB doesn’t move the needle for this team. I would rather shoot for the moon than settle for decent. 

 

Spot on. 

 

Just look at the QBs in the AFC...Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, and now Herbert. Yikes. You can't settle at this position and think you will be a serious contender.

 

Granted, football is still a team game and it's not all on the QB BUT there is no position that impacts the game as much as the QB and no position that can make his teammates better like the QB. Being say a top 15 QB isn't likely to cut it if you want to be a serious contender. The bar is higher than ever for what you need out of a QB.

 

In his 5 years in Philly there were a number of questions about Wentz to raise doubts as to whether or not he is a franchise QB. Perhaps some are unfair but they were there. That's not normal for franchise QBs at all. 5 years into a career you almost always know what you have.

 

IMO 5 games is not enough to crown him. 

 

 

 

 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Zoltan said:

I liked the trade when it happened, my eagles fan brother told me he was mad they traded wentz because he wasn't the problem, and now I like it even more. Wentz has been playing smart football and has been playing fantastic. Honestly I think people are overvaluing the 1st round pick that we will lose and the price of a 1st and a 3rd for a franchise QB is easily worth it as some teams pay multiple 1st rounders for a rookie QB that doesn't pan out.

That's where the Eagles are.  They are going to trade a number of 1st rd picks most likely to move up in the draft and get a QB they have no idea will pan out.  In a poor QB class no less.  Hurts is way down the list on current QB play after five weeks.  They are going to regret trading Wentz.  I'm sure they are already.  Looks like another good trade by Ballard.  Here's hoping he does it again this off season. 

[EastStreet]

6 hours ago, csmopar said:

I remain unhappy with the trade. But overall, Wentz so far, has not been the reason this team is 1-4. He’s played well given the circumstances. And honestly, better than I thought he would to date.

 

however, I remain unhappy with the trade. But that’s mainly due to what we gave up. Now, it looks like we could have a top 5 pick that we may be sending to the Eagles. This is unfolding as a worst case nightmare scenario 

If Wentz ends up top 10ish this year in stats, and continues to play well, what is so nightmarish? If we didn't have Wentz, we'd still likely be 1-4 or worse, and we'd be looking for QB anyway at the end of the season (a bad QB class) plus all the other needs. I don't love giving up 1Rs either, but a 1st and 3rd is pretty cheap for a guy who's likely capable of providing top 10ish stats.

 

 

[csmopar]

7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

If Wentz ends up top 10ish this year in stats, and continues to play well, what is so nightmarish? If we didn't have Wentz, we'd still likely be 1-4 or worse, and we'd be looking for QB anyway at the end of the season (a bad QB class) plus all the other needs. I don't love giving up 1Rs either, but a 1st and 3rd is pretty cheap for a guy who's likely capable of providing top 10ish stats.

 

 

To me, the nightmare would be Wentz getting hurt AFTER hitting the 70/75 percent snap mark and us still sitting below .500. Regardless of his stats, that would suck

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The bottom line so far we can now scratch QB off the list as something we don’t have to worry short next year. Unless something changes we don’t have to worry about it. Now Ballard can lt this energy into the few extra pieces this team needs to fix this defense and maybe one more weapon for Wentz.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

To me, the nightmare would be Wentz getting hurt AFTER hitting the 70/75 percent snap mark and us still sitting below .500. Regardless of his stats, that would suck

Why? If he is playing like a franchise QB that shouldn’t be a nightmare. It means we can scratch QB off as a future need. Sure makes things easier heading into next season. 22 would be the first year Reich would have the same QB instead of having to start over.

[richard pallo]

6 minutes ago, csmopar said:

To me, the nightmare would be Wentz getting hurt AFTER hitting the 70/75 percent snap mark and us still sitting below .500. Regardless of his stats, that would suck

That would suck.  That’s why I’m hoping we get a run started and get a big lead early doing it so we can pull Wentz in the 4th qtr. of some of those games.  Get the victories and lower the snap count and lower the risk of injury. 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, ar7 said:

 

Spot on. 

 

Just look at the QBs in the AFC...Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, and now Herbert. Yikes. You can't settle at this position and think you will be a serious contender.

 

Granted, football is still a team game and it's not all on the QB BUT there is no position that impacts the game as much as the QB and no position that can make his teammates better like the QB. Being say a top 15 QB isn't likely to cut it if you want to be a serious contender. The bar is higher than ever for what you need out of a QB.

 

In his 5 years in Philly there were a number of questions about Wentz to raise doubts as to whether or not he is a franchise QB. Perhaps some are unfair but they were there. That's not normal for franchise QBs at all. 5 years into a career you almost always know what you have.

 

IMO 5 games is not enough to crown him. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah...the sample size is really small. But much of this fanbase were crowning JB after 5-7 games in 2019...and Wentz is much more talented...so not really surprised by the response I have seen.

 

But Wentz being a top 15-20 guy going forward is not as bad as it could be, but not as good as it needs to be. It's not QB purgatory as much as it's contending purgatory.

 

 

 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

12 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

That would suck.  That’s why I’m hoping we get a run started and get a big lead early doing it so we can pull Wentz in the 4th qtr. of some of those games.  Get the victories and lower the snap count and lower the risk of injury. 

Wentz would have to miss around 4 or 5 games. Pulling him for a quarter isn’t going to do much. The only way he is getting benched is if he starts to look  really bad and they feel like he isn’t the future. That is the only way.

[EastStreet]

5 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

There is something to a bridge QB who is just good enough to keep you out of the running for the top QB. It might of been better just go with a bad QB. With as good as this draft class was in 21 in might of been smarter to just roll with Jacoby one more year. He was already under contract. Could of put us in a nice position to draft a QB this past draft. I don’t know if fans or Ballard and Reich would of been able to stomach that for a year.

Nobody knew the 21 class would be as good (back then), and very few would have wanted JB part 2.

And JB would have likely yielded a 500ish team that wouldn't have given us a great draft pick anyway.

IMO, you either try to improve your QB/team, or you embrace the suck.

5 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

The oline is getting better every week. He looked very comfortable in that Ravens game. Looked like he was totally in control. We do have to work on scoring more points.  We will hopefully have the entire oline next week in SF. I don’t think people realize how the oline needs chemistry too and with all the missed camp it hurt them. They also had to get used to Wentz playing style being a different. It was easy to pass block for Rivers.

We got better last week. Really wouldn't say the bolded. 

The vets don't need a lot of time for chemistry, they already have it. 

It's the new guys that need it. 

 

Our issues are (in order)

1) LT was either a bad choice, was rushed back to soon, or simply will never get back to form

2) LT depth sucked knowing Fisher wouldn't start the year

3) Kelly is playing below his salary

4) Q and Smith injuries.

 

And Q and Smith will get better. I'm not sure LT will get better, and I'm not sure Kelly ever plays to his pay.

5 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Few in the world thought at trade time this was a top ten pick team for 2022.
  What a joke to think a QB taken 10-20 would have been much for 2-3 seasons or more, as all of our young talent has been developed into a contending team. It is a total crapshoot with these college QB's that usually have two seasons or less of starting experience.
 And what Garbage to say that the current pattern doesn't show great promise with a weaker schedule ahead. We were ahead 22-3 on the road.
LMAO that you may have a change of mind. Doyle use you for writing tips?

I agree with some of the above, and agree that csmopar's take is not a great one, but it's not a joke to think a 10+ QB can be "the guy". I do agree drafted QBs are crapshoots, but that's why you pay a GM, and every team has to roll the dice sooner or later. We were just lucky to have have #1 the last two QB picks....

 

But lets look at the current top 10 QBs in YPG, and where they were drafted. Only 5 of the top 10 were top 10 picks. And Mahomes barely fit that 1-10 description. I agree it's idea to get one 1-10, other guys do often succeed. 

 

Tom Brady TB - 6/199

Derek Carr  LV - 2/36

Matthew Stafford  LAR - 1/1

Justin Herbert  LAC - 1/6

Lamar Jackson  BAL - 1/32

Kyler Murray  ARI -1/1

Patrick Mahomes  KC - 1/10

Kirk Cousins  MIN - 4/102

Josh Allen  BUF - 1/7

Dak Prescott DAL - 4/135

5 hours ago, holeymoley99 said:

Exactly my point, its a crap shoot.....very rare a QB comes in and blows the doors off. Colts arent in rebuild mode, they wanted to win right now after going toe to toe with Bills in AFC playoffs last year.

Not a rebuild, but we do have (and will have) a lot of holes though. Some are just wide open holes, some are pending delayed gratification lol. 

 

Toe to toe with Buffalo, I agree, but we went toe to toe with them because of Rivers, not our D. Our D was abysmal. 

4 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I don't mind giving up a 1st round pick for what I think will be a top10 QB for us for quite a few years. I do mind giving up a 1st round pick with the holes we have at important positions and without any cap space to find them in FA.

You have all the holes regardless.

You either have

1) all the holes + a QB hole + a 1st round pick

or

2) all the holes

4 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

From all accounts they loved Fields. In the end though Wentz was the right choice to trade for. But if he hadn’t been available Fields dropped far enough they could of moved up even at where they were. The 2020 draft they could of tried to live up for Herbert instead of trading for Buckner. We will never know if they tried before trading for Buckner but by all accounts they didn’t.

Fields was a dice throw. We won't know for a while, but I would not have been a fan. 

Have only watched him a few times this year, but he looks to have the same limitations he had in college.

4 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

We are close. We don’t need a overhaul and it makes it much easier to fix when they have the QB. But Ballard does need to go try and find a couple players who are still young but are good. No more bargain shopping for a couple of these spots. 

Overhaul might be a strong word, but we have plenty of position groups that have question marks. 

DB still has more questions that answers.

DL, aside from Defo (who isn't playing up to his salary) is all about "development"

LB is really struggling despite having the highest paid LB

OL still hasn't solved it's most important position (LT)

I'm happier with TE/WR than most, but a lot of folks want splashes in both areas even though Reich's O is not a splash O.

RB is really the only position without major question marks.

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

I also think we will go back to the concept of not spending ALL the cap and rolling it over and over.  Just depends how close Ballard thinks we are.

 

[richard pallo]

9 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Wentz would have to miss around 4 or 5 games. Pulling him for a quarter isn’t going to do much. The only way he is getting benched is if he starts to look  really bad and they feel like he isn’t the future. That is the only way.

I would like to lower his risk of injury as well.  He reminds me of Luck in that he is so competitive and risks his body too much.  We have a long way to go.  He could miss some games due to COVID-19.  There is definitely that chance.  

[EastStreet]

47 minutes ago, csmopar said:

To me, the nightmare would be Wentz getting hurt AFTER hitting the 70/75 percent snap mark and us still sitting below .500. Regardless of his stats, that would suck

That's a pure "if". 

I doubt we'll have a top 10 anyway with our schedule down the stretch. And if we do, it won't be because Wentz was a bad trade.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I would like to lower his risk of injury as well.  He reminds me of Luck in that he is so competitive and risks his body too much.  We have a long way to go.  He could miss some games due to COVID-19.  There is definitely that chance.  

Oh they could very well sit him for a game  or two in the last couple games just to prevent any long term injury from happening and to see what we have in backup QB But that won’t happen until they are elimated. They won’t sit him though just to get that pick back. I don’t think they will sit him that many games.

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I think Ballard's true evaluation starts this year. He has his real franchise QB now, no excuses. Unfortunately, we are 1-4, without a 1st round pick next year, and still have a lot of holes in a bunch of the most positions on the team (WR, EDGE, CB). 

Not going to say it really starts this year. But I agree the QB excuse runs out. I think the QB excuse is a poor one anyway, becuae he had two good QBs in that 4 years. And I think it's more than fair to grade his drafts for what they are, or aren't over those years. He had some great hits, but he's also had some whiffs (a ton of early draft capital on the DL that has panned out), and currently has a pass D that is woeful. 

3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

 

I can excuse the QB position as there's a decent chance Ballard filled it with Wentz (although he's 28 already and will be 29 before the year ends). However, the fact that we still have major holes in the rest of the team up to this point, we are without a 1st round pick next year, we aren't using FA that much, and we have about $1 million in salary cap remaining just shows that we possibly only have an average team, and extending our players at non-premium positions may have been a bad idea.

Yup. We have major holes. 

We've had some decent FA finds, but even those can be debated. 

We've heard the narrative "the most important position in our D is 3T".... Well we spent a ton on 3T in FA, and it hasn't changed much. And frankly Defo, while he is leading our team in pressures this year I think, has not looked dominant at all this year. 

3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

 

Don't forget, we haven't even extended Nelson yet. We have $55 million heading into FA next year yes, but he'll cost $20 million a year as well. We're going to be bogged down by 6-8 big contracts starting next year. How many of them are actually playing elite?

Yup. We have a TON of FAs next year. About 15 guys that are either key starters or playing key depth roles. And that does not include areas where we have guys locked up who are simply performing badly. 

3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

 

Leonard- Playing hurt and was hurt before signing his extension. Nelson- is on the IR, though he should be fine. Has back problems though. Buckner- Has been double-teamed and mostly ineffective this year with 1 sack. Braden Smith- Bad first game and hasn't played since after getting paid. Team can't even give an update. Kelly- has been average I guess. Struggled until last week and has struggled without Big Q tbh. Stewart- been good, been about as good as Buckner tbh for half the price. Moore- Not even our best CB, has taken a step back this year. Hines- solid so far, but misused in correlation with Mack. Wentz- been really solid. Has worked out well so far, put the team on his back and made the offense respectable.

 

So of the 9 players we paid a decent amount, 6 have been bad, hurt, or misused already (including the 2018 draft class). 3 have been solid (counting Hines in both categories. Good, but misused). Kelly is probably in his own category. Average, not bad, but underperforming and not worth the money). Team should be doing better once you pay your own (which we aren't) and now we are just strapped of cap space (and it'll continue next year when we pay big Q). We don't supplement in FA, we are without a 1st round pick next year, we had to pay Wentz right away, and Ballard's draft picks are starting to get exposed (as well as Ballard as not being an elite drafter, which matters because he avoids FA a lot and likes to build through the draft).

 

The real evaluation started when we traded for Wentz. Right now, Ballard isn't doing a very good job.

Like I said, IMO his evaluation started earlier, but he's run out of get-out-of-jail-free-cards... 

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, Solid84 said:

1. That’s a lot more than I expected. My bad. 
 

2. I agree! He can’t cheap out this off season, but honestly I’d rather he brought in a proven stud DE than a CB. Our lack of pressure from the Dline is a lot of the reason our secondary stinks. 

3. We really need a stud WR or TE - It would lift the entire offense. I still think Campbell is a bust and I don’t like what I have seen from Granson.  So, I really don’t trust Ballard to draft an immediate impact WR or TE. 

 

We only have around 55M

Assume Q will be extended at 20M a year, and get 15+ in 2022.

 

so now you have 40M.

 

And now you have to solve for 

LT - Fisher is not looking like the answer. He's a FA. 

T Depth - Pryor is a FA

CB1 - Rhodes is a FA

CB Depth - Carrie is a FA, and our depth without him has been scary bad

RG - Both Glow and Reed are FAs

TE - MAC is a FA, Doyle is rumored to be ready to retire, Granson is not a traditional TE.

DE - AQM, Lewis, Rochell, Turay are all FAs. Sure Paye and Dayo might be starters, but you have zero depth returning. 

QB2 - it's a mess, but our current QB2 is a FA. I don't see Eason or Ehlinger as a long term answer.

S Depth - we have none lol

 

Then you have a few positions that are performing bad like MIKE and SS, who are not FAs, but are currently major holes in perfomance. 

 

[Solid84]

42 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

...

You have all the holes regardless.

You either have

1) all the holes + a QB hole + a 1st round pick

or

2) all the holes

...

 

Definitely, but like I said I don't mind giving away a 1st round pick for a proven franchise QB... I was just hoping we could get away with giving up less with the holes we have yet to fill.  

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Definitely, but like I said I don't mind giving away a 1st round pick for a proven franchise QB... I was just hoping we could get away with giving up less with the holes we have yet to fill.  

 

Yup. 

The more I think about it, we just better pray Paye and Dayo work out. 

And I think we also will need to shift some folks around to fill holes, and get the most out of the contracts we have.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

21 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

We only have around 55M

Assume Q will be extended at 20M a year, and get 15+ in 2022.

 

so now you have 40M.

 

And now you have to solve for 

LT - Fisher is not looking like the answer. He's a FA. 

T Depth - Pryor is a FA

CB1 - Rhodes is a FA

CB Depth - Carrie is a FA, and our depth without him has been scary bad

RG - Both Glow and Reed are FAs

TE - MAC is a FA, Doyle is rumored to be ready to retire, Granson is not a traditional TE.

DE - AQM, Lewis, Rochell, Turay are all FAs. Sure Paye and Dayo might be starters, but you have zero depth returning. 

QB2 - it's a mess, but our current QB2 is a FA. I don't see Eason or Ehlinger as a long term answer.

S Depth - we have none lol

 

Then you have a few positions that are performing bad like MIKE and SS, who are not FAs, but are currently major holes in perfomance. 

 

I have a feeling we could see a trade with one of our proven players that doesn’t play as important of a position to get more cap space. Pascal is a FA too. Nelson doesn’t have to be done. You could franchise after 22 and get him for another year. Don’t know how that would play with him and his agents. We don’t have to pay a huge amount for any proven FA but we need to find good.

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I have a feeling we could see a trade with one of our proven players that doesn’t play as important of a position to get more cap space. Pascal is a FA too. Nelson doesn’t have to be done. You could franchise after 22 and get him for another year. Don’t know how that would play with him and his agents. We don’t have to pay a huge amount for any proven FA but we need to find good.

 

Nelson doesn't have to be, but he will.

I made a mistake in that his 5th year at around 14M is already accounted for in our 2022 numbers. 

He'll likely get a raise so let's say 18-19M next year. So we'll have likely 50M in cap to start.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Nelson doesn't have to be, but he will.

I made a mistake in that his 5th year at around 14M is already accounted for in our 2022 numbers. 

He'll likely get a raise so let's say 18-19M next year. So we'll have likely 50M in cap to start.

This is a good point. Really will only take up a extra 5 million or so from the increased cap and what we are already paying him.  His back issues though need to try and be fixed before this kind term deal is done. We should have plenty of cap to bring in a couple players that will be upgrades in the secondary. I think that’s where some money needs spent. Offense can find the couple extra pieces in the draft. I think pascal needs resigned. He is on pace for his normal 600 yards this year. I will say Lewis and Coz are probably a resign. The rest should go towards upgrading the secondary and finding good depth. 
 

Fisher will probably need to be resigned too. Right now there probably won’t be a upgrade coming in the draft that will be able to start right away. Unless we totally suck the rest of the year and bench Wentz for that 1st round pick.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Something to watch for after this season is if they decide to let Pascal go. Dulin is just as good of a blocker. Reich has mentioned how physical of a player fe is. He seems to fit the same mold as Pascal. Reich has mentioned how he thinks Dulin can be a very good WR in this league. Pascal won’t cost that much but it could save them a little bit of money.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

This is a good point. Really will only take up a extra 5 million or so from the increased cap and what we are already paying him.  His back issues though need to try and be fixed before this kind term deal is done. We should have plenty of cap to bring in a couple players that will be upgrades in the secondary. I think that’s where some money needs spent. Offense can find the couple extra pieces in the draft. I think pascal needs resigned. He is on pace for his normal 600 yards this year. I will say Lewis and Coz are probably a resign. The rest should go towards upgrading the secondary and finding good depth. 
 

Fisher will probably need to be resigned too. Right now there probably won’t be a upgrade coming in the draft that will be able to start right away. Unless we totally suck the rest of the year and bench Wentz for that 1st round pick.

50M will not go far though. Not saying all the guys below will be brought back, but you're looking at something close to....

 

A decent LT will be 10-20. A depth guy 2-5 more M.

Whoever is at RG will like get 7+ (Glow got 7.5 this year)

If Rhodes is back, he'll get minimum 5M, or we'd spend more on someone else.

Carrie is our best depth guy, and he'll get 2+M

We'll likely resign MAC, and he'll get 5M or more

TY, who knows, but he got 8M. We'll need to add a slot/Z type if he retires. 

Pascal will likely be back and he'll get 5M or more

I can see both AQM and Lewis back at 5Mish each, so that's 10Mish.

We have no S depth, and Sendejo costed us 1+M, and might cost us more next year.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

50M will not go far though. Not saying all the guys below will be brought back, but you're looking at something close to....

 

A decent LT will be 10-20. A depth guy 2-5 more M.

Whoever is at RG will like get 7+ (Glow got 7.5 this year)

If Rhodes is back, he'll get minimum 5M, or we'd spend more on someone else.

Carrie is our best depth guy, and he'll get 2+M

We'll likely resign MAC, and he'll get 5M or more

TY, who knows, but he got 8M. We'll need to add a slot/Z type if he retires. 

Pascal will likely be back and he'll get 5M or more

I can see both AQM and Lewis back at 5Mish each, so that's 10Mish.

We have no S depth, and Sendejo costed us 1+M, and might cost us more next year.

I am not worried about the cap. The colts have a great cap guy and have never really got into problems with the cap. My thing is will Ballard be willing to go find a couple of these pieces in FA or trade. I am done waiting on guys in the draft to develop at CB. 

[EastStreet]

17 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I am not worried about the cap. The colts have a great cap guy and have never really got into problems with the cap. My thing is will Ballard be willing to go find a couple of these pieces in FA or trade. I am done waiting on guys in the draft to develop at CB. 

This is the fist year we're stressed because of big contracts coming due. 

And we have more holes this year than last. 

[csmopar]

2 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Why? If he is playing like a franchise QB that shouldn’t be a nightmare. It means we can scratch QB off as a future need. Sure makes things easier heading into next season. 22 would be the first year Reich would have the same QB instead of having to start over.

Let’s say Wentz is still playing well, a top ten or top 5 pick could bring a HUGE haul that would lead to other chances to upgrade at multiple positions or get a stud at a position of need. For example McCreary from Auburn would make a hell of a CB upgrade for us. But he’ll likely go top 10 if not top 5

[EastStreet]

27 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Let’s say Wentz is still playing well, a top ten or top 5 pick could bring a HUGE haul that would lead to other chances to upgrade at multiple positions or get a stud at a position of need. For example McCreary from Auburn would make a hell of a CB upgrade for us. But he’ll likely go top 10 if not top 5

But you'd still be looking for a QB in a bad QB class. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just seeing this thread, as usual you come through. I will give you mine shortly.

[MPStack]

8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

But you'd still be looking for a QB in a bad QB class. 

I suspect there will still be a lot miserable folks, with not having that first RD pick, regardless how well Wentz plays. 

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, MPStack said:

I suspect there will still be a lot miserable folks, with not having that first RD pick, regardless how well Wentz plays. 

Yup.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't happy with the trade when it happened. But I warmed up. And a 1st and 3rd is just not that much for a guy if he can be top 10ish. And I've been pretty happy every single game given the context. 

 

And sure, giving up a 1st any year sucks, but overall, I just really doubt we'll be top 10 in the draft order anyway.

 

And we've now traded two 1st round picks. One for Defo and one for Wentz. Love Defo, but his addition really hasn't changed a lot. The whole 3T is the key to our D sounds more like another coach-speak moment added to the long list.  Wentz however has kept us in every game despite a lot of other bad stuff going on.

[csmopar]

18 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

But you'd still be looking for a QB in a bad QB class. 

No. Maybe I’m not saying this right. Let me try again.

 

Wentz has been playing very well against some top Flight teams and while he has not been the reason we are 1-4, we are still 1-4.

 

so let’s say he keeps playing at a high level tomorrow and we still lose to the Texans. Which I hope doesn’t happen, but it does and we end up 1-5, and then we keep losing despite Wentz’s good play, then what? What if by week 11, we’re 4-7 and still trailing the Titans by two games and way out of a wildcard spot, do you play Wentz the last 6 games, or sit him and get our 1 back. Which could then be used to get some difference makers in the draft next year. 
 

in my mind, this scenario is plausible given the situation at hand. Wentz playing well enough to be our franchise QB going forward, but still missing the play offs and/or having a top 10 or better pick only for it to go to the Eagles. 

now the opposite could happen and we go on a run and make the playoffs where anything is possible. Then this is all moot anyway.

[JediXMan]

Still annoyed Ballard let Autry walk. Not only was he a well rounded player but he was durable. So far this season the DL pressure has been disappointing.

[Zoltan]

5 minutes ago, JediXMan said:

Still annoyed Ballard let Autry walk. Not only was he a well rounded player but he was durable. So far this season the DL pressure has been disappointing.

Autry pff grade 51.3 with 6 solo tackles, 3 sacks

Lewis pff grade 76.2 with 8 solo tackles, 2 sacks

Turay pff grade 55.3 with 2 assist tackles, 2 sacks

Muhammed pff grade 65 with 12 solo tackles, 6 assists, 3 sacks

 

I think we are doing okay without him, not saying that the DL hasn't been disappointing I just think people are remembering Autry with Rose colored glasses.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

No. Maybe I’m not saying this right. Let me try again.

 

Wentz has been playing very well against some top Flight teams and while he has not been the reason we are 1-4, we are still 1-4.

 

so let’s say he keeps playing at a high level tomorrow and we still lose to the Texans. Which I hope doesn’t happen, but it does and we end up 1-5, and then we keep losing despite Wentz’s good play, then what? What if by week 11, we’re 4-7 and still trailing the Titans by two games and way out of a wildcard spot, do you play Wentz the last 6 games, or sit him and get our 1 back. Which could then be used to get some difference makers in the draft next year. 
 

in my mind, this scenario is plausible given the situation at hand. Wentz playing well enough to be our franchise QB going forward, but still missing the play offs and/or having a top 10 or better pick only for it to go to the Eagles. 

now the opposite could happen and we go on a run and make the playoffs where anything is possible. Then this is all moot anyway.

 

We're not going to sit Wentz just to sit him regardless of record. Now we might find some convenient minor surgery that he might need as an excuse to close him down for the year lol... but doubt that either.

 

The likeliest situation is that we'll have a mid round pick, not a top 10. We'd have to get in the 10-11 loss space to get a top 10 pick. We have one win, and should have 5 more easily vs HoustonX2, JaxX2, and the Jets. Then you have 3 toss up games with NE, LVR, and TN. We'll be dogs to SF, TB, Bills, and Cards, but wouldn't be surprised if we took one of those. If we win the 5 easy games, and beat TN, we're likely a coinflip at that point for the division. I don't think the AFCS will get a WC this year. 

 

But regardless of what happens, if Wentz continues playing well, a 1st and 3rd was cheap. 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I went B as far as his grade. He has played good for the most part, I went B, because if we had Luck I think we would be 2-3, with Peyton probably 3-2 if not 4-1. Wentz is not why we lost Monday though. 

 

Others:

2.Yes for now, I think he is above average to good

 

3. No, I was against the trade because of his injury history

 

4. I went 6/7

 

5. I went Bad, I almost went Clown show because if Wentz gets injured it is over IMO. I don't want to call Eason a clown because I think he is better than Painter. Painter was a clown show.