Colt's Four Step Roadmap for Tanking

[MikChiken]

Interesting read.

I can get on board with these steps.

I especially agree with throwing all of the young guys in and seeing what you have with them along with getting them experience!

What do you think?

 

LET ME MAKE CLEAR I DO NOT BELIEVE?WANT US TANKING. Before all of the pitch forks come out. 

But this is a good way to hide our tanking if we do...

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/26/indianapolis-colts-tanking-chuck-pagano-jacoby-brissett-andrew-luck-frank-gore

[crazycolt1]

Tanking is for losers with a loser mentality. I understand they are losing but to do it on purpose is horse dung.

It has already been proven it's not where you pick in the draft it's who you pick in the draft. There are teams scattered all over the NFL who are contenders every year and continually have picks in the tail ends of the draft.

I hate to bring up the Patriots but it has worked very well for them and they have the hardware to prove it.

[GoColtsWin]

Not a fan of tanking. Teams should play their healthy  starters. These are pro’s, and need to be out on the field regardless of W’s and L’s. No need to fire CP at this point, he’s gonna assure a poor showing for the rest of the season and that means no tanking is going to be needed for a high draft pick. Was just telling my wife(whom is a life-long niners fan), that it bums me out that we’re not getting the yards/Touchdowns for Frank to pass some of the other all time greats. 

[Swan Ronson]

Following a roadmap for 'tanking' is a good way to disguise you're 'tanking'?

 

Interesting. 

[richard pallo]

I can see the writers suggestions playing out but not by a planned roadmap but by the natural flow of circumstances.  I think Jim wants to win all the time and would never go for a deliberate tanking. We know Irasy doesn't like firing coaches during the season so the bye week could also be a coordinator change instead of Pagano.  But if Pagano  loses the next three Irsay might be tempted to spare Chuck all the anguish and stress and make a change at that time and by doing so he could also get a head start on talking to potential coaches who are not currently working for an NFL team.  I think coaching candidates would be more inclined to talk about an opening when there is a true vacancy not a potential vacancy.  Sort of like Commandment No.1 in the " Coaches Code of Conduct". 

[crazycolt1]

10 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I can see the writers suggestions playing out but not by a planned roadmap but by the natural flow of circumstances.  I think Jim wants to win all the time and would never go for a deliberate tanking. We know Irasy doesn't like firing coaches during the season so the bye week could also be a coordinator change instead of Pagano.  But if Pagano  loses the next three Irsay might be tempted to spare Chuck all the anguish and stress and make a change at that time and by doing so he could also get a head start on talking to potential coaches who are not currently working for an NFL team.  I think coaching candidates would be more inclined to talk about an opening when there is a true vacancy not a potential vacancy.  Sort of like Commandment No.1 in the " Coaches Code of Conduct". 

One thing to keep in mind is without another teams permission Irsay can't even approach someone under contract with another team. That wouldn't happen till the season was over. I agree with your "coaches code of conduct" comment also.

Now what goes on behind closed doors we don't know but it wouldn't be public and the media sure wouldn't be privy to it.

[IndySouthsider]

The colts aren’t tanking. They really are this bad. Don’t fool yourself into believing otherwise!

[IndyScribe]

Colts don't need to tank, and I don't think they will. They're just really bad- bad enough to get a top 5 pick.

[aaron11]

this isnt the nba, no need to tank

 

for every draft bust we took over the last few years, there was somebody better on the board that could have been a solid contributor here

 

 

dorsett over collins was criminal.  he finished third in DPotY voting

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I don't think we are tanking, but the season seems to be playing out the same way it did when Peyton got hurt & now Luck is hurt!

[Thorolf]

28 minutes ago, IndyScribe said:

Colts don't need to tank, and I don't think they will. They're just really bad- bad enough to get a top 5 pick.

I agree that we will not actually tank  on purpose. But I truly believe that you are wrong about one thing....... I really don't think that the majority of our team is really "bad." But they need proper leadership and good coaching in order to win. At the present we don't seem to have either good coaching or true leadership.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Thorolf said:

I agree that we will not actually tank  on purpose. But I truly believe that you are wrong about one thing....... I really don't think that the majority of our team is really "bad." But they need proper leadership and good coaching in order to win. At the present we don't seem to have either good coaching or true leadership.

So the coaches forgot how to coach after three years of winning?  There was no problem winning before 3 years of bad drafts and 3 years of free agent bust. Out of all the players drafted and the free agent singings how many of those players are even on the roster?

[Jackie Daytona]

Does anyone really think that the Colts need to put any effort whatsoever into losing games the rest of the season?  Losing another 7 plus games should happen pretty organically here.....lol  Bring on the draft and free-agency!

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

One thing to keep in mind is without another teams permission Irsay can't even approach someone under contract with another team. That wouldn't happen till the season was over. I agree with your "coaches code of conduct" comment also.

Now what goes on behind closed doors we don't know but it wouldn't be public and the media sure wouldn't be privy to it.

I understand Irsay couldn't approach another NFL's team coach about a job opening without permission.  Letting Chuck go at the bye week would pretty much rule out NFL assistants until the season was over.  But he could talk to college coaches or Jon Gruden, for example, and not have to worry about getting permission from anybody.  They could all feel comfortable in talking because they would not be in violation of the "coaches code of conduct". 

[Thorolf]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So the coaches forgot how to coach after three years of winning?  There was no problem winning before 3 years of bad drafts and 3 years of free agent bust. Out of all the players drafted and the free agent singings how many of those players are even on the roster?

So our veteran players just  forgot how to play? Or are you saying that Gore was not a force to be reckoned with in the past? But how really impressive has he been this year ? There are other players that could be named who were good or at least adequate in past years , but seem to lack any kind of spark this year. That is the sign of poor coaching and lack of leadership. And considering haw much the coaching staff has been jumbled around in the past couple of years it's not that hard to understand.

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I understand Irsay couldn't approach another NFL's team coach about a job opening without permission.  Letting Chuck go at the bye week would pretty much rule out NFL assistants until the season was over.  But he could talk to college coaches or Jon Gruden, for example, and not have to worry about getting permission from anybody.  They could all feel comfortable in talking because they would not be in violation of the "coaches code of conduct". 

Just IMO but I think Pagano will finish the season out. Irsay is not going to let fans or media force him to do anything pre mature. As far as I can remember Irsay hasn't fired a head coach in mid season even after having some pretty bad seasons before. 

[Thorolf]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So the coaches forgot how to coach after three years of winning?  There was no problem winning before 3 years of bad drafts and 3 years of free agent bust. Out of all the players drafted and the free agent singings how many of those players are even on the roster?

So our veteran players just  forgot how to play? Or are you saying that Gore was not a force to be reckoned with in the past? But how really impressive has he been this year ? There are other players that could be named who were good or at least adequate in past years , but seem to lack any kind of spark this year. That is the sign of poor coaching and lack of leadership. And considering haw much the coaching staff has been jumbled around in the past couple of years it's not that hard to understand.

[crazycolt1]

6 minutes ago, Thorolf said:

So our veteran players just  forgot how to play? Or are you saying that Gore was not a force to be reckoned with in the past? But how really impressive has he been this year ? There are other players that could be named who were good or at least adequate in past years , but seem to lack any kind of spark this year. That is the sign of poor coaching and lack of leadership. And considering haw much the coaching staff has been jumbled around in the past couple of years it's not that hard to understand.

Our good veteran players are no longer here. It's a pretty long list if you go back four years. They were eventually replaced with bad draft picks and free agents that busted or injury took them away.

This roster is not even close to having the experience and or talent level we had three years ago,

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Just IMO but I think Pagano will finish the season out. Irsay is not going to let fans or media force him to do anything pre mature. As far as I can remember Irsay hasn't fired a head coach in mid season even after having some pretty bad seasons before. 

I would tend to agree that he will most likely finish the season.  Not like Irsay to fire midseason but here's a " wild and crazy idea".  If Irsay really tried to get Gruden last year, why couldn't he hire him this year as the "interim" head coach at the bye. Gruden gets a real head start on evaluating players and coaches.  Jim goes through the motions of other interviews per the Rooney rule etc.  At the end of the year he is named permanent HC.   He would be certainly skirting the Rooney rule and it would probably not go over well with the NFL to say the least but I imagine it's at least possible a team could do something like that.  Way out there in left field I know but what the heck, fun to speculate. 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

I would tend to agree that he will most likely finish the season.  Not like Irsay to fire midseason but here's a " wild and crazy idea".  If Irsay really tried to get Gruden last year, why couldn't he hire him this year as the "interim" head coach at the bye. Gruden gets a real head start on evaluating players and coaches.  Jim goes through the motions of other interviews per the Rooney rule etc.  At the end of the year he is named permanent HC.   He would be certainly skirting the Rooney rule and it would probably not go over well with the NFL to say the least but I imagine it's at least possible a team could do something like that.  Way out there in left field I know but what the heck, fun to speculate. 

Personally I feel it would be a mistake hiring Gruden. He brings too much media drama with him.

[Thorolf]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

Our good veteran players are no longer here. It's a pretty long list if you go back four years. They were eventually replaced with bad draft picks and free agents that even busted or injury took them away.

This roster is not even close to having the experience and talent level we had three years ago,

Mostly true , but Gore is still here. So his vinitari who used to win us many games. Hilton was a serious weapon for us in the past as well. I  agree and deplore that so many of our veterans have been traded away though. I have scratched my head and cried in my beer over so many of the trades we made during the last few seasons. But when a legend like Vinitari can no longer be counted on to make a simple point-after ,its obviously time to start looking at the coaching and leadership that is driving him.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Thorolf said:

Mostly true , but Gore is still here. So his vinitari who used to win us many games. Hilton was a serious weapon for us in the past as well. I  agree and deplore that so many of our veterans have been traded away though. I have scratched my head and cried in my beer over so many of the trades we made during the last few seasons. But when a legend like Vinitari can no longer be counted on to make a simple point-after ,its obviously time to start looking at the coaching and leadership that is driving him.

Those players you mentioned can't do their jobs without a supporting case. Your comment has me .............

 

[Thorolf]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

Those players you mentioned can't do their jobs without a supporting case. Your comment has me .............

 

Okay, I'll bite....what players failed in their job resulting in Vinitari missing a simple point-after?

[-JJ-]

This come up a lot but as I've said before, you can not tank. By NFL rules you must field a competitive team or face serious fines and possibly loss of draft pick.

[crazycolt1]

14 minutes ago, Thorolf said:

Okay, I'll bite....what players failed in their job resulting in Vinitari missing a simple point-after?

You are making an issue of missing a point after? Since the rule change of moving the point attempt out 33 yards from the goalpost point after the percentage went from 98-99 % to 95%. Just about every kicker in the NFL has missed a point after kick since 2015. Adam just missed one. It had zero to do with what players are on the roster.

[FalseStart]

I don't believe we will tank...the other teams will simply be better and win these games.  A top 10 pick will get a much needed player.  A top 5 pick would give us the option to trade out and acquire possibly another late 1st or 2nd rounder. 

 

With one of the youngest teams...it's time to rebuild...again.

[TheMarine]

Tanking... ffs, all the Colts need to flippin do is follow their standard game plan the rest of the season to freaking tank

[Thorolf]

6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You are making an issue of missing a point after? Since the rule change of moving the point attempt out 33 yards from the goalpost point after the percentage went from 98-99 % to 95%. Just about every kicker in the NFL has missed a point after kick since 2015. Adam just missed one. It had zero to do with what players are on the roster.

I will agree with you about that, but he also missed a field goal  in the same game.  And as to what other players are on the roster, may I remind you that  that was your point , not mine? You said that if a veteran was not performing well it was because he could not get help from the supporting cast, ie "other players on the roster." I was simply trying to show that perhaps some of the problems was due to lack of motivation which is a coaching and leadership problem. Vinitaeri seems to illustrate this in my opinion. You are correct though in your assertion that most of our veteran strength has been lost due to very poor trades.                                                                                                                    So I really think that we are Both correct.... Most of our best talent has been traded away or otherwise lost , and poor coaching is making the problem even worse !

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, Thorolf said:

I will agree with you about that, but he also missed a field goal  in the same game.  And as to what other players are on the roster, may I remind you that  that was your point , not mine? You said that if a veteran was not performing well it was because he could not get help from the supporting cast, ie "other players on the roster." I was simply trying to show that perhaps some of the problems was due to lack of motivation which is a coaching and leadership problem. Vinitaeri seems to illustrate this in my opinion. You are correct though in your assertion that most of our veteran strength has been lost due to very poor trades.                                                                                                                    So I really think that we are Both correct.... Most of our best talent has been traded away or otherwise lost , and poor coaching is making the problem even worse !

My only response is Adam is a kicker. He is not assigned to block, tackle, throw the ball or catch the ball. Comparing and using him as an example of team play and team talent is not related.

[Thorolf]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

My only response is Adam is a kicker. He is not assigned to block, tackle, throw the ball or catch the ball. Comparing and using him as an example of team play and team talent is not related.

But it is very relevant  when applied to motivation and leadership or coaching. When a legend like Adam misses a field goal and a point after in one game , since its not due to other players' failures, it has to be a failure in another area such as coaching . Yes I know that "Every player has a bad day now and then , "   but the buck stops at the coach's desk . That's why he is the coach !

[shasta519]

This isn't 2011...where they let Curtis Painter play until week 12, when they basically had to beat three of NE/BAL/HOU/TEN/JAC to not get the 1st overall pick.

 

The Colts need to be setting themselves up for success next season...when Luck is supposedly healthy and entering his prime. That does mean getting rid of Pagano's influence ASAP and it does mean developing the young players. But those young players include Mack...who shouldn't be losing touches because they want to pad Gore's HOF resume. And it also means letting Luck play a couple games at the end if he is indeed healthy (I don't think he will be) to shake off the rust. 

If this team is truly this bad, then it will work itself out and the Colts will get a top pick anyways.

[Thorolf]

2 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

This isn't 2011...where they let Curtis Painter play until week 12, when they basically had to beat three of NE/BAL/HOU/TEN/JAC to not get the 1st overall pick.

 

The Colts need to be setting themselves up for success next season...when Luck is supposedly healthy and entering his prime. That does mean getting rid of Pagano's influence ASAP and it does mean developing the young players. But those young players include Mack...who shouldn't be losing touches because they want to pad Gore's HOF resume. And it also means letting Luck play a couple games at the end if he is indeed healthy (I don't think he will be) to shake off the rust. 

If this team is truly this bad, then it will work itself out and the Colts will get a top pick anyways.

Very very true ! Well said.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

If this team is truly this bad, then it will work itself out and the Colts will get a top pick anyways.

 

Yup. This team doesn't need to tank to lose 12+ games, not the way they look right now.

[RockThatBlue]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yup. This team doesn't need to tank to lose 12+ games, not the way they look right now.

Can't tank if you would lose anyway 

[runthepost]

The easiest way of tanking would be starting Scott at QB

[crazycolt1]

17 minutes ago, Thorolf said:

But it is very relevant  when applied to motivation and leadership or coaching. When a legend like Adam misses a field goal and a point after in one game , since its not due to other players' failures, it has to be a failure in another area such as coaching . Yes I know that "Every player has a bad day now and then , "   but the buck stops at the coach's desk . That's why he is the coach !

So you have managed to hi jack this thread and make it another fire Chuck thread?   Man, and I thought you have something else to bring.

[Malakai432]

Wow, SI must be bored.  I don't know if they realized that this team doesn't need to TRY and tank to tank.  They're just simply tanking naturally because they aren't good.  It's not rocket science.  

[DaColts85]

33 minutes ago, Thorolf said:

But it is very relevant  when applied to motivation and leadership or coaching. When a legend like Adam misses a field goal and a point after in one game , since its not due to other players' failures, it has to be a failure in another area such as coaching . Yes I know that "Every player has a bad day now and then , "   but the buck stops at the coach's desk . That's why he is the coach !

You are honestly going to say that Pagano is to blame for him missing those?  A guy who has been in the league since 95 and is considered one of if not they greatest at his position.  Pagano's fault for those?  Really?

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

So the coaches forgot how to coach after three years of winning?  There was no problem winning before 3 years of bad drafts and 3 years of free agent bust. Out of all the players drafted and the free agent singings how many of those players are even on the roster?

Yup Preaching to the choir!!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 hour ago, Thorolf said:

So our veteran players just  forgot how to play? Or are you saying that Gore was not a force to be reckoned with in the past? But how really impressive has he been this year ? There are other players that could be named who were good or at least adequate in past years , but seem to lack any kind of spark this year. That is the sign of poor coaching and lack of leadership. And considering haw much the coaching staff has been jumbled around in the past couple of years it's not that hard to understand.

Really name them. This is a very young team with A LOT of new comers!!