Nick Chubb vs Jonathan Taylor

[Shadow_Creek]

So i'm writing this for the people that think we should be moving on Marlon Mack after this Season. The Browns brought in Nick Chubb from a college team were they ran him like a bell cow for 4 seasons and he too put up near similar stat numbers similar to Taylor who we drafted. That being said notice how the Browns are trying to find a one two punch for chubb so that he doesn't have to take on the full burden like he did in college similar to what Frank is trying to do with Taylor.  Duke Johnson plus chubb didn't work out so they went with Hunt and it looked like he didn't fan out either. So it may be a while before the Browns get that one two punch they were searching for however we here in Indy have that true one two punch to help out Taylor in Mack. 

[Dark Superman]

Taylor, Mack, and Hines is as good as it gets in the NFL. 

[MikeCurtis]

Part of me wonders what this group looks like in 2021

 

I see Mack going for FA $$ after this season

 

I think we hold onto Jordon Wilkins and he becomes the main backup to Taylor in 2021

 

Wilkins averaged 6 yds per carry in a reserve role.... he also plays very well on special teams

 

He will be one of the players on the bubble to make the bottom of the roster

 

I hope he makes it

 

 

 

 

[Hoose]

Mack Taylor Hines Wilkins.

With the FB being treated as the 4th TE. 

There is room for everybody....this year. The RB stable won’t look like this in 2021. 

 

 

[Jdubu]

3 hours ago, Legend_Coslosky said:

Taylor, Mack, and Hines is as good as it gets in the NFL. 

Until we see the kid in a Colts uniform and playing against NFL quality players, Mack and Hines are the only ones we know. Taylor will have to prove he can do all the little things that turns kids into pros. I hope for the best but he hasn’t don’t anything yet. Tap the brakes 

[Myles]

4 hours ago, Shadow_Creek said:

So i'm writing this for the people that think we should be moving on Marlon Mack after this Season. The Browns brought in Nick Chubb from a college team were they ran him like a bell cow for 4 seasons and he too put up near similar stat numbers similar to Taylor who we drafted. That being said notice how the Browns are trying to find a one two punch for chubb so that he doesn't have to take on the full burden like he did in college similar to what Frank is trying to do with Taylor.  Duke Johnson plus chubb didn't work out so they went with Hunt and it looked like he didn't fan out either. So it may be a while before the Browns get that one two punch they were searching for however we here in Indy have that true one two punch to help out Taylor in Mack. 

I don't think the Browns had a major concern to get a second stud RB behind Chubb.  Of course they wanted a decent backup.  They didn't really give too many carries to Hunt last season.   I think that was mostly due to Chubb running great.   

[jchandler7]

5 hours ago, Shadow_Creek said:

So i'm writing this for the people that think we should be moving on Marlon Mack after this Season. The Browns brought in Nick Chubb from a college team were they ran him like a bell cow for 4 seasons and he too put up near similar stat numbers similar to Taylor who we drafted. That being said notice how the Browns are trying to find a one two punch for chubb so that he doesn't have to take on the full burden like he did in college similar to what Frank is trying to do with Taylor.  Duke Johnson plus chubb didn't work out so they went with Hunt and it looked like he didn't fan out either. So it may be a while before the Browns get that one two punch they were searching for however we here in Indy have that true one two punch to help out Taylor in Mack. 

Just curious but why don't you think it's panned out having Hunt with Chubbs? Hunt had 464 total yards and 3 TD's in only 8 games with the Browns last season. That's decent backup numbers. The Browns also resigned him so he should have a full season (if he stays out of trouble) to show what he can do this year with Chubbs. I personally think Chubbs & Hunt is just as good of a combo as Taylor & Mack. Not trying to undermine your Taylor - Chubbs comparison, just don't understand your thoughts on Hunt with Cleveland. 

[Jackie Daytona]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

Part of me wonders what this group looks like in 2021

 

I see Mack going for FA $$ after this season

 

I think we hold onto Jordon Wilkins and he becomes the main backup to Taylor in 2021

 

Wilkins averaged 6 yds per carry in a reserve role.... he also plays very well on special teams

 

He will be one of the players on the bubble to make the bottom of the roster

 

I hope he makes it

 

 

 

 

Mack isn't gonna get any big dollar offers.  He's a RB.... And if Todd Gurley and his like don't get big money, a Marlon Mack isn't going to get other GMs to pony up.... If he's a Colt past next season, it will be on a good deal for the team for sure.

[crazycolt1]

In todays market I don't understand why some think Mack is going to want big money. 

The RB position is devalued big time compared to what it was in the past. 

The average shelf life for RBs is 5 years or so. Very few make a big impact after the age of 30. 

[MikeCurtis]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

In todays market I don't understand why some think Mack is going to want big money. 

The RB position is devalued big time compared to what it was in the past. 

The average shelf life for RBs is 5 years or so. Very few make a big impact after the age of 30. 

Ultimately, you may be right

 

but.... RBs in Mack’s situation regularly seek MUCH more than they are currently making..... He is slated to make $735k this year

 

Thats not much....

 

Will the Colts pay him  $4M, $6m,  $8m ?

 

 Does he expect more than $700k?......You betcha.....

 

With 15 plus FAs next year..... AND with adding our new “bell cow” RB... I think they won’t “pony up” to even market money for Mack after this year, with Wilkins on the roster 

 

Its seems like the biggest mistake made these days is signing big money to a 2nd contract RB..... it seems like it fails almost every time
 

But.... I could be wrong

[shasta519]

8 hours ago, Shadow_Creek said:

So i'm writing this for the people that think we should be moving on Marlon Mack after this Season. The Browns brought in Nick Chubb from a college team were they ran him like a bell cow for 4 seasons and he too put up near similar stat numbers similar to Taylor who we drafted. That being said notice how the Browns are trying to find a one two punch for chubb so that he doesn't have to take on the full burden like he did in college similar to what Frank is trying to do with Taylor.  Duke Johnson plus chubb didn't work out so they went with Hunt and it looked like he didn't fan out either. So it may be a while before the Browns get that one two punch they were searching for however we here in Indy have that true one two punch to help out Taylor in Mack. 

 

Chubb + Hunt has worked out very well for CLE.

 

And Chubb + Duke Johnson worked as well. They just saw an opportunity to sign Hunt for next to nothing...so they traded Johnson for a (likely to be) 3rd round pick.

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, jchandler7 said:

Just curious but why don't you think it's panned out having Hunt with Chubbs? Hunt had 464 total yards and 3 TD's in only 8 games with the Browns last season. That's decent backup numbers. The Browns also resigned him so he should have a full season (if he stays out of trouble) to show what he can do this year with Chubbs. I personally think Chubbs & Hunt is just as good of a combo as Taylor & Mack. Not trying to undermine your Taylor - Chubbs comparison, just don't understand your thoughts on Hunt with Cleveland. 

 

Until proven otherwise...it's definitely a better combo. In fact, I would argue that both Chubb and Hunt are better than Mack...and we have yet to see Taylor.

[Jdubu]

4 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Ultimately, you may be right

 

but.... RBs in Mack’s situation regularly seek MUCH more than they are currently making..... He is slated to make $735k this year

 

Thats not much....

 

Will the Colts pay him  $4M, $6m,  $8m ?

 

 Does he expect more than $700k?......You betcha.....

 

With 15 plus FAs next year..... AND with adding our new “bell cow” RB... I think they won’t “pony up” to even market money for Mack after this year, with Wilkins on the roster 

 

Its seems like the biggest mistake made these days is signing big money to a 2nd contract RB..... it seems like it fails almost every time
 

But.... I could be wrong

So under the numbers you listed, I’d be fine in giving Mack a 3 year contract that’s say 4 million guaranteed per year with escalating salary clauses with incentives that are reasonable. 
 

let’s say he gets a base of 4 million and hits say 1000 yards (maybe a combo of pass and run) he gets a nice bonus of 1 million. Gets 10 TD’s, another 1 million. Hits 1500 yards, he gets another 1 million and 15 Td’s etc.... if he has X# of touches, he gets a bonus (basically treating him as a starter cowbell and paying him accordingly). Now, you carry over the next year and escalator from his 4 million if he has reached these goals and gives him a guaranteed pay raise in the following year that equals what his incentives hit were. It protects him from being abused and used but not paid and it incentivized him to keep playing hard and fighting for more each game. He has to make it tough to take off the field because he is showing he is a star. You could even put in if he were to hit the first two year incentive marks, his 3rd year is guaranteed to be top 5 paid avg for RB’s in the league. If he doesn’t meet the incentives along the way, he makes 4 mil/yr for 3 seasons, while being subbed in and out with Taylor. It gives him some financial security with chance to really make money while also helping the team both financially and talent.

 

I’m sure they could work out something. but saying that, I highly doubt Mack would take a below market guarantee with potential to make above avg if he performs when he knows he has to share carries. Idk, it would be great to see more contracts structured like this but we know they don’t often structure reward contracts. 

[MikeCurtis]

20 hours ago, Jdubu said:

So under the numbers you listed, I’d be fine in giving Mack a 3 year contract that’s say 4 million guaranteed per year with escalating salary clauses with incentives that are reasonable. 
 

let’s say he gets a base of 4 million and hits say 1000 yards (maybe a combo of pass and run) he gets a nice bonus of 1 million. Gets 10 TD’s, another 1 million. Hits 1500 yards, he gets another 1 million and 15 Td’s etc.... if he has X# of touches, he gets a bonus (basically treating him as a starter cowbell and paying him accordingly). Now, you carry over the next year and escalator from his 4 million if he has reached these goals and gives him a guaranteed pay raise in the following year that equals what his incentives hit were. It protects him from being abused and used but not paid and it incentivized him to keep playing hard and fighting for more each game. He has to make it tough to take off the field because he is showing he is a star. You could even put in if he were to hit the first two year incentive marks, his 3rd year is guaranteed to be top 5 paid avg for RB’s in the league. If he doesn’t meet the incentives along the way, he makes 4 mil/yr for 3 seasons, while being subbed in and out with Taylor. It gives him some financial security with chance to really make money while also helping the team both financially and talent.

 

I’m sure they could work out something. but saying that, I highly doubt Mack would take a below market guarantee with potential to make above avg if he performs when he knows he has to share carries. Idk, it would be great to see more contracts structured like this but we know they don’t often structure reward contracts. 

Great response, but.... if you were Mack would you let number of touches be part of your pay?

 

He can’t control that

 

I think 5m is a minimum that he will want

 

Mack is a good back that looks better behind this line.

 

I think we need a hammer like Taylor and a shifty all around back that is a dual threat.  Mack hasn’t really shown he is a great pass catcher

 

My gut.... says that we let Mack loose after this year

[Myles]

20 hours ago, Jdubu said:

So under the numbers you listed, I’d be fine in giving Mack a 3 year contract that’s say 4 million guaranteed per year with escalating salary clauses with incentives that are reasonable. 
 

let’s say he gets a base of 4 million and hits say 1000 yards (maybe a combo of pass and run) he gets a nice bonus of 1 million. Gets 10 TD’s, another 1 million. Hits 1500 yards, he gets another 1 million and 15 Td’s etc.... if he has X# of touches, he gets a bonus (basically treating him as a starter cowbell and paying him accordingly). Now, you carry over the next year and escalator from his 4 million if he has reached these goals and gives him a guaranteed pay raise in the following year that equals what his incentives hit were. It protects him from being abused and used but not paid and it incentivized him to keep playing hard and fighting for more each game. He has to make it tough to take off the field because he is showing he is a star. You could even put in if he were to hit the first two year incentive marks, his 3rd year is guaranteed to be top 5 paid avg for RB’s in the league. If he doesn’t meet the incentives along the way, he makes 4 mil/yr for 3 seasons, while being subbed in and out with Taylor. It gives him some financial security with chance to really make money while also helping the team both financially and talent.

 

I’m sure they could work out something. but saying that, I highly doubt Mack would take a below market guarantee with potential to make above avg if he performs when he knows he has to share carries. Idk, it would be great to see more contracts structured like this but we know they don’t often structure reward contracts. 

With Taylor on board now, I don't think Ballard give Mack $5 million a year.  He's not going to be sought after in the league at a high dollar either.  Splitting carries this season could mean he rushes for 800 yards or so.   

[jlid]

Taylor may turn out to be a star for us, I certainly hope so. I don't really doubt the player, just the pick. I didn't like the pick because it's so easy to replace RB's on a dime, so if Mack's impending free agency played even a small part in the decision, I like it even less...What's next? Our punter is up for free agency next year, better draft one to groom?

[Jdubu]

2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Great response, but.... if you were Mack would you let number of touches be part of your pay?

 

He can’t control that

 

I think 5m is a minimum that he will want

 

Mack is a good back that looks better behind this line.

 

I think we need a hammer like Taylor and a shifty all around back that is a dual threat.  Mack hasn’t really shown he is a great pass catcher

 

My gut.... says that we let Mack loose after this year

I’m not sure what the realistic numbers or parameters would be but basically give him some option that causes him to at least think about staying past this season if he isn’t sought after on the open market. Maybe it’s a 1 yr deal or maybe no deal is offered. I could definitely see Mack not wanting pigeonholed into a contract that is only determined by what the team feeds him. My thought from doing this would be so he stays motivated and forced to show he is better than Taylor therefore getting the larger share of game day reps. He then also gets rewarded for that. I’d fully expect that he isn’t with us next season but if CB throws something out there that’s reasonable and team protected if he does poorly but above where he would get elsewhere if he blows up. It’s rare that players take these incentive laden types but 4 million base isn’t a bad starting spot to split carries and save the body. Perhaps it’s a 1,2 or 3 yr deal and he gets another contract out there after this one that he can get. He is pretty young still. Idk, I’m spitballing. 

2 hours ago, Myles said:

With Taylor on board now, I don't think Ballard give Mack $5 million a year.  He's not going to be sought after in the league at a high dollar either.  Splitting carries this season could mean he rushes for 800 yards or so.   

I’m not sure what Mack’s market will be. He was able to pass catch in college, I’m not sure why he hasn’t been able to do that here?? He is a pretty good runner and he pass protects pretty well so if we could get more from the catch side, no reason another team wouldn’t offer up around the 5 million/yr type contract. 

[Myles]

4 hours ago, jlid said:

Taylor may turn out to be a star for us, I certainly hope so. I don't really doubt the player, just the pick. I didn't like the pick because it's so easy to replace RB's on a dime, so if Mack's impending free agency played even a small part in the decision, I like it even less...What's next? Our punter is up for free agency next year, better draft one to groom?

I'm on the other side.   I didn't like the pick until I thought about it and Mack being a free agent next year.  I think it's a good idea to draft a RB every 4 years and not resign  your aging free agent RB.  

[funktacious2]

On 5/6/2020 at 9:28 AM, Shafty138 said:

Mack isn't gonna get any big dollar offers.  He's a RB.... And if Todd Gurley and his like don't get big money, a Marlon Mack isn't going to get other GMs to pony up.... If he's a Colt past next season, it will be on a good deal for the team for sure.

That's my thoughts exactly. I hope we offer Mack a nice contract, but nothing top dollar, just a nice 3 year deal. I personally don't see teams offering big money to the guy, especially now that he'll likely be splitting even more carries. If we can keep those two as a one two punch for the next few years it may be a position we don't have to worry much about. I could always be wrong but I think things might line up nicely to keep him without having to overpay.

[AwesomeAustin]

17 hours ago, jlid said:

Taylor may turn out to be a star for us, I certainly hope so. I don't really doubt the player, just the pick. I didn't like the pick because it's so easy to replace RB's on a dime, so if Mack's impending free agency played even a small part in the decision, I like it even less...What's next? Our punter is up for free agency next year, better draft one to groom?

I don’t think his impending FA had as much to do with it as Taylor Being capable of getting 1300yds rushing. Mack already had issues staying on the field and RBs don’t age well. I see gadget backup RBs like Hines getting a 2nd contract before a bell cow RB in our system. Even if Taylor goes off for three years the most I expect Ballard to sign him too would be a very front loaded contract we can get out from under with minimal dead money.