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2017 Cap Space and FA's


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After looking at the math for our cap space next year we should have just under 65M in cap space for the year, and not many of our own to sign that would be big money signings. The 65M takes into account cutting Jackson and Jones, which I cannot see how they keep either, although Jones may do like he did this year and rework his contract. No way he is worth a 7.5M hit on the cap next year. There are other players I can see cutting, which would save cap space, but I went with the most obvious to me.

 

Now I know there are positions on the defensive side I would love to fill with quality, and I would really like the to go after Zeitler. He could be a key to making the line almost stable, plus I think all the young guys will grow over the off season. You cannot expect lineman coming from college to excel in their 1st year (although you can hope) since so many are handicapped by their college systems and what they learn. Kelly was different though due to Alabama's pro style, and I really liked how he has played this year, even with a shoulder injury. We have our center of the future!

 

The one problem I do see is we need quality, not quantity which will come in the draft on the defensive side. Quality means big contracts, and if you thought last off season was ridiculous on what was paid out to what I thought were some mediocre players, this year may make our head spin. The problem is going to be other teams with huge amounts of cap space, and will know they need to offer large contracts to get players they target. The Browns have 110M in cap space in 2017. The 49ers have 100M if they release Kaepernick, which I believe they will. Tennessee is going to have 70M, although I am sure they are getting to the point they need to start resigning their own talent, and I did not look at their FA's. I did not look any further, but you get my point. If you want a certain player, you are going to have to overpay. There are only so many FA's who are considered top tier, and each team knows who they are!

 

As always there are teams in cap hell, but I have never seen so much cap space for any team. I know Cleveland and SF cleaned house, but how with all that cap space are they not below the cap spending threshold in the CBA? I have not checked for all teams, but there is more cap space than good FA's that will be available.

So the question is do you overpay to get the player you want?

 

In the Colts case, for a player like Zeitler, I would say yes. He is proven, and we have not had a RG for so long. As I said, you add him in, and we are only missing a tackle to become a pretty decent OL as long as the young guys evolve. I can argue about Castanzo, should we move him, but this is not the thread.

 

The rest of FA I think you need to go on a case by case basis because players who come from FA usually have excelled because they were in the right system to fit their talent, and teams who had them understood their strengths and played to them. The one area this does not come into play as much is OL, but you need to look at who is playing next to them, since this enhances how good they look.

 

So I am open to any ideas and if they would be worth opening the purse strings, or are we going to be stingy again even though we have so much cap space. I don't know if Grigson will be back (please let him go) and if he is it tends to skew what we will do. He tends to prefer quantity over quality, and still over pays. The over pay this year is just a condition of the cap space available. Let the discussion begin!

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All we need to bring back is Walden, Doyle, and Butler maybe. We need to sign 2-3 big time players, and a 1-2 really good players and we have the cap room to make it happen. We need to bring in one of Nick Perry, Chandler Jones, Melvin Ingram. Perry and Ingram should hit the open market. We need to sign one of Stephon Gilmore, Trumaine Johnson, AJ Bouye, Morris Claiborne, or Dre Kirkpatrick. Then maybe a guard like Leary or Zeitler. Then maybe an ILB like Collins, Hightower, or Brown. I think our D-Line will be good with Anderson and Langford being back 100%, and Ridgeway's development from his rookie to his 2nd season. Ridgeway could be a beast for us next year. But we could use a NT and if Poe hit the market we should go all in on him.  Our main needs are double digit sack EDGE rusher, ILB with coverage skills, and a really good cover corner to pair with Vontae.

 

Re-Sign

Erik Walden

Darius Butler

Jack Doyle

 

Nick Perry

AJ Bouye

Jamie Collins

 

That would be a heck of a free agency. Then grab an EDGE rusher like Tim Williams in the 1st, and an all around ILB in the 2nd, and a RB or another EDGE rusher in the 3rd. We need to come out of the draft with 2......TWO stud EDGE rushers. We need a Danielle Hunter in the 3rd round. Its a deep class. We just have to find the talent.

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4 hours ago, loudnproudcolt said:

If you want a certain player, you are going to have to overpay. 

 

You hit on a lot of good points, but this is it. Lots of money is going to be spent this offseason, and some of these contracts are going to be ridiculous. 

 

You can't build your roster through free agency, but you can supplement it with smart moves. Sometimes that means dropping a lot of money on one guy. The Pats usually don't spend big, but they took a big swing at Revis a couple years ago, and it paid off. 

 

So if there's one guy that you can grab this offseason, even if you have to give him a stupid contract, the Colts should make that move this year. And while I would love to have a great RG for a change, I don't think the impact would justify a $10-12m/year guy at that position. Value above replacement says you look at the difference between an average RG and a great one, and consider whether the great player is worth that much to your team. I think that's an inefficient position to drop major money on. I do think we need veteran depth on the OL.

 

If it were up to me, I'd be looking for an impact defensive player, preferably in the front 7. I don't think there's an edge rusher available this year that will warrant a huge contract -- I wouldn't want to give Chandler Jones $15m/year.

 

I'd look at Kawann Short. He would improve the run defense and provide interior pass rush, and that would boost the entire defense. 

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43 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You hit on a lot of good points, but this is it. Lots of money is going to be spent this offseason, and some of these contracts are going to be ridiculous. 

 

You can't build your roster through free agency, but you can supplement it with smart moves. Sometimes that means dropping a lot of money on one guy. The Pats usually don't spend big, but they took a big swing at Revis a couple years ago, and it paid off. 

 

So if there's one guy that you can grab this offseason, even if you have to give him a stupid contract, the Colts should make that move this year. And while I would love to have a great RG for a change, I don't think the impact would justify a $10-12m/year guy at that position. Value above replacement says you look at the difference between an average RG and a great one, and consider whether the great player is worth that much to your team. I think that's an inefficient position to drop major money on. I do think we need veteran depth on the OL.

 

If it were up to me, I'd be looking for an impact defensive player, preferably in the front 7. I don't think there's an edge rusher available this year that will warrant a huge contract -- I wouldn't want to give Chandler Jones $15m/year.

 

I'd look at Kawann Short. He would improve the run defense and provide interior pass rush, and that would boost the entire defense. 

 

For me I'd want to bring in Donta Hightower as my impact front 7 defender. I think we have a player that could be similar to Short, and that is Ridgeway. And LB is a much bigger need over DL at this point. Hightower would take the place of D'Qwell, and is a much better and younger player at this point. Hightower would also bring pressure from the inside as a blitzer, and is a force against the run. Plus we weaken New England.

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10 hours ago, BProland85 said:

 

For me I'd want to bring in Donta Hightower as my impact front 7 defender. I think we have a player that could be similar to Short, and that is Ridgeway. And LB is a much bigger need over DL at this point. Hightower would take the place of D'Qwell, and is a much better and younger player at this point. Hightower would also bring pressure from the inside as a blitzer, and is a force against the run. Plus we weaken New England.

They will keep him for sure they got rid of Collins 

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I can't see us going for an expensive signing at RG.  i think they will find our Ol from the players we have now.  The young players are doing great and in the second year they should be even better.  I think they will go after LB or ER and spend the money.  If Cleveland has that much cap they should resign Collins.  Who knows what the Patriots will do with Hightower.  It's a toss up I think.   I would expect Jones to stay with the Cardinals after all they traded for him but again you never know.   If he breaks free I would go after him and pay. They might be willing to trade him again and that would be worth exploring.  The one player that I think has a chance to hit FA is Melvin Ingram of the Chargers. He is young and I think would be an excellent fit for us.  Any of these players would instantly upgrade our defense.   I am keeping my fingers crossed that we find a way to get one of them. 

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20 hours ago, Superman said:

 

You hit on a lot of good points, but this is it. Lots of money is going to be spent this offseason, and some of these contracts are going to be ridiculous. 

 

You can't build your roster through free agency, but you can supplement it with smart moves. Sometimes that means dropping a lot of money on one guy. The Pats usually don't spend big, but they took a big swing at Revis a couple years ago, and it paid off. 

 

So if there's one guy that you can grab this offseason, even if you have to give him a stupid contract, the Colts should make that move this year. And while I would love to have a great RG for a change, I don't think the impact would justify a $10-12m/year guy at that position. Value above replacement says you look at the difference between an average RG and a great one, and consider whether the great player is worth that much to your team. I think that's an inefficient position to drop major money on. I do think we need veteran depth on the OL.

 

If it were up to me, I'd be looking for an impact defensive player, preferably in the front 7. I don't think there's an edge rusher available this year that will warrant a huge contract -- I wouldn't want to give Chandler Jones $15m/year.

 

I'd look at Kawann Short. He would improve the run defense and provide interior pass rush, and that would boost the entire defense. 

I agree that Zeitler would be a difficult choice at RG for what you would have to pay, but like Center we finally bit the bullet because how bad the position had been for so long after Saturday. That paid off, but it was the draft. Over paying as I said will be the hallmark of FA this off season, and I agree it is not the way to build a team. Oakland did a nice job in filling in important positions with high quality acquisitions. They overpaid, but they knew they were getting quality. Osemile changed that line.

If we can attract a known commodity who could help the defense, I would be happy to over pay for services like that. Like I said though, the problem with FA is two fold. Overpaying but I believe the other can be more devastating. Many FA's do not work out because they were good in the system they came from. This is why I advocated Zeitler. CB's are another position who are not quite as system dependent, but press corner is very different than zone. I don't know if Kirkpatrick or Gilmore play press, and Gilmore has been toasted more than a marshmallow at a camp out this year. Johnson is the one CB I would be willing to spend money on.

 

So if we have the choice, do we over pay, or should we stick that money in our sock for 2018? At some point you become the Browns. I can't remember a time through this whole CBA where they have not had huge cap money. I want us to make some quality acquisitions!

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2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I can't see us going for an expensive signing at RG.  i think they will find our Ol from the players we have now.  The young players are doing great and in the second year they should be even better.  I think they will go after LB or ER and spend the money.  If Cleveland has that much cap they should resign Collins.  Who knows what the Patriots will do with Hightower.  It's a toss up I think.   I would expect Jones to stay with the Cardinals after all they traded for him but again you never know.   If he breaks free I would go after him and pay. They might be willing to trade him again and that would be worth exploring.  The one player that I think has a chance to hit FA is Melvin Ingram of the Chargers. He is young and I think would be an excellent fit for us.  Any of these players would instantly upgrade our defense.   I am keeping my fingers crossed that we find a way to get one of them. 

I agree the young guys are doing well, and I believe the OL is going to make a huge leap next year, so I can live out Zeitler.

I agree fully as I have stated FA is not the way to build a team. The one positional player which most have mentioned who I would love to have is Hightower. He would be worth the money, and would instantly make our LB core so much better. NE will not pay him big money, but at the position he plays, I don't know if it is possible they franchise him or not.

 

 

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21 hours ago, BProland85 said:

 

For me I'd want to bring in Donta Hightower as my impact front 7 defender. I think we have a player that could be similar to Short, and that is Ridgeway. And LB is a much bigger need over DL at this point. Hightower would take the place of D'Qwell, and is a much better and younger player at this point. Hightower would also bring pressure from the inside as a blitzer, and is a force against the run. Plus we weaken New England.

 

I like rangy, athletic linebackers who can hold up in man coverage. So I'm not a fan of Dont'a Hightower. What you say about him is true, he has his positives, but we need that rangy Will backer, not another straight line Mike. 

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6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I like rangy, athletic linebackers who can hold up in man coverage. So I'm not a fan of Dont'a Hightower. What you say about him is true, he has his positives, but we need that rangy Will backer, not another straight line Mike. 

I've never bought the hype on Hightower, and still don't...but when Belichick jettisoned Collins, whom I think is a more valuable player....that made me wonder what I'm missing about Hightower.

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11 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

I've never bought the hype on Hightower, and still don't...but when Belichick jettisoned Collins, whom I think is a more valuable player....that made me wonder what I'm missing about Hightower.

 

To me, the Collins trade was mostly about them not planning to re-sign him. Hightower is good enough for them, and they probably plan to offer him a contract at the end of the year. 

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2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

To me, the Collins trade was mostly about them not planning to re-sign him. Hightower is good enough for them, and they probably plan to offer him a contract at the end of the year. 

Completely agree, which leads to the conclusion that they value Hightower more...and that makes me wonder why I don't see him as anything special. 

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9 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Completely agree, which leads to the conclusion that they value Hightower more...and that makes me wonder why I don't see him as anything special. 

 

My conclusion isn't that they value him more, it's that they would rather re-sign him at his projected number than Collins at his projected number. 

 

He fits their defense well at that Mike role. And while he's not awful in coverage, especially for his size, they don't expose him either. His intangibles also seem more positive than Collins'. So if he gets $7m/year, but they expect Collins to ask for $10m/year, they'd rather have Hightower. That's my thinking. 

 

I definitely think Collins is better.

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21 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

My conclusion isn't that they value him more, it's that they would rather re-sign him at his projected number than Collins at his projected number. 

 

He fits their defense well at that Mike role. And while he's not awful in coverage, especially for his size, they don't expose him either. His intangibles also seem more positive than Collins'. So if he gets $7m/year, but they expect Collins to ask for $10m/year, they'd rather have Hightower. That's my thinking. 

 

I definitely think Collins is better.

Ya, that makes sense.  Will be curious if they pay a larger premium than that to keep Hightower, and it's an interesting sequence of tradeoff decision-making to follow.  

 

I favor keeping difference makers at the premium they command, but hard to argue with the greatest coach of all time, cheater or not.

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The big FA I really want this year would be Kevin Zeitler. Although, since Cincy lost Andre Smith last year and Andrew Whitworth is 900 years old, I cant see them letting him walk. He's a big reason their running game is so monstrous.

 

There are others but they all have red flags or would not be worth the money it would take to snag them.

Leveon Bell - Wants ridiculous money and has had PED suspensions last 2 years.

Jamie Collins - Versatile but traded by the Pats due to performance against the run.

Dont'a Hightower - Would be a more expensive version of DQ. ILB that cant cover.

 

If Zeitler is there, I want him badly. But I'm not banking on it. Would also like to take a look at Dontari Poe as well if happens to hit the market.

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On 12/19/2016 at 8:04 PM, Superman said:

 

You hit on a lot of good points, but this is it. Lots of money is going to be spent this offseason, and some of these contracts are going to be ridiculous. 

 

You can't build your roster through free agency, but you can supplement it with smart moves. Sometimes that means dropping a lot of money on one guy. The Pats usually don't spend big, but they took a big swing at Revis a couple years ago, and it paid off. 

 

So if there's one guy that you can grab this offseason, even if you have to give him a stupid contract, the Colts should make that move this year. And while I would love to have a great RG for a change, I don't think the impact would justify a $10-12m/year guy at that position. Value above replacement says you look at the difference between an average RG and a great one, and consider whether the great player is worth that much to your team. I think that's an inefficient position to drop major money on. I do think we need veteran depth on the OL.

 

If it were up to me, I'd be looking for an impact defensive player, preferably in the front 7. I don't think there's an edge rusher available this year that will warrant a huge contract -- I wouldn't want to give Chandler Jones $15m/year.

 

I'd look at Kawann Short. He would improve the run defense and provide interior pass rush, and that would boost the entire defense. 

 

Ehh I don't think the Pats took too much of a risk on Revis though.  If I remember right he got a 1 year deal with an option for 1 year after that for crazy money.  (Basically something written into the contract so Revis couldn't be franchised.)

 

So this wasn't like a multi-year deal with a ton of guaranteed money. 

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1 hour ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Ehh I don't think the Pats took too much of a risk on Revis though.  If I remember right he got a 1 year deal with an option for 1 year after that for crazy money.  (Basically something written into the contract so Revis couldn't be franchised.)

 

So this wasn't like a multi-year deal with a ton of guaranteed money. 

 

Still a big swing. They gave him $12m for one year, and he played well. The next two years, he's gotten steadily worse. It was a close call for them, IMO. 

 

Either way, you sink that kind of money into a player, even for one year, you're assuming he's a difference maker for you. 

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16 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Still a big swing. They gave him $12m for one year, and he played well. The next two years, he's gotten steadily worse. It was a close call for them, IMO. 

 

Either way, you sink that kind of money into a player, even for one year, you're assuming he's a difference maker for you. 

I would agree and say the possibility for him getting hurt and spending that type of money is definitely a gamble.  It worked out for them but not the Jets for the second go around.

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On December 19, 2016 at 3:35 PM, loudnproudcolt said:

After looking at the math for our cap space next year we should have just under 65M in cap space for the year, and not many of our own to sign that would be big money signings. The 65M takes into account cutting Jackson and Jones, which I cannot see how they keep either, although Jones may do like he did this year and rework his contract. No way he is worth a 7.5M hit on the cap next year. There are other players I can see cutting, which would save cap space, but I went with the most obvious to me.

 

Now I know there are positions on the defensive side I would love to fill with quality, and I would really like the to go after Zeitler. He could be a key to making the line almost stable, plus I think all the young guys will grow over the off season. You cannot expect lineman coming from college to excel in their 1st year (although you can hope) since so many are handicapped by their college systems and what they learn. Kelly was different though due to Alabama's pro style, and I really liked how he has played this year, even with a shoulder injury. We have our center of the future!

 

The one problem I do see is we need quality, not quantity which will come in the draft on the defensive side. Quality means big contracts, and if you thought last off season was ridiculous on what was paid out to what I thought were some mediocre players, this year may make our head spin. The problem is going to be other teams with huge amounts of cap space, and will know they need to offer large contracts to get players they target. The Browns have 110M in cap space in 2017. The 49ers have 100M if they release Kaepernick, which I believe they will. Tennessee is going to have 70M, although I am sure they are getting to the point they need to start resigning their own talent, and I did not look at their FA's. I did not look any further, but you get my point. If you want a certain player, you are going to have to overpay. There are only so many FA's who are considered top tier, and each team knows who they are!

 

As always there are teams in cap hell, but I have never seen so much cap space for any team. I know Cleveland and SF cleaned house, but how with all that cap space are they not below the cap spending threshold in the CBA? I have not checked for all teams, but there is more cap space than good FA's that will be available.

So the question is do you overpay to get the player you want?

 

In the Colts case, for a player like Zeitler, I would say yes. He is proven, and we have not had a RG for so long. As I said, you add him in, and we are only missing a tackle to become a pretty decent OL as long as the young guys evolve. I can argue about Castanzo, should we move him, but this is not the thread.

 

The rest of FA I think you need to go on a case by case basis because players who come from FA usually have excelled because they were in the right system to fit their talent, and teams who had them understood their strengths and played to them. The one area this does not come into play as much is OL, but you need to look at who is playing next to them, since this enhances how good they look.

 

So I am open to any ideas and if they would be worth opening the purse strings, or are we going to be stingy again even though we have so much cap space. I don't know if Grigson will be back (please let him go) and if he is it tends to skew what we will do. He tends to prefer quantity over quality, and still over pays. The over pay this year is just a condition of the cap space available. Let the discussion begin!

 

Many really good thoughts here.  The first couple of days will be hugely expensive for any team that wants to be a player in the market.

 

But your one wish in Zeitler is a long-shot to me. I can't see the Colts investing big dollars into a FA guard.  In fact I would be shocked if they did.  If they use any resources on Oline my guess it is in the draft with a prospect they really like.  I think we saw the 2017 opening day o'line last week (minus Mewhort) with Haeg and Clark making up the right side.  

 

I think the FA investments they make will be on the defensive side.  

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I'd bring back Walden and Cole and have them rotate at SSLB.   Both are good against the run and can make some pressure on the QB once in a while.

 

Have that position nailed down and focus our draft and FA additions on the other three LB spots and CB.

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I would look to re-sign Darius Butler (as a safety), Robert Turbin, and Jack Doyle.

 

The rest I would likely let walk.

 

I'm probably in the minority but I would look to move on from Erik Walden. This very well could be a career year for him but he is 31 years old. Some of this does depend on the contract he would command but I wouldn't want him on any deal that he couldn't be easily cut after just one season. His best days are likely in the past for a guy who isn't a difference maker to begin with.

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We need so much help on defense I can't imagine that isn't where we spend our offseason money there. With no real leaders on that side of the ball with Mathis, Dq, and Adams likely gone I think they bring in a vet or two to lead a glut of draft picks we might bring in. No doubt we have to over pay for FA but I think we will for the right guy or two. The FA landscape will look VASTLY different after the season then it does now. Teams will have cap casualties and you will see a few guys you wouldn't expect on the market...hopefully ones with some good juice in the tank and a chip on their shoulder. Like Supes I want rangy athletic LBs...thumpers are nice but we may have a couple of those already....versatile lbs that can cover, tackle sideline to sideline and even be effective blitzing is my dream. Draft is pretty deep at corner so hopefully we can find a rusher early and then help the backers and corners later with multiple bites at the apple like we did with our lineman last year.

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Long Post...... but I love the Fanspeak.com simulator.... even though the actual low end roster guys aren't u p to date, their cap numbers are similar to guys we have in their spots currently

 

Not seemingly realistic for FA, but hey, the numbers worked at least...lol

 

SUMMARY AFTER FREE AGENCY
team-helmets-colts.png 
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS
 
Salary Cap: 155,000,000
Player Salaries: 131,991,040
Dead Money: 757,144
 
Carryover: 8,560,544
Reserved for Draft Picks: 5,000,000
Cap Space Remaining: 25,812,360
 
ROSTER
SIGNED PLAYERS
Name Position Cap Hit
Robert Turbin RB 1,000,000
Jack Doyle TE 2,800,000
Darius Butler CB 1,000,000
Arthur Jones DL 900,000
Pierre Garcon WR 3,850,000
Melvin Ingram EDGE 6,000,000
Darren McFadden RB 2,250,000
Chandler Jones EDGE 6,050,000
Stephon Gilmore CB 5,600,000

 

ACTIONS
CUT

Name

Position
D\'Qwell Jackson LB
Frank Gore RB
   
Arthur Jones DL
   
MY PICKS
14: R1P14
 
EDGE TIM WILLIAMS
ALABAMA
46: R2P14
 
LB JARRAD DAVIS
FLORIDA
78: R3P14
 
CB CAMERON SUTTON
TENNESSEE
117: R4P14
 
WR CURTIS SAMUEL
OHIO STATE
141: R4P38
 
RB ELIJAH MCGUIRE
UL LAFAYETTE
156: R5P14
 
WR SIMMIE COBBS JR.
INDIANA
193: R6P14
CB CHANNING STRIBLING
MICHIGAN

 

 

FINAL ROSTER
Name Position Cap Hit
Pat McAfee P 2,950,000
Donte Moncrief WR 840,880
Jack Mewhort G 1,137,117
Kevin Graf OT 615,000
Matt Overton LS 900,000
Joe Reitz G 2,500,000
Kendall Langford DL 4,250,000
Phillip Dorsett WR 2,218,748
Clayton Geathers S 748,482
David Parry DL 670,002
Denzell Goode OT 628,196
Ricky Lumpkin OT 690,000
Tevin Mitchel CB 540,000
Junior Sylvestre LB 542,668
T.Y. McGill DL 615,000
Henry Anderson DL 782,919
Kitt O\'Brien G 540,000
TY Hilton WR 10,000,000
Anthony Castonzo OT 12,800,000
Vontae Davis CB 10,250,000
Dezmen Southward S 690,000
Dwayne Allen TE 6,000,000
Adam Vinatieri K 2,750,000
Scott Tolzien QB 2,000,000
Patrick Robinson CB 4,500,000
Ryan Kelly C 2,375,224
T.J. Green S 947,100
Le'Raven Clark OT 746,433
Hassan Ridgeway DL 680,056
Josh Ferguson RB 543,333
Ron Thompson Jr. EDGE 545,000
Darius White CB 540,000
Andrew Williamson S 540,000
Winston Rose CB 540,000
Antonio Morrison LB 669,977
Joe Haeg OT 600,603
Austin Blythe C 555,497
Jeremy Vujnovich OT 540,000
Andrew Luck QB 19,400,000
Robert Turbin RB 1,000,000
Jack Doyle TE 2,800,000
Darius Butler CB 1,000,000
Arthur Jones DL 900,000
Pierre Garcon WR 3,850,000
Melvin Ingram EDGE 6,000,000
Darren McFadden RB 2,250,000
Chandler Jones EDGE 6,050,000
Stephon Gilmore CB 5,600,000
Tim Williams EDGE Pending
Jarrad Davis LB Pending
Cameron Sutton CB Pending
Curtis Samuel WR Pending
Elijah McGuire RB Pending
Simmie Cobbs Jr. WR Pending
Channing Stribling CB Pending
 

 

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