2016-2017 Indiana Pacers season (and the rest of the NBA)

[BullsColtsFan1]

12 minutes ago, Jay Kirk said:

If Birds back had not hindered him the last 5 or so years his numbers would've been quite a bit higher.

It would have been interesting to see what his final numbers were if he played 18 years.  Even if Bird would have left college early, it would have been interesting. I didn't even know the Celtics wasted a high pick on him his junior year in 1978 and didn't even play for the Celtics until 1979.   Same with Jordan really.  He only played 14 seasons and sat out 5 through that time frame.  He sat out 1985-86(injury) 93-94, 98-99, 99-00 and 00-01.  It would have been interesting for sure. 

[Jay Kirk]

7 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I was just gonna say the same thing.  If Bird didn't have back issues, I think he'd be right up there in talks for the GOAT crown

Look at the stats over his first 8 years.

[BullsColtsFan1]

21 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Isn't that implied? The reason he will be GOAT is because the Warriors are stacked and Lebron will be playing against all odds, to be honest. Jordan did not have to deal with the twitter and FB era of ripping apart everything an athlete does. Isn't that the reason why Peyton's accuser decided to upload her one sided argument right after the SB, to get more publicity in the twitter and FB era?

 

Personally, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love never scared many as a 2nd and 3rd option, both were great 1st options on bad teams with more opportunities before they were united with Lebron. Kyrie doesn't have the IT factor that Lebron has, or Steph has or even the oomph that Durant has. The Wade-Bosh duo was a bit more different with Wade a clutch performer who had already been there done that. Bosh was just along for the ride, IMO, much like the current 3rd wheel, Kevin Love, great stats on a bad team before being united with Lebron.

 

Cavs are close to the Warriors' level but not the same and their current record is embellished because of the weak East, IMO. Kevin Durant gives Steph Curry what Wade gave Lebron, IMO, at least when Wade was physically cooking. We know how tough the Warriors were to beat, even without Durant, and now it is pretty much Warriors NBA champs.

 

I am losing interest in the NBA, frankly. It is because of how a couple of teams chose to exceed the cap as much as they felt they could because there was truly no hard cap. All other teams are playing for 3rd place at best, IMO.

How can be be the GOAT by beating Golden State?  I understand Golden State is the superior team but wasn't Miami the superior team when Dallas beat them in the Finals?  LeBron has been on the other end of the stick as well.  He's 3-4 in the Finals.  I just can't see everyone crowning him the GOAT if he beats Golden State this year but if he loses he gets an excuse?  Doesn't really make sense to me.  Kyrie Irving is a top 5 point guard in the league and Kevin Love is easily a top 8 power forward in the league.  Bosh was top 5 and Wade top 5 as well at their respective positions when LeBron played with them.  I don't think many people enjoy watching the NBA anymore and it comes back to LeBron joining Miami to create the new era super team.  Once he was done in Miami he knew he was set up to be in a good situation to go back home to Cleveland.  He pretty much picked the team to be honest.  Durant formed a super team with the Warriors, you are going to see a lot of players either flock to Golden State or Cleveland or you are going to see other super teams created.  The NBA might get to 4 or 5 really good teams in the future but it's a ways away.  The league was much more competitive in the 80's 90's and early 2000's. 

[Luck is Good]

LeBron will never be Jordan. It's that simple

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Not that much of a difference really.  My point is, Bird isn't even ever talked about being the GOAT.  You could make an argument that Bird's even had the better career up until right now.  Bird only played 13 years too, LeBron will play at least 18 if not more, I'd imagine. Even Reggie Miller(who loves LeBron as much as anyone) said that he's not in MJ's league and that you could even argue that Bird was better. 

 

I know that is pretty even and had it not been for Magic, Bird would've won at least 5 Championships. The Lakers were the only team that beat Bird's Celtics in the Finals. They beat them twice. Championships are not the tell all as I have Wilt in my Top 5 and he only won 2 but LeBron doesn't have near the Stats Wilt had either. Wilt once averaged 50 Points a game in a season so that stands out bigtime. He also scored 100 Points in a game so Stats here weigh in a lot with Wilt's ranking. Wilt also averaged 23 Rebounds a game for his whole career. I kind of think LeBron/Bird are even right now. My top 5 is Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, and Kobe/ with Bird/Shaq/Duncan/Russell/and LeBron all pretty even. That is 10 players and I didn't even include Big O. If LeBron and the Cavs can manage to beat the Warriors then I would actually move him ahead of Kobe in 5th. Kobe would still have more Championships 5-4 but beating the Warriors 2 years in a row is huge in my book.

[2006Coltsbestever]

51 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

How can be be the GOAT by beating Golden State?  I understand Golden State is the superior team but wasn't Miami the superior team when Dallas beat them in the Finals?  LeBron has been on the other end of the stick as well.  He's 3-4 in the Finals.  I just can't see everyone crowning him the GOAT if he beats Golden State this year but if he loses he gets an excuse?  Doesn't really make sense to me.  Kyrie Irving is a top 5 point guard in the league and Kevin Love is easily a top 8 power forward in the league.  Bosh was top 5 and Wade top 5 as well at their respective positions when LeBron played with them.  I don't think many people enjoy watching the NBA anymore and it comes back to LeBron joining Miami to create the new era super team.  Once he was done in Miami he knew he was set up to be in a good situation to go back home to Cleveland.  He pretty much picked the team to be honest.  Durant formed a super team with the Warriors, you are going to see a lot of players either flock to Golden State or Cleveland or you are going to see other super teams created.  The NBA might get to 4 or 5 really good teams in the future but it's a ways away.  The league was much more competitive in the 80's 90's and early 2000's. 

I didn't like what Durant did but LeBron started all this SuperTeam crap in this era. So other players are looking at that and saying, If LeBron can do it why not me - he is the best player in the league? LeBron was being compared to Jordan and Magic while in Cleveland in his first few years. Durant has never been compared to those guys nor has anyone even considered Durant the GOAT or close to it. LeBron leaving for Miami to join Wade and Bosh was so bad for the league and looked so bad that I almost didn't even watch it in 2011. Thankfully Dirk and Dallas beat them, I celebrated bigtime when that happened! That was great for the league. LeBron should've never left Cleveland period IMO and toughed it out. If he was all that he still would've won at least 2 or 3 Championships in Cleveland like Bird did in Boston. When LeBron joined Wade that was ridiculous.

[Jay Kirk]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I didn't like what Durant did but LeBron started all this SuperTeam crap in this era. So other players are looking at that and saying, If LeBron can do it why not me - he is the best player in the league? LeBron was being compared to Jordan and Magic while in Cleveland in his first few years. Durant has never been compared to those guys nor has anyone even considered Durant the GOAT or close to it. LeBron leaving for Miami to join Wade and Bosh was so bad for the league and looked so bad that I almost didn't even watch it in 2011. Thankfully Dirk and Dallas beat them, I celebrated bigtime when that happened! That was great for the league. LeBron should've never left Cleveland period IMO and toughed it out. If he was all that he still would've won at least 2 or 3 Championships in Cleveland like Bird did in Boston. When LeBron joined Wade that was ridiculous.

A lot of this is stirred by media hype and Bias in my opinion . Its just really hard to compare in different time periods . The Time period of Bird and Magic going into the Jordan era may be the best ive seen, and remember The Pistons were in that Era along with The Rockets and 76ers . If you ask me there is only 2 teams now that could've even competed then without being embarrassed . Even those may not fare well because of what was allowed then , speaking the physical nature of the Game.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Jay Kirk said:

A lot of this is stirred by media hype and Bias in my opinion . Its just really hard to compare in different time periods . The Time period of Bird and Magic going into the Jordan era may be the best ive seen, and remember The Pistons were in that Era along with The Rockets and 76ers . If you ask me there is only 2 teams now that could've even competed then without being embarrassed . Even those may not fare well because of what was allowed then , speaking the physical nature of the Game.

I agree.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Celtics up 11-5 early, on an 11-0 run. Interesting.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I can already see the REFS aren't going to allow the Celtics to win this game. 2 Fouls on Crowder and Horford already. That last Foul on Horford was a joke, Love actually traveled and the announcers even said so. Still 18-13 Boston but they have 2 key guys in Foul trouble already.

[2006Coltsbestever]

28-19 Boston after the 1st. Great start by Boston. The Foul trouble is bad though.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 Fouls on LeBron already, that was a good call too. LeBron just ran the guy over. Celtics up big 46-33 and LeBron in Foul trouble. Very interesting.

[Luck is Good]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

4 Fouls on LeBron already, that was a good call too. LeBron just ran the guy over. Celtics up big 46-33 and LeBron in Foul trouble. Very interesting.

This is VERY interesting. LeBron with 4 fouls in the 1st half? This is hell freezing over type stuff

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Luck is Good said:

This is VERY interesting. LeBron with 4 fouls in the 1st half? This is hell freezing over type stuff

1st time in his career that has happened. I have been watching the game and 3 of his Fouls were very legit, he had 1 touch Foul that was questionable. Boston still up 51-41, Irving is on fire otherwise this would be worse.

[chad72]

3 hours ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

How can be be the GOAT by beating Golden State?  I understand Golden State is the superior team but wasn't Miami the superior team when Dallas beat them in the Finals?  LeBron has been on the other end of the stick as well.  He's 3-4 in the Finals.  I just can't see everyone crowning him the GOAT if he beats Golden State this year but if he loses he gets an excuse?  Doesn't really make sense to me.  Kyrie Irving is a top 5 point guard in the league and Kevin Love is easily a top 8 power forward in the league.  Bosh was top 5 and Wade top 5 as well at their respective positions when LeBron played with them.  I don't think many people enjoy watching the NBA anymore and it comes back to LeBron joining Miami to create the new era super team.  Once he was done in Miami he knew he was set up to be in a good situation to go back home to Cleveland.  He pretty much picked the team to be honest.  Durant formed a super team with the Warriors, you are going to see a lot of players either flock to Golden State or Cleveland or you are going to see other super teams created.  The NBA might get to 4 or 5 really good teams in the future but it's a ways away.  The league was much more competitive in the 80's 90's and early 2000's. 

 

I will agree with one part. He won't need an excuse for losing to the Warriors, they are that good this year. The one thing I did agree with is that he doesn't need a pass or excuse because the other team will be that good. GOAT is a term thrown around like "flavor of the year", so much that it has really been diluted, maybe I got caught up in it too. My bad, sign of the times.

 

I do believe he is top 5 material, that has always been my standing, if he continues at this pace for a few more years. He will never be Jordan, his game is more Magic than Jordan, I always felt, have said that before too. Plus, I was ecstatic when Lebron lost to the Warriors in 2015 and when he lost to the Mavericks as well. When he was within grasp before game 7 vs the Warriors, that is when I truly rooted for him because I knew the chance would never come again for Cleveland and was genuinely happy for him and the Cavs nation because that is how it was supposed to be, winning one for his home team. However, it was like Peyton Manning, couldn't win the big one, constantly in Cleveland when the Cavs were in purgatory, and the owner was not willing to fork up the money. But Lebron bolted because he could. In the NFL, you cannot pull stuff like that.

 

Lebron going to Miami showed everyone in the league that if owners are willing to disgustingly exceed the cap, championships will come. Just because he opened the flood gates, it does not mean the NBA should not do something about it either. All this resting baloney has to stop too. How many stunts like that did MJ pull? Pretty much few.

 

[RockThatBlue]

Lmao, maybe the NBA really is fixed. More games, more money. 4 fouls on LeBron is hard to believe, even if they are good calls.

[Luck is Good]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

1st time in his career that has happened. I have been watching the game and 3 of his Fouls were very legit, he had 1 touch Foul that was questionable. Boston still up 51-41, Irving is on fire otherwise this would be worse.

Yeah Kyrie is definitely keeping them in it. IF Boston wins this game, I would be a firm believer that it's destiny to win this series

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Lmao, maybe the NBA really is fixed. More games, more money. 4 fouls on LeBron is hard to believe, even if they are good calls.

3 of them were good calls, one was questionable. 3 Fouls is still unreal for him.

[RockThatBlue]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

3 of them were good calls, one was questionable. 3 Fouls is still unreal for him.

Ha, 1 foul on him is hard to believe. LeBron hardly ever gets called for fouls.

[chad72]

Mike Miller, one of his former teammates, was on Mike & Mike. He said Lebron, when forced to the right, misses more. Can anyone tell me if that is what Boston is doing? I don't have TNT.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I have to say I am stunned with this 1st Half. At Half Boston 57 Cavs 47. LeBron has 4 Fouls too. I thought the Cavs would win by 20 tonight. They still may but this is looking shaky right now.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Mike Miller, one of his former teammates, was on Mike & Mike. He said Lebron, when forced to the right, misses more. Can anyone tell me if that is what Boston is doing?

Not really, he just looks off again and Foul trouble has hampered him from being aggressive.

[RockThatBlue]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not really, he just looks off again and Foul trouble has hampered him from being aggressive.

He may be tired. He has been driving to the hoop a lot in these playoffs. He doesn't seem to have the same bounce in his step or something.

[Chrisaaron1023]

Kyrie basically playing by himself and being very effective. Cavs are lucky.. if it weren't for him this would be a 25 point game

[dgambill]

On 5/19/2017 at 10:18 PM, oldunclemark said:

Understand that every teams is drafting and only Golden State gut Curry and Thompson. Barnes and Green are role players.  Green isn't Paul George.

2 thoughts.

 

What is more possible (excuse the grammar) ?

Tanking and hoping to draft 3 all-NBA Players?

...or holding your all-NBA player and trying to attract another star to play with him.

 

and do you understand that if we trade PG for the No1 overall pick and draft a young phenom....'Chris Crossover'  or 'Luke Skywalker' who quickly becomes even better than Paul George.....in 2 or 3 years we'll be in the exact same position we are now.

Trying to find another star to play with our 'Skywalker'  or lose him in free agency.?

We hung on to Paul for like what...7-8years? We did all we could. He wants to leave and will opt out when he can next year. Who in FA could we get? There aren't anyone out there. We signed crappy free agents like Monta and Jefferson to horrible deals trying to go all in. We maxed out the PG scenario. He isn't Lebron...he isn't luring premier free agents to come sign for cheap with us. He isn't surrounded by all stars like GS ready to win and attract a KD. There is no way to make this team into a legit competitor. We had a window for a few years and that was it. The only way to make this team better is to draft well and we sold off our picks for role players that didn't do much for us and we don't draft low enough to get those difference makers. It's time to push reset my friend.

 

I'm sure we will look for difference makers to put a team around him but as soon as you see you can't land an upgrade to this team you have to make the best deal you can. We can't walk away with nothing for PG. Look at Orlando and other teams that lost their stars. Look at a team like Boston that saw the writing on the wall. Could they have kept KG and Pierce and Rondo and kept trying to add pieces and be a mediocre playoff team for years. Sure but they moved them for great draft capital and have now built a great young team. If you get the first or second pick and can then flip that to Sacramento for say 5 and 10 and use those to land say Fox or Tatum and then use the 10th for maybe Collins or a stretch 4. Then come back with our 18th and see who is best there...maybe Kennard? Also sure there would be a throw in from Celtics or Lakers like Randle or say Avery Bradley. Point being you reboot with Myles and the youngsters....and build something in 2 or 3 years and hope Lebron is finally too old to own the East. We can keep doing what we are doing but we aren't going to be much better than 4 or 5 seed unless we pull the free agency coup of the summer. If you have a solution have at it but Pritchard isn't Bird...he ain't going to be the one that lost PG for nothing....he is going to try to buy himself time with a rebuild by getting young fun to watch talent.

[Luck is Good]

OMG LeBron missing that dunk was one of the funniest things I've ever seen. I can't stop laughing. It would've given Cleveland the lead too hahahaha

[2006Coltsbestever]

Cavs only down by 1 now. They will probably win but LeBron looks tired. He just missed a jam and looks tired. His jumpers have been short all night too.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Cavs should've swept this series with Thomas being injured. They will win tonight now, up by 1 but they haven't been impressive at all. Irving has saved them bigtime.

[Chrisaaron1023]

Celtics wont gaurd kyrie

[2006Coltsbestever]

Irving to the rescue with 36. ESPN will give LeBron the credit for the win though .

[2006Coltsbestever]

39 for Irving, 3 at the buzzer. LeBron is lucky to have him. He also made the big game winning 3 against the Warriors in Game 7.

[Luck is Good]

No way on God's green earth can the Cavs beat the Warriors. That will end in 5. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a sweep

[dgambill]

On 5/19/2017 at 10:22 PM, Colts_Fan12 said:

You know whats up!! Mark thinks we can just sign great players and PG will magically stay and be happy no one sees any incentive to come sign here and PG knows this too so he will leave. Drafting is 100% the way to build in a small market we just don't ever draft worth a %

We have had some hits and misses. When we've drafted high we have actually done pretty good. Myles at 11...Paul at 10...Danny Granger at 16. When u draft in the 20s hard to do much better than guys like Solomon Hill or Travis Best or Al Harrington but even those aren't bad. We got unlucky with the Bender deal but he could have been a KD level great. I think when we draft we do ok..we just draft too late most of the time or we trade it away for marginal players going all in like we did with Scola a couple years ago and with Young last year. Hard to say who we take but a stretch 4 was there in Skal who shown he can score in the NBA. Point being guys with limited upside to me aren't the way to build a championship caliber team. The only thing we can do with this roster now is to add a couple more of these types of guys like Young and that won't cut it. We need to invest in our future.

[Luck is Good]

And yeah Kyrie is their closer. LeBron didn't win them that championship last year. It was Kyrie that made the big plays, including that huge shot. They're gonna get run over by the Warriors and it's gonna be so fun to watch

[Synthetic]

15 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Brian Windhorst has said many times LeBron is the GOAT. He one of the biggest names in Basketball that works for ESPN. Everyday if you tune into Mike and Mike or FirstTake and listen to Stephen A and Max talk, both say he is 2nd behind Jordan but if he beats the Warriors this season than he should be considered the GOAT. I am giving you big names so you don't think I am full of it. Having said that, I am starting to careless about GOAT debates anymore because it's all subjective and no matter how hard I try to convince you or anyone that I don't even think LeBron is in the Top 5 it will do no good. You wont convince me he is 2nd or the GOAT either so really all of my rants and your responses are just a waste of space regarding that subject. I just hope the Finals is a good one and goes 7 games actually because these Playoffs have sucked so far. Also if LeBron does somehow beat the Warriors than I think he definitely deserves Top 5 then, that would be his 4th Championship to go along with his Stats, etc.. + beating the Warriors would be very impressive 2 years in a row.

 

 

Do you even listen to Steven A Smith? He's the one on ESPN who flat out says Jordan is the best ever, and it's "blasphemous" to suggest anything else. I'm not convinced you actually listen to him....

 

Here is a video to prove my point. Here is "the media" you claim just looooooooooves LeBron and gives no respect to precious MJ! Listen how offended Steven A Smith gets and how crazy these people act over a suggestion that LeBron could be the GOAT.

 

 

 

 

 

Key point here, SECOND to Jordan. That isn't good enough for you though, here you are admitting that they don't think he's the GOAT, they say he's second place...So yeah, you are full of it. If that's what you're upset about, wow...You go on and on and on about this though. You say you don't care, but for someone that supposedly don't care about someone else's opinions, you sure do go off ranting and fret about it quite often. You sure spent quite a lot of time lecturing me over it. Any time I or someone else praise LeBron James, you show up with that same tired argument you go in circles with which is "yeah he's good, but here's my list of players who are way better and he'll never be close to them unless he gets more rings!!" 

 

Everyone can easily blame "the media" on things they don't like. Next time, actually post links, instead of "well I heard this...", cause I can name a lot of people in the media who flat out hate LeBron James and I can't believe you even suggest Steven A Smith would praise him over MJ as the GOAT, cause it's so easy to pull videos of him ranting off about how Jordan is the greatest player ever. Do a quick search for 'Steven A Smith, Michael Jordan' on Youtube, and look at the number of videos that pop up. "The media" isn't in love with LeBron James, no matter how many times you claim they are. Go check out Skip Bayless, you would enjoy him since all he ever does is rant about LeBron when he isn't bashing Aaron Rodgers. Go check his Twitter feed, it's nothing but LeBron bashing, you'll enjoy it. 

 

But being called "second to Jordan" isn't good enough, obviously. Cause when someone says he's the second best or one of the best, you break out your list and go of on and on in your wild rants about how LeBron will never be good enough. I have to wonder, did LeBron set your house on fire or do something to you a long time ago? Cause you sure do go off on him like it's a personal vendetta. You just flat out said it - he's not even top 5, therefore anyone who suggests he's great, you have to give them a lecture about how crazy they are to suggest a thing. Most of the time, you use that ring argument (which is hilarious since you get offended if someone uses it against NFL quarterbacks)  I never see you ever mention past players unless you're bashing LeBron James, it's the "yeah he's good, but let me tell you why X, Y, and Z are so much better and they got more rings." 

 

Since you love that ring argument so much, ever heard of a guy named Robert Horry? He has 7 rings, one more than MJ and he's not even in the Hall of Fame. So I guess by that logic, he's better than most, huh? Derek Fisher also has 5 rings but he never gets put in those silly lists either and probably won't even get his number retired in L.A. if they draft Lonzo Ball. Scottie Pippen also has 6 rings, and is probably the best player of the 90's who never gets praise in the same sentence MJ's name is used. 

 

You constantly accuse me of saying LeBron is the GOAT just cause I say he's among the best ever. Since you told me a while back to "check the archives' maybe, you should...See if you can quote me calling him the GOAT. I called him one of them, and for the record; not far off from where most others praise him. The guy I said who probably is the hands down GOAT in my book was Wilt Chamberlain, that's just my opinion after reading several books on Wilt and having studied his contributions to the game. I've also told you before many times from my perspective; I don't think it's fair to judge past NBA players to current ones cause each era has specific rule changes that altered the game and it's unfair to judge them freely without taking that into consideration. For example; Wilt played in an era before there was a 3 point line and the lane was smaller (the lane was changed specifically because of him), that's just how I view things from my opinion. 

 

It's why I refuse to engage with you anymore. You don't want to debate...You want someone to agree with you. And you make it almost political with how it's "the media" to blame, or "LeBron fans" or "Cavs fans" who disagree with you (I guess everyone who disagrees must be a LeBron fan!). It's a "me vs them" mentality with you, which makes debating extremely uncomfortable since it's a personalized angle.

 

 

For the record; LeBron James has NOTHING left to prove anymore. If you still hate him after his accomplishment last year, than I don't expect that to change regardless what he accomplishes in the future. He fulfilled his promise to deliver a championship to Cleveland and did it under the circumstances of coming back from a 3-1 deficit. Not only did LeBron prove everyone wrong last year, he proved naysayers such as myself wrong, who said he should've stayed in Miami. If that's not good enough, then nothing is.

 

No, he don't have to beat the Warriors again. He's already done that...If what he did last year wasn't enough for certain people to respect him, than nothing will. I'm sure if he loses, you'll be quick to call him a "choker" against a historically favored loaded Warriors team, who even have Kevin Durant who isn't even one of their top 3 best players (oh the irony; LeBron forms a super team he's the villain. Durant goes to a team who won 73 games to ride their coattails and that's fine). For most, it's done and over with. LeBron secured his legacy already. He has nothing left to prove.  

 

 

 

 

[Chrisaaron1023]

Cavs iso kyrie the rest of the game...blah

[2006Coltsbestever]

21 minutes ago, Synthetic said:

 

 

Do you even listen to Steven A Smith? He's the one on ESPN who flat out says Jordan is the best ever, and it's "blasphemous" to suggest anything else. I'm not convinced you actually listen to him....

 

Here is a video to prove my point. Here is "the media" you claim just looooooooooves LeBron and gives no respect to precious MJ! Listen how offended Steven A Smith gets and how crazy these people act over a suggestion that LeBron could be the GOAT.

 

 

 

 

 

Key point here, SECOND to Jordan. That isn't good enough for you though, here you are admitting that they don't think he's the GOAT, they say he's second place...So yeah, you are full of it. If that's what you're upset about, wow...You go on and on and on about this though. You say you don't care, but for someone that supposedly don't care about someone else's opinions, you sure do go off ranting and fret about it quite often. You sure spent quite a lot of time lecturing me over it. Any time I or someone else praise LeBron James, you show up with that same tired argument you go in circles with which is "yeah he's good, but here's my list of players who are way better and he'll never be close to them unless he gets more rings!!" 

 

Everyone can easily blame "the media" on things they don't like. Next time, actually post links, instead of "well I heard this...", cause I can name a lot of people in the media who flat out hate LeBron James and I can't believe you even suggest Steven A Smith would praise him, cause it's so easy to pull videos of him ranting off about how Jordan is the greatest player ever. Do a quick search for 'Steven A Smith, Michael Jordan' on Youtube, and look at the number of videos that pop up. "The media" isn't in love with LeBron James, no matter how many times you claim they are. Go check out Skip Bayless, you would enjoy him since all he ever does is rant about LeBron when he isn't bashing Aaron Rodgers. Go check his Twitter feed, it's nothing but LeBron bashing, you'll enjoy it. 

 

But being called "second to Jordan" isn't good enough, obviously. Cause when someone says he's the second best or one of the best, you break out your list and go of on and on in your wild rants about how LeBron will never be good enough. I have to wonder, did LeBron set your house on fire or do something to you a long time ago? Cause you sure do go off on him like it's a personal vendetta. You just flat out said it - he's not even top 5, therefore anyone who suggests he's great, you have to give them a lecture about how crazy they are to suggest a thing. Most of the time, you use that ring argument (which is hilarious since you get offended if someone uses it against NFL quarterbacks)  I never see you ever mention past players unless you're bashing LeBron James, it's the "yeah he's good, but let me tell you why X, Y, and Z are so much better and they got more rings." 

 

Since you love that ring argument so much, ever heard of a guy named Robert Horry? He has 7 rings, one more than MJ and he's not even in the Hall of Fame. So I guess by that logic, he's better than most, huh? Derek Fisher also has 5 rings but he never gets put in those silly lists either and probably won't even get his number retired in L.A. if they draft Lonzo Ball. Scottie Pippen also has 6 rings, and is probably the best player of the 90's who never gets praise in the same sentence MJ's name is used. 

 

You constantly accuse me of saying LeBron is the GOAT just cause I say he's among the best ever. Since you told me a while back to "check the archives' maybe, you should...See if you can quote me calling him the GOAT. I called him one of them, and for the record; not far off from where most others praise him. The guy I said who probably is the hands down GOAT in my book was Wilt Chamberlain, that's just my opinion after reading several books on Wilt and having studied his contributions to the game. I've also told you before many times from my perspective; I don't think it's fair to judge past NBA players to current ones cause each era has specific rule changes that altered the game and it's unfair to judge them freely without taking that into consideration. For example; Wilt played in an era before there was a 3 point line and the lane was smaller (the lane was changed specifically because of him), that's just how I view things from my opinion. 

 

It's why I refuse to engage with you anymore. You don't want to debate...You want someone to agree with you. And you make it almost political with how it's "the media" to blame, or "LeBron fans" or "Cavs fans" who disagree with you (I guess everyone who disagrees must be a LeBron fan!). It's a "me vs them" mentality with you, which makes debating extremely uncomfortable since it's a personalized angle.

 

 

For the record; LeBron James has NOTHING left to prove anymore. If you still hate him after his accomplishment last year, than I don't expect that to change regardless what he accomplishes in the future. He fulfilled his promise to deliver a championship to Cleveland and did it under the circumstances of coming back from a 3-1 deficit. Not only did LeBron prove everyone wrong last year, he proved naysayers such as myself wrong, who said he should've stayed in Miami. If that's not good enough, then nothing is.

 

No, he don't have to beat the Warriors again. He's already done that...If what he did last year wasn't enough for certain people to respect him, than nothing will. I'm sure if he loses, you'll be quick to call him a "choker" against a historically favored loaded Warriors team, who even have Kevin Durant who isn't even one of their top 3 best players (oh the irony; LeBron forms a super team he's the villain. Durant goes to a team who won 73 games to ride their coattails and that's fine). For most, it's done and over with. LeBron secured his legacy already. He has nothing left to prove.  

 

 

 

 

The problem with debating with you is, you think just because I don't have LeBron in My Top 5 I am a Hater or don't think he's Great. That is completely false. Saying someone is only Top 10 and not Top 5 isn't a dis at all considering there have been thousands of players that have played the game. Even when I compliment LeBron like say he is Top 10 ever and I would consider him Top 5 if he beats the Warriors, you just point out when I bash him for some reason. I say he is the best player today and better than Durant but you ignore that too! Out of curiosity I would love to hear your criteria for ranking players because if it's based on Stats and Championships, than it is very debatable that LeBron is Top 5. Peyton Manning won 5 League MVP's and is better than Tom Brady in every key statistical category but you poo poo that because Brady has more Rings. It's ok for you to do that but when I criticize LeBron for anything I am hater in your book. You are actually the biggest Peyton Manning hater I have ever seen so 2 can play at this game. I cant debate with you because you don't see both sides of my argument, you just see me as a hater and for the record I cant stand Skip Bayless either. He is a Luck hater and I disagree with him about 90% of the time.

[Malakai432]

It was funny I texted my buddy at half that there's no way Lebron James even gets one more foul the rest of the game.  Yes, I'm a prophet and can read the future!  

 

All kidding aside, Kyrie just flat out was unstoppable this game.  Celtics had them by the balls but you knew things would change in the second.  They just need to bring on this Warriors/Cavs series. 

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Out of curiosity I would love to hear your criteria for ranking players because if it's based on Stats and Championships, than it is very debatable that LeBron is Top 5.

This is what ticks me off about people I know personally.  They talk smack about Peyton, love Lebron James and swear by him already being the best.    One of them is a Bears and Cubs fan which just makes it so much worse.  I love it when a Bears fan tells me the Colts suck lol!

 

That being said they're usually young millennials or tweeners that don't know anything so I usually take what they say with a grain of salt.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Also bringing up guys like Robert Horry and Derek Fisher is downright silly regarding a Ring argument and everyone knows that. The Ring argument is mainly between the Elite of players of all-time (best player on their team or 2nd best player on some teams), not Role players. Quit reaching.

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, Malakai432 said:

It was funny I texted my buddy at half that there's no way Lebron James even gets one more foul the rest of the game.  Yes, I'm a prophet and can read the future!  

 

All kidding aside, Kyrie just flat out was unstoppable this game.  Celtics had them by the balls but you knew things would change in the second.  They just need to bring on this Warriors/Cavs series. 

 

 

 

This is what ticks me off about people I know personally.  They talk smack about Peyton, love Lebron James and swear by him already being the best.    One of them is a Bears and Cubs fan which just makes it so much worse.  I love it when a Bears fan tells me the Colts suck lol!

 

That being said they're usually young millennials or tweeners that don't know anything so I usually take what they say with a grain of salt.

Yeah I mean how can anyone say LeBron is the GOAT or 2nd best, then in the same breath poo poo Peyton because he doesn't have the Rings that Brady has. That is so nuts it's comical. Even Duncan has more Rings than LeBron and Duncan was an alpha dog/greatest PF ever if we are playing the Ring argument for GREATEST PLAYERS - not ROLE PLAYERS.