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2016-2017 Indiana Pacers season (and the rest of the NBA)


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45 minutes ago, Synthetic said:

 

 

Do you even listen to Steven A Smith? He's the one on ESPN who flat out says Jordan is the best ever, and it's "blasphemous" to suggest anything else. I'm not convinced you actually listen to him....

 

Here is a video to prove my point. Here is "the media" you claim just looooooooooves LeBron and gives no respect to precious MJ! Listen how offended Steven A Smith gets and how crazy these people act over a suggestion that LeBron could be the GOAT.

 

 

 

 

 

Key point here, SECOND to Jordan. That isn't good enough for you though, here you are admitting that they don't think he's the GOAT, they say he's second place...So yeah, you are full of it. If that's what you're upset about, wow...You go on and on and on about this though. You say you don't care, but for someone that supposedly don't care about someone else's opinions, you sure do go off ranting and fret about it quite often. You sure spent quite a lot of time lecturing me over it. Any time I or someone else praise LeBron James, you show up with that same tired argument you go in circles with which is "yeah he's good, but here's my list of players who are way better and he'll never be close to them unless he gets more rings!!" 

 

Everyone can easily blame "the media" on things they don't like. Next time, actually post links, instead of "well I heard this...", cause I can name a lot of people in the media who flat out hate LeBron James and I can't believe you even suggest Steven A Smith would praise him over MJ as the GOAT, cause it's so easy to pull videos of him ranting off about how Jordan is the greatest player ever. Do a quick search for 'Steven A Smith, Michael Jordan' on Youtube, and look at the number of videos that pop up. "The media" isn't in love with LeBron James, no matter how many times you claim they are. Go check out Skip Bayless, you would enjoy him since all he ever does is rant about LeBron when he isn't bashing Aaron Rodgers. Go check his Twitter feed, it's nothing but LeBron bashing, you'll enjoy it. 

 

But being called "second to Jordan" isn't good enough, obviously. Cause when someone says he's the second best or one of the best, you break out your list and go of on and on in your wild rants about how LeBron will never be good enough. I have to wonder, did LeBron set your house on fire or do something to you a long time ago? Cause you sure do go off on him like it's a personal vendetta. You just flat out said it - he's not even top 5, therefore anyone who suggests he's great, you have to give them a lecture about how crazy they are to suggest a thing. Most of the time, you use that ring argument (which is hilarious since you get offended if someone uses it against NFL quarterbacks)  I never see you ever mention past players unless you're bashing LeBron James, it's the "yeah he's good, but let me tell you why X, Y, and Z are so much better and they got more rings." 

 

Since you love that ring argument so much, ever heard of a guy named Robert Horry? He has 7 rings, one more than MJ and he's not even in the Hall of Fame. So I guess by that logic, he's better than most, huh? Derek Fisher also has 5 rings but he never gets put in those silly lists either and probably won't even get his number retired in L.A. if they draft Lonzo Ball. Scottie Pippen also has 6 rings, and is probably the best player of the 90's who never gets praise in the same sentence MJ's name is used. 

 

You constantly accuse me of saying LeBron is the GOAT just cause I say he's among the best ever. Since you told me a while back to "check the archives' maybe, you should...See if you can quote me calling him the GOAT. I called him one of them, and for the record; not far off from where most others praise him. The guy I said who probably is the hands down GOAT in my book was Wilt Chamberlain, that's just my opinion after reading several books on Wilt and having studied his contributions to the game. I've also told you before many times from my perspective; I don't think it's fair to judge past NBA players to current ones cause each era has specific rule changes that altered the game and it's unfair to judge them freely without taking that into consideration. For example; Wilt played in an era before there was a 3 point line and the lane was smaller (the lane was changed specifically because of him), that's just how I view things from my opinion. 

 

It's why I refuse to engage with you anymore. You don't want to debate...You want someone to agree with you. And you make it almost political with how it's "the media" to blame, or "LeBron fans" or "Cavs fans" who disagree with you (I guess everyone who disagrees must be a LeBron fan!). It's a "me vs them" mentality with you, which makes debating extremely uncomfortable since it's a personalized angle.

 

 

For the record; LeBron James has NOTHING left to prove anymore. If you still hate him after his accomplishment last year, than I don't expect that to change regardless what he accomplishes in the future. He fulfilled his promise to deliver a championship to Cleveland and did it under the circumstances of coming back from a 3-1 deficit. Not only did LeBron prove everyone wrong last year, he proved naysayers such as myself wrong, who said he should've stayed in Miami. If that's not good enough, then nothing is.

 

No, he don't have to beat the Warriors again. He's already done that...If what he did last year wasn't enough for certain people to respect him, than nothing will. I'm sure if he loses, you'll be quick to call him a "choker" against a historically favored loaded Warriors team, who even have Kevin Durant who isn't even one of their top 3 best players (oh the irony; LeBron forms a super team he's the villain. Durant goes to a team who won 73 games to ride their coattails and that's fine). For most, it's done and over with. LeBron secured his legacy already. He has nothing left to prove.  

 

Don't worry dear. Besides I have read your praise even about Peyton Manning nobody else has seen. lmaoIt's a secret.

 

I am actually the one who has called Lebron the GOAT before in the "da archives". I do it for fun, in the heat of the moment and just because I damn well can.

 

I Jules, have called Lebron the GOAT or hinted he might be in "the small convo of GOAT" or what not. So whatever, GOAT or not GOAT or not top 5 or top 10 or 15 or what not. Or leadership awards, MVPs and blah blah blah.

 

kN8E_f-maxage-0.gif

 

 

Guilty as charged. Jules is guilty as charged.

 

Crime? My crime is enjoying Cleveland Cavaliers basketball and Lebron James for fun.

 

Punishment? That depends. I guess I get sent to the Warriors gulag and my prison guard in charge is Zaza Pachulia. That should be fun, but Kevin Love will save me on his white horse.......

 

But, yes I won't even take it back either. I damn well think Lebron might very well be the GOAT regardless of the "da lists" and "da rankings" and everything else.

 

And the damn Michael Jordan crap I hear all the time and honestly I don't CARE about Michael Jordan at times, enjoy the PRESENT. Not even MJ was MJ since they created such a mythology of Biblical proportions around him that it was unreal. He is the biggest product in sports of all time. The marketing, the rule changes against Detroit and *gasp* MJ never went too far without Scottie Pippen. *giggles* So yeah they all need a little help you know........

 

Yes MJ was great and I am not saying he WAS NOT GREAT, but lets calm down at times too and stop acting like he is in charge of a religion and that men with black coats will drag us away in the middle of the night if we say he isn't the best of everything all the time or even get TIRED of him.

 

And if someone don't think Lebron is the GOAT or in this GOAT group thats fine. I am my own woman and have my own views and opinions on things and for me I am having FUN. 

 

Jesus Christ, all these lists and rankings and what not. Who cares?  Just enjoy watching an all time great play the game and a good team around him. Have some fun. And if you prefer the Warriors, go enjoy watching them play too since they got a starting lineup from hell.

 

Lebron I will admit is not comfortable in these last two games despite putting up enough points tonight. Boston vs Lebron James has been a heated rivalry for some time. Some in Boston are now saying Lebron is passing Magic Johnson in terms of all time rivals. Lebron can't wait to be done with Boston.........there is something about Boston at times that just "gets to him" mentally and I admit Brad Stevens is a damn good coach.

 

And lolz am I seriously reading that Lebron created the super team? Um.........Boston did that with KG and Ray Allen. lmao 

 

 

Anyway, talk to you all later again maybe. Yes we are headed back to the same finals. And yes it's going to be very very VERY tough.

 

Have fun y'all.

 

Peace out again for a while.

 

Happy list making and media complaining!!!!:cheer2:

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13 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

Don't worry dear. Besides I have read your praise even about Peyton Manning nobody else has seen. lmaoIt's a secret.

 

I am actually the one who has called Lebron the GOAT before in the "da archives". I do it for fun, in the heat of the moment and just because I damn well can.

 

I Jules, have called Lebron the GOAT or hinted he might be in "the small convo of GOAT" or what not. So whatever, GOAT or not GOAT or not top 5 or top 10 or 15 or what not. Or leadership awards, MVPs and blah blah blah.

 

kN8E_f-maxage-0.gif

 

 

Guilty as charged. Jules is guilty as charged.

 

Crime? My crime is enjoying Cleveland Cavaliers basketball and Lebron James for fun.

 

Punishment? That depends. I guess I get sent to the Warriors gulag and my prison guard in charge is Zaza Pachulia. That should be fun, but Kevin Love will save me on his white horse.......

 

But, yes I won't even take it back either. I damn well think Lebron might very well be the GOAT regardless of the "da lists" and "da rankings" and everything else.

 

And the damn Michael Jordan crap I hear all the time and honestly I don't CARE about Michael Jordan at times, enjoy the PRESENT. Not even MJ was MJ since they created such a mythology of Biblical proportions around him that it was unreal. He is the biggest product in sports of all time. The marketing, the rule changes against Detroit and *gasp* MJ never went too far without Scottie Pippen. *giggles* So yeah they all need a little help you know........

 

Yes MJ was great and I am not saying he WAS NOT GREAT, but lets calm down at times too and stop acting like he is in charge of a religion and that men with black coats will drag us away in the middle of the night if we say he isn't the best of everything all the time or even get TIRED of him.

 

And if someone don't think Lebron is the GOAT or in this GOAT group thats fine. I am my own woman and have my own views and opinions on things and for me I am having FUN. 

 

Jesus Christ, all these lists and rankings and what not. Who cares?  Just enjoy watching an all time great play the game and a good team around him. Have some fun. And if you prefer the Warriors, go enjoy watching them play too since they got a starting lineup from hell.

 

Lebron I will admit is not comfortable in these last two games despite putting up enough points tonight. Boston vs Lebron James has been a heated rivalry for some time. Some in Boston are now saying Lebron is passing Magic Johnson in terms of all time rivals. Lebron can't wait to be done with Boston.........there is something about Boston at times that just "gets to him" mentally and I admit Brad Stevens is a damn good coach.

 

And lolz am I seriously reading that Lebron created the super team? Um.........Boston did that with KG and Ray Allen. lmao 

 

 

Anyway, talk to you all later again maybe. Yes we are headed back to the same finals. And yes it's going to be very very VERY tough.

 

Have fun y'all.

 

Peace out again for a while.

 

Happy list making and media complaining!!!!:cheer2:

Well I think LeBron is in the GOAT convo, never said he wasn't (if you are Top 10 you are in that convo) and yes Bogie is a Peyton hater. It is what it is. I have seen him bash Peyton so much on your Profile Page that it's comical. If I even mention he is the GOAT he brings up Peyton's MVP's being meaningless and his nice pass to Tracy Porter for the game winning TD in SB 44. I am over it anyway because no matter what I say to you either, you will take his side. No biggy, Go Warriors!

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12 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

I will agree with one part. He won't need an excuse for losing to the Warriors, they are that good this year. The one thing I did agree with is that he doesn't need a pass or excuse because the other team will be that good. GOAT is a term thrown around like "flavor of the year", so much that it has really been diluted, maybe I got caught up in it too. My bad, sign of the times.

 

I do believe he is top 5 material, that has always been my standing, if he continues at this pace for a few more years. He will never be Jordan, his game is more Magic than Jordan, I always felt, have said that before too. Plus, I was ecstatic when Lebron lost to the Warriors in 2015 and when he lost to the Mavericks as well. When he was within grasp before game 7 vs the Warriors, that is when I truly rooted for him because I knew the chance would never come again for Cleveland and was genuinely happy for him and the Cavs nation because that is how it was supposed to be, winning one for his home team. However, it was like Peyton Manning, couldn't win the big one, constantly in Cleveland when the Cavs were in purgatory, and the owner was not willing to fork up the money. But Lebron bolted because he could. In the NFL, you cannot pull stuff like that.

 

Lebron going to Miami showed everyone in the league that if owners are willing to disgustingly exceed the cap, championships will come. Just because he opened the flood gates, it does not mean the NBA should not do something about it either. All this resting baloney has to stop too. How many stunts like that did MJ pull? Pretty much few.

 

Excellent post.  I completely agree with you and see where you are coming from. I'd say LeBron is a mixture of Karl Malone, Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson 6'9 can score, drive, big athletic, rebounds, dishes and blocks shots.  He just doesn't have the best outside shot and he doesn't have that clutch gene like Bird, Magic, Jordan, Kobe etc had.  Free agency is free agency and players in all professional sports are able to go where ever they want when their contracts are up but the way he did it was what bugged me.  He had to have a huge press conference to do it among other things.  I mean I understand he didn't join the Celtics(the team that beat him) but he joined two of the best players in the league which kind of started this whole super team trend. It's not good for the NBA when there are only 2 really good contenders.  We may see a few other teams formed in the near future maybe 1 or 2 other ones.  MJ never did pull any stunts like LeBron has.  MJ wouldn't have teamed up with Barkley, Bird, Magic, Isiah, Malone etc, he wanted to beat those guys and he figured out how to do so.  The only knock on him is retiring in 1993 and coming back in 2001. 

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15 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I didn't like what Durant did but LeBron started all this SuperTeam crap in this era. So other players are looking at that and saying, If LeBron can do it why not me - he is the best player in the league? LeBron was being compared to Jordan and Magic while in Cleveland in his first few years. Durant has never been compared to those guys nor has anyone even considered Durant the GOAT or close to it. LeBron leaving for Miami to join Wade and Bosh was so bad for the league and looked so bad that I almost didn't even watch it in 2011. Thankfully Dirk and Dallas beat them, I celebrated bigtime when that happened! That was great for the league. LeBron should've never left Cleveland period IMO and toughed it out. If he was all that he still would've won at least 2 or 3 Championships in Cleveland like Bird did in Boston. When LeBron joined Wade that was ridiculous.

I completely agree.  Even if Bosh and Wade joined him in Cleveland at the time, he would have gotten a lot more respect.  I understand free agency is free agency but if he's compared to the best then he should be able to beat the best in his era right?  I felt like he took the easy way out by teaming up in Miami with Wade(the 2nd best SG at the time) and Bosh(The 2nd best PF at the time).  I don't agree with what Durant did either but as you've stated I think LeBron is partial to blame for starting that trend(as well as Bosh n Wade too).

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15 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I know that is pretty even and had it not been for Magic, Bird would've won at least 5 Championships. The Lakers were the only team that beat Bird's Celtics in the Finals. They beat them twice. Championships are not the tell all as I have Wilt in my Top 5 and he only won 2 but LeBron doesn't have near the Stats Wilt had either. Wilt once averaged 50 Points a game in a season so that stands out bigtime. He also scored 100 Points in a game so Stats here weigh in a lot with Wilt's ranking. Wilt also averaged 23 Rebounds a game for his whole career. I kind of think LeBron/Bird are even right now. My top 5 is Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, and Kobe/ with Bird/Shaq/Duncan/Russell/and LeBron all pretty even. That is 10 players and I didn't even include Big O. If LeBron and the Cavs can manage to beat the Warriors then I would actually move him ahead of Kobe in 5th. Kobe would still have more Championships 5-4 but beating the Warriors 2 years in a row is huge in my book.

The league was much more competitive back then.  Yes Bird had to go through the Lakers but he had to go through good 76ers Teams, Pistons Teams, Young Jordan(They always beat him but he gave them tons of problems) and the good Houston Rockets team.  Bird and Magic dominated the 80's. 

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On 5/23/2017 at 0:12 PM, MTC said:

Haven't been too impressed with a lot of the guys Pritchard and company have brought in for the pre-draft workouts, although Bryce Alford is intriguing as a second round option. He's a great scorer. 

Alford is a solid shooter but I don't think he would be worthy of our pick.  Should hopefully have better options available.

 

Edit: apparently I can't read. He may be alright in the 2nd round.

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Watching the Jump on ESPN. Paul Pierce just gave his all-time starting lineup, really similar to mine, I agree with 3 of his players,

He has:

PG Magic

SG Jordan

SF Kobe here at the 3

PF Russell here at the 4

C Kareem

Pippen agreed with it except Pippen said Shaq at Center LOL.

 

-My all-time starting lineup would be:

PG Magic

SG Jordan, - Kobe gets left off because of MJ

SF Bird, - if LeBron beats the Warriors this season. I go LeBron!

PF KMalone, - Malone was a true PF unlike Russell or Duncan. People consider Duncan the best PF of all-time but he was a PF/C at 7'0. Russell was only 6'10 but played Center in his era.

C Kareem - and this was tough because I love me some Shaq and Wilt!

 

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19 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

What do you think of Purdue's Caleb Swanigan...?

.....only 6-foot-8 but strong on the boards..not a bad shooter

 

....should be available mid 1st round

I like him, but a lot of people say he should go back to school and he could be a top 10 pick if he does

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33 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Watching the Jump on ESPN. Paul Pierce just gave his all-time starting lineup, really similar to mine, I agree with 3 of his players,

He has:

PG Magic

SG Jordan

SF Kobe here at the 3

PF Russell here at the 4

C Kareem

Pippen agreed with it except Pippen said Shaq at Center LOL.

 

-My all-time starting lineup would be:

PG Magic

SG Jordan, - Kobe gets left off because of MJ

SF Bird, - if LeBron beats the Warriors this season. I go LeBron!

PF KMalone, - Malone was a true PF unlike Russell or Duncan. People consider Duncan the best PF of all-time but he was a PF/C at 7'0. Russell was only 6'10 but played Center in his era.

C Kareem - and this was tough because I love me some Shaq and Wilt!

 

Can't really disagree.  I like your starting 5 better but I'd have Duncan and Wilt in there.  Can't really argue with either.

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26 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Can't really disagree.  I like your starting 5 better but I'd have Duncan and Wilt in there.  Can't really argue with either.

Yeah it's really splitting hairs. I think Duncan is a better all-time player than Malone but to me Malone was a true PF, Duncan more of a PF/C. I almost put Wilt or Shaq at Center LOL but I just respect Kareem too much to leave him off. Kareem with his 6 Championships and 6 League MVP's, and all-time leading NBA scorer with the sweet skyhook. Just couldn't do it regarding this topic. Between LeBron and Bird, it's a coin flip really. If LeBron gets his 4th and beats a loaded Warriors team than I go Bron. I know some may say why do you have Malone in your 5, he has no Championships? Well to me he is best pure PF ever that is simply why. He is the 2nd all-time leading scorer in NBA history as well by the way only behind Kareem.

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LeBron will pass Jordan tonight for all-time leader in Playoff Points. Keep in my mind before people slobber over this, he has played 33 more Playoff games than Jordan. Still a great accomplishment and congrats to LeBron before I get my butt chewed for being a supposed hater saying he played more games - just covering myself LOL. Finally the Finals are set, like I predicted Cavs vs Warriors unless the Celtics make a huge comeback. Cavs up huge right now.

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52 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

I'm wondering if the Cavs pull out their black sleeved jersey's they fell in love with last finals?....gotta wait a whole week for this!

 

Got your popcorn ready! Lets go Dubs!.. Warriors in 5 Take the first two at home lose game 3 take games 4 and 5

I think it will go 7 games, it will take the Warriors best efforts to beat Cleveland. I say Warriors in 7.

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The Finals are here and the matchup everyone has been waiting for is here. No excuses, both teams are 100% healthy and will be well rested. Cavs have LeBron = best player in the game, Irving, Love, Korver, Thompson, and Smith. Warriors have Curry, Durant, Thompson, and Green - the BIG4. Warriors are favored but to me I think it's pretty even because you have the LeBron factor. Cavs beat them last year too so they know mentally they have a chance. Anytime you can win a Game 7 on the road in the Finals that is huge mentally. I think if the Cavs had HCA they would be favored in Vegas, main reason the Warriors are favored is because they have HCA (that is IMO). HCA didn't matter last season though. Here is how I think the series will go:

Warriors win Game 1 1-0 lead

Cavs win Game 2 1-1

Warriors win Game 3 2-1 lead

Cavs win Game 4 2-2

Warriors win Game 5 3-2 lead

Cavs win Game 6 3-3

Warriors win 4-3, Steph Curry will win MVP of the Finals. He hasn't won one yet so he is due. These teams are so great that I don't see either one of them losing 2 in a row. I think it seesaw's back and forth. I put my predictions out there, not afraid too. Lets see how close I come.

 

*Here is a question, is anyone picking the Cavs? LeBron is the best player in the league and in a lot of the media's eyes is 2nd all-time best ever only to Jordan, a few even have him the GOAT. So there has to be some that think LeBron can win this. Hell he has Irving and Love for major help as well. Both those guys are Great players! Irving may be the best 1 on 1 player in the league?

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48 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

If LeBron wins this year's championship, I think it's written in stone that he's the greatest of all time...or at least you start looking for your hammer and chisel.

Why is that? Just asking. You do know the Jazz were favored by Vegas going into the 1998 Finals and Jazz had HCA but the Bulls still beat them. Also lets say LeBron wins this year. That would give him 4 Championships. If LeBron wins and wins Finals MVP it would be:

Jordan 6-4 in Championships

Jordan 5-4 in League MVP's/this wont change

Jordan 6 Finals MVP's, LeBron would have 4

Jordan 6-0 in Finals, LeBron would be 4-4

Jordan has 10 Scoring Titles, LeBron has 1

Jordan has won Defensive Player of the Year once, LeBron has never won that.

Jordan still has more Career Points and hasn't even played as long as LeBron has.

-Not trying to start anything but you don't have a leg to stand on saying that. Jordan beats him in nearly everything imaginable that is most important. LeBron now has more Playoff Points but he has played 33 more games to do so. I cant debate with anyone because I list facts that back up my stuff while others just get on here and say LeBron is the best just because.

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3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Why is that? Just asking. You do know the Jazz were favored by Vegas going into the 1998 Finals and Jazz had HCA but the Bulls still beat them. Also lets say LeBron wins this year. That would give him 4 Championships. If LeBron wins and wins Finals MVP it would be:

Jordan 6-4 in Championships

Jordan 5-4 in League MVP's/this wont change

Jordan 6 Finals MVP's, LeBron would have 4

Jordan 6-0 in Finals, LeBron would be 4-4

Jordan has 10 Scoring Titles, LeBron has 1

Jordan has won Defensive Player of the Year once, LeBron has never won that.

Jordan still has more Career Points and hasn't even played as long as LeBron has

-Not trying to start anything but you don't have a leg to stand on saying that. Jordan beats him in nearly everything imaginable that is most important. LeBron now has more Playoff Points but he has played 33 more games to do so.

I'm really not trying to get into this discussion because I understand both sides but the people who try to make it look like it is not a discussion really get to me.

 

People talk about the rings but I don't think one of LeBron's teams were as good as MJs and the Warriors this year and last year were better than any team Jordan played.

 

And also about the playoff point stat. LeBron did play 33 more games but still has fewer attempts than MJ did. Just shows you how much Jordan shot the basketball. LeBron will be top ten in assists when he retires.

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14 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

I'm really not trying to get into this discussion because I understand both sides but the people who try to make it look like it is not a discussion really get to me.

 

People talk about the rings but I don't think one of LeBron's teams were as good as MJs and the Warriors this year and last year were better than any team Jordan played.

 

And also about the playoff point stat. LeBron did play 33 more games but still has fewer attempts than MJ did. Just shows you how much Jordan shot the basketball. LeBron will be top ten in assists when he retires.

I understand that but just answer this, who's better MJ or LeBron? I honestly could not stand Michael Jordan which some just ignore when I Post. I hated him more than I do LeBron but I don't get  caught up in the moment either and just say someone's the best ever when they don't have the resume to back it up.  I also think Magic was better than LeBron, lets say LeBron wins it all and wins Finals MVP this season:

-Magic 5-4 in Championships

-LeBron has him 4-3 in League MVP's

-LeBron would have him 4-3 in Finals MVP's

-Magic 5-4 in Finals, LeBron 4-4 in Finals

-LeBron much more Points in his career

-Magic much more Assists in his career

-Neither have won Defensive Player of the Year.

 

To me this is much more of a debate and almost dead even, both are pretty even Rebounders as well. Magic still would be the greater winner though and nobody is going to tell me the Boston teams that Magic beat aren't as great as the Warrior teams are now - that is close but Boston was loaded back then as well.

 

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All of this is assuming LeBron wins it all. What if he loses? Which I think will happen actually, he would be 3-5 Finals then, 3 Championships, and 3 Finals MVP's still. Top 10 material no doubt but still not better than several players then. Regarding Magic Johnson, one more thing people need to remember, he won the Championship in his Rookie Season being the leader of the Lakers. Kareem was great obviously but was injured in the Finals in a close out Game/Game 6 of the Finals against a loaded Sixers team. Magic had 42 Points/15 Rebounds/7 Assists in that close out game at Philly and won it all. I should just drop the mic at this point because I can present so many facts to back up what I say that it would make Perry Mason jealous :sarcasm:

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On 5/24/2017 at 9:02 PM, oldunclemark said:

What do you think of Purdue's Caleb Swanigan...?

.....only 6-foot-8 but strong on the boards..not a bad shooter

 

....should be available mid 1st round

Obviously I'm biased, but I like Caleb Swanigan alot. Great rebounder and surprisingly a solid 3 pt shooter. His x factor is his work ethic though. Works extremely hard. If he doesn't produce at the NBA level, it won't be because of his work ethic. The major weakness is his lack of athleticism and lack of speed. He struggled quite a bit to defend Deonte Burton in the Iowa State game, for example. I wouldn't draft him as early as the mid first round though. I'm thinking he's more of a late first early second. I'm hoping he goes to an organization like the Spurs.

 

17 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I like him, but a lot of people say he should go back to school and he could be a top 10 pick if he does

A lot of people? Outside of the Purdue fan base, most people have said he should go pro this year. Caleb had a phenomenal year this season and it's going to be hard to match/improve what he did next year. Furthermore, the 2018 draft will be deeper next year in terms of big men which could make his stock fall. Not to mention there's always the possibility of an injury.

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43 minutes ago, Boilermaker said:

A lot of people? Sources? Outside of the Purdue fan base, most people have said he should go pro this year. Caleb had a phenomenal year this season and it's going to be hard to match/improve what he did next year. Furthermore, the 2018 draft will be deeper next year in terms of big man which could make his stock fall. Not to mention there's always the possibility of an injury.

That would be my thought too. It's going to be difficult for Swanigan to have a better  season. I really like the kid too. He isn't going to make any all defensive team but he can score the ball. If he can continue to shoot the deep ball he will help someone. I could see the Celtics take him if the Magic don't grab him with one of their 3 picks between 25-32(something like that). I'd love to see him in a Pacers uniform but I don't think he goes that early in the first or is around for us in the second. He could be a poor mans Kevin Love. 

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11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think it will go 7 games, it will take the Warriors best efforts to beat Cleveland. I say Warriors in 7.

It definitely could go 7 games.. no doubt. But I think the Cavs d will be exposed big time. Kyrie, and Love.

If Kyrie goes all "game 5 " on Warriors for the whole series it's gonna be close.

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17 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah it's really splitting hairs. I think Duncan is a better all-time player than Malone but to me Malone was a true PF, Duncan more of a PF/C. I almost put Wilt or Shaq at Center LOL but I just respect Kareem too much to leave him off. Kareem with his 6 Championships and 6 League MVP's, and all-time leading NBA scorer with the sweet skyhook. Just couldn't do it regarding this topic. Between LeBron and Bird, it's a coin flip really. If LeBron gets his 4th and beats a loaded Warriors team than I go Bron. I know some may say why do you have Malone in your 5, he has no Championships? Well to me he is best pure PF ever that is simply why. He is the 2nd all-time leading scorer in NBA history as well by the way only behind Kareem.

I only put Duncan in my top 5 because of his rings/finals MVP's etc.  Malone could arguably be the best PF.  He's 2nd in books.

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11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Finals are here and the matchup everyone has been waiting for is here. No excuses, both teams are 100% healthy and will be well rested. Cavs have LeBron = best player in the game, Irving, Love, Korver, Thompson, and Smith. Warriors have Curry, Durant, Thompson, and Green - the BIG4. Warriors are favored but to me I think it's pretty even because you have the LeBron factor. Cavs beat them last year too so they know mentally they have a chance. Anytime you can win a Game 7 on the road in the Finals that is huge mentally. I think if the Cavs had HCA they would be favored in Vegas, main reason the Warriors are favored is because they have HCA (that is IMO). HCA didn't matter last season though. Here is how I think the series will go:

Warriors win Game 1 1-0 lead

Cavs win Game 2 1-1

Warriors win Game 3 2-1 lead

Cavs win Game 4 2-2

Warriors win Game 5 3-2 lead

Cavs win Game 6 3-3

Warriors win 4-3, Steph Curry will win MVP of the Finals. He hasn't won one yet so he is due. These teams are so great that I don't see either one of them losing 2 in a row. I think it seesaw's back and forth. I put my predictions out there, not afraid too. Lets see how close I come.

 

*Here is a question, is anyone picking the Cavs? LeBron is the best player in the league and in a lot of the media's eyes is 2nd all-time best ever only to Jordan, a few even have him the GOAT. So there has to be some that think LeBron can win this. Hell he has Irving and Love for major help as well. Both those guys are Great players! Irving may be the best 1 on 1 player in the league?

All those people want to have an excuse lined up if LeBron doesn't win.  Oh the Warriors were better and were suppose to win, LeBron doesn't have any help blah blah blah.  Anyone look at K Love or Kyrie's numbers in the East Finals?  Superstar like numbers, both of them.  Yes Golden State is probably the better team but the better team doesn't guarantee anything.  I still think the Warriors win in 5, I think they are to good.  I'd say 6 at most, that is if everyone stays healthy and not suspended lol

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9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Why is that? Just asking. You do know the Jazz were favored by Vegas going into the 1998 Finals and Jazz had HCA but the Bulls still beat them. Also lets say LeBron wins this year. That would give him 4 Championships. If LeBron wins and wins Finals MVP it would be:

Jordan 6-4 in Championships

Jordan 5-4 in League MVP's/this wont change

Jordan 6 Finals MVP's, LeBron would have 4

Jordan 6-0 in Finals, LeBron would be 4-4

Jordan has 10 Scoring Titles, LeBron has 1

Jordan has won Defensive Player of the Year once, LeBron has never won that.

Jordan still has more Career Points and hasn't even played as long as LeBron has.

-Not trying to start anything but you don't have a leg to stand on saying that. Jordan beats him in nearly everything imaginable that is most important. LeBron now has more Playoff Points but he has played 33 more games to do so. I cant debate with anyone because I list facts that back up my stuff while others just get on here and say LeBron is the best just because.

I knew that would be coming lol.  A lot of people honestly don't realize how good Jordan was, what his accomplishments were etc.  He's on a completely different planet.  I am not taking anything away from LeBron, he's a great player but you can't crown him the GOAT for beating the Warriors this year. The Warriors are the better team but LeBron's been on the other end of the stick to(in the finals).  Most former NBA players are saying he'd officially pass Magic and/or Kobe by beating the Warriors this year but Jordans on another level.  I'll call it right now.  If they don't win this year, the same will be said next year or if LeBron wins the finals against the Warriors(or whom ever), he's going to be considered the GOAT.  If for some reason LeBron never wins another one, the same people will still say he's the GOAT. 

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8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

All of this is assuming LeBron wins it all. What if he loses? Which I think will happen actually, he would be 3-5 Finals then, 3 Championships, and 3 Finals MVP's still. Top 10 material no doubt but still not better than several players then. Regarding Magic Johnson, one more thing people need to remember, he won the Championship in his Rookie Season being the leader of the Lakers. Kareem was great obviously but was injured in the Finals in a close out Game/Game 6 of the Finals against a loaded Sixers team. Magic had 42 Points/15 Rebounds/7 Assists in that close out game at Philly and won it all. I should just drop the mic at this point because I can present so many facts to back up what I say that it would make Perry Mason jealous :sarcasm:

You make a good point but there response will be, he didn't have help, he wasn't favored, the other teams were better, making it to 8 finals is better than winning 6 blah blah blah, I've heard it all lol. 

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44 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

It definitely could go 7 games.. no doubt. But I think the Cavs d will be exposed big time. Kyrie, and Love.

If Kyrie goes all "game 5 " on Warriors for the whole series it's gonna be close.

If the Celtics put up over 100 points a game and 3 of those games they were missing their best player, what do you think the Warriors are going to do?  120, 130?  You are 100% correct. 

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10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Why is that? Just asking. You do know the Jazz were favored by Vegas going into the 1998 Finals and Jazz had HCA but the Bulls still beat them. Also lets say LeBron wins this year. That would give him 4 Championships. If LeBron wins and wins Finals MVP it would be:

Jordan 6-4 in Championships

Jordan 5-4 in League MVP's/this wont change

Jordan 6 Finals MVP's, LeBron would have 4

Jordan 6-0 in Finals, LeBron would be 4-4

Jordan has 10 Scoring Titles, LeBron has 1

Jordan has won Defensive Player of the Year once, LeBron has never won that.

Jordan still has more Career Points and hasn't even played as long as LeBron has.

-Not trying to start anything but you don't have a leg to stand on saying that. Jordan beats him in nearly everything imaginable that is most important. LeBron now has more Playoff Points but he has played 33 more games to do so. I cant debate with anyone because I list facts that back up my stuff while others just get on here and say LeBron is the best just because.

I think LeBron is already in contention for the GOAT crown.  Take everything he's accomplished (7 straight Finals, beat a 73-win team, stat sheet stuffer) and add in that he also beat the superteam of the Warriors.  If I recall correctly - and my basketball history isn't that spectacular - Jordan never had to face a team with this much firepower.  If LeBron wins, I think you break out the hammer and chisel at the very least.

 

Regarding the numbers you mentioned, Jordan had better teams....

To counter the rings argument: the Cavs of the early 2000s were awful, which was evident by how they got the first overall pick after LeBron left.  Jordan left and his team remained a 50+ win team.  I'm not making excuses for LeBron; he was completely shut down against the Mavs.  But he didn't have a strong supporting cast until he got to Miami

 

To counter the MVP argument: there's a strong case that LeBron should have won MVP this year and possibly even last.  Voters just get tired of giving the award to the same guy.  Westbrook, Harden, and Kawhi had amazing seasons, but Harden turns the ball over at an amazing rate, Westbrook has some turnover issues as well and didn't have his team in the top half of the conference, and LeBron had more points, rebounds, and assists than Kawhi.

 

To counter the Finals MVP argument: both guys would be MVPs in every championship they won, so this is equal in my opinion

 

To counter the Finals record: yes, Jordan's record is amazing.  6-0 is nothing to scoff at.  But let me give you a hypothetical here.  If every year LeBron lost the Finals, he was beaten in the conference championships, he'd be 3-0.  If LeBron were 3-0, he wouldn't be getting as much criticism.  But people are criticizing him for getting to the Finals and losing.  Alternatively, take those three years where Jordan lost in the first round and have him make it to the Finals and lose.  He'd be 6-3.  But because he lost in the first round, he's 6-0 and people think he's untouchable.  We're criticizing LeBron for advancing further in the playoffs, which makes no sense.

 

There's no counter to the scoring titles argument.  LeBron isn't the scorer Jordan was.  But LeBron is a more complete player, as shown by his rebounding and assist totals.

 

But the bottom line to me is take everything LeBron has already accomplished and, if we play along with the hypothetical scenario that he wins this year, add in that he beat a superteam.  Not only is that an amazing accomplishment, but even Jordan himself couldn't do that.  Jordan couldn't beat Bird's Celtics or the Bad Boy Pistons

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3 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I think LeBron is already in contention for the GOAT crown.  Take everything he's accomplished (7 straight Finals, beat a 73-win team, stat sheet stuffer) and add in that he also beat the superteam of the Warriors.  If I recall correctly - and my basketball history isn't that spectacular - Jordan never had to face a team with this much firepower.  If LeBron wins, I think you break out the hammer and chisel at the very least.

 

Regarding the numbers you mentioned, Jordan had better teams....

To counter the rings argument: the Cavs of the early 2000s were awful, which was evident by how they got the first overall pick after LeBron left.  Jordan left and his team remained a 50+ win team.  I'm not making excuses for LeBron; he was completely shut down against the Mavs.  But he didn't have a strong supporting cast until he got to Miami

 

To counter the MVP argument: there's a strong case that LeBron should have won MVP this year and possibly even last.  Voters just get tired of giving the award to the same guy.  Westbrook, Harden, and Kawhi had amazing seasons, but Harden turns the ball over at an amazing rate, Westbrook has some turnover issues as well and didn't have his team in the top half of the conference, and LeBron had more points, rebounds, and assists than Kawhi.

 

To counter the Finals MVP argument: both guys would be MVPs in every championship they won, so this is equal in my opinion

 

To counter the Finals record: yes, Jordan's record is amazing.  6-0 is nothing to scoff at.  But let me give you a hypothetical here.  If every year LeBron lost the Finals, he was beaten in the conference championships, he'd be 3-0.  If LeBron were 3-0, he wouldn't be getting as much criticism.  But people are criticizing him for getting to the Finals and losing.  Alternatively, take those three years where Jordan lost in the first round and have him make it to the Finals and lose.  He'd be 6-3.  But because he lost in the first round, he's 6-0 and people think he's untouchable.  We're criticizing LeBron for advancing further in the playoffs, which makes no sense.

 

There's no counter to the scoring titles argument.  LeBron isn't the scorer Jordan was.  But LeBron is a more complete player, as shown by his rebounding and assist totals.

 

But the bottom line to me is take everything LeBron has already accomplished and, if we play along with the hypothetical scenario that he wins this year, add in that he beat a superteam.  Not only is that an amazing accomplishment, but even Jordan himself couldn't do that.  Jordan couldn't beat Bird's Celtics or the Bad Boy Pistons

I gave you a LIKE because you bring up many good points. I will say this if LeBron beats the Warriors this season I would put him ahead of Kobe (and move him into my Top 5) and like I said last night he would be pretty even with Magic. I made a pretty good argument for Magic still being 2nd above. Magic is clearly the greatest PG ever to play and no player that is a Rookie can just take over a Finals and do what he did against Philly. Before I move LeBron ahead of Magic he needs to win 5 Championships IMO.

 

-You also are underestimating how great the Jazz were. Jordan beat them 2 years in a row, once without HCA. They had Stockton and Malone + a deep bench and were almost unbeatable at home back then. Magic beat Birds Celtics twice, beat the Sixers twice, and Pistons once. All of the teams Magic beat were arguably Top 5 teams of all-time.

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3 hours ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

You make a good point but there response will be, he didn't have help, he wasn't favored, the other teams were better, making it to 8 finals is better than winning 6 blah blah blah, I've heard it all lol. 

If the Warriors win I know that is what is coming. People will say, oh well he lost to the better team but he still beat them last year. He didn't have enough help, etc.. Every time he loses I hear this. I give him a pass for 2007 because he really didn't have help there and the Spurs were awesome that season but losing to the Mavs and the Spurs in 2014 I do not give him a pass for. In 2014 the Spurs were great but LeBron still had Wade, Bosh, and Allen and cruised to the Finals before losing. The year he lost to the Warriors LeBron was short handed because Irving was out so he should get a pass there as well. 2 of those losses though he lost with a group of healthy Superstars and he was healthy.

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13 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Why is that? Just asking. You do know the Jazz were favored by Vegas going into the 1998 Finals and Jazz had HCA but the Bulls still beat them. Also lets say LeBron wins this year. That would give him 4 Championships. If LeBron wins and wins Finals MVP it would be:

Jordan 6-4 in Championships

Jordan 5-4 in League MVP's/this wont change

Jordan 6 Finals MVP's, LeBron would have 4

Jordan 6-0 in Finals, LeBron would be 4-4

Jordan has 10 Scoring Titles, LeBron has 1

Jordan has won Defensive Player of the Year once, LeBron has never won that.

Jordan still has more Career Points and hasn't even played as long as LeBron has.

-Not trying to start anything but you don't have a leg to stand on saying that. Jordan beats him in nearly everything imaginable that is most important. LeBron now has more Playoff Points but he has played 33 more games to do so. I cant debate with anyone because I list facts that back up my stuff while others just get on here and say LeBron is the best just because.

At what point does Lebron pass Jordan? Does he have to win more Championships, score more points, win more MVPs? I always feel these greatest evers are so difficult to argue. I just like to have my Mt. Rushmore of players in sports...and clearly both would be on there. The game is so different across decades its almost impossible to compare. The sport changes and evolves. Same way for football too. I know Lebron is great....I hate to admit it because I can't stand his attitude a lot of the time but he is....so my question is what would it take for him to exceed Jordan? I think its a fair question.

You always say Peyton is the GOAT but what would it take for Brady to exceed him. He already has in almost every category and most likely will in tds all time by the time he quits. Will he be better than Peyton then? Just want to know where the goal post is...so as not to move it.

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14 minutes ago, dgambill said:

At what point does Lebron pass Jordan? Does he have to win more Championships, score more points, win more MVPs? I always feel these greatest evers are so difficult to argue. I just like to have my Mt. Rushmore of players in sports...and clearly both would be on there. The game is so different across decades its almost impossible to compare. The sport changes and evolves. Same way for football too. I know Lebron is great....I hate to admit it because I can't stand his attitude a lot of the time but he is....so my question is what would it take for him to exceed Jordan? I think its a fair question.

You always say Peyton is the GOAT but what would it take for Brady to exceed him. He already has in almost every category and most likely will in tds all time by the time he quits. Will he be better than Peyton then? Just want to know where the goal post is...so as not to move it.

I actually make arguments for Peyton being the GOAT because some people just dismiss him because Brady has 5 Rings but I have been record saying Brady and Montana should be rated higher. I have Peyton 3rd best actually. I honestly don't think there is anything LeBron can do to catch Jordan. Jordan has set the bar so high that it's ridiculous. How can anyone match 6-0 in Finals and winning 6 Finals MVP's? Unless LeBron wins 6 Championships and becomes the all-time leading scorer than maybe? That is what Kareem is now and he never gets mentioned as a GOAT. LeBron can still end up #2 IMO but he needs to win at least 2 more Championships before I can move him ahead of Magic or Kareem, JMO's.

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If the Warriors win I know that is what is coming. People will say, oh well he lost to the better team but he still beat them last year. He didn't have enough help, etc.. Every time he loses I hear this. I give him a pass for 2007 because he really didn't have help there and the Spurs were awesome that season but losing to the Mavs and the Spurs in 2014 I do not give him a pass for. In 2014 the Spurs were great but LeBron still had Wade, Bosh, and Allen and cruised to the Finals before losing. The year he lost to the Warriors LeBron was short handed because Irving was out so he should get a pass there as well. 2 of those losses though he lost with a group of healthy Superstars and he was healthy.

He was young in 2007 and I give him a pass even though he got swept.  Now 2011, he was favored, 2014 the Spurs were a good team but I don't think they were much better than that Heat team.  He was favored against the Thunder and beat them easily and he was favored in 2013 against the Spurs and won in 7.  Last year being a big under dog was huge for him but he's not the GOAT because of it.  Same with this year, he'll continue to move up as he wins rings but he's still got a little ways to go to surpass MJ. 

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3 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

He was young in 2007 and I give him a pass even though he got swept.  Now 2011, he was favored, 2014 the Spurs were a good team but I don't think they were much better than that Heat team.  He was favored against the Thunder and beat them easily and he was favored in 2013 against the Spurs and won in 7.  Last year being a big under dog was huge for him but he's not the GOAT because of it.  Same with this year, he'll continue to move up as he wins rings but he's still got a little ways to go to surpass MJ. 

dgBill brought up a great point. What would it take for him to surpass Jordan. I am not so sure outside of matching Jordan in Championships and becoming the all-time leading scorer he can??

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I actually make arguments for Peyton being the GOAT because some people just dismiss him because Brady has 5 Rings but I have been record saying Brady and Montana should be rated higher. I have Peyton 3rd best actually. I honestly don't think there is anything LeBron can do to catch Jordan. Jordan has set the bar so high that it's ridiculous. How can anyone match 6-0 in Finals and winning 6 Finals MVP's? Unless LeBron wins 6 Championships and becomes the all-time leading scorer than maybe? That is what Kareem is now and he never gets mentioned as a GOAT. LeBron can still end up #2 IMO but he needs to win at least 2 more Championships before I can move him ahead of Magic or Kareem, JMO's.

I gotcha. I think Jordan is the standard bearer too for a guard/scorer/leader. That said there is nothing wrong with having a different career path and yet still coming to the same mountain top. I just think its unfair if some people don't come out and say what it takes to be number 1...and then change the weight of what they are measuring...if say mvps=25%, championship=25%, pts=25%, etc etc. Going 6-0 is super impressive but to me if you go 6-4 that's more impressive because you took your team to 4 more championships. Meaning you made it further more times. Why do we punish a guy that took his team all the way to the finals but we don't punish a guy that didn't or choked in the conference finals or got man handled by the Pistons. It might be one thing if that guy got upset many times or let his team down like had bad series but I was more impressed in Lebron losing to the Spurs the first year when he totally carried a team past Detroit by himself and also how he pushed the Warriors a couple years ago with Delevadova as his second best player. I mean he was the finals mvp basically in defeat. That said losing to the Mavericks in Miami is a mark against him....but lets not act like MJ ever carried a mediocre team to the finals...EVER. I don't want to compare the two...they have two very different style games and different style personas....but they both perhaps in the end will have accomplished basically the same thing I think when its all said and done....and that's reach the pinnacle of their sport.

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1 hour ago, dgambill said:

At what point does Lebron pass Jordan? Does he have to win more Championships, score more points, win more MVPs? I always feel these greatest evers are so difficult to argue. I just like to have my Mt. Rushmore of players in sports...and clearly both would be on there. The game is so different across decades its almost impossible to compare. The sport changes and evolves. Same way for football too. I know Lebron is great....I hate to admit it because I can't stand his attitude a lot of the time but he is....so my question is what would it take for him to exceed Jordan? I think its a fair question.

You always say Peyton is the GOAT but what would it take for Brady to exceed him. He already has in almost every category and most likely will in tds all time by the time he quits. Will he be better than Peyton then? Just want to know where the goal post is...so as not to move it.

I like your mount Rushmore comment.  As far as LeBron passing Jordan, I am not sure he can?  6 rings, 6 finals MVP's, 5 regular season MVP's, Jordan beat 20 50 win teams in the playoffs, LeBron's beat 11 now, defensive player of the year, 9 all defensive first teams, lead the league in scoring a few more times(he has once, Jordan did 10 times).  I am sure I can name more reasons.  Of course LeBron's going to pass MJ in points, he's going to play a lot more games(so did Kareem).  If you compare them in there 13th year in the league Jordan wins every category except Assists, Rebounds and 3pt field goal %.  LeBron's great and can continue to move up the rankings but he's got a ways to go to be considered the GOAT.  Mt. Rushmore though?  Can't really argue with him being there. 

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10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

dgBill brought up a great point. What would it take for him to surpass Jordan. I am not so sure outside of matching Jordan in Championships and becoming the all-time leading scorer he can??

I responded to him.  Take a look.  I can name 10 more reasons if I have too, but I think that should suffice lol.

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@dgbill

 

A Mt Rushmore is basically 4 heads on a mountain correct like our Presidents one, is that where you going with that or are you talking a bigger Mt Rushmore?

 

-If we are just doing a 4 headed MT Rushmore, as of now I would have

Jordan on one end, Magic on the other end, and the 2 Centers in the middle in Wilt and Kareem. That would be my MT Rushmore.

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Dan LeBatard and the Asian lady on his ESPN show just said LeBron is the GOAT and better than Jordan already. There's 2 more. I am watching this live, if people want to pull up links and say I am full of it, pull his show up in 24 hours from today and Post it. Brian Windhorst has said LeBron is the GOAT on a lot of different occasions as well.

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