Chris Ballard at the Half-way Point (and Beyond)

[Myles]

30 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Sorry bro, but in this case you're the one that's wrong.  DD has said some, let's just say, confusing things in this thread, but he's right about the scheme.  Look at QBs that have played for Bruce Arians, Todd Haley etc.  Without a near elite OL, the Air Coryell offense leads to the QB getting hit a lot.  Scheme definitely came into play with the number of sacks that Luck took under Grigs/Pagano.

 

This year, yes the OL is definitely giving Luck more time...but Luck is also getting the ball out much quicker this year than in years past.  So, even if the Colts had the current OL when Pep or Chud were still here, Luck would have still been sacked more than he's been so far this year.  Not nearly as much as he was with the inferior OL's of years past..but more than this year with the new scheme.

 

they're both contributing factors

I would never deny that scheme is part of it.    The line is also part of it. 

[Myles]

22 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Thanks for saying that so clearly. 

 

I think AC, Kelly, and Mewhort 2.0 have been here for years. And Brissett got murdered last year under the same coaching staff we had for 5 years.

 

You seem to be indirectly saying that the addition of Nelson is the reason.  That's okay, I predicted many would say that.

Nelson is a big part of it.   He is a stud out there.   When you have a player like him, it also makes the rest of the line better.   Ballard drafting Smith is a big part of it too.   We had depth which allowed the line to absorb the O-line injuries we have had this year.   Depth was never here with Grigson.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Myles said:

Nelson is a big part of it.   He is a stud out there.   When you have a player like him, it also makes the rest of the line better.   Ballard drafting Smith is a big part of it too.   We had depth which allowed the line to absorb the O-line injuries we have had this year.   Depth was never here with Grigson.

Sure Nelson's part of it.  And finding out Smith can fill in the hole at RT, despite being not being considered T material when drafted, so we were told,  is another big part of it.

 

But the line as a whole didn't play well this year until AC returned at LT and Smith played quality RT.

[chad72]

14 minutes ago, Myles said:

Nelson is a big part of it.   He is a stud out there.   When you have a player like him, it also makes the rest of the line better.   Ballard drafting Smith is a big part of it too.   We had depth which allowed the line to absorb the O-line injuries we have had this year.   Depth was never here with Grigson.

 

I am looking forward to the OL tests vs the Jaguars' DL, to be honest. 

 

The games vs Jacksonville, at Houston and home game vs a possibly improved Cowboys' unit that I anticipate are key games I look for. Winning those will be enough of a statement, IMO. Definitely excited for the second part of the season.

[Myles]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Sure Nelson's part of it.  And finding out Smith can fill in the hole at RT, despite being not being considered T material when drafted, so we were told,  is another big part of it.

 

But the line as a whole didn't play well this year until AC returned at LT and Smith played quality RT.

Actually the line did play OK without AC.   They were not what they are now, but they weren't what we had in previous years.   Nelson helps AC play better.  

I would say that an O-line needs a few weeks to gel too.  

[crazycolt1]

45 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Thanks for saying that so clearly. 

 

I think AC, Kelly, and Mewhort 2.0 have been here for years. And Brissett got murdered last year under the same coaching staff we had for 5 years.

 

You seem to be indirectly saying that the addition of Nelson is the reason.  That's okay, I predicted many would say that.

I did not say that at all. Not indirectly either. Now quit putting your own meanings and twisting what I said to make yourself look better.

It's the talent level across the whole offensive line.

By adding two draft picks it was Ballard who completed the line.

When Manning was here the offensive line was set up to pass protect him along with the RB. (Addai)

Ballard set this line up for both passing and running. Big difference.

 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, J@son said:

 

Sorry bro, but in this case you're the one that's wrong.  DD has said some, let's just say, confusing things in this thread, but he's right about the scheme.  Look at QBs that have played for Bruce Arians, Todd Haley etc.  Without a near elite OL, the Air Coryell offense leads to the QB getting hit a lot.  Scheme definitely came into play with the number of sacks that Luck took under Grigs/Pagano.

 

This year, yes the OL is definitely giving Luck more time...but Luck is also getting the ball out much quicker this year than in years past.  So, even if the Colts had the current OL when Pep or Chud were still here, Luck would have still been sacked more than he's been so far this year.  Not nearly as much as he was with the inferior OL's of years past..but more than this year with the new scheme.

 

they're both contributing factors

The thing is with the O-line we have now it makes no difference what scheme is used it will work.  Now there is the big difference. There is where the talent level comes into play.

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

The thing is with the O-line we have now it makes no difference what scheme is used it will work.  Now there is the big difference. There is where the talent level comes into play.

 

of course talent level comes into play.  no one denied that.  But scheme does make a difference as well.  As I said in my previous post, if we were still running the offense of Pep or chud then Luck very likely is sacked more than just 10 times this year.  That doesn't mean he'd be sacked as much as he was under Grigson, but it's highly likely he would have been sacked more this year in a different scheme.  

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I did not say that at all. Not indirectly either. Now quit putting your own meanings and twisting what I said to make yourself look better.

It's the talent level across the whole offensive line.

By adding two draft picks it was Ballard who completed the line.

When Manning was here the offensive line was set up to pass protect him along with the RB. (Addai)

Ballard set this line up for both passing and running. Big difference.

 

But Smith is Mewhort, so the difference in talent over several years would be just Nelson.  So yea, indirectly you're crediting Nelson alone for improved play relative to other years if you don't even consider scheme.

 

Pagano was the coach last year.  Granted, he didn't have Mewhort or Nelson so there was an upgrade in talent from just last year.  Banner was drafted with Philbin's guidance.   I think coaching change and scheme change has more to do with improved oline play it than the addition of Nelson, not that he hasn't contributed.

 

Also, and this is a big point IMO, because I value Ts over Gs.  The line has also improved once we've discovered that Smith can play T pretty well.  IIRC, somebody decided to start Mewhort there but gave up after only 2 games.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

But Smith is Mewhort, so the difference in talent over several years would be just Nelson.  So yea, indirectly you're crediting Nelson alone for improved play relative to other years if you don't even consider scheme.

 

Pagano was the coach last year.  Granted, he didn't have Mewhort or Nelson so there was an upgrade in talent from just last year.  Banner was drafted with Philbin's guidance.   I think coaching change has more to do with improved oline play it than the addition of Nelson, not that he hasn't contributed.

Our line last season didn't have the talent to put a running game together. I guess you are over looking that altogether to make your point.

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Our line last season didn't have the talent to put a running game together. I guess you are over looking that altogether to make your point.

I was ignoring last season because I thought you were wanting to compare to Grigson. 

 

As far as last year, Ballard did nothing to improve the oline.  He drafted a FS last year in round 1, drafted Banner, and signed no FAs to lead us into last season, and waived Blythe, if you recall.

 

Then he drafted Nelson and finally replaced injured Mewhort.

 

If you're looking strictly at players, Nelson is the only thing different from the Grigson years, so that would be the upgrade.  At least that's the way I see it if we don't consider scheme and coaching change.

[Jason_]

one thing that I think all of you are overlooking is the change in OL coach.  That is another variable as well.

[aaron11]

sure is easy to start an argument around here

[Myles]

42 minutes ago, DougDew said:

But Smith is Mewhort, so the difference in talent over several years would be just Nelson.  So yea, indirectly you're crediting Nelson alone for improved play relative to other years if you don't even consider scheme.

 

 

Nelson deserves much of the credit.   Ballard drafted the consensus best O-lineman  in the draft.  He has lived up to his billing.   Great at run and pass blocking.   He improves the play of other players on the line as well.   

The scheme helps too, but this scheme without Nelson wouldn't be as good.

[Cynjin]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Now quit putting your own meanings and twisting what I said to make yourself look better.

 

 

That's what he does when posting, only it doesn't make him look better.  It actually has the opposite effect. 

[DougDew]

22 minutes ago, Myles said:

Nelson deserves much of the credit.   Ballard drafted the consensus best O-lineman  in the draft.  He has lived up to his billing.   Great at run and pass blocking.   He improves the play of other players on the line as well.   

The scheme helps too, but this scheme without Nelson wouldn't be as good.

There is obviously improvement in oline play from last year ( a Ballard year) to this year, as well as the beginning of this year to now.  Lots of improvements in scheme and talent.  However, I think its too easy to simply look at the flashy pick of the #6 G.

 

Of course, because I'll always believe that T talent is more important than G talent,  I see the return of AC and the settling of Smith at RT being the main reason for the improved oline play from the beginning of the year until now, from a talent perspective.  Getting Clark, Haeg, Howard out of the T spots has been the difference, IMO.

[throwing BBZ]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

Actually the line did play OK without AC.   They were not what they are now, but they weren't what we had in previous years.   Nelson helps AC play better.  

I would say that an O-line needs a few weeks to gel too.  

 

   I would say the line was pass blocking ok early but the run blocking was poor.
 They were not creating seams at all like we are now. 
  It is special watching Nelson blasting a shoulder bump helping AC or Kelly gaining leverage on their man then so quickly pounce forward hitting and ceiling off his block.
    Greg Cossell was on Cowherd yesterday showing Steelers run blocking scheme.

 All of the lineman were quick and powerful enough to get on their man and get the angle to direct them away from the play as the guard pulled to clean out the hole.
 We have just started executing this because our interior three are all capable of running fast enough and powerful enough to execute this big time scheme. We ARE going to keep pounding the ball.   This IS Elite stuff. 

[throwing BBZ]

11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

There is obviously improvement in oline play from last year ( a Ballard year) to this year, as well as the beginning of this year to now.  Lots of improvements in scheme and talent.  However, I think its too easy to simply look at the flashy pick of the #6 G.

 

Of course, because I'll always believe that T talent is more important than G talent,  I see the return of AC and the settling of Smith at RT being the main reason for the improved oline play from the beginning of the year until now, from a talent perspective.  Getting Clark, Haeg, Howard out of the T spots has been the difference, IMO.

 

 And Slauson. Glowinski is showing more power and athleticism.

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 And Slauson. Glowinski is showing more power and athleticism.

Yes.  Moving Smith to T allowed us to elevate Glow.  At the beginning of the year, it seemed like we had a bunch of competition at G with no Ts at all.  Smith has really opened up the talent dam, IMO.

[chad72]

18 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

And Slauson. Glowinski is showing more power and athleticism.

 

Sometimes, you luck into the right OL combination. I remember the Baltimore Ravens shuffling their OL before their 2012 playoff run and for a few games, it was like a fortress with Flacco having all kinds of time to throw and thus the Joe Montana like run in the 2012 playoffs for Flacco. 

 

The Colts, out of necessity, put Braden Smith at RT, and stumbled into the right combination since then. Let us hope it lasts for the entire season.

[DougDew]

23 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

 

The Colts, out of necessity, put Braden Smith at RT, and stumbled into the right combination since then. Let us hope it lasts for the entire season.

That's probably right, except I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to Reich for seeing it.  I'm pretty sure Ballard said he saw Smith strictly as a G.

 

I also wish Pagano would have tried Mewhort at RT longer than 2 games.  I don't know what Grigson thought, but those were the meddling years, so who knows who was calling the shots.

 

I don't think Mewhort played any worse his first 2, and only 2, NFL games at RT than Smith did his first two games.  The difference is that Reich kept trying Smith there and now Smith is succeeding, maybe out of necessity but I'm assuming Reich saw the potential

[braveheartcolt]

Kelly is improving in leaps and bounds. It's not all about Nelson......

[Dustin]

Idk how people are factoring in his drafts into his evaluation. We gotta wait 3 years before we can judge a draft class right guys?

[Trueman]

I'm blatantly ripping this from reddit , but I found it interesting:

https://www.spotrac.com/research/nfl/grading-notable-2018-nfl-free-agents-by-team-808/#TEAMS

Guess who's number 1? Scroll to the bottom to find out.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

   I would say the line was pass blocking ok early but the run blocking was poor.
 They were not creating seams at all like we are now. 
  It is special watching Nelson blasting a shoulder bump helping AC or Kelly gaining leverage on their man then so quickly pounce forward hitting and ceiling off his block.
    Greg Cossell was on Cowherd yesterday showing Steelers run blocking scheme.

 All of the lineman were quick and powerful enough to get on their man and get the angle to direct them away from the play as the guard pulled to clean out the hole.
 We have just started executing this because our interior three are all capable of running fast enough and powerful enough to execute this big time scheme. We ARE going to keep pounding the ball.   This IS Elite stuff. 

Your explanation is spot on.  Certainly scheme helps the offense. But without the talent of the new lineup the running game wouldn't be what we have seen. Put that together and it took more than what Nelson can do. Ignoring all the front 5 is IMO not seeing the bigger picture.

[throwing BBZ]

 Silly to doubt that the plan wasn't to cross train Smith at both positions and see what he had.

 And in time i'm sure the line coach was giving Reich and Ballard the good news.                               

Ballard and his scout team also showed a sharp eye luring Glowinski our way.

Stumbling? I don't think so.

 

By Lance Zierlein

NFL Analyst

 

 Smith's athletic build, natural bend, and power make for a lethal combination that could allow him to play outside or inside in the NFL.

[Jason_]

3 hours ago, Trueman said:

I'm blatantly ripping this from reddit , but I found it interesting:

https://www.spotrac.com/research/nfl/grading-notable-2018-nfl-free-agents-by-team-808/#TEAMS

Guess who's number 1? Scroll to the bottom to find out.

 

Very cool article. Thanks for sharing

[hoosierhawk]

22 hours ago, DougDew said:

There is obviously improvement in oline play from last year ( a Ballard year) to this year, as well as the beginning of this year to now.  Lots of improvements in scheme and talent.  However, I think its too easy to simply look at the flashy pick of the #6 G.

 

Of course, because I'll always believe that T talent is more important than G talent,  I see the return of AC and the settling of Smith at RT being the main reason for the improved oline play from the beginning of the year until now, from a talent perspective.  Getting Clark, Haeg, Howard out of the T spots has been the difference, IMO.

Make sure you don't give Nelson credit. Guess he doesn't need you to do that. The knowledgeable football people around the league and on here are doing it.