Just Say No To Peyton!

[BProland85]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

[OllyDawes]

I think it's probably a bit disrespectful to want someone who has revitalised a franchise, a city and a state almost single handedly. No matter what, Peyton is the symbol of the Colts.

[jedi.creech]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

Epic fail

[jtcoltsfan]

If he somehow is with the team, would you support him, or feel spiteful if the Colts are successful? honest question.

[BProland85]

Epic fail

So are you saying you want us as a franchise to fail just so you can glorify your lovefest for Peyton?

[BProland85]

If he somehow is with the team, would you support him, or feel spiteful if the Colts are successful? honest question.

I wouldnt mind it if Peyton came back under an incentive laden deal. But if keeping Peyton means we lose out of getting Andrew Luck because Luck wants to start, then I dont like that situation. I want us to be successful long term as a franchise, and I feel Luck gives us the best chance to do that.

[21isSuperman]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

So you're blaming Peyton on a poor coaching staff that couldn't figure out the best possible schemes to utilize the talents of the players? You're blaming Peyton for us choosing to play a Tampa 2 defense that is designed to play with a lead? You're blaming Peyton for people (not sure who, possibly Polian, possibly Mora, possibly others) for focusing our entire franchise on him? I don't think he ever went to anyone and said "You have to center this team around me and make sure everything is based off of what I do".

[FireJimCaldwell]

Succeeding in 3-5 years doesn't erase 2-14.

Some better be careful for what they wish for. Life without Manning isn't going to be better than the life with Manning.

[UndecidedFrog]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

I want the Colts to succeed, with or without any one player.

I want the Colts to succeed, despite any one or a combination of several players going down to injury.

I want the Colts to have long-term success, not just in the upcoming season, or in the 5-year time frame, or even the 15-year time frame, but forever.

I want the Colts to build a sustainable management philosophy and team culture that will endure beyond owners, GMs, HCs, players.

I think we are in a unique situation to make this come about now with the current rebuild.

[cokomenow]

Personally, I don't think Peyton will be ready to throw 100% by the March deadline, and I think that Irsay really needs to man up and complete the transition into a "new era."

[jtcoltsfan]

I wouldnt mind it if Peyton came back under an incentive laden deal. But if keeping Peyton means we lose out of getting Andrew Luck because Luck wants to start, then I dont like that situation. I want us to be successful long term as a franchise, and I feel Luck gives us the best chance to do that.

I definitely see your point, and I think that Andrew Luck is the future of this franchise. I wouldn't go so far as to think we might lose out on him. There are some bright minds in Bruce and Clyde, and I don't think his talent would go unused in that capacity. If (a big if) Peyton Manning is still with the Colts, I think you'll see Luck involved in the offense in some capacity. Either way, Andrew is our man for the future, and I'm excited about the 2012 season.

[Larry Horseman]

Succeeding in 3-5 years doesn't erase 2-14.

Some better be careful for what they wish for. Life without Manning isn't going to be better than the life with Manning.

I guarantee that the franchise will never have the sustained regular season success it has had since PM has been under center. History says this much. I think a lot of people are taking for granted the magic we have watched since 1998, and it will hit them at some point...it really hit me week 1 of 2011. It is hard to comprehend the amount of success and failure we as fans have encountered with PM, and that is something we will never have again. Luck may be great, but he will never give us what PM has. PM's style of play and what he meant to the franchise, city, and state combine to be a once in a lifetime--maybe multiple lifetimes--experience.

[MAC]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

Your assumption that they are going to splurge on FAs is miss-guided, as is your assumption that doing so would be a sign of progress. That is NOT how good teams are built. They are built the way that the Colts were, and it resulted in an incredible string of success. Your twisting of that success into something which you are now apparently embarrassed by makes no sense, and is a bit offensive to people like me who have taken enormous satisfaction in the ride.

Here's a suggestion for you, stop watching ESPN if it bothers you. You are talking about a handful of former players who are treated as if they are experts in every aspect of all 32 teams, when in fact that are experts in none. They just throw out often simplistic opinions, and often times the same idea takes hold and is repeated by others who lack the ability or energy to invest the time necessary to formulate an informed opinion. More to the point, who the heck cares what they say? It means absolutely nothing to me.

In short - and I'm having a very difficult time finding a reasonably polite way of saying this - desiring to get rid of possibly the greatest player in the history of the sport BECAUSE of the fact that he is possibly the greatest player in the history of the sport is just silly. There isn't a team in the league that wouldn't take a healthy Peyton Manning on their team in a heartbeat. Just enjoy it while you can, because players like that don't come around very often. If ever.

[The Fish]

Im of the opinion that he won't make it back to the field, I doubt he's going to be able to do enough of what he needs to do.. If he can play, great.

I really don't see how we as fans can avoid the fact that Peyton can't play forever and we have what is being touted as the best chance to get a "franchise QB" were going to get. Irsay says were going QB with the one pick. He says he'll try to figure out a situation to keep him.

I'm not convinced that the Colts are SOL if Luck starts day one.

We really were bad because of QB play. Luck as Archie says "can play". I'm not talking anything real special right yet, but playoffs in 2 seasons isn't unlikely. There are so many other things going on with the franchise, it's hard to be certain of anything.

As to the thread title, are you trying to make peoples heads explode?

[doogansquest]

I wouldnt mind it if Peyton came back under an incentive laden deal. But if keeping Peyton means we lose out of getting Andrew Luck because Luck wants to start, then I dont like that situation. I want us to be successful long term as a franchise, and I feel Luck gives us the best chance to do that.

So Luck wanting to start would guarantee us more success than a healthy Peyton Manning?

Luck is a rookie, but will get paid more than most proven veterans in this league. No one in NFL history other than Peyton Manning has proven they can play, and win, with very little help from a coaching staff. Now he's got a chance to have a new coaching staff, completed in the same year, growing together, on the same page, with defensive minds all around him. The one thing the team has sorely lacked in support of Manning - defensive COACHING (note: I did not say "players" because we've had talented defensive players), will now be there. Yet you want to curb the chance to not only win some Super Bowls in the next few years, but set up a good team for Luck down the road, in favor of just starting the rookie now? Is that going to be better?

The same amount of money gets spent on players every year: that's the salary cap. What makes you think Luck + players will be better in 2012 than Manning + players? Just because less money is spent on one position doesn't mean you win. An unproven rookie, vs. the greatest player of all-time (if healthy)... what's the difference between the two? About $10 million per year, I'd say, and worth every penny. If we can have both, then even better.

If we can have both, it's better to have success now AND later than it is to just hope for success later.

I don't even know why I'm patronizing this garbage...

Your assumption that they are going to splurge on FAs is miss-guided, as is your assumption that doing so would be a sign of progress. That is NOT how good teams are built. They are built the way that the Colts were, and it resulted in an incredible string of success. Your twisting of that success into something which you are now apparently embarrassed by makes no sense, and is a bit offensive to people like me who have taken enormous satisfaction in the ride.

Here's a suggestion for you, stop watching ESPN if it bothers you. You are talking about a handful of former players who are treated as if they are experts in every aspect of all 32 teams, when in fact that are experts in none. They just throw out often simplistic opinions, and often times the same idea takes hold and is repeated by others who lack the ability or energy to invest the time necessary to formulate an informed opinion. More to the point, who the heck cares what they say? It means absolutely nothing to me.

In short - and I'm having a very difficult time finding a reasonably polite way of saying this - desiring to get rid of possibly the greatest player in the history of the sport BECAUSE of the fact that he is possibly the greatest player in the history of the sport is just silly. There isn't a team in the league that wouldn't take a healthy Peyton Manning on their team in a heartbeat. Just enjoy it while you can, because players like that don't come around very often. If ever.

Well said, MAC. The end of this topic.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Woohoo! Back to the 1990s. I had more hair then and it wasn't gray.

[jedi.creech]

I want the Colts to succeed, with or without any one player.

I want the Colts to succeed, despite any one or a combination of several players going down to injury.

I want the Colts to have long-term success, not just in the upcoming season, or in the 5-year time frame, or even the 15-year time frame, but forever.

I want the Colts to build a sustainable management philosophy and team culture that will endure beyond owners, GMs, HCs, players.

I think we are in a unique situation to make this come about now with the current rebuild.

This works if Luck is what he suppose to be... Question... Whats back up plan if Luck isn't Iron Man like Manning was.... Are we still just doing same thing building around QB? Same theme except different name... Hope Luck is able to fill those shoes

[jedi.creech]

I wouldnt mind it if Peyton came back under an incentive laden deal. But if keeping Peyton means we lose out of getting Andrew Luck because Luck wants to start, then I dont like that situation. I want us to be successful long term as a franchise, and I feel Luck gives us the best chance to do that.

Just another quote from the LFCM...

[FireJimCaldwell]

I guarantee that the franchise will never have the sustained regular season success it has had since PM has been under center. History says this much. I think a lot of people are taking for granted the magic we have watched since 1998, and it will hit them at some point...it really hit me week 1 of 2011. It is hard to comprehend the amount of success and failure we as fans have encountered with PM, and that is something we will never have again. Luck may be great, but he will never give us what PM has. PM's style of play and what he meant to the franchise, city, and state combine to be a once in a lifetime--maybe multiple lifetimes--experience.

They might eventually change the structure of the team so it's not so QB heavy, I'm not seeing signs of that yet, but time will tell. Other QB's have had more team success than Manning and this isn't the thread to hash out those issues he's dealt with. My brother once called him Pampers because he covers the rear of the whole franchise and he's been able to generate an amount of wins not many others would come close to in the same situation.

For those that think a simple replacement of Manning with Luck is like fixing a flat tire, I wish them in Luck over the next decade or so.

[UndecidedFrog]

This works if Luck is what he suppose to be... Question... Whats back up plan if Luck isn't Iron Man like Manning was.... Are we still just doing same thing building around QB? Same theme except different name... Hope Luck is able to fill those shoes

This works no matter what happens or who is on the Colts team.

If Luck goes down, we should expect the next man up to succeed, with the offensive scheme we will install that will not be eccentric to Luck (as it was to Peyton per Metzelaar's comments).

If Luck turns 36, and experiences 3 or 4 neck surgeries, such that he is out of football for a season, and has uncertainty surrounding his ability to play, I suggest we look for another QB to draft or sign via FA, if we are not already developing his replacement.

[jedi.creech]

This works no matter what happens or who is on the Colts team.

If Luck goes down, we should expect the next man up to succeed, with the offensive scheme we will install that will not be eccentric to Luck (as it was to Peyton per Metzelaar's comments).

If Luck turns 36, and experiences 3 or 4 neck surgeries, such that he is out of football for a season, and has uncertainty surrounding his ability to play, I suggest we look for another QB to draft or sign via FA, if we are not already developing his replacement.

Wait... You know how the new O is going to be?

[UndecidedFrog]

Wait... You know how the new O is going to be?

Yes, just as much as you know that Peyton will be a Colt and start the 2012 season. LOL.

[Amy Goulet]

^{I don't think I am going to read this forum anymore....I find it distressful how quickly some fans have turned on Peyton *sigh*...whether or not he is able to play, he deserves respect for what he has done for this franchise....like someone said in a previous forum, going 2-14 this year proves just how much Peyton means to this team and how poor the coaching was to not have something in place if something were to happen to Peyton.}

[KyFan18]

In the words of Steven A. Smith..."SO DISRESPECTFUL!"

[GAColtfan]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

Thoughts are that you have a short memory, or haven't been a fan of this team pre-Manning. Pre-Manning, well, we sucked a lot of years. Since we moved to Indy, pre-Manning we struggled to have a winning season, much less consective 10+ win seasons, division titles, Super Bowl appearances, etc.

To toss this out the window like a piece of trash is, and I don't use this word lightly, stupid... don't know what will happen from here on out, but to think that somehow Luck is Plug-n-Play and things will be just as successful as Manning, that is a huge, huge assumption.

There are so many variables right now- who knows if the coach can actually lead a team? who knows if the next "can't bust" #1 pick will be more like Peyton Manning or JaMarcus Russel? who knows if we can acquire the right kind of talent to eventually replace the vets who have been with Manning- Saturday, Wayne, etc.?

Too many variables to just assume we run Manning out of town and we will suddenly be OK, much less enjoy running him out of town

(BTW if you enjoyed having a Super Bowl in Indy, thank #18)

[Susie Q]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

My thoughts.

[ruksak]

[Wyld1]

Woohoo! Back to the 1990s. I had more hair then and it wasn't gray.

I had a mullet in the early 90's ;)

[Coffeedrinker]

So

Tthe Colts with a ton of injuries and Peyton Manning are a 10-6, playoff team.

The Colts with a ton of injuries and no Peyton Manning are a 2-14 team.

And you want to get rid of Peyton to prove the Colts are more than one player so ESPN stops bashing the Colts.

And that somehow makes sense to you?

You do realize that the Colts have not signed a lot of free agents over the years was NOT because of Manning but because Polian didn't believe in signing a lot of free agents? He thought big names=big money not big names=big production. And history has proven him correct.

You do realize that ESPN has bashed the Colts for years and that is not going to change?

Lastly, football is a team game and it takes more than one person to win and more than one to lose. But it's a proven fact that the Colts are a better team with Manning at QB than they are without him.

[DILLIGAFER]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

I like to classify you in the 'what have you done for me lately' club.

:o

[189344Colts]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

Boy has this thread taken a turn from where it started so I'm going back to where it started..... I'd like to see Peyton stay for umpteen reasons.....

1. I LOVE watching the man play, he is a true artist.

2. Regardless of what others say, I still feel that Indy is the house that Peyton built, he should remain here. If Irsay just cuts him the state would probably revolt and he'd have more crap raining on him than any one man could handle in 10 lifetimes. If Peyton retires thats fine, it's HIS choice, he deserves that much respect.

3. I remember how shabbily Green Bay treated Aaron Rogers when he first came on as QB when Brett started his endless retire, unretire, retire, unretire ^cowpatties^. He is now seen as a joke rather than a respected Hall of Famer. Rogers has done a heck of a job, I admire him and the team. After all the turmoil of this season I don't want to see that storm hit here.

4. I feel Luck would have a much better chance at long term success (if we draft him) to benefit from learning from Peyton. Not saying become a Manning clone, just learning. He may have ideas or systems he likes and Peyton could help him build on or improve, transitioning Luck into our next goldmine.

I'm not as knowledgeable and all of you on here, I enjoy the game and I LOVE the Colts so I won't pretend to be some voice of wisdom but I know what my gut tells me. If Irsay cuts Manning it'll get ugly... fast. The whole team is not Manning, we are not the Indianapolis Peytons but lets face it, no one has done a darn thing in that organization to have a GOOD or even decent back up QB and they had to know the day was coming, any ^fool^ would have had to know that but they seemed to think he was immortal somehow. I'm just a simple gal who lives for Sunday's in the winter and watching our boys in blue go out kickin butt and taking names. Manning is a huge part of this organization, he helped build it and has adjusted to all the changes over the last decade and I want to see him here until he retires from playing. Everyone benefits from him staying... EVERYONE.

[DILLIGAFER]

Boy has this thread taken a turn from where it started so I'm going back to where it started..... I'd like to see Peyton stay for umpteen reasons.....

1. I LOVE watching the man play, he is a true artist.

2. Regardless of what others say, I still feel that Indy is the house that Peyton built, he should remain here. If Irsay just cuts him the state would probably revolt and he'd have more crap raining on him than any one man could handle in 10 lifetimes. If Peyton retires thats fine, it's HIS choice, he deserves that much respect.

3. I remember how shabbily Green Bay treated Aaron Rogers when he first came on as QB when Brett started his endless retire, unretire, retire, unretire ^cowpatties^. He is now seen as a joke rather than a respected Hall of Famer. Rogers has done a heck of a job, I admire him and the team. After all the turmoil of this season I don't want to see that storm hit here.

4. I feel Luck would have a much better chance at long term success (if we draft him) to benefit from learning from Peyton. Not saying become a Manning clone, just learning. He may have ideas or systems he likes and Peyton could help him build on or improve, transitioning Luck into our next goldmine.

I'm not as knowledgeable and all of you on here, I enjoy the game and I LOVE the Colts so I won't pretend to be some voice of wisdom but I know what my gut tells me. If Irsay cuts Manning it'll get ugly... fast. The whole team is not Manning, we are not the Indianapolis Peytons but lets face it, no one has done a darn thing in that organization to have a GOOD or even decent back up QB and they had to know the day was coming, any ^fool^ would have had to know that but they seemed to think he was immortal somehow. I'm just a simple gal who lives for Sunday's in the winter and watching our boys in blue go out kickin butt and taking names. Manning is a huge part of this organization, he helped build it and has adjusted to all the changes over the last decade and I want to see him here until he retires from playing. Everyone benefits from him staying... EVERYONE.

What she said.. ;)

[189344Colts]

I got quoted!!! KILLA!!!!

[Susie Q]

Just had to out do me didn't ya ?

[Fx Stryker]

I had a mullet in the early 90's ;)

Hey so did I, but I was like three years old.

[Fx Stryker]

ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late.

They have always bashed us. It's not going to change with Peyton, or without Peyton.

[UndecidedFrog]

Boy has this thread taken a turn from where it started so I'm going back to where it started..... I'd like to see Peyton stay for umpteen reasons.....

1. I LOVE watching the man play, he is a true artist.

2. Regardless of what others say, I still feel that Indy is the house that Peyton built, he should remain here. If Irsay just cuts him the state would probably revolt and he'd have more s**t raining on him than any one man could handle in 10 lifetimes. If Peyton retires thats fine, it's HIS choice, he deserves that much respect.

3. I remember how shabbily Green Bay treated Aaron Rogers when he first came on as QB when Brett started his endless retire, unretire, retire, unretire ^cowpatties^. He is now seen as a joke rather than a respected Hall of Famer. Rogers has done a heck of a job, I admire him and the team. After all the turmoil of this season I don't want to see that storm hit here.

4. I feel Luck would have a much better chance at long term success (if we draft him) to benefit from learning from Peyton. Not saying become a Manning clone, just learning. He may have ideas or systems he likes and Peyton could help him build on or improve, transitioning Luck into our next goldmine.

I'm not as knowledgeable and all of you on here, I enjoy the game and I LOVE the Colts so I won't pretend to be some voice of wisdom but I know what my gut tells me. If Irsay cuts Manning it'll get ugly... fast. The whole team is not Manning, we are not the Indianapolis Peytons but lets face it, no one has done a darn thing in that organization to have a GOOD or even decent back up QB and they had to know the day was coming, any ^fool^ would have had to know that but they seemed to think he was immortal somehow. I'm just a simple gal who lives for Sunday's in the winter and watching our boys in blue go out kickin butt and taking names. Manning is a huge part of this organization, he helped build it and has adjusted to all the changes over the last decade and I want to see him here until he retires from playing. Everyone benefits from him staying... EVERYONE.

What if PM has not sufficiently recovered from his multiple surgeries?

Should the Colts pay PM the $28MM option bonus and take the risk? Even after paying $26.4MM last season for him not to play?

If you were the financial manager of the team, and had a fiduciary duty to your employer, what would you advise the owner (your employer) to do?

[Wyld1]

Hey so did I, but I was like three years old.

And a virgin...has that changed? ;)

Just joking....not really

[Fx Stryker]

And a virgin...has that changed? ;)

Just joking....not really

I'll give that a "like."

[Wyld1]

I'll give that a "like."

Me too!