Irsays Breaking News...wants Peyton Back *if* ((Merged))

[jedi.creech]

I understand why Irsay did this... I just think it makes him look very bad... It may put the "ball" in Mannings court, but... He is just pushing Manning to make a decision. It's clearly a PR move to go to media with this before even having the meeting with Manning... I just keep going back to the way the Colts handled Sanders... How many games did Sanders play in last 3 years of him being a Colt... They gave him how many years to get healthy with a HUGE contract... I think it's a very sad move on Irsay to look like a good guy, but at same still pushing Manning out of town... At this point I think if this discussion was held behind close doors Manning may have taken this deal, but pushing Manning to make a choice.. Sorry if I was Manning I would just say "you have more faith in a rookie, wish you best of luck, see you on the field".... And just really let Irsay see what he ran out of town. I also feel because no video leaks have been sent out Manning isn't "there" yet... But we are still 6 months away from opening day... Hasn't he only had 5 months of rehab since his last surgery? Imagine what 5 more months will do

[jedi.creech]

..... Follow up with last post didn't he even have to heal a month or two before rehab started so he's really only had 3 to 4 months to rehab... We are talking 5 more month of potential rehab that is in an advance stages of rehab, not the "walking" part... More I think about it more I feel Manning will be better, and Irsay is just wanting to go into rebuild mode too bad... I don't think it's about money... I think it's just Irsay got his new young stud and wants to call all out...

[jskinnz]

Wow I thought this was a positive thing on Irsay part but after reading some of theses post the wheels keep spinnin...

Amazing.....

How are you able to find time to post with all the puppy dogs, lollipops, rainbows and unicorns in your world?

[schwamm]

Regeneration of the nerve can take up to 18 months (which would put us at March 2013), and may never fully happen.

Though Peyton is progressing now, there's no guarantee it will fully regenerate, and improvement could stagnate/stop at any time.

Regeneration will likely not fully take place by March 8, 2012.

This is really interesting, and the first I've seen this tidbit. Can you provide any sources for the info? If true, it definitely alters my perspective.

The new coaching staff is a positive. The draft will be a positive. Once this off season drama is behind the excitement and energy of this team will grow as the season approaches. An experienced QB is the major key to this.

I'd be more inclined to say the new staff and the draft are both big ???, but I have high hopes. Always do.

[bayone]

Colts owner's words put pressure back on Manning

Excepts page 1, is another page

It's a great public-relations move by Indianapolis Colts owner Jim Irsay, even if I'm not convinced it was done for public-relations purposes. But it's a questionable football move.

Because if the veteran player says he wants to come back under Irsay's terms of a diminished, incentive-laden contract, if he calls his bluff, we are looking at an inordinately uncomfortable situation where a still-injured Manning is almost immediately engaged in a quarterback controversy with the sure No. 1 draft pick, Andrew Luck.

Here's where we are now after Irsay spoke to me and The Indianapolis Star's Mike Chappell on Tuesday afternoon

Irsay will tell him, "We want you to come back,'' but he'll quickly add that the team can't do it under the current contract. Right now, Manning is owed $28 million by March 8, and with his base salary, he would receive more than $35 million next season.

Irsay is not going to offer anything close to what's already on the table. His team already is salary-cap-strapped, and he wants to re-sign Pierre Garcon and Robert Mathis, as well as possibly others at a reduced rate.

So it's all on Manning now.

And, just guessing here, he's not going to be thrilled.

If he returns, it's going to be on the Colts' terms, and while Manning comes off as the ultimate hero, the Colts and Irsay get some of that reflected glory.

I don't see Manning liking this.

I don't see Manning's agent, Tom Condon, liking this one bit.

I don't see them accepting whatever offer Irsay puts on the table, and, quite frankly, I'm not sure Irsay wants Manning to take whatever offer is on the table

FROM PAGE 2 only a touch of it

Now, if Manning is willing to take Irsay's offer, let me be the first to throw him a parade while uttering mea culpas. It would be an amazing, selfless thing to do and would solidify his place in this community as a true icon and sports hero.

I just don't see it.

The cons outweigh the pros

http://www.thestarpr...215002/-1/RSS01

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Irsay knows darn well that Peyton will be angry with what he said to the press yesterday.

[ColtsBlueFL]

This is really interesting, and the first I've seen this tidbit. Can you provide any sources for the info? If true, it definitely alters my perspective. I'd be more inclined to say the new staff and the draft are both big ???, but I have high hopes. Always do.

Pricey but some folks actualy buy and read these-

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/188-2246675-1585147?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Nerve+Regeneration%3A+Tissue+Engineering+Strategies&x=0&y=0

My understanding is nerves of the peripheral nervous system can grow up to 2mm per day if small, and up to 5 mm per day for large ones. This does not take into account roadblocks/plateau's etc...

[bayone]

Pricey but some folks actualy buy and read these-

http://www.amazon.co...ategies&x=0&y=0

My understanding is nerves of the peripheral nervous system can grow up to 2mm per day if small, and up to 5 mm per day for large ones. This does not take into account roadblocks/plateau's etc...

That is true, a nerve root is not really a periheral system but the very star where branches off the spinal cord, hoow close to cord plays a part

, & the thing is if it was permanently damaged it doesnt matter

I WROTE THIS BEFORE

I have been asked this too often so here it is in a blog for all to read and gain some insight

We all know he has a weakness in his triceps

We all here about nerve regeneration

atrophy is the muscle wasting , loss of muscle mass, and thus the weakness

( of course the yonger or healthier 1 is at any age more muscle can regrow & being a pro athlete may also help )

. atrohpy is not peytons real problem, just an end result

also when u here about nerve regeneration forget it, there is no such thing as a nerve root that can regenerate at todays level of technology, maybe in future with stem cells

( and let me say, my disability company always tries to buy out my policy trying to convince me that is imminent , I know better and my Nephew also runs a research lab that does some experiments regarding stem cells )

they use that term, nerve regeneration to make it easier for layman to understand the situation I imagine

This is peytons situation

he had a nerve root irritated by a bony fragment or closing down of the canal though the bone that the nerve travels and thus pressed on the nerve

any nerve being irritated enough will stop sending or send a poor amount of signal to the muscle it attaches too, that is it innervates ,

Now think of the nerve signal as food, with out food we all wither and die, well a nerve signal itself is food for the muscle, the the less it gets the more that muscle withers & loses muscle mass or atrophies

Now I am sure after the last procedure there is no irritation or pressing down on that nerve but that may no longer matter

Depending on how long a nerve is irritated even if we remove that irritation it may if irritated long enough become permanently broken so to speak where it cant send as it doesnt have enough properly functioning connected nerve endings to muscle fibers for the proper amount of signal to be gerated to that muscle thus feeding it less and without what they actuially call this signal provides, nerve nutrition , pending on exactly how much is sent to the muscle will actually determine the amount of muscle girth that can come back via rehab & workouts

Now who knows how long he had this problem, did he play with it during last season ?? can take awhile before the muscle atrophies once the signal decreases,, he had it at least for the first of 2 surgeries last year so by having the first procedure and hoping it would work and then having the last procedure that much later, unfortunately may have actually resulted in some initial or worsen any already permanent damage to the nerve that may already have existed , while having the full procedure to start with in hindsight would thus have ben better

Remember Dungy, attributes it way to specific hit 2006 Vikings a game that , also last year during 1st texan game he was drilled often and I had posted a picture of him on the old mycolts siite lying motionless with neck crooked and ref ed hockelee over him looking close and about to call for help when peyton started to get up

I would not be suprised if either one together with the multiple hits over time started the bony overgrowth and eventual pressing & irritation of said nerve root, thats just a guess as to that hit, I am sure all the multiple hits over time contributed to some degree

if u watched games like i did u would have seen yes little sacks but instead of following the throw watched how often peyton got drilled a and knocked down it was scary., often he was sandwhiched , any of these hits and all of course together over time could of done it, so again it depends on length of time nerve was irrutated as to the degree of permanent damage,

a nerve root does not simply regenerate

GO to this profile and look at last years Denver game picture on Gordons web site

http://direct.colts....iles_friendList

and see what a sanbdwhich hit is and look at the pain in peytons face, such a hit can snap that neck / nerve badly

There is absolutely no way to tell for sure the exact degree a muscle can come back

BUT see later as

can make an educated guess ...

the muscle may yet still regain strength just slowly

but by the march deadline is doubtfull, still pending on how much back may be enough for someone with his brain, and way he dissects the D

one can use EMG & Nerve Condiuction velocity studies to gauge how that nerve impulse is doing, that would use the services of a PHYSIATRIST , that is a rehab Dr. that takes these studies and interprests all these weird lines

Personal experience

5 vertebrae operated on neck in 1988, dropped , got post op infection

ended surgical career ( of course techniques were more primitive then and I had multiple level problems involving not just nerve roots but the spinal cord and its outer coat, the myelin sheath as well )

Currently all muscles in my legs and arms save for left thumb are abnormal, my right arm & I am righty has no muscle compared to the left as right side nerves R more affected & in my right the hand muscles are almost non existent compared to left

These were all "predicted " at one point after my surgery as per my EMG & nerve Conduction velocity studies prior to my left arm gaining more muscle mass than myright, as I said above, an EDUCATED GUESS just may be possible.

I Hope This helps, Regards , Barry

[schwamm]

Pricey but some folks actualy buy and read these-

http://www.amazon.co...ategies&x=0&y=0

My understanding is nerves of the peripheral nervous system can grow up to 2mm per day if small, and up to 5 mm per day for large ones. This does not take into account roadblocks/plateau's etc...

Thanks. It sounds extremely doubtful that Manning will even play in 2012, then... for anybody. Maybe we can let him go, let him negotiate an enormous contract with Washington, Miami, or Arizona for 2012, have them cut him after 1 season of no play there, and bring him back in 2013.

[UndecidedFrog]

undecidedfrog=

manningstheman =

[buccolts]

This is really interesting, and the first I've seen this tidbit. Can you provide any sources for the info? If true, it definitely alters my perspective.

Hi Schwamm, I believe someone else answered this question.

I made those statements based on many references made on this board, some by proclaimed professionals, and some who've gone through similar surgeries/treatments.

What I stated was pretty much a consensus of that information, and I haven't seen a dispute to them.

[buccolts]

Thanks. It sounds extremely doubtful that Manning will even play in 2012, then... for anybody. Maybe we can let him go, let him negotiate an enormous contract with Washington, Miami, or Arizona for 2012, have them cut him after 1 season of no play there, and bring him back in 2013.

Play in the 2012 season = possible.

Play at 100% in 2012 season = less possible.

Never play again = possible, not sounding likely though.

What you propose as a possibility IS a possibility, but I'd find it difficult to believe it'll happen.

For that scenario to happen, Luck (or whoever) would have to suffer a career ending injury, or really stink it up badly in 2012.

Otherwise, how could you pull the rug out from underneath the new QB at that point?

To me? If the Colts don't sign Peyton back by mid training camp, he'll likely never be a Colt again. Well, until we sign him to a 1 day contract so he can retire as a Colt.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Some are mad at Irsay, but honestly he is just saying what any good businessman would do! He wants Peyton, but he wants a more cap friendly contract that protects the team going forward. I see nothing wrong with that. I think telling the media that is fine lets face this is a big story! It also prepares Peyton, & his agent for the upcoming meeting. Irsay will Pay Peyton right while fielding a good team around him. Now if Irsay takes this deal off the table when they meet. Then Irsay is an butt

[bayone]

Colts owner Jim Irsay is the one playing politics with Peyton Manning

Yahoo sports

Manning certainly isn’t above a little politics, but it’s the holier-than-thou Irsay who keeps taking it to new levels. Tuesday he spoke out in another series of unnecessary media interviews that tried to lay the decision on whether Manning ever again plays for Indy on the player

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/bf28j?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=indianapolis-colts

Peyton Manning: Star QB Won't Be Viewed as Villain If He Decides to Leave Colts

Bleacher Report

Let's be honest: Nobody's going to blame Manning if he leaves. Ownership is showing doubt in him, and the team went 2-14 last season in his absence

.

The reality is, Manning and the Colts would be better off without each other at this point. The Colts don't have enough talent around Manning to contend for a title, and they're in rebuilding mode.

There's also the fact that Manning has won a championship for Indy and has 11 Pro Bowl selections and four MVPs to his name. That kind of production, not to mention being a future Hall of Famer, tends to garner you some respect. You honestly think Colts fans are going to look at him as if he's LeBron James when he leaves? He has stayed with the Colts for 13 seasons, for crying out loud.

Manning has built up such a reputation in Indianapolis that he could denounce the city and the Colts, and people would tell him they understand.

He's virtually untouchable.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1067250-peyton-manning-wont-be-viewed-as-villain-if-he-decides-to-leave-colts?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=indianapolis-colts

[nsurg]

My understanding is nerves of the peripheral nervous system can grow up to 2mm per day if small, and up to 5 mm per day for large ones. This does not take into account roadblocks/plateau's etc...

Conventional wisdom is 1mm/day or about 1 inch/month. This really has very little clinical relevance for compression of a nerve, it may apply more to a nerve transection with attempted direct repair where one anticipates the start of noticable clinical recovery.

For nerve compression there is no rule, but it is so exceptionally common that any astute surgeon (who actually bothers to follow patients postop) will have a general understanding. I have somewhat summarized typical nerve regeneration patterns in previous posts.

I think we're all arguing a moot point. My sad prediction is that manning will be on the roster for some team next season but will probably never play again at a high level/arm strength which may equate to simply not playing again. I absolutely could be wrong, and I'd love to be wrong.

[hawkeyes]

Said this last week AFTER Peytons comments about his willingness to have a contract based on performance ... IF he was willing to do it for another team, he should be wiling to do it here! NOW that Irsay has said he is open to that, I think Peyton is almost obligated to restructure a deal to do just that or it will be him that ends up looking like the greedy football player.

[UndecidedFrog]

Said this last week AFTER Peytons comments about his willingness to have a contract based on performance ...

To my knowledge, Peyton has never made comments that affirmed that he would be willing to have a contract based on performance.

Do you have a link?

[Coffeedrinker]

This was just posted about the coaching staff. Pretty lame if this is the news.

http://www.colts.com...98-97191199f090

That was posted to colts.com last night, so I doubt if that was it.

[hawkeyes]

To my knowledge, Peyton has never made comments that affirmed that he would be willing to have a contract based on performance.

Do you have a link?

Have you been in a deep sleep? LOL

The media covered his comments in detail - one such link >

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7543001/peyton-manning-flexible-deal-demands-sources-say

"Manning is completely open to creating a contract in which he would be paid little or no guaranteed money up front and he would have to earn every cent he makes strictly through performance, according to sources."

[jskinnz]

Have you been in a deep sleep? LOL

The media covered his comments in detail - one such link >

http://espn.go.com/n...nds-sources-say

"Manning is completely open to creating a contract in which he would be paid little or no guaranteed money up front and he would have to earn every cent he makes strictly through performance, according to sources."

You are about to get a beat down on this.

[Coffeedrinker]

To my knowledge, Peyton has never made comments that affirmed that he would be willing to have a contract based on performance.

Do you have a link?

Has Peyton said it? Not to the media, that does not mean it has not been said. Believe it or not there were things said, that were the truth long before people had the ability to provide a link.

But what most people forget is that the sources stated, "if the Colts release Manning..."

[FireJimCaldwell]

You are about to get a beat down on this.

Sources say Jskinnz could be right.

[Coffeedrinker]

Have you been in a deep sleep? LOL

The media covered his comments in detail - one such link >

http://espn.go.com/n...nds-sources-say

"Manning is completely open to creating a contract in which he would be paid little or no guaranteed money up front and he would have to earn every cent he makes strictly through performance, according to sources."

He's going to come back and say, "no one has confirmed PEYTON said it...".

[hawkeyes]

He's going to come back and say, "no one has confirmed PEYTON said it...".

Probably ...

[bayone]

Said this last week AFTER Peytons comments about his willingness to have a contract based on performance ... IF he was willing to do it for another team, he should be wiling to do it here! NOW that Irsay has said he is open to that, I think Peyton is almost obligated to restructure a deal to do just that or it will be him that ends up looking like the greedy football player.

Peyton shot that down

Peyton laughs at report by Adam Schefter he would be contract flexible for other teams to sign

Here link Look at bottom of the artricle and it says

where Peyton Laughed at this

Over the weekend, it was reported Peyton would agree to be flexible with contract demands with a new team, accepting an incentive-laden deal that takes into account his rehab from the Sept. 8 neck surgery. According to sources, there will be no lack of suitors if Manning hits the open market -- the Miami Dolphins, Washington Redskins, Arizona Cardinals, New York Jets, etc.

Manning laughed.

"I've always wanted to meet 'sources,' " he said. " 'Source' and 'they' seem to know an awful lot, but they aren't always accurate. I haven't had many discussions with Tom (Condon, his agent). I told Tom all I want to do is continue to rehab."

He is uncertain where that might occur. He likely will spend time at the Colts' West 56th Street facility but might hop-scotch the country so he can throw with familiar receivers.

"I want to go home, too," he said. "We haven't been to New Orleans yet."

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120207/SPORTS03/202070329/For-Pey...

[Scipio]

He's going to come back and say, "no one has confirmed PEYTON said it...".

On the flip side, Manning did not say that he did not state it either.... when he had the opportunity. So who knows. It is best to just let Irsay and Manning chat and make an announcement at this point.

[Coffeedrinker]

On the flip side, Manning did not say that he did not state it either.... when he had the opportunity. So who knows. It is best to just let Irsay and Manning chat and make an announcement at this point.

I'm not sure which is more funny.... Irsay and Manning's posturing or reading some if the speculation threads on this forum.

[UndecidedFrog]

Have you been in a deep sleep? LOL

The media covered his comments in detail - one such link >

http://espn.go.com/n...nds-sources-say

"Manning is completely open to creating a contract in which he would be paid little or no guaranteed money up front and he would have to earn every cent he makes strictly through performance, according to sources."

I'm glad others have made my point for me. (TY to bayone, jskinnz, and firejimcaldwell)

No beat down necessary.

BTW, I wasn't in any deep sleep. I was just reading critically.

[Fireman818]

How can people on here say this was a great move by Irsay? The man said keep it in house, lets have a meeting and clear the air then you slap Peyton in the face and take it out of the house again. It wasn't about the money now it is! If healthy he would be a Colt! To be honest, if I were Luck I wouldn't want to play for this organization if the owner was going to turn all Al Davis, Jerry Jones on his players.

Good luck Mr. Luck, this franchise is headed back into the Jeff George years. How fast it all crumbles. I'm starting to feel ashamed to call myself a Colts fan. This is not going to end well and our organization is not going to painted well by the media.

Believe! All In! Next Man Up! For what!

[BleedingBlue]

The apple (Jim) doesn't fall from the tree (Bob).

[hawkeyes]

On the flip side, Manning did not say that he did not state it either.... when he had the opportunity.

Thats exactly right!!!

I'm glad others have made my point for me. (TY to bayone, jskinnz, and firejimcaldwell)

See above ...

[BNS]

NEWS in horseshoe land,coming up...stay tuned to http://colts.com!!!

It's been 24 hours since he tweeted this...how long do we have to wait?

[Scipio]

NEWS in horseshoe land,coming up...stay tuned to http://colts.com!!!

It's been 24 hours since he tweeted this...how long do we have to wait?

Dude.... its the final coaching team list.

[BNS]

Dude.... its the final coaching team list.

Then he needs to change his Tweet! I saw several here mention it was the coaching staff announcement, I guess I figured he'd update Twitter once that was done.

[WoolMagnet]

Irsay getting killed on Mike and Mike this morning. They are coughing the word "hypocrite" when they read the news story on sportscenter. They also point out that he repeatedly said it's not a question of money and he had no problem paying both Manning and Luck and now he's making it contingent on money and setting Peyton up.

It wasn't a question of money to Irsay IF manning was healthy.

HE ISN'T.

I don't understand why these media yo-yo's don't get that.

I've lost alot of respect for M & M.

[WoolMagnet]

The apple (Jim) doesn't fall from the tree (Bob).

Now THAT was a mature statement!

[LUVTHESHOE]

Now THAT was a mature statement!

I was going to say a very uneducacted statement and very uncalled for to boot.But that would'nt be nice to say to a teen.

[WoolMagnet]

I was going to say a very uneducacted statement and very uncalled for to boot.But that would'nt be nice to say to a teen.

You give him too much credit.

If someone made a disrespectful comment like that about MY deceased father to me, they'd be drinking thru a straw for several months!

And that is if I gave them a break. I knocked someone out once for saying something bad about my deceased father. He won't even look in my direction now.

Bob Irsay is dead. Let him rest in peace!

[vitoaf27]

I'm glad others have made my point for me. (TY to bayone, jskinnz, and firejimcaldwell)

No beat down necessary.

BTW, I wasn't in any deep sleep. I was just reading critically.

Why do you always make sure to shoot down positive information regarding Manning that comes from "sources" yet NEVER shoot down negative information regarding Manning that comes from "sources?" Take for example the information regarding Manning willing to rework his contract according to "sources" and you shooting it down vs. the SI article which is according to "sources" and you saying nothing of the fact that it hasn't been confirmed.

I smell a hypocrite. I think you choose to read critically ONLY when it is positive news about Manning. That is sad.

[UndecidedFrog]

Why do you always make sure to shoot down positive information regarding Manning that comes from "sources" yet NEVER shoot down negative information regarding Manning that comes from "sources?" Take for example the information regarding Manning willing to rework his contract according to "sources" and you shooting it down vs. the SI article which is according to "sources" and you saying nothing of the fact that it hasn't been confirmed.

I smell a hypocrite. I think you choose to read critically ONLY when it is positive news about Manning. That is sad.

You are mistaken, I shoot down any information that is not substantiated, both positive and negative.

I have already said that the sources of the SI article could be lies.

From the information directly from Mr. Irsay and Peyton, I know the situation. From Mr. Irsay's most recent communication on what "healthy" and what "wants to be a Colt" means to him, I know that the Colts will not be paying the $28MM option bonus due March 8.