Andrew Luck On The Dan Patrick Show...

[UndecidedFrog]

If you average 14 rushes/game, you are a running QB. You can also be a passing QB (which he is). Just like a RB can be a runner and a pass catcher, a TE can be a receiving TE and a blocking TE, etc.

Yes, RG3 is a passing QB too. But he is also a running QB, as the stats have shown.

RG3

2011: attempted rushes = 179

2010: attempted rushes = 149

Andrew Luck:

2011: attempted rushes = 47

2010: attempted rushes = 55

Peyton Manning:

1997: attempted rushes = 49

1996: attempted rushes = 42

[braveheartcolt]

Good for him.

So when he throws the ball 2 fewer times than Luck in 2011, and 82 times more than Luck in 2010, for a net difference of 80 over their final two collegiate seasons the fact that he might run more is irrelevant.

He's passing more than Luck and able to make more plays with his legs on top of it. That's a positive attribute more than a negative. Commonsense.

It's not like he's Vick in college where he ran 223 times to 332 passes...

Amazing...

Luck ran on 10.4% of his snaps, Griffin on 30.8%, and Vick (based on the numbers mentioned above) on 40.22%.

As there are no formal definitions on what constitues a 'run happy' QB, I'll stick. But the percentages are quite telling.......

[GAColt]

Good for him.

So when he throws the ball 2 fewer times than Luck in 2011, and 82 times more than Luck in 2010, for a net difference of 80 over their final two collegiate seasons the fact that he might run more is irrelevant.

He's passing more than Luck and able to make more plays with his legs on top of it. That's a positive attribute more than a negative. Commonsense.

It's not like he's Vick in college where he ran 223 times to 332 passes...

Amazing...

Just because his offense is designed to run more doesn't mean he is able to make more plays with his legs, that's just a difference in offensive philosophy. If Stanford ran the spread offense, Luck would have more than 47 rushing attempts.

I'm not so sure running that much is an attribute in the NFL. How many games does Vick miss every year?

[FireJimCaldwell]

When Luck is a passing QB, and RGIII has thrown more passes than Luck in the same # of games over their final 2 seasons RGIII is a running QB.

Yeah makes perfect sense.

Baylor ran 1000 plays in 2012. Griffin threw/ran/caught the ball in 58.2% of them.

Stanford ran 935 plays in 2012. Luck threw/ran/caught the ball in 48.3% of them.

Baylor had 7632 yards. Griffin had a hand in 5007 or 65.6% of them.

Stanford had 6361 yards. Luck had a hand in 3680 or 57.8% of them.

Ignore facts if they don't fit the Luck-Agenda...

[UndecidedFrog]

When Luck is a passing QB, and RGIII has thrown more passes than Luck in the same # of games over their final 2 seasons RGIII is a running QB.

Yeah makes perfect sense.

Baylor ran 1000 plays in 2012. Griffin threw/ran/caught the ball in 58.2% of them.

Stanford ran 935 plays in 2012. Luck threw/ran/caught the ball in 48.3% of them.

Baylor had 7632 yards. Griffin had a hand in 5007 or 65.6% of them.

Stanford had 6361 yards. Luck had a hand in 3680 or 57.8% of them.

Ignore facts if they don't fit the Luck-Agenda...

This only shows that Stanford uses its RBs to run more often than Baylor, who uses their QB to run in addition to their RBs. It also shows that RG3, Baylor's QB runs much more than Luck.

RG3 suffered at least one concussion (delivered by a Texas Tech DB) on a run. Luck has not suffered any concussion.

[Dan]

When Luck is a passing QB, and RGIII has thrown more passes than Luck in the same # of games over their final 2 seasons RGIII is a running QB.

Yeah makes perfect sense.

Because Stanford run the ball more often?! You're using nonsensical stats to fit your own agenda - a far more fair stat analysis is what they actually do when they get the ball. Luck runs 10% of the time, Griffin runs 31% of the time - more than three times as often. Let's not use illogical numbers because that reaches an illogical conclusion - fact is Griffin runs three times more often than Luck.

[thecardiacrll]

I think the misconception is RG3 is a runner because of the spread offense that Baylor ran. I believe this kid can run any offense have any of you seen his highschool tape? It was under center pocket passing he was incredible the accuracy is insane. Heres the video and tell me what you think.

this will be my last post of the day because Im a newbie. I'm enjoying this thread.

[Flash7]

I see a lot of stats that compare Luck and RGIII to one another. This is a bit misleading. They play in completely different styles of offenses. If you compare RGIII to another QB that played in a similar spread offense, Case Keenum, here's what you will get:

comp att yds. Pct. TD INT. Rting

267 369 3,998 72.4% 36 6 192.3 =RG3

comp att yds Pct. TD INT. Rting

428 603 5,631 71% 48 5 174.0 =Keenum

If you compare RGIII's numbers to another spread QB, you'll see that his numbers are inferior. The only thing that makes him special than other QB's in this system is his ability to run, which he did 179 times this past season. This is great in college, but we all agree that running QB's do not fare well in the NFL.

[FireJimCaldwell]

This only shows that Stanford uses its RBs to run more often than Baylor, who uses their QB to run in addition to their RBs. It also shows that RG3, Baylor's QB runs much more than Luck.

RG3 suffered at least one concussion (delivered by a Texas Tech DB) on a run. Luck has not suffered any concussion.

Final 2 years, 26 games each. Griffin threw the Ball more than Luck.

Griffin

2011 402

2010 454

Total 856

Luck

2011 404

2010 372

Total 776

[chad72]

Ultimately, both these QBs will have to adapt to the speed at the next level, go through progressions quickly at the next level, and will have to re-invent themselves constantly because NFL coaches will key in on a weakness if they see it (like how they could figure out Vick when forced to his right takes off running more often etc.). Their success at the next level will purely depend on that, IMO.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Because Stanford run the ball more often?! You're using nonsensical stats to fit your own agenda - a far more fair stat analysis is what they actually do when they get the ball. Luck runs 10% of the time, Griffin runs 31% of the time - more than three times as often. Let's not use illogical numbers because that reaches an illogical conclusion - fact is Griffin runs three times more often than Luck.

Over their final two years. Griffin threw the ball more than Luck in the same # of games. His running is gravy...

[FireJimCaldwell]

I see a lot of stats that compare Luck and RGIII to one another. This is a bit misleading. They play in completely different styles of offenses. If you compare RGIII to another QB that played in a similar spread offense, Case Keenum, here's what you will get:

comp att yds. Pct. TD INT. Rting

267 369 3,998 72.4% 36 6 192.3 =RG3

comp att yds Pct. TD INT. Rting

428 603 5,631 71% 48 5 174.0 =Keenum

If you compare RGIII's numbers to another spread QB, you'll see that his numbers are inferior. The only thing that makes him special than other QB's in this system is his ability to run, which he did 179 times this past season. This is great in college, but we all agree that running QB's do not fare well in the NFL.

Your #'s are a bit off on RGIII. Keenum ran more of a run & shoot as opposed to the spread... A higher propensity to throw the ball. Not exactly the same.

[UndecidedFrog]

Final 2 years, 26 games each. Griffin threw the Ball more than Luck.

Griffin

2011 402

2010 454

Total 856

Luck

2011 404

2010 372

Total 776

Yes, Stanford is a power run pro-style offense.

And Baylor is a spread offense.

But that doesn't change the fact that RG3 runs the ball three times more often than Luck.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Yes, Stanford is a power run pro-style offense.

And Baylor is a spread offense.

But that doesn't change the fact that RG3 runs the ball three times more often than Luck.

Nor does it change the fact that RGIII threw the ball more than Luck.

[Chris_21]

When Luck is a passing QB, and RGIII has thrown more passes than Luck in the same # of games over their final 2 seasons RGIII is a running QB.

Yeah makes perfect sense.

Baylor ran 1000 plays in 2012. Griffin threw/ran/caught the ball in 58.2% of them.

Stanford ran 935 plays in 2012. Luck threw/ran/caught the ball in 48.3% of them.

Baylor had 7632 yards. Griffin had a hand in 5007 or 65.6% of them.

Stanford had 6361 yards. Luck had a hand in 3680 or 57.8% of them.

Ignore facts if they don't fit the Luck-Agenda...

Great post. So true about the Luck Agenda part.

[JoKeR]

You guys are just arguing about labels.

RG3 is a passing qb, he's a pass first qb but he runs alot. That much running by a qb will make people weary because a injured franchise qb is the worst injury to have

[FireJimCaldwell]

You guys are just arguing about labels.

RG3 is a passing qb, he's a pass first qb but he runs alot. That much running by a qb will make people weary because a injured franchise qb is the worst injury to have

I doubt he runs as much in the NFL. Arians/Shanahan will have their Elway/Roethlisberger boot package in for either QB, but I doubt RGIII will be running as much in the NFL.

[Balzer40]

Great post. So true about the Luck Agenda part.

Agenda's work both ways. Ignoring that RG3 runs 3 times as often as true passing QB's, is no different than ignoring that RG3 passed the ball a lot too. Both arguments are true, but the amount of running he does stands out because it is so much more than Luck, therefore it's a safe assumption that he could be considered a running QB.

[Chris_21]

Agenda's work both ways. Ignoring that RG3 runs 3 times as often as true passing QB's, is no different than ignoring that RG3 passed the ball a lot too. Both arguments are true, but the amount of running he does stands out because it is so much more than Luck, therefore it's a safe assumption that he could be considered a running QB.

I actually seeing the pro RG3 people more objective when it comes to recognizing the talent Luck has, how he should be the first pick, deserves to be, etc. And also when it comes to things that RG3 needs to work on. When you suggest anything of the sort with Luck, or post something an analyst says that in some way suggests RG3 is better, then look out. Objectivetivity is removed. With some anyway.

RG3 ran more often in college no doubt. But as FireJimCaldwell pointed out, there is more to it than that.

[Balzer40]

I was watching highlights of RGIII this morning. It looks to me like he is strong, yes. He can throw it far.

But those completions were mostly blown coverages that I saw. He will have fewer of those in the NFL.

I also saw a lot of incompletions on things like 15 yard outs. I really don't care as much about how far a QB can throw. Russell could throw it a mile!!! RGIII also did not run a pro style offense and He didn't seem to drive his body through his throws. Some of that was because of pressure, but not always.

Luck looks deadly accurate to me and that's what I am looking for.

This is what I said about Griffins pro day. A lot of the short route throws he was making were off the mark and he threw them to the wrong spot. Way out in front or off the back shoulder. The announcers were gushing about him because many of them were still completed but didn't give any credit to the WR's for making the catches on bad throws. What is he going to do in the NFL when he's facing top level CB's defending his reciever's with pressure in his face? He'll either take off running or throw interceptions. I just think some people have fell in love with the fact that he can throw it far and fast, but I say, "who cares"? IMO he is not nearly as accurate as Luck and thats just one of the many reasons why I don't want him. He may turn into a great QB, but I would take my chances with Luck over Griffin anyday.

[Flash7]

I doubt he runs as much in the NFL. Arians/Shanahan will have their Elway/Roethlisberger boot package in for either QB, but I doubt RGIII will be running as much in the NFL.

The problem that I have with RGIII, (and I've stated this in other posts as well), is that he has a hard time going through his progressions. If you watch film on him, he looks at his first option, and if his first option is not open, he takes off running. This is partly the reason for the high rushing attempts. This will only be compounded in the NFL where receivers are not open and the QB must throw them open.

[FireJimCaldwell]

The problem that I have with RGIII, (and I've stated this in other posts as well), is that he has a hard time going through his progressions. If you watch film on him, he looks at his first option, and if his first option is not open, he takes off running. This is partly the reason for the high rushing attempts. This will only be compounded in the NFL where receivers are not open and the QB must throw them open.

I've watched a # of Baylor games and am downloading others along with Stanford games. I've rarely seen the 1 read and run. The few times that stick out was due to pressure being there which disrupted the scanning the field progression.

[Flash7]

I've watched a # of Baylor games and am downloading others along with Stanford games. I've rarely seen the 1 read and run. The few times that stick out was due to pressure being there which disrupted the scanning the field progression.

I will then ask you to watch the film that you have, and every time he drops back, objectively ask yourself does he throw to his first read? (Of course, there are plays when his first read is wide open and he throws to the open man, which is understandable.) My assertion is this: Because RGIII plays in a spread offense, the receivers are spread across the field and due to this, they are often facing single coverage. You and I know that a good receiver can usually beat 1-on-1 coverage and therefore RGIII's first read will usually be open. He hasn't relied on having to make a lot of reads in the system that he ran in college. That's why if you compare other spread attack QB's numbers to RGIII's, such as Graham Harrel's, Taylor Potts, or Keenum's you will see that they have completion percentages in the 70's. The offense is designed to take advantage of speedy receivers in 1on1 matchups. Now if other QB's have similar completion percentages and equal or greater TD's and less INT's, then they are better passers, right? But we discount Keenum, Harrel, etc... because of the system that they ran in college. The only difference with RGIII and those mentioned is his electrifying running ability, which may not be as much of an asset in the NFL.

While watching film on Luck, you can easily see Lucks head turn and scan the field when his first read is not open. You will notice that RGIII will look for his option and stare him down until he's open. There are instances where the play breaks down and he scrambles to afford more time, but inthe normal process of a play, he's one and done.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I will then ask you to watch the film that you have, and every time he drops back, objectively ask yourself does he throw to his first read? (Of course, there are plays when his first read is wide open and he throws to the open man, which is understandable.) My assertion is this: Because RGIII plays in a spread offense, the receivers are spread across the field and due to this, they are often facing single coverage. You and I know that a good receiver can usually beat 1-on-1 coverage and therefore RGIII's first read will usually be open. He hasn't relied on having to make a lot of reads in the system that he ran in college. That's why if you compare other spread attack QB's numbers to RGIII's, such as Graham Harrel's, Taylor Potts, or Keenum's you will see that they have completion percentages in the 70's. The offense is designed to take advantage of speedy receivers in 1on1 matchups. Now if other QB's have similar completion percentages and equal or greater TD's and less INT's, then they are better passers, right? But we discount Keenum, Harrel, etc... because of the system that they ran in college. The only difference with RGIII and those mentioned is his electrifying running ability, which may not be as much of an asset in the NFL.

While watching film on Luck, you can easily see Lucks head turn and scan the field when his first read is not open. You will notice that RGIII will look for his option and stare him down until he's open. There are instances where the play breaks down and he scrambles to afford more time, but inthe normal process of a play, he's one and done.

The games that I've watched they are quite similar. Luck uses the mismatches that his tight ends get as Griffin uses the some of the miss-matches that his wide receivers get.

Both seem to scan the field fairly well. Both could improve their pocket presence. Either one will be a drop off to what Indy is used to seeing(outside of last year).

Neither is head & shoulders above the other when it comes to passing in my opinion. Again I wouldn't compare the Baylor offense to Houston/Texas Tech(under Leach).

[GAColt]

When Luck is a passing QB, and RGIII has thrown more passes than Luck in the same # of games over their final 2 seasons RGIII is a running QB.

Yeah makes perfect sense.

Baylor ran 1000 plays in 2012. Griffin threw/ran/caught the ball in 58.2% of them.

Stanford ran 935 plays in 2012. Luck threw/ran/caught the ball in 48.3% of them.

Baylor had 7632 yards. Griffin had a hand in 5007 or 65.6% of them.

Stanford had 6361 yards. Luck had a hand in 3680 or 57.8% of them.

Ignore facts if they don't fit the Luck-Agenda...

I sure hope our decision makers don't rely on college stats when making the decision who to draft (especially when RG3 ran the spread offense and played against 5 of the worst 25 defenses in the nation). If they do, you will need to change your name to "fireryangrigson".

[bavanlan]

He threw the ball two less times than Luck.. That is the point. You're trying to bash him for being a bigger part of his teams offense.

He also threw the ball more than Luck did in 2010. So much for the running QB theory.

That's what makes him the 'QB' portion of a 'running QB'. Otherwise he's a RB, WR, Option QB, Wildcat QB, or the ever-inclusive 'Athlete' like Tim Tebow, Pat White, and probably Denard Robinson.

'Running QB' simply means he's a QB that runs more as a percentage than a 'Pocket QB'. It's not an insult.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I sure hope our decision makers don't rely on college stats when making the decision who to draft (especially when RG3 ran the spread offense and played against 5 of the worst 25 defenses in the nation). If they do, you will need to change your name to "fireryangrigson".

Each QB played in an offense they aren't going to run in the NFL.

Each QB played against weak defenses.

I just hope they do their due diligence, if I were Grigson I'd be visiting Texas A&M as well, but that's just me...

[FireJimCaldwell]

That's what makes him the 'QB' portion of a 'running QB'. Otherwise he's a RB, WR, Option QB, Wildcat QB, or the ever-inclusive 'Athlete' like Tim Tebow, Pat White, and probably Denard Robinson.

'Running QB' simply means he's a QB that runs more as a percentage than a 'Pocket QB'. It's not an insult.

I guess it depends on who's making the statement.

[bavanlan]

I guess it depends on who's making the statement.

Fair point. I imagine for the most part it's semantics.

[GoColts8818]

Will anyone be mad "IF" Irsey does "NOT" Draft Luck.........

I don't know if I will be mad but I will think its a huge mistake but I will still support rg3.

[SteelCityColt]

Very interesting reading in this thread and some interesting arguments. The one thing I'd say is trying to prove whose the better QB with the numbers is a bit futile given the only true way to do that is to put both of them in the same system with the same opponents with the same weapons. They can give an indication but that's it. Even combine numbers which are direct comparisons can be misleading.

Either way they both look exceptional prospects.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

A true hippie peace lover would have tie died rainbow smoke coming out of twin "bong shaped" exhausts....

They're called water pipes man... Water pipes. Watch your lingo!

[subvet]

They're called water pipes man... Water pipes. Watch your lingo!

Ahh, I see. Been out of the game since the 70s when a water pipe was either connected to your sink or was what smokers from the middle east used.

[Malakai432]

I doubt he runs as much in the NFL. Arians/Shanahan will have their Elway/Roethlisberger boot package in for either QB, but I doubt RGIII will be running as much in the NFL.

He will HAVE to run the ball much less. For instance Michael Vick had 76 rushing attempts last year and was significantly banged up, missed three games and played injured as well. He's going to need to limit his rushes somewhere between 60-100 in my opinion. I don't have faith that he can have 179 rushing attempts and maintain a healthy career in the NFL. I do have confidence though he will significantly lower the # of rush attempts.

Out of curiosity does anyone know how many fumbles both Luck and RGiii had? I can't seem to find any statistical data that relays how many fumbles they had.

[Warhorse]

I dont care if one ran more than the other. I dont care if they both ran the same. There is only one question. It is the question that Vick took years to figure out. When you have to make a decision....in micro seconds....and in college you saw defenses that allowed you to tuck in the ball and run, can you now train your decision making process (again the one that has to work with micro seconds) to look for your 4th, and 5th options. THAT is the question, and I think Luck is already there.

[FireJimCaldwell]

He will HAVE to run the ball much less. For instance Michael Vick had 76 rushing attempts last year and was significantly banged up, missed three games and played injured as well. He's going to need to limit his rushes somewhere between 60-100 in my opinion. I don't have faith that he can have 179 rushing attempts and maintain a healthy career in the NFL. I do have confidence though he will significantly lower the # of rush attempts.

Out of curiosity does anyone know how many fumbles both Luck and RGiii had? I can't seem to find any statistical data that relays how many fumbles they had.

Agreed.

Stanford's official football stats do not have an individual break down of their 13 fumbles. Looking at each game, he had 3 and lost 1.

http://www.gostanford.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2011-2012/teamcume.html#TEAM.TEM

Baylor's official football stats has Griffin tabbed at 11 with 5 lost.

http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2011-2012/indgbg.html#IGBG.FMB

[Fx Stryker]

Ummmm, didn't all the Luck, RGIII, and other player's threads get moved out of the Colts section? Don't you think that is saying something? Just sayin'.

[funktacious2]

Will anyone be mad "IF" Irsey does "NOT" Draft Luck.........

Even though I'd get over it, I certainly would be. I like how one analyst put it: "Luck is like the kid coming out of Calculus with an A+ so he knows his calculus, and the RG3 is the guy going into calculus who has all the making to succeed just as well or more, but you've got to take the sure thing and that is Luck." -referring to Luck's pro-ready offense in college.

I buy into the belief that there isn't going to be 1 who fails and 1 who succeeds. I do believe they will both be awesome, I just feel like Luck is more NFL ready and then he has that "it' factor that I feel in my gut. lol.

[Malakai432]

Agreed.

Stanford's official football stats do not have an individual break down of their 13 fumbles. Looking at each game, he had 3 and lost 1.

http://www.gostanford.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2011-2012/teamcume.html#TEAM.TEM

Baylor's official football stats has Griffin tabbed at 11 with 5 lost.

http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2011-2012/indgbg.html#IGBG.FMB

Excellent, thanks.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Excellent, thanks.

No problem...