It's ok to not be ok

[Dogg63]

Jim's suffered from depression over the years and lost, perhaps the love of his life, a few years back, right before his arrest. His push for the Colts organization to work hard to de-stigmatize mental illness is impressive. Too many are lost to suicide when they cannot admit their affliction and get some help. This is a worthy effort.

 

Note: lots of Colts greats are featured in the video

 

 

[Nadine]

31 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

Jim's suffered from depression over the years and lost, perhaps the love of his life, a few years back, right before his arrest. His push for the Colts organization to work hard to de-stigmatize mental illness is impressive. Too many are lost to suicide when they cannot admit their affliction and get some help. This is a worthy effort.

 

Note: lots of Colts greats are featured in the video

 

 

We need to deal with widespread mental health problems and addiction and rampant suicide.  Help is not readily available, if at all.  I don't know anyone whose life hasn't been touched in some way by one or more of these.

 

So proud of this organization for taking this on. It is desperately needed

[life long]

On 4/22/2021 at 12:52 PM, Nadine said:

We need to deal with widespread mental health problems and addiction and rampant suicide.  Help is not readily available, if at all.  I don't know anyone whose life hasn't been touched in some way by one or more of these.

 

So proud of this organization for taking this on. It is desperately needed

I disagree that help isn't readily available. My mother was a therapist and social worker.  There are several free hot lines as well as free in person counciling for all these afflictions. These problems do touch us all in some way and we can't end all of societies problems. This is a step in the right direction and am also proud, I just don't think its fair to act like there isn't a nationwide effort already in existence that is readily available. 

[Jackie Daytona]

36 minutes ago, life long said:

I disagree that help isn't readily available. My mother was a therapist and social worker.  There are several free hot lines as well as free in person counciling for all these afflictions. These problems do touch us all in some way and we can't end all of societies problems. This is a step in the right direction and am also proud, I just don't think its fair to act like there isn't a nationwide effort already in existence that is readily available. 

You can disagree, but help is far, far, from readily available to all in society....regardless of location.... It's just not that easy.  I know.  I've walked into a clinic, asked for help, and after an interview, been sat down to watch videos for multiple appointments.... If I had no private insurance, even that wouldn't have been offered..... To act like economically struggling rural areas have ease of access to mental health professionals and facilities is a farce.... 

[NannyMcafee]

I can see why the players act like family. They are involved in efforts like these. 

[life long]

45 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

You can disagree, but help is far, far, from readily available to all in society....regardless of location.... It's just not that easy.  I know.  I've walked into a clinic, asked for help, and after an interview, been sat down to watch videos for multiple appointments.... If I had no private insurance, even that wouldn't have been offered..... To act like economically struggling rural areas have ease of access to mental health professionals and facilities is a farce.... 

Phone hotlines are free nationwide and your evidence is anecdotal. Also churches offer free counseling on all three counts of mental illness we are discussing. So we can agree to disagree. 

[GoColts8818]

4 hours ago, life long said:

I disagree that help isn't readily available. My mother was a therapist and social worker.  There are several free hot lines as well as free in person counciling for all these afflictions. These problems do touch us all in some way and we can't end all of societies problems. This is a step in the right direction and am also proud, I just don't think its fair to act like there isn't a nationwide effort already in existence that is readily available. 

There clearly isn’t enough help or else this wouldn’t be as big of a problem as it is.  Even if there is enough help there is a stigma in our society about getting help if you need it and that’s a big part of what this program is about trying to encourage people to get help they need.  What the Colts are doing is a drop in that bucket but several organizations are trying to make this priority right now and I think that’s a good thing and not just because the Colts are one of them.  

[Nadine]

8 hours ago, Shafty138 said:

You can disagree, but help is far, far, from readily available to all in society....regardless of location.... It's just not that easy.  I know.  I've walked into a clinic, asked for help, and after an interview, been sat down to watch videos for multiple appointments.... If I had no private insurance, even that wouldn't have been offered..... To act like economically struggling rural areas have ease of access to mental health professionals and facilities is a farce.... 

 

4 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

There clearly isn’t enough help or else this wouldn’t be as big of a problem as it is.  Even if there is enough help there is a stigma in our society about getting help if you need it and that’s a big part of what this program is about trying to encourage people to get help they need.  What the Colts are doing is a drop in that bucket but several organizations are trying to make this priority right now and I think that’s a good thing and not just because the Colts are one of them.  

Agree,

 

I have tried to get help for someone.

 

I'm glad there are some resources out there but when I looked, I couldn't find it.

 

I am tremendously relieved to see this issue have a light shone on it.

 

I don't mean to dismiss the people working in mental health already, I'm thankful that some people find their way to help

 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

11 hours ago, Shafty138 said:

To act like economically struggling rural areas have ease of access to mental health professionals and facilities is a farce....

This is true. Nationwide phone lines aren’t enough. Can you imagine having an addiction to a drug and needing physical help and being told to just call a hotline for guidance? Or just call your local church... Mental illness is the same concept. People don’t need a phone line to call. They need a professional to sit with them. And a self proclaimed pastor with no formal training whatsoever is not the answer. 

 

10 hours ago, life long said:

Phone hotlines are free nationwide and your evidence is anecdotal. Also churches offer free counseling on all three counts of mental illness we are discussing.

 

[OffensivelyPC]

On 4/22/2021 at 2:18 PM, Dogg63 said:

Jim's suffered from depression over the years and lost, perhaps the love of his life, a few years back, right before his arrest. His push for the Colts organization to work hard to de-stigmatize mental illness is impressive. Too many are lost to suicide when they cannot admit their affliction and get some help. This is a worthy effort.

 

Note: lots of Colts greats are featured in the video

 

 

I once heard that in most cases, suicide is death by depression and it changed the way I thought about it.  When my wife and I lost our firstborn and saw a therapist I saw what it was to live with it... really for the first time.  There's a lot of learning how to cope and helping those who struggle with depression cope.  It takes a lot of time and it's different for everyone.  But it definitely starts with looking at it differently. 

 

I'll be the first to admit how wrong I was about depression and how to treat others struggling with it.  But I am glad I did learn because my wife once told me she was driving and just felt like undoing the seatbelt and running off the road.  Had I ignored that, there might've been a day where it was too late.  And who could live with themselves knowing that, changing nothing, and then have it actually happen?  I know that that's often the question for those affected by the suicide of a loved one. 

 

Initiatives like this are the start and I'm sad to see that it's necessary  to have a "Kick the Stigma" week in the same way that we even have to have a breast cancer awareness or black lives matter movement.  We shouldn't have to teach people that these things matter.  But I am still glad people cared enough to start supportive movements like Kicking the Stigma.

[GoColts8818]

7 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

This is true. Nationwide phone lines aren’t enough. Can you imagine having an addiction to a drug and needing physical help and being told to just call a hotline for guidance? Or just call your local church... Mental illness is the same concept. People don’t need a phone line to call. They need a professional to sit with them. And a self proclaimed pastor with no formal training whatsoever is not the answer. 

 

In a lot of cases they need care from psychologist and meds.  Those things are not cheap.  A lot of mental illness can’t be treated by talking to someone alone.  Luckily some can and most can after meds get you to a level you can function in that setting.  
 

so it’s safe to say I am with you in that I disagree that the amount of help that’s needed is not widely available.

[Nadine]

23 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

In a lot of cases they need care from psychologist and meds.  Those things are not cheap.  A lot of mental illness can’t be treated by talking to someone alone.  Luckily some can and most can after meds get you to a level you can function in that setting.  
 

so it’s safe to say I am with you in that I disagree that the amount of help that’s needed is not widely available.

Just getting people to admit that it is time to deal with anxiety / depression is a challenge.  Some people know that their thinking is not quite right but they put off getting help

 

I do think people worry about having a record of mental health treatment.

 

 

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Nadine said:

Just getting people to admit that it is time to deal with anxiety / depression is a challenge.  Some people know that their thinking is not quite right but they put off getting help

 

I do think people worry about having a record of mental health treatment.

 

 

Yeah that’s what exactly I think the Colts are trying to get people to do.  Admit they need help and it’s ok to need help.  

[RollerColt]

Another problem is that so many refuse to get help. We can have all the services in the world available, but if they don’t think they have a problem then they can’t be forced to get treatment without a court order. 
 

This has been the case with my family in both addiction and also mental illness. I have had one family member check themselves out of the mental hospital several times and just walk the streets When I asked why they didn’t retain them, the hospital claimed there was nothing they could do. 

[GoColts8818]

5 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Another problem is that so many refuse to get help. We can have all the services in the world available, but if they don’t think they have a problem then they can’t be forced to get treatment without a court order. 
 

This has been the case with my family in both addiction and also mental illness. I have had one family member check themselves out of the mental hospital several times and just walk the streets When I asked why they didn’t retain them, the hospital claimed there was nothing they could do. 

Again, I think that’s what the Colts are trying to do.  Encourage people to get help if they need it and say there is nothing wrong with getting help.  Still that’s the worst thing about most mental illnesses they make you not want to get help.  

[RollerColt]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

Again, I think that’s what the Colts are trying to do.  Encourage people to get help if they need it and say there is nothing wrong with getting help.  Still that’s the worst thing about most mental illnesses they make you not want to get help.  

Yes, I truly think this is a noble effort from the organization to promote awareness and to normalize this stuff. It's so hard to watch a loved one refuse help when they desperately need it. 

[life long]

11 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

This is true. Nationwide phone lines aren’t enough. Can you imagine having an addiction to a drug and needing physical help and being told to just call a hotline for guidance? Or just call your local church... Mental illness is the same concept. People don’t need a phone line to call. They need a professional to sit with them. And a self proclaimed pastor with no formal training whatsoever is not the answer. 

 

Those hotlines have saved countless lives. These spiritual leaders that you claim have no formal training and are self proclaimed is false in both counts. To be a community leader in a church often requires immense training for helping your congregation. In my opinion you are speaking on things you don't know. Those hotlines for addicts are also extremely helpful. Ask anyone in recovery. You act as if we appoint a bunch of therapists these problems will get solved. As many have pointed out many people who need help are the first to refuse it, and yet you can't understand the benefits of anonymously talking to someone about your problems for free. Id hope in a conversation where we are talking about helping people, taking shots at people genuinely trying to help would be off limits. Sadly these days people attack instead of react. Dont place blame or pass the buck. If you think you can do better than spiritual leaders be my guest.

[life long]

4 hours ago, Nadine said:

Just getting people to admit that it is time to deal with anxiety / depression is a challenge.  Some people know that their thinking is not quite right but they put off getting help

 

I do think people worry about having a record of mental health treatment.

 

 

In today's world could you blame them?

[life long]

4 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

In a lot of cases they need care from psychologist and meds.  Those things are not cheap.  A lot of mental illness can’t be treated by talking to someone alone.  Luckily some can and most can after meds get you to a level you can function in that setting.  
 

so it’s safe to say I am with you in that I disagree that the amount of help that’s needed is not widely available.

Medications are used to lessen symptoms. Talking to people is a bigger piece than you realize. How about group therapy with people who have severe mental illness... bi polar, schizo, multiple personalities.  Meds and therapy isn't the end all be all. To say so is deepening the stigma IMO. These are actual people no different than you or I. A person can overcome to the point where meds are reduced or eliminated completely. 

 

To the bolded... I disagree. If you consider the most common mental illnesses most are solely treated through talking to someone without meds. Medication is always the last resort. 

[Happy2BeHere]

I posted a thread about this a week or so ago, good read on the thread. Mental health degradation in my opinion is a direct result of the fast paced world we live in. In my opinion everything needs to slow down and cut back EXCEPT for when it comes to medical field. Cut back on football, cut back on work, cut back on cramming our kids brains full of responsibility from the second they empty the womb, cut back on responsibilities and stresses. Slow things down, that’s what the world needs IMO to greatly reduce mental health issues.

[ColtStrong2013]

2 hours ago, life long said:

Those hotlines have saved countless lives. These spiritual leaders that you claim have no formal training and are self proclaimed is false in both counts. To be a community leader in a church often requires immense training for helping your congregation. In my opinion you are speaking on things you don't know. Those hotlines for addicts are also extremely helpful. Ask anyone in recovery. You act as if we appoint a bunch of therapists these problems will get solved. As many have pointed out many people who need help are the first to refuse it, and yet you can't understand the benefits of anonymously talking to someone about your problems for free. Id hope in a conversation where we are talking about helping people, taking shots at people genuinely trying to help would be off limits. Sadly these days people attack instead of react. Dont place blame or pass the buck. If you think you can do better than spiritual leaders be my guest.

Pal, I work first hand with many church leaders... And I can assure you that while a few are cream of the crop, many in this state have no training, no education in counseling but claim to be “spiritual counselors” including for marriage and grief as it is a way to circumvent the laws that say you have to be a licensed and trained professional to be a counselor. They use the church to circumvent laws, restrictions and taxes. I won’t say they don’t provide support to people of their church and communities, but to act like most ministers are the equivalent to a professional counselor should be criminal. They are not. And nor are phone line counselors. 
 

The truth is there isn’t enough practicing counselors because that aspect of health care doesn’t get enough funding, doesn’t get enough insurance coverage and the stigma that people create prevent people in need from seeking out. I didn’t start my post by saying that the phone lines didn’t save lives... I know they have. I said they aren’t enough. For people that don’t need a phone line, but a genuine trained professional to sit face to face and over a series of sessions, that is not enough and not acceptable in this country, in my opinion.

[ColtStrong2013]

2 hours ago, life long said:

Medications are used to lessen symptoms. Talking to people is a bigger piece than you realize. How about group therapy with people who have severe mental illness... bi polar, schizo, multiple personalities.  Meds and therapy isn't the end all be all. To say so is deepening the stigma IMO. These are actual people no different than you or I. A person can overcome to the point where meds are reduced or eliminated completely. 

 

To the bolded... I disagree. If you consider the most common mental illnesses most are solely treated through talking to someone without meds. Medication is always the last resort. 

I agree with this. Medication is throwing a quick solution to a problem that is generally a mix of chemical imbalance, genetics and the lack of exercise and proper diet (which leads to even more chemical imbalance). 
 

medication is not the last resort in this country, it’s the first. And we can blame pharma and insurance on that... and the advertising that is allowed for those drugs in this country (it’s unthinkable in other countries). When patients go to doctors in this country, they ask them about medications and know the generic and name brand, the chemical compositions and the cost. The doctors are in a losing proposition from the minute they walk in the door. 

[Four2itus]

Also, the church based counseling I received required my agreeing to their religious doctrine as part of the "treatment". I did not agree....and therefore did without. 

[Four2itus]

2 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I agree with this. Medication is throwing a quick solution to a problem that is generally a mix of chemical imbalance, genetics and the lack of exercise and proper diet (which leads to even more chemical imbalance).

This is a complete "other" discussion, but I agree. I have said for decades...that we are just as open to addiction to the chemicals released inside our bodies relating to emotions...as we are the substances that we might ingest or somehow take into our bodies. 

[life long]

7 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I agree with this. Medication is throwing a quick solution to a problem that is generally a mix of chemical imbalance, genetics and the lack of exercise and proper diet (which leads to even more chemical imbalance). 
 

medication is not the last resort in this country, it’s the first. And we can blame pharma and insurance on that... and the advertising that is allowed for those drugs in this country (it’s unthinkable in other countries). When patients go to doctors in this country, they ask them about medications and know the generic and name brand, the chemical compositions and the cost. The doctors are in a losing proposition from the minute they walk in the door. 

Medications are given only after evaluation. So its definitely not the first option. Regardless somehow the conversation got switched from availability to quality. I never said anything about quality because that is reliant on several factors. Yes if you want the best help it'll likely cost you. My point is that it is available, even fairly readily available to anyone with a phone or a church. Yes more could always be done, that goes without saying for pretty much anything. I just disagree that help isn't available when it clearly is. The problem typically is its hard to force someone to get help against their will. You could have a million extra highly trained mental health professionals and not completely solve the problem. So again I am happy the Colts are shining a light on the topic. Maybe more people can realize half the battle is simply talking and acknowledging the problem without the social stigma.

[Nadine]

7 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I agree with this. Medication is throwing a quick solution to a problem that is generally a mix of chemical imbalance, genetics and the lack of exercise and proper diet (which leads to even more chemical imbalance). 
 

medication is not the last resort in this country, it’s the first. And we can blame pharma and insurance on that... and the advertising that is allowed for those drugs in this country (it’s unthinkable in other countries). When patients go to doctors in this country, they ask them about medications and know the generic and name brand, the chemical compositions and the cost. The doctors are in a losing proposition from the minute they walk in the door. 

I agree that self care can help a lot.  Diet, exercise, talking to friends all help.

 

Anxiety and depression can spiral when you are stressed and we all differ in how much we can reduce stress in our lives.  For example, If you are scrambling to make ends meet and you lose your job or you develop a serious health problem, or an important relationship ends whether by divorce or some other reason, or someone dies...it is easy to spiral down. 

 

It's hard to find a way to manage the stress. And it's easy to turn to bad food and drink......to isolate yourself.

 

It's hard to find either the will or the time to exercise, prepare healthy meals, talk to a therapist etc....  And things get worse

 

It's a complex problem.

 

If you have someone in your life who is prone to anxiety and depression, stay connected with them.  Bring them healthy food,, go for a walk with them, lend an ear.

 

Sometimes, a little support can help them through.

 

Sometimes medications, for a brief time can get you through the worst of it and help you get your balance back.

 

For example, when my dad died, my mom really became very negative.  Her doctor prescribed anti anxiety meds and it really helped.  We were able to have fun again.  She stopped being unwilling to engage in life.  She stopped focusing on negative things and constantly ranting about how terrible everything and everyone is.

 

People who are depressed are very hard to be with.  So, it's easy for them to become isolated

 

People who are prone to anxiety and depression have to learn to see and manage the triggers to the extent that they can. Many of us can, much of the time.

 

Not ignoring it is the key for all of us.  Whether it's you or someone you know.  Don't ignore it

[ColtStrong2013]

2 hours ago, life long said:

Medications are given only after evaluation. So its definitely not the first option. Regardless somehow the conversation got switched from availability to quality. I never said anything about quality because that is reliant on several factors. Yes if you want the best help it'll likely cost you. My point is that it is available, even fairly readily available to anyone with a phone or a church. Yes more could always be done, that goes without saying for pretty much anything. I just disagree that help isn't available when it clearly is. The problem typically is its hard to force someone to get help against their will. You could have a million extra highly trained mental health professionals and not completely solve the problem. So again I am happy the Colts are shining a light on the topic. Maybe more people can realize half the battle is simply talking and acknowledging the problem without the social stigma.

Medications are given by doctors to individuals through a simple texting conversation... Not a thorough evaluation. I won't go into details on why I know this as fact, but it is not uncommon. 

My whole conversation was about quality, and the fact that it is not available and accessible by the majority of the population. That is the problem. The fact that the only available help to many is via a phone line and through church is disgraceful in this country. 

[ColtStrong2013]

9 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Also, the church based counseling I received required my agreeing to their religious doctrine as part of the "treatment". I did not agree....and therefore did without. 

That's not uncommon. The problem with church based counseling for non members is the motive to bring them into their "church family." 

[life long]

2 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Medications are given by doctors to individuals through a simple texting conversation... Not a thorough evaluation. I won't go into details on why I know this as fact, but it is not uncommon. 

My whole conversation was about quality, and the fact that it is not available and accessible by the majority of the population. That is the problem. The fact that the only available help to many is via a phone line and through church is disgraceful in this country. 

Ok well I concede that the top quality might not be available to all. I will personally say that I too am well informed on the subject but the difference in our opinion is on the matter of the institutions we find credible more than the availability of institutions. I feel strongly about volunteer work and I'll admit I take some things strongly when it comes to perceived shots at those whose intentions are  to help and be available to those in need.

[life long]

6 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

That's not uncommon. The problem with church based counseling for non members is the motive to bring them into their "church family." 

From my knowledge of the topic all 12 step programs do follow by these church based guidelines. I find it sadly ironic that the same people who want to help people are the first to take shots at religion and the church. I will discuss no further to avoid a possible violation of site rules.

[chad72]

Good points, on all fronts, from several users.

 

I have to touch on the point @Happy2BeHere brought up. Slowing down.

 

When I met my wife, I was the high strung one, she was a super chill girl who went with the flow and she got that from her Dad. I was brought up in a "accomplishments is what you strive for and ambition is good" environment that was fast paced, she was a farmer's daughter brought up in a slow paced environment. After meeting me and living with me and being married for nearly 20 years, I have unfortunately dragged her down to my side a bit.  

 

She feels rushed and stressed, but then life and responsibilities happen with a child too. Managing finances wasn't at the top of her priority list but I made sure she was involved in more and as a result, the stress comes along. However, I am realizing there are different ways of doing the same thing, have to consciously realize it every day. This is the first year my teenage daughter has had some activity 3 days a week or more after school since October 2020. I have to handle her stress too when she comes back being 8-9 hours at school and sports activities (longer if she has to play other schools in inter-school matches in tennis) and choose my words carefully.  That was also why we insisted she drop some activity before starting these, and she bowed out of Girl Scouts. 

 

There is always a sacrifice or price you pay with time and lack of mental relaxation with more responsibility and activities you take on. Every family has to find the right balance so that you can chill and have some family time, it goes a LONG way to reduce stress, and shouldn't be taken lightly. 

 

Bottom line, mental health starts at home and if every family recognizes it and accommodates their own by slowing a bit down and taking the time, there will be fewer issues and cries for help beyond home, IMO. 

[Nadine]

7 minutes ago, chad72 said:

There is always a sacrifice or price you pay with time and lack of mental relaxation with more responsibility and activities you take on. Every family has to find the right balance so that you can chill and have some family time, it goes a LONG way to reduce stress, and shouldn't be taken lightly. 

Very true

 

One of my daughters is very type A and competitive.  She works hard all the time.  She works out hard all the time.  She makes a lot of money.  She is very successful.  But she's starting to hate her job because people know they can over load her and she'll just keep working more and more and more and get it all done.  I think they abuse her and recently, I've begun to ask her to consider the price she pays for this.

 

How long can she keep this up and still have space in her life......to relax and stay centered? How happy will she be if she keeps this pace up? How healthy will she be?

 

She is resistant to anything that slows her down but, to her credit she's taken up yoga and hiking........even though she strongly prefers boxing and spinning. She's eliminated alcohol from her diet and focused on healthy meals.  She cooks rather than eating out. She's a really good cook but had lost patience with it. She made brunch for us a couple of weeks ago and we just enjoyed each other for a few hours.

 

Just knowing that you are human and you really do need some peaceful quiet time and being willing to carve time out for that helps.

[chad72]

15 minutes ago, Nadine said:

Very true

 

One of my daughters is very type A and competitive.  She works hard all the time.  She works out hard all the time.  She makes a lot of money.  She is very successful.  But she's starting to hate her job because people know they can over load her and she'll just keep working more and more and more and get it all done.  I think they abuse her and recently, I've begun to ask her to consider the price she pays for this.

 

How long can she keep this up and still have space in her life......to relax and stay centered? How happy will she be if she keeps this pace up? How healthy will she be?

 

She is resistant to anything that slows her down but, to her credit she's taken up yoga and hiking........even though she strongly prefers boxing and spinning. She's eliminated alcohol from her diet and focused on healthy meals.  She cooks rather than eating out. She's a really good cook but had lost patience with it. She made brunch for us a couple of weeks ago and we just enjoyed each other for a few hours.

 

Just knowing that you are human and you really do need some peaceful quiet time and being willing to carve time out for that helps.

 

My wife's sister is like that. Very smart, type A, extremely giving and generous, and embraces being a workoholic. But at what price? Only she can answer it herself and realize it is OK to take a few steps backwards to take big steps forward. When that happens, only she will know.

[Nadine]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

My wife's sister is like that. Very smart, type A, extremely giving and generous, and embraces being a workoholic. But at what price? Only she can answer it herself and realize it is OK to take a few steps backwards to take big steps forward. When that happens, only she will know.

I think most of us would benefit from taking a step or two back, even if it is just once in a while

[ColtStrong2013]

13 hours ago, life long said:

Ok well I concede that the top quality might not be available to all. I will personally say that I too am well informed on the subject but the difference in our opinion is on the matter of the institutions we find credible more than the availability of institutions. I feel strongly about volunteer work and I'll admit I take some things strongly when it comes to perceived shots at those whose intentions are  to help and be available to those in need.

I’m a volunteer that assists in building ramps for elderly and eye screening through the Lions Club. They provide good services, but they are not the same as a professional engineer and contractor that designs and builds ramps, nor are they licensed optometrists. That’s not diminishing their work, that’s just being honest. Those services go to the availability and expense, just the same as the mental health services that volunteers and church organizations provide. I understand your passion for that. I simply said it isn’t enough and shouldn’t be accepted as enough. The Colts are doing their part to use their platform.

 

13 hours ago, life long said:

From my knowledge of the topic all 12 step programs do follow by these church based guidelines. I find it sadly ironic that the same people who want to help people are the first to take shots at religion and the church. I will discuss no further to avoid a possible violation of site rules.

 

People can genuinely care about other human beings and be against organized religion... they are not mutually exclusive.

[Shive]

6 hours ago, life long said:

From my knowledge of the topic all 12 step programs do follow by these church based guidelines.

I don't believe 12 step is specifically religious, but in the big book, AA presents it in religious terms. My wife uses 12 step at work without the religious aspect, since it can just put up another barrier for people that are not religious. Instead, she approaches it from the perspective of "forces in this world that are greater than ourselves". Either they're religious and immediately understand it in that context or she relates in terms of things like forces of nature or laws of physics.

[life long]

6 hours ago, Shive said:

I don't believe 12 step is specifically religious, but in the big book, AA presents it in religious terms. My wife uses 12 step at work without the religious aspect, since it can just put up another barrier for people that are not religious. Instead, she approaches it from the perspective of "forces in this world that are greater than ourselves". Either they're religious and immediately understand it in that context or she relates in terms of things like forces of nature or laws of physics.

I completely agree. Yet many are immediately turned off by the program because they can't help but relate it to religion. 

[Shive]

I've had to remove/edit a few posts that veered way too much into a religious discussion. Please keep the conversation relevant to the topic at hand, kicking the stigma.

[cbear]

It's the stigma, not the lack of help imo. Sometimes, it takes spiritual counseling. Sometimes behavior therapy, sometimes medication. Sometimes a simple life change. But unless you think of mental health like you do physical health, it will never be resolved as well as it could be. 

[Four2itus]

4 hours ago, life long said:

Yet many are immediately turned off by the program because they can't help but relate it to religion. 

I appreciate what religious groups bring to the American population. They provide hope in a way that few groups can. That said, I respectfully disagree with the notion that the issue of counselling through the church, is because of non religious folks being unable to deal with the "relatability" of religious doctrine. 

 

To stay on topic, there absolutely IS a stigma in relation to mental heath issues. From the moment you discuss it with your health provider...it goes on your record. It can affect many things....the very least of which is your immediate family's opinion of you (should your challenges become known). It goes way deeper than that. I personally have two experiences with church based counselling, and one experience with medical records and how they can affect your life. 

 

The first was in college. I discovered that my girlfriend was cheating on me (actually walked in on them), and for several weeks, I was a basket case. I went to a local church to get some counselling. To sum up the meeting, my issue was that I had not accepted a particular deity into my life. 

 

The second was when I was getting married at the age of 25. I approached a local church as my wife to be, wanted to be married in a church. In our first meeting, we were asked if we had lived together...and we shared that we had. We were shamed for this, and told that if we would agree to counselling, we might be able to get around this "issue". To keep it simple, the meeting was simply about the two of us accepting a particular deity of their faith into our lives. We didn't, so the counselling ended. 

 

The medical records things truly caught me by surprise. In a visit with my physician, I was asked if I smoked. I declared no, but I admitted that I had smoked pot. When the doctor asked "how much", I answered, "Maybe a couple of hits a day. I thought nothing of it. Two months later I was kicked off of our insurance because I had falsely claimed I didn't smoke. Furious, I contacted the insurance company, and they shared that my physician had on record that I smoked two marijuana cigarettes per day. I contacted the State of Oregon, and they could NOT reverse what that physician had put on record even though it was grossly inaccurate. 

 

Lesson? Since that day....I am veryyyy careful as to what I admit to my doctor. The last thing I want on my record, is that I am having mental health issues. Damn right there is a stigma....