2017 O-line Construction

[Legend of Luck]

Hey guys, glad to be back after being away for a while.

 

I wanted to start a conversation about how best to construct the 2017 O-line.

 

We've spent so many draft picks on young O-line talent, some have hit, some have not. But, we can't afford to keep waiting for these young guys to develop. We need to start protecting Andrew and winning now.

 

With the left side of the line in tact, I think it's imperative that we sign a RG in free agency. Not only do we need an upgrade at that position, but the level of talent available in free agency is outstanding.

 

Possible Targets-

RG- Luke Joeckel, T.J. Lang, Chance Warmack, Ron Leary

 

These are just 4 of the available options, but getting any of those 4 would be an immediate boost. Joeckel and Warmack are only 25, Leary is 27, and Lang is 29. They could be long term solutions at guard for us.

 

Now, at RT, I'm not quite sure what the best move is. I feel like Haeg or Clark could take a step forward this year, and the pool of available free agents at RT isn't as deep as RG.

 

Possible Targets- Sebastian Vollmer, Andre Smith, Andrew Wintworth if he were to switch to RT from LT.

 

Most of the free agent options at RT are older. I wouldn't have a problem with signing a vet to a short deal, while Haeg and Clark develop.

 

But, overall, I don't think we should use any draft picks this year on the O-line. We need seasoned, talented guys to make an impact for us this year.

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions! Let's discuss! 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Austin Pasztor. The only fa linemen(his position) with a better grade after week 3 was Kevin Zeitler. Austin could probably be much cheaper. 

[BR-549]

IMO if the guard play (Rt) is improved, or given more veteran presence, it automatically improves the Rt tackle .... so yeah I would be all for it if one is available. 

[NewColtsFan]

 

I think the answers are on the team right now.

 

Of course,  none us of knows until we see what Ballard does in FA.

 

I suspect he'll rely heavily on Philbin.     What does Joe think about Haeg and Clark and Good....

 

If we don't sign a pricey guy then,  odds are,   we've got the guys on the team.    

 

But clearly if Ballard buys a starter level player then we know what Ballard and probably Philbin thinks too....

 

[Finball]

25 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Austin Pasztor. The only fa linemen(his position) with a better grade after week 3 was Kevin Zeitler. Austin could probably be much cheaper. 

 

He was that good, better than Ricky Wagner?

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Just now, Finball said:

 

He was that good, better than Ricky Wagner?

I'm not sure if it's G or T. But yeah after week 3, only Zeitler graded out better. 

[Finball]

16 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I'm not sure if it's G or T. But yeah after week 3, only Zeitler graded out better. 

 

Thanks, do you have a link or something to those grades or where did you get that?

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

Thanks, do you have a link or something to those grades or where did you get that?

Cheaahh

 (via http://ble.ac/teamstream-) http://teamstre.am/2lm1JQ8

[lollygagger8]

18 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

IMO if the guard play (Rt) is improved, or given more veteran presence, it automatically improves the Rt tackle .... so yeah I would be all for it if one is available. 

 

 I agree, but I think it's the other way around. 

 

If we have a stud RT, then the guard play will be better. 

[Finball]

16 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Cheaahh

 (via http://ble.ac/teamstream-) http://teamstre.am/2lm1JQ8

 

Thanks, very interesting. Browns have like 100M in cap space though, so not sure if he makes it to FA though.

 

He could be had for relatively cheap if Browns don't value him and let him walk as he's been legit starter for just one season.

[DarkHorse]

I bet we get a free agent guard and haeg will play right tackle

[Superman]

I agree. I want to lock down RG and let Haeg and Clark work at RT. Reitz and Good are still here for depth. 

 

And of course, better play calling. 

[BR-549]

33 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

 I agree, but I think it's the other way around. 

 

If we have a stud RT, then the guard play will be better. 

Yeah I think it works both ways.  I went with guard because they seem to be more available and usually don't have to worry about EDGE personnel and it might be a quicker fix.... Coin toss really so I guess I am agreeing with you, lol.

 

[richard pallo]

57 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Austin Pasztor. The only fa linemen(his position) with a better grade after week 3 was Kevin Zeitler. Austin could probably be much cheaper. 

I read that article too.  He is definitely under the radar and worth investigating.  I'm sure Ballard will. 

[richard pallo]

47 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I'm not sure if it's G or T. But yeah after week 3, only Zeitler graded out better. 

It was RT but the article said some GM's believe G is his best position. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

35 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

Thanks, very interesting. Browns have like 100M in cap space though, so not sure if he makes it to FA though.

 

He could be had for relatively cheap if Browns don't value him and let him walk as he's been legit starter for just one season.

 

They have 13 draft picks too, 2 of which are in the first round. They're going to go through a major overhaul at a lot of positions, so I wouldn't be surprised if some guys get cut loose that would instantly help a team like the Colts.

[BR-549]

7 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

They have 13 draft picks too, 2 of which are in the first round. They're going to go through a major overhaul at a lot of positions, so I wouldn't be surprised if some guys get cut loose that would instantly help a team like the Colts.

They cut McCown and Williams (DB) yesterday and even tho they signed Collins their cap jumped to $109M.  Kinda scary thinking about the possibilities given the cap space and 13 picks.  Very well could be a hard to handle team next year, and of course we play them.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, BR-549 said:

They cut McCown and Williams (DB) yesterday and even tho they signed Collins their cap jumped to $109M.  Kinda scary thinking about the possibilities given the cap space and 13 picks.  Very well could be a hard to handle team next year, and of course we play them.

 

Yep, and one of those picks is the first overall. Pretty much a guarantee that they'll take Myles Garrett with that pick. Ultimately they'll improve quite a bit from a talent standpoint, but I doubt they turn it completely around and win 11 games or something crazy. 6-8 wins is likely more realistic considering that they'll have a ton of roster turnover. Remember, last year the Jaguars had $90mil in cap, a great draft, but only won 3 games and ended up firing their coach during the season.

[BR-549]

4 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Yep, and one of those picks is the first overall. Pretty much a guarantee that they'll take Myles Garrett with that pick. Ultimately they'll improve quite a bit from a talent standpoint, but I doubt they turn it completely around and win 11 games or something crazy. 6-8 wins is likely more realistic considering that they'll have a ton of roster turnover. Remember, last year the Jaguars had $90mil in cap, a great draft, but only won 3 games and ended up firing their coach during the season.

 

And nearly beat us twice.  All true though.  

 

I have to contend with a Browns fan in my household (spouse) so I sure hope we at least stay ahead of their progress until we get ourselves straightened out.  They have some options or luxuries this off season that make me envious.

They are the Browns, however, so I don't think we have too much to worry about.

[Colt Overseas]

I think we sign a RG, although I'm not too high on Zeitler, wasn't Dalton the most sacked QB last year (at least the top 3). I think Marmock from the Titans is good. From hearing Ballard's interviews I think he will continue to build in the trenches. We still need a little more depth as Reitz, Good and Mewhort are quite injury prone.

 

I think this would be a good situation next year.

 

Costanzo (Reitz)

Mewhort (Harrison)

Kelly (Blythe)

Warmock (Good)

Clark (Haeg)

 

[theanarchist]

I think its pretty clear that Ballard understands that the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball is priority. Finally someone understands that. Whether it be FA and draft the OL still needs talent. I think the left side and C is set. Right side is still in flux and not sure that the picks that Grigson made last year are gonna be the answer. I look for Ballard to draft an impact defensive linemen or Rush LB in the first round. So, I think a vet free agent on the OL could be an option. I think Ballard is going to draft a young RB for the future fairly early this year.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

26 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

 

And nearly beat us twice.  All true though.  

 

I have to contend with a Browns fan in my household (spouse) so I sure hope we at least stay ahead of their progress until we get ourselves straightened out.  They have some options or luxuries this off season that make me envious.

They are the Browns, however, so I don't think we have too much to worry about.

 

That shouldn't come as that much of a surprise honestly. The motive behind the majority of their moves in free agency and the draft were centered around competing with the Colts.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 minutes ago, theanarchist said:

I think Ballard is going to draft a young RB for the future fairly early this year.

 

I just saw today that McShay released his first round mock on ESPN Insider and has Dalvin Cook to the Colts in the first round. I'd embed the tweet that I saw that in, but it's a fellow Colts fan, so naturally it was laced with profanity in reaction to the pick.

[theanarchist]

2 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I just saw today that McShay released his first round mock on ESPN Insider and has Dalvin Cook to the Colts in the first round. I'd embed the tweet that I saw that in, but it's a fellow Colts fan, so naturally it was laced with profanity in reaction to the pick.

lol I don't think he'll go RB in the first. 2nd or 3rd I wouldn't be surprised. I think an impact DL or LB will be his first selection.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

3 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I just saw today that McShay released his first round mock on ESPN Insider and has Dalvin Cook to the Colts in the first round. I'd embed the tweet that I saw that in, but it's a fellow Colts fan, so naturally it was laced with profanity in reaction to the pick.

Lol and for good reason. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

I'm anxious to see how Clark will look in training camp. And if Haeg got stronger(noticeably) I think he'd be a starting guard. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Just now, Majin Vegeta said:

Lol and for good reason. 

 

It's one of those picks that everyone would collectively hate... until Cook breaks a 60 yard TD run in week 1. Then we'd all be like "That's what this offense has been missing, a legitimate homerun threat at RB!!!"

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

It's one of those picks that everyone would collectively hate... until Cook breaks a 60 yard TD run in week 1. Then we'd all be like "That's what this offense has been missing, a legitimate homerun threat at RB!!!"

Then the opponent marches down the field in 30 seconds and scores the easiest game winning td again because the defense is trash haha.. the flashy run won't mean much then. 

*I'm so annoying with my HB hate posts and I apologize to everyone that has to read all of them.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Then the opponent marches down the field in 30 seconds and scores the easiest game winning td again because the defense is trash haha.. the flashy run won't mean much then. 

*I'm so annoying with my HB hate posts and I apologize to everyone that has to read all of them.

 

Well we do have more than just one draft pick LOL, and ~$50mil in cap, so it's not as if Cook would be the only offseason acquisition. But I know what you're saying.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 minute ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Well we do have more than just one draft pick LOL, and ~$50mil in cap, so it's not as if Cook would be the only offseason acquisition. But I know what you're saying.

Yeah I know I know. If Ballard hits on our 2nd and 3rd Rd picks on defense, I wouldn't be too sad about it. 

[Smonroe]

25 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

It's one of those picks that everyone would collectively hate... until Cook breaks a 60 yard TD run in week 1. Then we'd all be like "That's what this offense has been missing, a legitimate homerun threat at RB!!!"

 

One of the mocks on StampedeBlue had us taking McCaffery in the 2nd.  He most likely would be gone by then, but it would be a good pick.

 

I'm curious, does anyone here think we'd take Mixon in say the 3rd?  The Colts have stayed away from players with off the field issues in the past. 

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

One of the mocks on StampedeBlue had us taking McCaffery in the 2nd.  He most likely would be gone by then, but it would be a good pick.

 

I'm curious, does anyone here think we'd take Mixon in say the 3rd?  The Colts have stayed away from players with off the field issues in the past. 

 

Hard for me to see the Colts taking Mixon before the 4th.

 

Grigson always publicly said "no knucleheads until AFTER the 4th round."

 

I don't see Irsay allowing Ballard to take the kid before R4.       But I think he might budge a little from the 5th round to the 4th.      An exception to the rule, if you will.

 

Personally,   I think a team like NE could take Mixon on Day 2,  or Cleveland could with all their extra picks and loyal fan base.        A team like Houston who needs a tougher runner than Miller.      A team like Seattle, which has a long history of taking troubled players and blending them in.   

 

Too many other teams willing to take the risk that the Colts won't.....

 

[Smonroe]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Hard for me to see the Colts taking Mixon before the 4th.

 

Grigson always publicly said "no knucleheads until AFTER the 4th round."

 

I don't see Irsay allowing Ballard to take the kid before R4.       But I think he might budge a little from the 5th round to the 4th.      An exception to the rule, if you will.

 

Personally,   I think a team like NE could take Mixon on Day 2,  or Cleveland could with all their extra picks and loyal fan base.        A team like Houston who needs a tougher runner than Miller.      A team like Seattle, which has a long history of taking troubled players and blending them in.   

 

Too many other teams willing to take the risk that the Colts won't.....

 

 

Just saw this article:  https://sports.yahoo.com/news/could-joe-mixon-play-colts-203853599.html

 

Interesting part:  "New general manager Chris Ballard has been known to take risks on players with questionable pasts. Remember, Ballard helped draft Tyreke Hill and Marcus Peters in Kansas City. Both of whom has big off the field problems that hurt their draft status. Both have been Pro Bowl players since entering the league."

 

Mixon isn't invited to the combine, for what that's worth.  Personally, I feel what he did was beyond repugnant and there's no excusing it.  But was it an isolated incident and not a pattern?  How long should a person pay for it, are they marked for life?

[Steamboat_Shaun]

3 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Just saw this article:  https://sports.yahoo.com/news/could-joe-mixon-play-colts-203853599.html

 

Interesting part:  "New general manager Chris Ballard has been known to take risks on players with questionable pasts. Remember, Ballard helped draft Tyreke Hill and Marcus Peters in Kansas City. Both of whom has big off the field problems that hurt their draft status. Both have been Pro Bowl players since entering the league."

 

Mixon isn't invited to the combine, for what that's worth.  Personally, I feel what he did was beyond repugnant and there's no excusing it.  But was it an isolated incident and not a pattern?  How long should a person pay for it, are they marked for life?

 

I think considering that it's his first draft as a rookie GM, he'll likely do things by the book so as not to rock the boat. If he does take any risks, it would probably be in the later rounds, similar to the Chiefs taking Hill in the 5th.

 

But at the same time, he could totally prove me wrong and take Tim Williams in the first round, Joe Mixon in the second, etc.

[MacDee1975]

9 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Just saw this article:  https://sports.yahoo.com/news/could-joe-mixon-play-colts-203853599.html

 

Interesting part:  "New general manager Chris Ballard has been known to take risks on players with questionable pasts. Remember, Ballard helped draft Tyreke Hill and Marcus Peters in Kansas City. Both of whom has big off the field problems that hurt their draft status. Both have been Pro Bowl players since entering the league."

 

Mixon isn't invited to the combine, for what that's worth.  Personally, I feel what he did was beyond repugnant and there's no excusing it.  But was it an isolated incident and not a pattern?  How long should a person pay for it, are they marked for life?

 

For most teams, right up until draft time, I would imagine.

[NannyMcafee]

43 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Then the opponent marches down the field in 30 seconds and scores the easiest game winning td again because the defense is trash haha.. the flashy run won't mean much then. 

*I'm so annoying with my HB hate posts and I apologize to everyone that has to read all of them.

 

Youre not annoying. The RB fetish on here is though. 

[Track Guy]

My assessment - for what it's worth is this. We have a bunch of young guys on the roster, and presumably we'll be starting 2 guys on their rookie contracts for the next few years. We can afford to pay out a decent chunk of change at this position for the next few years.

 

Look at the following guys under contract:

 

Castonzo: signed through 2019. Should remain our starting LT.

Mewhort: signed through 2017. I'd like to see him get a 2 extension at 7 - 8 mil per year. I would say longer except for the concern over his knee condition. Should remain our starting LG. Finishing his rookie contract.

Kelly: option through 2020. Lockdown at C. Rookie contract.

Clark: signed through 2019. Leading option for RT. Rookie contract.

Haeg: signed through 2019. I like him best as a versatile 6th O-lineman - you really need these kind of guys. Rookie contract.

Good: signed through 2018. Decent depth guy at G, I'd prefer that to be his role for the next couple seasons. Rookie contract.

Reitz: signed through 2017. Versatile backup - I'd have him play out his contract but he's not really the future.

Blythe: signed through 2019. The backup center role is his ceiling really, but I'm fine with him being penciled in there for now. Rookie contract.

 

If we could land Kevin Zeitler, I think we can afford the 10 - 11 mil per year he will command. We're riding pretty cheap on the O-line right now, and will be through 2019. Even if we're paying out 18 mil per year at the guard position through 2019 (which is a lot) we're paying low numbers at RT and C. We'll get a chance to reevaluate at 2019 who to re-sign and who not to out of the guys who are up: Mewhort, Castonzo, Clark, and Haeg. Sure we might lose 1 or 2 of them at that point - but for the next 3 years we would have great continuity and plenty of talent on the line. Imagine:

 

Castonzo - Mewhort - Kelly - Zeitler - Clark

 

Haeg as the 6th O-lineman.

 

Protect 12 and run the football well!

[NewColtsFan]

25 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Just saw this article:  https://sports.yahoo.com/news/could-joe-mixon-play-colts-203853599.html

 

Interesting part:  "New general manager Chris Ballard has been known to take risks on players with questionable pasts. Remember, Ballard helped draft Tyreke Hill and Marcus Peters in Kansas City. Both of whom has big off the field problems that hurt their draft status. Both have been Pro Bowl players since entering the league."

 

Mixon isn't invited to the combine, for what that's worth.  Personally, I feel what he did was beyond repugnant and there's no excusing it.  But was it an isolated incident and not a pattern?  How long should a person pay for it, are they marked for life?

 

Good points.     Hill was taken in the 5th round.     Good call on Peters.  

 

But it's not Ballard that worries me.....     it's Irsay.      So, no matter what Ballard wants to do,  I'm not sure Irsay will give his blessing to a pick that feels too high.       Lower the round,  lower the profile.   

 

Late Add:    By the way,  good find on the article!    Thanks!      

[Steamboat_Shaun]

12 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Youre not annoying. The RB fetish on here is though. 

 

It's pretty easy to fetishize over players like Leonard Fournette & Dalvin Cook when our 2 options at RB right now are a 34 year old Frank Gore, & Robert Turbin.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 minute ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

It's pretty easy to fetishize over players like Leonard Fournette & Dalvin Cook when our 2 options at RB right now are a 34 year old Frank Gore, & Robert Turbin.

Turbin scored 8 tds last year and Gore honestly didn't look bad. But the defense did, it looked bad and statistically it was bad too.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/19738/colts-need-to-address-defense-not-select-a-running-back-in-first-round-of-draft