Luck Seeking Treatment for Shoulder in Europe

[Yoshinator]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

What you're saying is: We don't know. We have no idea

What I'm saying is, if no major media outlet didn't report on Luck visiting Dr. James Andrews, then it didn't happen. Players less important than Luck get reported on visiting him all the time, and Luck and the Colts are under extreme scrutiny right now.

[Smoke317]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

we all sat here during games and the No.1 comment about Andrew in his first 2 or 3 years was the same.....

REMEMBER??

 

"I'm realy uncomfortable with the amount of times he's getting hit"  

We all said it again and again.

"He keeps getting up but I'm worried about the way he's getting hit"

"He cant keep getting hit like that"

 

Remember?

Yeah kid took a pounding. One of the toughest players I’ve EVER seen. Maybe too tough for his own good. Luck had that toughness and ability to stand tall in the face of fire and make big boy throws. In that way, he was better than Manning. Where he comes up shorter than Peyton, is in his pre snap diagnosis of the defense. That is the one area that I believe has held him back. 

 

I don’t know if it’s all scheme or Luck does check out of plays but unfortunately he just checks into bad plays but I’d like to see him and our offense in general check to more hots and swing passes to the backs when we see teams blitzing us. Rather than looking to beat the blitz with deep routes. Our OLine more often than not can’t protect that long. Not even in max protect. 

 

I think if Luck ends up never being the same, we’re gonna look back and realize a combination of our desire to run an Air Coryell offense and Luck’s willingness to hang in the pocket till the last minute will be the cause of it all.  We needed to start Luck in a quicker rhythm offense and broken that holding onto the ball tendency early. Peyton similarly started in a deep strike offense but Peyton relied more on timing and anticipation and had no problems throwing interceptions early in his career rather than taking those career changing hits if he didn’t have to. 

 

We treated Luck like he was Superman and would keep getting up...  Blame it on the OLine, the scheme, or even Luck himself. Regardless, I feel like we failed Luck. It was the Colts job to protect him, even from himself if need be and I feel like our organization came up short in that regard. I’m really beginning to get serious doubts about Jim Irsay.  We are “this” close to being laughing stocks again. And if Luck’s career is seriously jeopardized, it’ll take us a while to shake the negative image we would get from the media. Locally and Nationally. 

[crazycolt1]

39 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Yeah kid took a pounding. One of the toughest players I’ve EVER seen. Maybe too tough for his own good. Luck had that toughness and ability to stand tall in the face of fire and make big boy throws. In that way, he was better than Manning. Where he comes up shorter than Peyton, is in his pre snap diagnosis of the defense. That is the one area that I believe has held him back. 

 

I don’t know if it’s all scheme or Luck does check out of plays but unfortunately he just checks into bad plays but I’d like to see him and our offense in general check to more hots and swing passes to the backs when we see teams blitzing us. Rather than looking to beat the blitz with deep routes. Our OLine more often than not can’t protect that long. Not even in max protect. 

 

I think if Luck ends up never being the same, we’re gonna look back and realize a combination of our desire to run an Air Coryell offense and Luck’s willingness to hang in the pocket till the last minute will be the cause of it all.  We needed to start Luck in a quicker rhythm offense and broken that holding onto the ball tendency early. Peyton similarly started in a deep strike offense but Peyton relied more on timing and anticipation and had no problems throwing interceptions early in his career rather than taking those career changing hits if he didn’t have to. 

 

We treated Luck like he was Superman and would keep getting up...  Blame it on the OLine, the scheme, or even Luck himself. Regardless, I feel like we failed Luck. It was the Colts job to protect him, even from himself if need be and I feel like our organization came up short in that regard. I’m really beginning to get serious doubts about Jim Irsay.  We are “this” close to being laughing stocks again. And if Luck’s career is seriously jeopardized, it’ll take us a while to shake the negative image we would get from the media. Locally and Nationally. 

Irsay??  Irsay hires the people to do their job. If they don't how do you blame Irsay?  It's easy to say fire someone but then they have to be replaced. Irsay can't contact anyone under contract. If he did it would be tampering and the Colts would get fined and a loss of draft picks.

As far as being a laughing stock that is your assumption. The Colts have been the kicking stone for the media and it goes deeper than what is going on this year. The media is using the Colts to get their hits and it started right after deflate-gate. "We" blew the whistle on their golden boy. ESPN has had a negative thing for Irsay even before deflate-gate. That started with Wilbon disliking Jim to the point he compared him to his father.

Personally I couldn't care less about what the media hounds have to say. Why should you?

[Smoke317]

29 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Irsay??  Irsay hires the people to do their job. If they don't how do you blame Irsay?  It's easy to say fire someone but then they have to be replaced. Irsay can't contact anyone under contract. If he did it would be tampering and the Colts would get fined and a loss of draft picks.

As far as being a laughing stock that is your assumption. The Colts have been the kicking stone for the media and it goes deeper than what is going on this year. The media is using the Colts to get their hits and it started right after deflate-gate. "We" blew the whistle on their golden boy. ESPN has had a negative thing for Irsay even before deflate-gate. That started with Wilbon disliking Jim to the point he compared him to his father.

Personally I couldn't care less about what the media hounds have to say. Why should you?

I blame Irsay for hiring Chuck in the first place. His resume didn’t scream defensive mastermind to me. I could have coached Lewis, Reed, Suggs, & Ngata...  The fact they GOT BETTER THE YEAR AFTER HE LEFT and went and won the Super Bowl was telling...

 

As far as the media, yes they have a bone to pick with us for Deflate Gate but Polian, Dungy, and Peyton did a good job of getting us to a level of respectability. They took their jabs at Peyton (couldn’t win in the playoffs) but they had to respect us nonetheless because we were consistently great. I don’t want to see us fall back into irrelevancy.  I don’t like seeing us being labeled as an “easy win”. 

 

I’m a superstitious guy. So I’m always looking for trends (to read into... lol). Like for example, our record when we had training camp in Anderson was abysmal as compared to Terre Haute (No knock on Anderson). So why in the world would Irsay return there?  Our organization has been in shambles since...  We resemble more of 80-90’s Colts as opposed to Peyton & early Luck’s Colts. Also, never won a Super Bowl in blue jerseys. Yet we chose to wear blue vs the Saints... And we have still never won in blue jerseys...   Of course some of these things are jokes, but then again maybe not...    

 

I’d rather have Irsay think crazy like me and make those kind of superstitious decisions rather than tweeting some of the crazy things he does. Chuck and Grigson were mistakes and compounded it by hanging on to them too long. We need the right coaches and GM in here. I’ll give Irsay credit for Ballard. He seems to have a solid gameplan and approach. Now I’m praying that Irsay gets out of the way and let’s him do his job... We need Irsay to be more Kraft & less Jerry Jones and Al Davis. 

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I blame Irsay for hiring Chuck in the first place. His resume didn’t scream defensive mastermind to me. I could have coached Lewis, Reed, Suggs, & Ngata...  The fact they GOT BETTER THE YEAR AFTER HE LEFT and went and won the Super Bowl was telling...

 

As far as the media, yes they have a bone to pick with us for Deflate Gate but Polian, Dungy, and Peyton did a good job of getting us to a level of respectability. They took their jabs at Peyton (couldn’t win in the playoffs) but they had to respect us nonetheless because we were consistently great. I don’t want to see us fall back into irrelevancy.  I don’t like seeing us being labeled as an “easy win”. 

 

I’m a superstitious guy. So I’m always looking for trends (to read into... lol). Like for example, our record when we had training camp in Anderson was abysmal as compared to Terre Haute (No knock on Anderson). So why in the world would Irsay return there?  Our organization has been in shambles since...  We resemble more of 80-90’s Colts as opposed to Peyton & early Luck’s Colts. Also, never won a Super Bowl in blue jerseys. Yet we chose to wear blue vs the Saints... And of cours we have still never won in blue jerseys...   Of course some of these things are jokes, but then again maybe not...    

 

I’d rather have Irsay think crazy like me and make those kind of superstitious decisions rather than tweeting some of the crazy things he does. Chuck and Grigson were mistakes and compounded it by hanging on to them too long. We need the right coaches and GM in here. I’ll give Irsay credit for Ballard. He seems to have a solid gameplan and approach. Now I’m praying that Irsay gets out of the way and let’s him do his job... We need Irsay to be more Kraft & less Jerry Jones and Al Davis. 

Where do you even come up with this Irsay and his meddling with the GM, head coach or anyone else? He has been out of the way every since Polian was here.

As far as Irsay being more like Kraft, no thank you. Kraft has been the most fined owner in league history and for good reasons.

IMO you over think this stuff way too much.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

I blame Irsay for hiring Chuck in the first place. His resume didn’t scream defensive mastermind to me. I could have coached Lewis, Reed, Suggs, & Ngata...  The fact they GOT BETTER THE YEAR AFTER HE LEFT and went and won the Super Bowl was telling...

 

As far as the media, yes they have a bone to pick with us for Deflate Gate but Polian, Dungy, and Peyton did a good job of getting us to a level of respectability. They took their jabs at Peyton (couldn’t win in the playoffs) but they had to respect us nonetheless because we were consistently great. I don’t want to see us fall back into irrelevancy.  I don’t like seeing us being labeled as an “easy win”. 

 

I’m a superstitious guy. So I’m always looking for trends (to read into... lol). Like for example, our record when we had training camp in Anderson was abysmal as compared to Terre Haute (No knock on Anderson). So why in the world would Irsay return there?  Our organization has been in shambles since...  We resemble more of 80-90’s Colts as opposed to Peyton & early Luck’s Colts. Also, never won a Super Bowl in blue jerseys. Yet we chose to wear blue vs the Saints... And we have still never won in blue jerseys...   Of course some of these things are jokes, but then again maybe not...    

 

I’d rather have Irsay think crazy like me and make those kind of superstitious decisions rather than tweeting some of the crazy things he does. Chuck and Grigson were mistakes and compounded it by hanging on to them too long. We need the right coaches and GM in here. I’ll give Irsay credit for Ballard. He seems to have a solid gameplan and approach. Now I’m praying that Irsay gets out of the way and let’s him do his job... We need Irsay to be more Kraft & less Jerry Jones and Al Davis. 

 

The fact the Ravens got better had to do with their offense getting better, nit their defense.

 

The Ravens were on their way to missing the post season when Harbaugh fired their OC, Cam Cameron, late in the season, around week 13 or so.

 

And they replaced him with Jim Caldwell, who Colts fans will never forgive.   Well, Caldwell did a madtetful jib, and Flacco got hot in the stretch and playoffs and Baltimore won the SB.    That earned Flacvo his giant contract at the time.

 

So Pagano leaving Baltimore had nothing to do with the Ravens success.    

 

You're not alone, but I have no idea why the Pagano haters will go to their graves insisting he never did anything good in his coaching life.     But around here, many do...

 

[a06cc]

5 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

The good news is: This isn't a knee or foot injury..  His body was jacked up in other places than his shoulder..

I'm getting my mind ready for the news that their may be another 'clean-up' surgery for Andrew.

That's almost always what a 'second opinion' (I know those werent the words used) sounds like to me.

 

But, if its a consolation, he wont have  1 1/2 year of hits on him that he will have skipped

....

I’ve had that feeling that he might need a second surgery as well. You right in saying this isn’t a knee or foot. Kobe’s knee was pretty much bone on bone with no cartilage left. However the shoulder is a lot different. From the beginning I was always under the assumption that it was a particle tear. He may’ve full torn it when amping up his reps. Again you never want to hear second surgery for labrum. However I’m going to remain optimistic. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

I thought someone stated that Luck went back to his surgeon from Stanford or something. I don’t know the validity of it though. Might have been someone pretty trustworthy like NCF, but don’t quote me on that. I don’t want to put false claims on him. 

 

I think it was Superman who said Luck saw a Stanford doctor,  but it wasn't me.

 

I believe Luck had seen Andrews since the surgery,  but I don't think Andrews was the original surgeon.

 

 

 

[a06cc]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The fact the Ravens got better had to do with their offense getting better, nit their defense.

 

The Ravens were on their way to missing the post season when Harbaugh fired their OC, Cam Cameron, late in the season, around week 13 or so.

 

And they replaced him with Jim Caldwell, who Colts fans will never forgive.   Well, Caldwell did a madtetful jib, and Flacco got hot in the stretch and playoffs and Baltimore won the SB.    That earned Flacvo his giant contract at the time.

 

So Pagano leaving Baltimore had nothing to do with the Ravens success.    

 

You're not alone, but I have no idea why the Pagano haters will go to their graves insisting he never did anything good in his coaching life.     But around here, many do...

 

Your absolutely correct about Pagano. The more and more I go back and rewatch the games. It gives me the impression that he may be given another chance next season. People also forget while Grigson was here that Chuck had no control of the roster in terms of who starts. This season he starting QB got injured. I will never put the AL injury on him. It was Grigson who failed this team. Ballard is doing an excellent job rebuilding the roster and also find quality players for depth. 

[a06cc]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think it was Superman who said Luck saw a Stanford doctor,  but it wasn't me.

 

I believe Luck had seen Andrews since the surgery,  but I don't think Andrews was the original surgeon.

 

 

 

NFL’s Ian Rapport confirms Superman’s statements about Luck.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Same. Russell Wilson, Carson Wentz, and DeShaun Watson all have arguments for being as good as Luck or better and they were drafted the same year or after Luck. There's usually one QB that's around Luck's level in every draft now. Peyton was a generational talent. Luck is usually what the top 1 or 2 QBs in each draft have a chance to be. Luck is more like a top yearly talent rather than a generational talent.

 

I appreciate that this is a fans website and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but let's be clear....   this is YOUR opinion and not that of NFL people...

 

This is a disappointed fans point of view, not the view of people who are in the personnel business...

 

I completely disagree with this,  but you're entitled to you views...    I just don't want anyone thinking of this as the new conventional wisdom,  because it's not..  

 

 

 

 

[Roger]

4 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Its easy to knock a guy when he isn't playing. Fans psychologically blame injury on the player ("If he was truly great, he wouldnt be hurt so much. The great ones aren't always hurt!!!!) and diminish what he accomplished. 

 

Anybody who doesn't think Luck is a Top-5 QB have forgotten what he did the first 3 years when he was 100%

Look up the definition of "is" versus "was".

[oldunclemark]

6 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

What I'm saying is, if no major media outlet didn't report on Luck visiting Dr. James Andrews, then it didn't happen. Players less important than Luck get reported on visiting him all the time, and Luck and the Colts are under extreme scrutiny right now.

Media doesnt know things people don't want them to know.

The Colts aren't and have never been under 'extreme scrutiny'

[oldunclemark]

1 hour ago, Roger said:

Look up the definition of "is" versus "was".

Look up the defintion of "when he was 100%"

 

again..Mike Glennon is a better QB than Luck right now..

In this discussion, we're only talking about when he was healthy. Stay with us here.

 

 

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Look up the defintion of "when he was 100%"

 

again..Mike Glennon is a better QB than Luck right now..

In this discussion, we're only talking about when he was healthy. Stay with us here.

 

 

The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league. Unless you are retired and have created a legacy for yourself, then that will be hung over your head the longer you miss time. Luck has missed a little over a year in playing time. He's really only had one great year in 2014. That was the only year he was top 5. If he's truly top 5, then he'll return to that form assuming he is 100% at the beginning of next season. If not, then he has been passed by the new wave of QB's. For our sake, lets hope he is fully recovered and he reverts back to old form. Until then though, this is a "what have you done for me lately" league, and we can't assume that Luck would of beaten the Steelers or Pats even if he was healthy. Now we have to contend with DeShaun Watson starting next year as well in the division.

[Roger]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

Look up the defintion of "when he was 100%"

 

again..Mike Glennon is a better QB than Luck right now..

In this discussion, we're only talking about when he was healthy. Stay with us here.

 

 

His current value cannot be based solely on his good, pre-injury performance.  He was a top 10 QB. He is not a top 10 QB.  A team could weigh the evidence and decide to bet that he will return to his pre-injury form.  Or they could pass.

[ColtsBlueFL]

8 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

   I do not think there is any such thing as a career-ending shoulder injury for a guy in his 20s.  

 

 

I posted about a recent study a couple of months ago that reported 95% of overhead athletes that had surgery similar to Lucks returned to sports. (note: that is not 100%....   )

 

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think it was Superman who said Luck saw a Stanford doctor,  but it wasn't me.

 

I believe Luck had seen Andrews since the surgery,  but I don't think Andrews was the original surgeon.

 

 

It was me.  I reported Dr. Safran did the surgery.  Luck has seen multiple specialists since. (which more than likely includes Dr. Andrews, Dr. Safran, and more...)

 

Dr. Marc Safran (Stanford Sports Medicine Team Physician), is the associate chief of sports medicine, fellowship director of sports medicine, and professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at Stanford University. He is a respected and sought out orthopedic surgeon in his own right (though I believe his notable specialty is the hip). I can see Luck having a close relationship to him from his college days and entrusted the procedure to him.

 

With respect to Drew Brees surgery, I believe Dr. Andrews was quoted to have told Brees that had he performed that operation another 100 times, he could not have done a better job, and that is was now all up to Brees to rehab like he never had before to get his shoulder stronger than even before the surgery was even needed to be successful.  Drew did it and more. I heard Andrew did go to Dr. Andrews, and quite likely others (as mentioned above) since the surgery.  On that note, it is reported Luck has also gone to Kevin Wilk for rehab.  Wilk is respected as one of (if not the) top Physical Therapists in sports medicine.  Luck gets close, then gets sore again.  Reboot, repeat same same loop all over again... and again... and again.  Thus he now goes to Europe.

There is no question Dr. Andrews is a tip top orthopod, though he is not alone.  I'll point out a just few more right here (people can look them up if they wish) - Dr. Neal ElAttrache, Dr. David Altchek, Dr. Daniel Buss, Dr. Daniel Cooper, Dr. Russel Warren, and Dr. Lewis Yocum just to name a few (plus many baseball team physicians, like Cincy's Dr. Tim Kremchek, etc).  

 

Dr. Safran is fully qualified to have done the surgery he did on Luck, and it is now leaked that Luck having played on the damaged shoulder in 2016 likely caused extra injury that is now causing setbacks, not necessarily the labrum repair itself.  If so, (or in any event, IMHO) maybe a quick look inside with a scope will provide insight in how to proceed. MRI's are great diagnostic tools, but not totally infallible. To me, any delay in getting a look in and making course direction as necessary puts 2018 in more and more doubt.  I hope I'm wrong in that even more time, more rest, more rehab, and unorthodox (at least to U.S. practice) European treatments do the trick.  I'm just not convinced as yet, though (IE: Ryan Tannehill story).

[oldunclemark]

          95% is pretty high.....

..and the other 5% may not have been in their 20s..

...and their injuries may not have come from football.

..and it may have been 10-20-30 years ago

 

Just me but I have never heard of a football quarterback (Not a baseball pitcher) in his 20s who never cam back after a shoulder injury.

 

Has anyone?

 

 

Edited November 12, 2017 by oldunclemark

[#12.]

9 hours ago, CF4L said:

 

 

Agree with a lot of this except I don't think Luck was a generational talent. People throw that around a little too loosely.

 

 

I do - possibly the most NFL ready/clutch QB I've ever seen come out of college.  Had he been drafted by Seattle, he might have 3 rings by now.

 

If anything, people do not fully appreciate how bad the teams he played on were. Make no mistake - Millen-esque rosters.  Outside of Manning, who could have won with those teams?  Only a generational-type talent, especially early in his career could have won with what Luck had surrounding him.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

11 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

          95% is pretty high.....

..and the other 5% may not have been in their 20s..

...and their injuries may not have come from football.

..and it may have been 10-20-30 years ago

 

Just me but I have never heard of a football quarterback (Not a baseball pitcher) in his 20s who never cam back after a shoulder injury.

 

Has anyone?

 

 

 

Jim Miller...

 

https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2003/01/09/Miller-has-shoulder-surgery/85151042125084/

 

Never played (essentially) again. He was 31. Luck is 28. There's likely more.  But the point is moot now.

[oldunclemark]

  Jim Miller was in his 30s....and a marginal player

   He attempted to come back...He signed with other teams

 

..Jim Miller hardly had a position waiting for him if he returned...

Luck's position is waiting for him.

 

Again..in his 20s..a football QB.....who never came back.

I juts don't think there is any fear that Andrew Luck will NEVER come back and that this is a career-ending injury.

I would take Luck at 90% of his arm strength

Edited November 12, 2017 by oldunclemark

[#12.]

8 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

          95% is pretty high.....

..and the other 5% may not have been in their 20s..

...and their injuries may not have come from football.

..and it may have been 10-20-30 years ago

 

Just me but I have never heard of a football quarterback (Not a baseball pitcher) in his 20s who never cam back after a shoulder injury.

 

Has anyone?

 

 

 

I don't think so, and I've never heard it taking a year and half either.  Of course how many of those players played in an organization dumb enough to have the athlete play with the injury for a year?

[The Fish]

8 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You'd have a hard time convincing anyone that isn't a Colt fan that Luck is still a top 10 QB, let alone a top 2 QB. Luck would first have to be healthy next season, then he would have to be playing like his 2014 self as well. Assuming both of those are true, Watson was leading the league in TDs through 8 games, Wentz is playing like Luck 2014 (without the turnovers) a year ahead of his pace, and Wilson is just better than Luck. That's not mentioning the norm like Brady, Brees, Ryan, Stafford and Alex Smith right now, even Dak Prescott is playing at a high level and there's no guarantee Luck will be better than him. Add young guys like Goff, Mariota, Winston, Cousins, and Carr, and Luck is just a guy now.

 

Luck played like trash in 2015 and 2016 putting this team in deficits before trying to make up for it in the 2nd half. If he wants to even be named a top 10 QB anymore, he is going to have to score hard and fast and lead us to victory instead of putting us into holes like he did the last two years. It may of been due to injury, but he always holds the ball too long, he's always been a turnover machine (INT's and Fumbles), and he's always put us into deficits early into games. He needs to be 2014 Luck again. If not, then we aren't going anywhere with him. Luck has a lot to prove before he's anywhere near the 2nd best QB in the league. He can't sniff Rodgers jock IMO.

 

Your posts almost always have some glaring example of hyperbole that's totally wrong.

[oldunclemark]

3 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

I don't think so, and I've never heard it taking a year and half either.  Of course how many of those players played in an organization dumb enough to have the athlete play with the injury for a year?

all athletes play with Injuries....all the top QBs fight through injuries..

Big Ben. Tom Brady, .Russell Wilson..etc

[#12.]

2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

all athletes play with Injuries....all the top QBs fight through injuries..

Big Ben. Tom Brady, .Russell Wilson..etc

All QBs play with a torn labrum for a full season plus?  It was a year and half from the time he sustained the injury until his surgery.  That's the whole problem here.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

26 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

  Jim Miller was in his 30s....and a marginal player

   He attempted to come back...

 

..Jim Miller hardly had a position waiting for him if he returned...

Luck's position is waiting for him.

 

Again..in his 20s..a football QB.....who never came back.

 

Picking nits, I see. Hmm, very late 20's compared to very early 30's... nice spin. It's  just a 3 year difference.  So I assume you can show a study that proves being 28 allows you to recover from shoulder surgery better than a 31 year old?  Who cares about ultimate talent level, they are/were both NFL caliber quarterbacks.  It took Miller 3 surgeries and a few years to get it right (he has told his story on SiriusXM NFL radio Moving the Chains) and as he was finally getting prepared to play (Eli Manning backup in NY), he had to have hip surgery.

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2005473/bio

 

Miller, as Luck did, played extensively on his injured shoulder before later having surgical intervention performed.

 

BTW, on a QB starved team (forever it seems) like the Bears, Jim Miller was instrumental in their 2001 playoff birth/run. Because of that, he was popular with Bears fans and is still to this day (as well as Michigan State fans).

[ColtsBlueFL]

43 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

I don't think so, and I've never heard it taking a year and half either.  Of course how many of those players played in an organization dumb enough to have the athlete play with the injury for a year?

 

See post on Jim Miller above, and link below.

 

39 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

all athletes play with Injuries....all the top QBs fight through injuries..

Big Ben. Tom Brady, .Russell Wilson..etc

 

Maybe folks here should read this sobering story from ESPN in 2005-

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2176813

[oldunclemark]

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league. Unless you are retired and have created a legacy for yourself, then that will be hung over your head the longer you miss time. Luck has missed a little over a year in playing time. He's really only had one great year in 2014. That was the only year he was top 5. If he's truly top 5, then he'll return to that form assuming he is 100% at the beginning of next season. If not, then he has been passed by the new wave of QB's. For our sake, lets hope he is fully recovered and he reverts back to old form. Until then though, this is a "what have you done for me lately" league, and we can't assume that Luck would of beaten the Steelers or Pats even if he was healthy. Now we have to contend with DeShaun Watson starting next year as well in the division.

But again....We were discussing Luck at 100%

You can preach about "what have you don't for me lately" like Janet Jackson...and talk about how his first 3 years were not all good enough for you.  And whether we can beat Houston?  But that's just not the discussion.

 

...... if Luck returns at 100%...he a Top-5 QB.  The rest is just trolling, isn't it?.

 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Luck is a top 5 QB when he’s 85% healthy. Enough with the nonsense talk of Watson, Wilson and Wentz being better than him. That’s stupid and if you think that, you yourself are stupid. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

This all sucks, but until the Colts tell us something legit, I’m going to have hope. I mean he was just throwing 40 yard passes like a month ago. 

[braveheartcolt]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Irsay??  Irsay hires the people to do their job. If they don't how do you blame Irsay?  It's easy to say fire someone but then they have to be replaced. Irsay can't contact anyone under contract. If he did it would be tampering and the Colts would get fined and a loss of draft picks.

As far as being a laughing stock that is your assumption. The Colts have been the kicking stone for the media and it goes deeper than what is going on this year. The media is using the Colts to get their hits and it started right after deflate-gate. "We" blew the whistle on their golden boy. ESPN has had a negative thing for Irsay even before deflate-gate. That started with Wilbon disliking Jim to the point he compared him to his father.

Personally I couldn't care less about what the media hounds have to say. Why should you?

Well said. Anyway, it appears that Luck is the new Trent Richardson. Where are all those great people I met in town a few years ago? Very few on here for sure. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I posted about a recent study a couple of months ago that reported 95% of overhead athletes that had surgery similar to Lucks returned to sports. (note: that is not 100%....   )

 

 

It was me.  I reported Dr. Safran did the surgery.  Luck has seen multiple specialists since. (which more than likely includes Dr. Andrews, Dr. Safran, and more...)

 

Dr. Marc Safran (Stanford Sports Medicine Team Physician), is the associate chief of sports medicine, fellowship director of sports medicine, and professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at Stanford University. He is a respected and sought out orthopedic surgeon in his own right (though I believe his notable specialty is the hip). I can see Luck having a close relationship to him from his college days and entrusted the procedure to him.

 

With respect to Drew Brees surgery, I believe Dr. Andrews was quoted to have told Brees that had he performed that operation another 100 times, he could not have done a better job, and that is was now all up to Brees to rehab like he never had before to get his shoulder stronger than even before the surgery was even needed to be successful.  Drew did it and more. I heard Andrew did go to Dr. Andrews, and quite likely others (as mentioned above) since the surgery.  On that note, it is reported Luck has also gone to Kevin Wilk for rehab.  Wilk is respected as one of (if not the) top Physical Therapists in sports medicine.  Luck gets close, then gets sore again.  Reboot, repeat same same loop all over again... and again... and again.  Thus he now goes to Europe.

There is no question Dr. Andrews is a tip top orthopod, though he is not alone.  I'll point out a just few more right here (people can look them up if they wish) - Dr. Neal ElAttrache, Dr. David Altchek, Dr. Daniel Buss, Dr. Daniel Cooper, Dr. Russel Warren, and Dr. Lewis Yocum just to name a few (plus many baseball team physicians, like Cincy's Dr. Tim Kremchek, etc).  

 

Dr. Safran is fully qualified to have done the surgery he did on Luck, and it is now leaked that Luck having played on the damaged shoulder in 2016 likely caused extra injury that is now causing setbacks, not necessarily the labrum repair itself.  If so, (or in any event, IMHO) maybe a quick look inside with a scope will provide insight in how to proceed. MRI's are great diagnostic tools, but not totally infallible. To me, any delay in getting a look in and making course direction as necessary puts 2018 in more and more doubt.  I hope I'm wrong in that even more time, more rest, more rehab, and unorthodox (at least to U.S. practice) European treatments do the trick.  I'm just not convinced as yet, though (IE: Ryan Tannehill story).

 

Thanks...   sorry, I shldve realized it was you...    you've been the leader on this all along.  My bad...

 

Question;    Where/when is this so-called "leak" regarding Luck hurting it worse just by playing?    I don't believe I've seen that, unless we are talking semantics?

 

Luck has admitted that it was made worse trying to tackle Denver cornerback Aquib Talib, who picked him off and Luck was trying to bring him down.    Is that the reference?    Or, something else?  

 

 

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

50 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Thanks...   sorry, I shldve realized it was you...    you've been the leader on this all along.  My bad...

 

Question;    Where/when is this so-called "leak" regarding Luck hurting it worse just by playing?    I don't believe I've seen that, unless we are talking semantics?

 

Luck has admitted that it was made worse trying to tackle Denver cornerback Aquib Talib, who picked him off and Luck was trying to bring him down.    Is that the reference?    Or, something else?  

 

 

 

 

 

No, it was more than a tackle.  More like rehabbing and playing all of 2016.  Theory is changing his mechanics to compensate cause additional injury.

 

Several sources received the leak, i believe, with Ian Rapoport being the most notable.  To make reading more interesting, you can start here-

 

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=17bramel_what_andrew_luck_may_be_facing

 

 

[oldunclemark]

3 hours ago, Xander said:

Luck is a top 5 QB when he’s 85% healthy. Enough with the nonsense talk of Watson, Wilson and Wentz being better than him. That’s stupid and if you think that, you yourself are stupid. 

Exactly. If Luck wasnt that good, 3 playoff runs were largely due to Chuck Pagano's great coaching.

 

So was it Chuck or Luck?!!!!

Edited November 12, 2017 by oldunclemark
s

[CF4L]

4 hours ago, #12. said:

I do - possibly the most NFL ready/clutch QB I've ever seen come out of college.  Had he been drafted by Seattle, he might have 3 rings by now.

 

If anything, people do not fully appreciate how bad the teams he played on were. Make no mistake - Millen-esque rosters.  Outside of Manning, who could have won with those teams?  Only a generational-type talent, especially early in his career could have won with what Luck had surrounding him.  

 

 

Maybe or none at all you never know.

He's very good but being a generational talent is just rare. 

 

Its the type of QB you talk about decades later. I don't see that with Luck outside of Colts fandom. 

 

Of course I never had that unrealistic expectation of him to begin with.

 

The AFC South was bad I think any good QB could've won games with the Colts these past few years. Now the division has caught up and the Colts have regressed.

 

 

 

[CF4L]

13 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Then explain why in Luck's first three season he broke virtually every record known for a three year player. He took the Colts to a AFC championship game in three seasons on a team that just came off a 2-14 record.

With those type of numbers it seems you don't know what a generational QB means.

 

For some inexplicable reason you do though. Yes he had 3 really good seasons but the last three not so much. Usually Generational QBs are talked about decades later with a long sustained level of success. Luck hasn't had the latter for whatever reason.

 

Russell Wilson won an SB his second season so did Ben Roethlisberger

 

Neither of those guys are generational QBs either. Very good franchise QBs and that's okay.

 

 

 

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, CF4L said:

 

For some inexplicable reason you do though. Yes he had 3 really good seasons but the last three not so much. Usually Generational QBs are talked about decades later with a long sustained level of success. Luck hasn't had the latter for whatever reason.

 

Russell Wilson won an SB his second season so did Ben Roethlisberger

 

Neither of those guys are generational QBs either. Very good franchise QBs and that's okay.

 

 

 

Inexplicable? No it was explained to you. You just don't want to accept it. That's on you.