Why Do People Doubt Peyton

[chrisfarley]

What I think alot of folks are missing is that he doesn't need to be who he was to be great. Ya follow me on that?

agree,,, if he is 70 percent thats like a Rothlisberger

80 percent is like steve young

90 percent is like Elway at 100 percent

but if he's 50 percent, then you get Trent Dilfer

[IndyTrav]

....It's Pollian not Polain....

What is it again?

Another quality post.

[MR. Blueblood]

Once again he has been cleared by his doctors to take hits and if the Colts org. would have allowed it he was cleared to play the last game or 2 but only in the red zone!!! You just refuse to acknowledge the facts. Irsay is unsure only because the cap situation because he said PM can stay a Colt if he wants to if they reconstruct his contract to be cap friendly!

The doctors clearing him for the fusion and taking hits didn't come until right before the Super Bowl, so how does that translate into him being cleared to play the last cpl games of the season in the red zone? He wasn't cleared to play, he WANTED to play. The Colts didn't let him because they were concerned more about his well being than he was. You talk about acknowledging the facts yet you don't tell them yourself. Show me a link or any evidence that Manning was medically cleared by any doctors before the last couple games of the season.

[mmcrazylikeafox]

The doctors clearing him for the fusion and taking hits didn't come until right before the Super Bowl, so how does that translate into him being cleared to play the last cpl games of the season in the red zone? He wasn't cleared to play, he WANTED to play. The Colts didn't let him because they were concerned more about his well being than he was. You talk about acknowledging the facts yet you don't tell them yourself. Show me a link or any evidence that Manning was medically cleared by any doctors before the last couple games of the season.

You are correct I did overlook the timing of his med clearance. I apologize that was my error.

[mmcrazylikeafox]

What is it again?

Another quality post.

Well this definitely improved the quality then I'm sure based on your opinion

[Happy2BeHere]

You want a quality post? Here it is...

<tick> <tock>....<tick>....<tock>....

[hawkeyes]

What has he done for the Colts lately?

[jedi.creech]

If I was Manning at this point I would walk.... I mean here is a situation that last year he was told KNOWING SURGERY WOULD BE NEEDED.... That I'm going to give you a contract that will lock you in to being a Colt for life.... Well one year later, and a fresh you overhyped Stud, all of a sudden we have cap issue??

If and I sure hope he doesn't but IF Manning does ever get bored, and comes see what fans say he's reading how at least most of this forum bored has just tossed everything to the side, and wants to move forward using Mr. Hype... I wish we had the fan base, the owner loyality that Denver had back with Elway...

I feel safe in saying that Manning feels pushed out... If he goes on to another team... Do you think he will have any ties left in him for Indy after football? Maybe I am not as "good hearted" as Manning, but if I was in his shoes... I'd erase my name to the town that ran me out of town after all I did.

[LightninMax]

Rebuilding doesn't mean starting over from scratch. Every year is rebuilding to some extent. The core of this team is good. Say what you want about due to last seasons record, but the fact remains, there are good veterans on this team and there are good young players. The linebackers and defensive line are good points to build on. Add some veteran help to the secondary and the defense could easily be expected to be a top 16 rated defense.

The offensive line made big progress last year. No reason not to expect further improvement. Running game was adequate last year. Receivers are the biggest question. It makes no sense to go after a replacement for Reggie. Resign him. The other FA WR's would cost as much and most are not as good. Besides we need a deep threat in addition to a route runner like Reggie. Get rid of the drops and Pierre could be that wideout. Collie, White, and Gonzo are solid when healthy. In any case, these are the areas to work with cap restrictions and resign/shift players to meet the needs. Keep Addai, running is decent but his blocking and pass catching are big pluses.

The Colts have the best situation at QB of probably about any team in history. If Manning can play, then that allows the Colts to march on. Drafting Luck solves the problem of what to do post Manning. Luck would only lengthen and strengthen his career given the opportunity to develop at a controlled pace.

As for the cap. Based on the numbers presented by those here, I don't see how the 28 mil could fit in, but then maybe those that actually deal with it know how to make it work. If money is not Manning's issue then a new contract would easily fit within cap requirements. Pre new CBA you wouldn't have been able to sign Luck and keep a starter, but with new CBA it is possible.

18-22% of cap for an experienced starter and a new franchise man is not unreasonable to find a way to make it work. Likewise, Freeney's contract needs revisited, or see what it would take to bring in Mario Williams and trade Dwight.

In any case, there's no reason the Colts have to accept mediocre seasons while Luck gets up to speed.

[Jaric]

If I was Manning at this point I would walk.... I mean here is a situation that last year he was told KNOWING SURGERY WOULD BE NEEDED.... That I'm going to give you a contract that will lock you in to being a Colt for life.... Well one year later, and a fresh you overhyped Stud, all of a sudden we have cap issue??

If and I sure hope he doesn't but IF Manning does ever get bored, and comes see what fans say he's reading how at least most of this forum bored has just tossed everything to the side, and wants to move forward using Mr. Hype... I wish we had the fan base, the owner loyality that Denver had back with Elway...

I feel safe in saying that Manning feels pushed out... If he goes on to another team... Do you think he will have any ties left in him for Indy after football? Maybe I am not as "good hearted" as Manning, but if I was in his shoes... I'd erase my name to the town that ran me out of town after all I did.

Get a grip

[MR. Blueblood]

If I was Manning at this point I would walk.... I mean here is a situation that last year he was told KNOWING SURGERY WOULD BE NEEDED.... That I'm going to give you a contract that will lock you in to being a Colt for life

At the time the contract was signed, neither side knew that the fusion was going to be necessary. Both sides thought Manning was going to be able to play at some point last season, and both sides didn't think that there would be any problems moving forward. Well guess what, the worst case scenario happened.

[oldunclemark]

Folks just like what's 'new'

People got tired of Michael Jordan winning all the time. They wnated the 'new Jordan'

Old is bad..New is good...

Folks would rather lose a year with a new, exciting player....Than gamble on the old guy...

Its human nature

[UndecidedFrog]

Folks just like what's 'new'

People got tired of Michael Jordan winning all the time. They wnated the 'new Jordan'

Old is bad..New is good...

Folks would rather lose a year with a new, exciting player....Than gamble on the old guy...

Its human nature

FYI, we already lost plenty, last season. If we had won just two more game last season, we wouldn't be talking about any new guy,

[oldunclemark]

FYI, we already lost plenty, last season. If we had won just two more game last season, we wouldn't be talking about any new guy,

Obviously....

..but you hear the talk about how we should never have a player again..who so internalized the offense that a replacement would have trouble..

..you hear about what Manning hasnt won in the playoffs..

...How 36 is SOOOOO old..(btw)

Tom Brady is 34 next season...Drew Brees is 33..

...Meanwhile what has Andrew Luck ever failed at, pro-wise? Nothing. He's never lost a big NFL game.

Never been injured seriously

Never thrown a big interception.......Clean slate

I understand wanting new over old... I just want not to throw out the old guy until we're sure about the new man.

[FireJimCaldwell]

FYI, we already lost plenty, last season. If we had won just two more game last season, we wouldn't be talking about any new guy,

Sure we would. We would just be the ones paying the kings ransom to St. Louis instead of the ones that could get an even bigger ransom from the teams.

We'd still be going after Luck at 4-12, or 6-10 in my opinion. Irsay looks at him like teenage girls look at Beiber.

[UndecidedFrog]

Obviously....

..but you hear the talk about how we should never have a player again..who so internalized the offense that a replacement would have trouble..

..you hear about what Manning hasnt won in the playoffs..

...How 36 is SOOOOO old..(btw)

Tom Brady is 34 next season...Drew Brees is 33..

...Meanwhile what has Andrew Luck ever failed at, pro-wise? Nothing. He's never lost a big NFL game.

Never been injured seriously

Never thrown a big interception.......Clean slate

I understand wanting new over old... I just want not to throw out the old guy until we're sure about the new man.

In professional football, unless you are a K or a P, you are old if you are on the other side of 35.

I don't think we want to repeat a player who internalizes the offense such that he becomes irreplaceable. I think we want to have an offense that is still operable with the next guy stepping up if QB1 goes down. We don't want to lose games because of injury to one player, do we?

[UndecidedFrog]

Sure we would. We would just be the ones paying the kings ransom to St. Louis instead of the ones that could get an even bigger ransom from the teams.

We'd still be going after Luck at 4-12, or 6-10 in my opinion. Irsay looks at him like teenage girls look at Beiber.

Has Irsay gone gaga like this before on another player, that we should suspect that the Beiber syndrome is what is operating here?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Has Irsay gone gaga like this before on another player, that we should suspect that the Beiber syndrome is what is operating here?

I never bought Ryan Leaf as a valid option, but outside of those 2, I would say no.

[oldunclemark]

In professional football, unless you are a K or a P, you are old if you are on the other side of 35.

I don't think we want to repeat a player who internalizes the offense such that he becomes irreplaceable. I think we want to have an offense that is still operable with the next guy stepping up if QB1 goes down. We don't want to lose games because of injury to one player, do we?

Interesting.... you say that..

..because Manning's grasp of the offenses and his unsaid link to his receivers is what helped us win..

All QBs try to master the offense..manning just had a master-lock on it

But in answer to tour question....

....No...I dont want to be i that situation again.. I didnt see the danger of it at the time.

I did not see a SERIOUS injury to Manning coming...

[UndecidedFrog]

Interesting.... you say that..

..because Manning's grasp of the offenses and his unsaid link to his receivers is what helped us win..

All QBs try to master the offense..manning just had a master-lock on it

But in answer to tour question....

....No...I dont want to be i that situation again.. I didnt see the danger of it at the time.

I did not see a SERIOUS injury to Manning coming...

TY for your honest answer.

This actually goes back to making sure QB2 gets enough reps with the offense to help prepare him should he be needed.

The HC, and the OC and the QB coach should make sure that QB1 does not "hog" all the reps in practice.

[04DarkShadowGT]

I think its more than just a doubt about his health, its the penalties we would face if he isnt healthy and even if its 50/50 that may be too risky. To me its a three fold thing.

1 - Clearly the healthy risk is one of them. Is he going to be healthy enough to play.

2 - The risk to the team is HUGE if he is paid his bonus and then cant play. You are effectively setting the franchise back at least two more years because he would count either nearly 40 million on the cap next year if he retires before June 1 or nearly 20 million the next two years if its after June 1.

Are you willing to risk that large of a percentage of your cap to a player that may be 50/50 he will be back 100% to what he was before?

3 - I am not sure this team is good enough to do more than compete for a wild card spot if Peyton is QB. We arent as talented on either side of the ball as Houston when they are healthy, we arent winning the division imo. Is it worth it to win 8-10 games for 2-3 more years and win nothing of significance just to have Peyton finish here? Do we want to push off the rebuilding efforts for 2-3 more years? Would Manning even want to be here is a better question?

The mark of a well run franchise is they are willing to get rid of players a year or two early than a year or two late. Just look at the Steelers with Hines Ward or the Patriots with Seymour among others. They could still probably play, but it was time to go in a different direction.

If Manning truly wants to be here, he would either restructure his deal or sign another contract that can protect the Colts if he cannot come back. He was just given $26 million for a year of nothing, imo he should be more flexible and help the team if he wants to come back. This is NOT a one way deal imo. Irsay has been very good to Manning and paid him a lot of $$.

Dont kid ourselves if Brady was coming off major surgery and had questionable healthy, the Patriots are drafting another QB and moving on. It is a TEAM, not just one player. You do what you can to make your team better short term AND long term.

[LUVTHESHOE]

There is evidence that peyton was improving since his surgery. So whats the reason to doubt he will be our starter next year??

"Running back Joseph Addai, who caught passes from Manning in late December, and former team vice chairman Bill Polian, who watched the same workout, have both said Manning threw with good velocity from 25 to 30 yards." That was around New Year's Eve.

Another report from BP. The same session as above

"He was able to stand at the left hash mark and throw it to the right sideline, but he didn't get much beyond 25 to 28 yards," he said. "He was absolutely on the money and threw with good velocity. I was impressed with that workout and he clearly, clearly had come a long way since September." -BP

Chris Mortensen said Peyton improved alot in January and February.

http://espn.go.com/e...play?id=7581097 link to interview.

There is 6 months to the start of the regular season who knows what will happen during that time. In early August he amitted that he was behind in rehab. Now he is saying that everything has been on schedule and the docs tell him good information on his condition.

So why doubt him when there is information of his rehah progress???

I don't know if this is true or not but after his injury there has been a rumor saying has was around 85% after the injury in 2006.

Thoughts????

I don't really believe anybody really doubts his desire. Most people just realize he is almost 36 years old and coming off 4 surgeries. It is time for a serious back up plan. Almost 36 without the surgeries is getting old by nfl standards. Wow I hope I was the first to think of this sort of reply.I know we should find that 7th round gem that is dying to sit for 4 years. P.s. I do hope PM is a colt, but understand that is not what he or Irsay is thinking, in my opinion.

[FireJimCaldwell]

TY for your honest answer.

This actually goes back to making sure QB2 gets enough reps with the offense to help prepare him should he be needed.

The HC, and the OC and the QB coach should make sure that QB1 does not "hog" all the reps in practice.

That is part of the problem.

The other part is the scheme. A QB friendly system would be nice like the WCO but that isn't happening, so it will be closer to what we were, than some dramatic change.

[oldunclemark]

I think its more than just a doubt about his health, its the penalties we would face if he isnt healthy and even if its 50/50 that may be too risky. To me its a three fold thing.

1 - Clearly the healthy risk is one of them. Is he going to be healthy enough to play.

2 - The risk to the team is HUGE if he is paid his bonus and then cant play. You are effectively setting the franchise back at least two more years because he would count either nearly 40 million on the cap next year if he retires before June 1 or nearly 20 million the next two years if its after June 1.

Are you willing to risk that large of a percentage of your cap to a player that may be 50/50 he will be back 100% to what he was before?

3 - I am not sure this team is good enough to do more than compete for a wild card spot if Peyton is QB. We arent as talented on either side of the ball as Houston when they are healthy, we arent winning the division imo. Is it worth it to win 8-10 games for 2-3 more years and win nothing of significance just to have Peyton finish here? Do we want to push off the rebuilding efforts for 2-3 more years? Would Manning even want to be here is a better question?

The mark of a well run franchise is they are willing to get rid of players a year or two early than a year or two late. Just look at the Steelers with Hines Ward or the Patriots with Seymour among others. They could still probably play, but it was time to go in a different direction.

If Manning truly wants to be here, he would either restructure his deal or sign another contract that can protect the Colts if he cannot come back. He was just given $26 million for a year of nothing, imo he should be more flexible and help the team if he wants to come back. This is NOT a one way deal imo. Irsay has been very good to Manning and paid him a lot of $$.

Dont kid ourselves if Brady was coming off major surgery and had questionable healthy, the Patriots are drafting another QB and moving on. It is a TEAM, not just one player. You do what you can to make your team better short term AND long term.

In the short term..we're better with Manning..most teams would be...

WE just disagree. I think its a safe bet we make the playoffs with Peyton Manning...in 2012

we would have in 2011..and anybody who makes the has more than a long shot to win the Super Bowl....

The last 2 years have proven that...

In the long term.....Luck appears to be the man....he is impressive...Experts love him.

So...The BEST thing to do you the TEAM....is to go Pey-Luck ..give Manning an incentive deal for a year or two and sign them both.

Its not a matter of what's best for Manning or Luck....

Its what's best for the team...... you cant argue that having both of them leaves us vulnerable at the QB position.

and rebuilding can go on around them...or with them

[bavanlan]

There is evidence that peyton was improving since his surgery. So whats the reason to doubt he will be our starter next year??

Because we had no reason to doubt he'd be our starter in 2011 this time last year?

[Fx Stryker]

Peyton is probably the one player with the most doubters in his career. Although when you think the people who would be the most supportive of him doubt him also.

[Warhorse]

Get a grip

The acronym is G.A.G. :hmm:

[coltsblue1844]

Has Irsay gone gaga like this before on another player, that we should suspect that the Beiber syndrome is what is operating here?

yeah, actually... Jeff George

[coltsblue1844]

That is part of the problem.

The other part is the scheme. A QB friendly system would be nice like the WCO but that isn't happening, so it will be closer to what we were, than some dramatic change.

doesnt matter what scheme we had in place, Painter wouldve still been Painter, unfortunately

[FireJimCaldwell]

doesnt matter what scheme we had in place, Painter wouldve still been Painter, unfortunately

Yes Painter was horrible, but he would have still stood a much better chance in a QB friendly system. Collins would have performed better early on as well.

[Malakai432]

Wow this thread about as messy as my room would be after being hit by a tornado. Interesting but messy.

[04DarkShadowGT]

agree,,, if he is 70 percent thats like a Rothlisberger

80 percent is like steve young

90 percent is like Elway at 100 percent

but if he's 50 percent, then you get Trent Dilfer

That is just ridiculous.

[chrisfarley]

That is just ridiculous.

lighten up, let's bring a bit of levity into the mix.

[Portage Coltfans]

There is evidence that peyton was improving since his surgery. So whats the reason to doubt he will be our starter next year??

"Running back Joseph Addai, who caught passes from Manning in late December, and former team vice chairman Bill Polian, who watched the same workout, have both said Manning threw with good velocity from 25 to 30 yards." That was around New Year's Eve.

Another report from BP. The same session as above

"He was able to stand at the left hash mark and throw it to the right sideline, but he didn't get much beyond 25 to 28 yards," he said. "He was absolutely on the money and threw with good velocity. I was impressed with that workout and he clearly, clearly had come a long way since September." -BP

Chris Mortensen said Peyton improved alot in January and February.

http://espn.go.com/e...play?id=7581097 link to interview.

There is 6 months to the start of the regular season who knows what will happen during that time. In early August he amitted that he was behind in rehab. Now he is saying that everything has been on schedule and the docs tell him good information on his condition.

So why doubt him when there is information of his rehah progress???

I don't know if this is true or not but after his injury there has been a rumor saying has was around 85% after the injury in 2006.

Thoughts????

if not already,

you will have somone tell you all about QB's performace over the Age of 35 and blah blah blah

what the "someone" will not put into account is how QB's are protected now like never before in the history of the NFL, and how this can truely translate to QB's playing a a high level longer. It will not take into count swaggor, desire, and competative nature. It will not take into account hours and hours and hours of preparation by the best QB in the league over the last decade.

Please, ignore any studies done on QB's playing prior to Manning/brady era. This isn't the same timeframe, its not apples to apples.

P.S. Apples to apples is a fun party game

but try Say Anything, it is soo much fun

[UndecidedFrog]

if not already,

you will have a amphibian tell you all about QB's performace over the Age of 35 and blah blah blah

what the amphibian will not put into account is how QB's are protected now like never before in the history of the NFL, and how this can truely translate to QB's playing a a high level longer. It will not take into count swaggor, desire, and competative nature. It will not take into account hours and hours and hours of preparation by the best QB in the league over the last decade.

Please, ignore any studies done on QB's playing prior to Manning/brady era. This isn't the same timeframe, its not apples to apples.

P.S. Apples to apples is a fun party game

but try Say Anything, it is soo much fun

The amphibian will also point out that if QBs are so well protected now like never before, how can anyone account for the injury sustained by PM that knocked him out for an entire season? The amphibian tends to inject some reality to the fairy dreams that many have that after sustaining such an injury which led to nerve damage in general, and damage to the nerve that innervates the triceps of the throwing arm in particular, that everything will heal up just fine.

I applaud the amphibian who show studies that support the notion that QBs, even elite QBs in the NFL do not play forever, and that their performance, on average, begins to decline around the age of 30-31, and that most elite QBs retire or should have retired at the age of 35.

[Portage Coltfans]

The amphibian will also point out that if QBs are so well protected now like never before, how can anyone account for the injury sustained by PM that knocked him out for an entire season? The amphibian tends to inject some reality to the fairy dreams that many have that after sustaining such an injury which led to nerve damage in general, and damage to the nerve that innervates the triceps of the throwing arm in particular, that everything will heal up just fine.

I applaud the amphibian who show studies that support the notion that QBs, even elite QBs in the NFL do not play forever, and that their performance, on average, begins to decline around the age of 30-31, and that most elite QBs retire or should have retired at the age of 35.

they still didn't take into account many parts from my original post, only physical parts. I applaud that study as well, it was very interesting and indeed a good topic.

would you be upset if the colts decided to trade the pick and take a chance on Peyton? I wouldn't, and I woudn't 4 years from now either.

[UndecidedFrog]

would you be upset if the colts decided to trade the pick and take a chance on Peyton? I wouldn't, and I woudn't 4 years from now either.

I would not be upset if the Colts decided to take a chance on PM and trade the overall #1 pick. I would think it a foolish thing to do, to sacrifice the future of the team on an aging QB that has not played for a season and is rehabbing off multiple neck surgeries with uncertain arm strength due to nerve regeneration issues.

However, I will still root for the team to succeed. I have already gone on record saying that I would root for this team even if they started Painter again.

[Malakai432]

what the "someone" will not put into account is how QB's are protected now like never before in the history of the NFL, and how this can truely translate to QB's playing a a high level longer.

I'm not sure if that theory applies well to the Colts OL as of late because we see any QB not named Manning was oblitreated. Fortunately Manning was great enough the previous year to avoid catastrophe with an unbelievable quick release and great awareness to get down before he was sacked. We saw what happened to Collins. Colt McCoy however was sacked 32 times and concussed. Ben was mangled, Cutler, Cassel, Manning, and the list goes on and on. I personally think if these OLs are paving the way for QBs to last longer than ever, they aren't doing that great of a job considering last year I have never seen as many QBs injured.

[Portage Coltfans]

I'm not sure if that theory applies well to the Colts OL as of late because we see any QB not named Manning was oblitreated. Fortunately Manning was great enough the previous year to avoid catastrophe with an unbelievable quick release and great awareness to get down before he was sacked. We saw what happened to Collins. Colt McCoy however was sacked 32 times and concussed. Ben was mangled, Cutler, Cassel, Manning, and the list goes on and on. I personally think if these OLs are paving the way for QBs to last longer than ever, they aren't doing that great of a job considering last year I have never seen as many QBs injured.

I think everyone of those QB's you mentioned, save Manning, are QB's known for extending plays or saving plays which causes them to get injured. I know Culter was injured tackling an interception. I can't remember cassel or ben.

you are def right that Manning/brady's ability to make a quick decision is probably what separates them from the others you mentioned.

since you mentioned the OL, I am a huge believer of OL quality. You could argue that is almost as important as QB itself.

[Malakai432]

since you mentioned the OL, I am a huge believer of OL quality. You could argue that is almost as important as QB itself.

Indeed, I agree it's highly critical to have a quality OL.