Trey Williams has been more impressive than Ferguson IMO

[RockThatBlue]

Anyone else think so? 

 

Watching Ferguson reminds me of what Kerwynn Williams looked like a few years ago. Starting to think maybe he got a little too much hype.

[Superman]

Not really. They're similar to me, Williams is a little more stout and finishes better, but either of them will be at their best in a scat back role. They both showed what they can do in that role tonight, and Ferguson's angle route that got stopped at the 1 is exactly how he should be used. Trying to run him between the tackles is probably not a good idea. Have to get him out in space.

[twfish]

They aren't playing Ferguson the way he should. He's not an up the gut back, give him some pitches and let him go outside way more. Plus they really need to give him a screen and get him catching balls. Part of me almost wonders if they are running him up the gut and not showing his strengths so we have a good chance to stash him on PS?

[RockThatBlue]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

Not really. They're similar to me, Williams is a little more stout and finishes better, but either of them will be at their best in a scat back role. They both showed what they can do in that role tonight, and Ferguson's angle route that got stopped at the 1 is exactly how he should be used. Trying to run him between the tackles is probably not a good idea. Have to get him out in space.

Fair point Supe. But Fergusons pass blocking leaves a lot to be desired too imo.

 

I agree that running Ferguson up the gut is pretty stupid. Thats clearly not what hes built for. Not sure why Williams is played differently than Ferguson. Maybe Ferguson would look better if they didn't run him up the gut so much.

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

Not really. They're similar to me, Williams is a little more stout and finishes better, but either of them will be at their best in a scat back role. They both showed what they can do in that role tonight, and Ferguson's angle route that got stopped at the 1 is exactly how he should be used. Trying to run him between the tackles is probably not a good idea. Have to get him out in space.

That right there has been puzzling me the entire time!  Ferguson is not a between the tackles runner yet,  his best use is to run him wide as a one cut/cutback type of runner.  Why they are persisting to run him between the tackles is puzzling to me.   I've always liked Trey Williams though!

[Superman]

1 minute ago, RockThatBlue said:

Fair point Supe. But Fergusons pass blocking leaves a lot to be desired too imo.

 

I agree that running Ferguson up the gut is pretty stupid. Thats clearly not what hes built for. Not sure why Williams is played differently than Ferguson. Maybe Ferguson would look better if they didn't run him up the gut so much.

 

Ferguson had a couple nice protections today.

[Gavin]

Both are good with competent coaching/playcalling designed to utilize there strengths. I agree with Superman however that Williams is a bit more stout. Not built to take a pounding but he is no toothpick. Just a shame we don't appear to have competent O Linemen that can run block and understand the idea of taking a D Lineman where he wants to go while the running back reads that and reacts according running through that open hole. Swear its a joke we make run blocking look as hard as rocket science

[krunk]

21 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Anyone else think so? 

 

Watching Ferguson reminds me of what Kerwynn Williams looked like a few years ago. Starting to think maybe he got a little too much hype.

I like both of them, but Williams a little bit better.  I've always thought he was the most similar to Darren Sproles out of all of them.  He needs to get more carries to show more of what he has because he is talented.  I never thought that all of the opportunity should just be handed to Ferguson.  It should be an even competition in my mind. 

[BlueShoe]

I don't typically agree with these type of posts, but Trey Williams reminds me of a young Dominic Rhodes. 

[RockThatBlue]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Ferguson had a couple nice protections today.

Maybe I'm just nitpicking a little. But with all the hype hes received I thought I'd see more. But maybe thats not even his fault. I'm sure he doesn't like running up the gut every time either.

[RockThatBlue]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

I like both of them, but Williams a little bit better.  I've always thought he was the most similar to Darren Sproles out of all of them.  He needs to get more carries to show more of what he has because he is talented.  I never thought that all of the opportunity should just be handed to Ferguson.  It should be an even competition in my mind. 

Good points as always Krunk. Trey had a nasty spin move tonight. I like him a lot.

[NorthernBlue]

10 minutes ago, twfish said:

They aren't playing Ferguson the way he should. He's not an up the gut back, give him some pitches and let him go outside way more. Plus they really need to give him a screen and get him catching balls. Part of me almost wonders if they are running him up the gut and not showing his strengths so we have a good chance to stash him on PS?

But why would they (the coaching staff and management) talk him up so much in camp if their intention was to just stash him on the practice squad? And while I don't think he's a star (at least not yet), Josh Ferguson can still be useful for the team this season. Like Krunk and Supe said, throw him some screens, get him out in space and see what he can do.

[krunk]

Now I think that if you give Trey Williams some of those same runs that Ferguson has had the result would probably be a little different. Williams would shoot it up in there more decisively.  He's got more balance than Ferguson along with more speed.  Williams has home run speed.

[krunk]

Outside of that nice catch Ferguson had on the angle route, the one quick hitch type of throw that we did to get Ferguson in space he dropped it.   I'll have to go back and look at it again because Venturi kind of blamed that one on how Tolzien threw the ball to him. 

[RockThatBlue]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

Outside of that nice catch Ferguson had on the angle route, the one quick hitch type of throw that we did to get Ferguson in space he dropped it.   I'll have to go back and look at it again because Venturi kind of blamed that one on how Tolzien threw the ball to him. 

Tolzien threw that one too hard imo. I dont think Ferguson was expecting a bullet with how close he was to Tolzien.

[krunk]

5 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Good points as always Krunk. Trey had a nasty spin move tonight. I like him a lot.

Williams can straight break people down once he gets in a groove.  He can make some nasty cuts that most backs can't.  It's very easy for him to make 2 or 3 cuts in small space that leave people hanging on. 

[Johnny Bui]

i really hope we keep williams. he has some ahmad bradshaw in him.  And Ahmad Bradshaw is one of my favorite RB to watch.

[krunk]

7 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Tolzien threw that one too hard imo. I dont think Ferguson was expecting a bullet with how close he was to Tolzien.

I do think Ferguson is talented, but I've always felt that Williams had more explosiveness in terms of ability to make a game changing run.  The knock on him from what I know coming out of college was his size and pass protection.  Plus coming out of the spread system there are a limited amount of runs. Most of it is out of the shotgun.  From what I could tell Ferguson came out of a spread system too at Illinois.  I very rarely saw him running out of traditional formations that you would see in the NFL.  That also may be a part of the reason why we haven't seen what we thought we were going to see from all the training camp talk. 

[BlueShoe]

I think Trey makes the practice squad and we keep the top 4:

 

Runningbacks
1	23	Frank Gore	RB	Miami (FL)	5'9"	217
2	33	Robert Turbin	RB	Utah State	5'10"	222
3	34	Josh Ferguson	RB	Illinois	5'9"	198
4	28	Jordan Todman	RB	Connecticut	5'9"	203
5	40	Trey Williams	RB	Texas A&M	5'7"	195
6	35	Chase Price	RB	San Diego State	5'8"	200

[krunk]

Honestly I think if they would give Trey Williams some more carries, specifically with the 1s or 2s he'll show even more. I just think he's got a lot of talent .

[RockThatBlue]

With how Trey has played he probably wouldn't last a week on the PS. Someone would almost certainly pick him up.

[Gavin]

17 minutes ago, krunk said:

I do think Ferguson is talented, but I've always felt that Williams had more explosiveness in terms of ability to make a game changing run.  The knock on him from what I know coming out of college was his size and pass protection.  Plus coming out of the spread system there are a limited amount of runs. Most of it is out of the shotgun.  From what I could tell Ferguson came out of a spread system too at Illinois.  I very rarely saw him running out of traditional formations that you would see in the NFL. 

I'm expecting we keep both. One on PS and 1 on active roster or both on PS. Todman will have a say in that though. He had 26 yards today on only 6 total touches receiving/running

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 hour ago, RockThatBlue said:

Maybe I'm just nitpicking a little. But with all the hype hes received I thought I'd see more. But maybe thats not even his fault. I'm sure he doesn't like running up the gut every time either.

 

He went undrafted. How much legitimate hype could he have received?

If he makes the team or even ps, thats good for a udfa.

[RockThatBlue]

1 minute ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

He went undrafted. How much legitimate hype could he have received?

If he makes the team or even ps, thats good for a udfa.

Well there was talk about him possibly being the #2 RB. 

[krunk]

I'm still trying to understand why we keep running Ferguson up the gut?  Maybe we'll get to see some more of the playbook against the Eagles since that one will be game planned.  You typically see more of the playbook used in that 3rd preseason game so we'll see I guess.  It doesn't fit his skill set to be running up the gut and between the tackles all the time. 

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, RockThatBlue said:

Well there was talk about him possibly being the #2 RB. 

 

I think that was due to people down-playing just how good Turbin and Todman really are. Not that either is going to the Pro Bowl anytime soon, but they are no chumps. Barring injury, both should make the team. 

 

I like our running back situation right now. We have a good mix of veterans and younger players. Different types of runners too.

 

I think Jim Irsay is forever going to be haunted by the mistake of passing up Sproles. Problem is, we want to compare all scat-backs to Sproles, but he is a one of a kind cat. As much as people want to believe that great running backs are falling out of trees; it doesn't work that way. If we want a chance at a player that good then we had better be willing to gamble a high draft pick on it. There is not a very good chance of us finding a player of that caliber who fell out of the draft. 

[Superman]

3 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Tolzien threw that one too hard imo. I dont think Ferguson was expecting a bullet with how close he was to Tolzien.

 

And it was high. I think a defender jumped in the lane and Tolzien had to change his arm angle. 

 

Speaking of Tolzien, his mechanics bother me. He double clutches too often, taking his left hand off the ball, patting the ball, etc. He has a good arm, but he doesn't protect the ball well when he's in the pocket, and patting the ball only helps the defense break on his throws.  I'm starting to prefer Morris, especially with his speed. 

[RockThatBlue]

25 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

And it was high. I think a defender jumped in the lane and Tolzien had to change his arm angle. 

 

Speaking of Tolzien, his mechanics bother me. He double clutches too often, taking his left hand off the ball, patting the ball, etc. He has a good arm, but he doesn't protect the ball well when he's in the pocket, and patting the ball only helps the defense break on his throws.  I'm starting to prefer Morris, especially with his speed. 

Morris certainly has some nice speed. Not only with that one long run he had, but he damn near caught up to the defender on the returned 2 pt conversion. 

 

It will be interesting to see who becomes Lucks back up. I used to think for sure it would be Tolzien but Morris is making a strong case. Morris would be picked up in 2 seconds if he was put on the PS. 

 

Man, there are gonna be more hard cuts this year than I can remember. We seem to have pretty solid depth almost everywhere. Quite a few good players will be cut.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

I'm still trying to understand why we keep running Ferguson up the gut?  Maybe we'll get to see some more of the playbook against the Eagles since that one will be game planned.  You typically see more of the playbook used in that 3rd preseason game so we'll see I guess.  It doesn't fit his skill set to be running up the gut and between the tackles all the time. 

 

I think we run Ferguson up the gut for two reasons.

 

1.     We have to run SOMEBODY up the gut and since Gore isn't playing yet,  and Ferguson appears to be next up then he gets the snaps.     The OL has to get plenty of snaps blocking for runs between the tackles.

 

2.    It's a good thing to run Ferguson up the gut, at least a little,  because if we only run him to the outside then he becomes predictable to opposing defenses.

 

I think things will evolve in the running game once we reach the regular season and Gore is back.....    Things will settle down and make more sense....

 

[Jason_]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think we run Ferguson up the gut for two reasons.

 

1.     We have to run SOMEBODY up the gut and since Gore isn't playing yet,  and Ferguson appears to be next up then he gets the snaps.     The OL has to get plenty of snaps blocking for runs between the tackles.

 

2.    It's a good thing to run Ferguson up the gut, at least a little,  because if we only run him to the outside then he becomes predictable to opposing defenses.

 

I think things will evolve in the running game once we reach the regular season and Gore is back.....    Things will settle down and make more sense....

 

 

Tip of the hat to you for this one. Ok sear hung through the emoticons on my phone is a bit more cumbersome than I expected, so instead of the guy tipping his hat, you get an obviously excited flamingo

 

[Jason_]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think we run Ferguson up the gut for two reasons.

 

1.     We have to run SOMEBODY up the gut and since Gore isn't playing yet,  and Ferguson appears to be next up then he gets the snaps.     The OL has to get plenty of snaps blocking for runs between the tackles.

 

2.    It's a good thing to run Ferguson up the gut, at least a little,  because if we only run him to the outside then he becomes predictable to opposing defenses.

 

I think things will evolve in the running game once we reach the regular season and Gore is back.....    Things will settle down and make more sense....

 

 

Oh and I'll also add a third possible reason...maybe they want to see if Ferguson can get better at running between the tackles. 

[krunk]

9 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Morris certainly has some nice speed. Not only with that one long run he had, but he damn near caught up to the defender on the returned 2 pt conversion. 

 

It will be interesting to see who becomes Lucks back up. I used to think for sure it would be Tolzien but Morris is making a strong case. Morris would be picked up in 2 seconds if he was put on the PS. 

 

Man, there are gonna be more hard cuts this year than I can remember. We seem to have pretty solid depth almost everywhere. Quite a few good players will be cut.

give me Morris too

[Rally5]

13 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

But why would they (the coaching staff and management) talk him up so much in camp if their intention was to just stash him on the practice squad? And while I don't think he's a star (at least not yet), Josh Ferguson can still be useful for the team this season. Like Krunk and Supe said, throw him some screens, get him out in space and see what he can do.

 

Some NFL teams (not all) will hide players in the final pre-season game ... usually not games 1-3 with the idea being they know they like him but not for the final 53, so they don't want to advertise their guy to other squads. So when you see guys you like that have performed well disappear in G4 of the PS then you know we like him for the practice squad.  Now there are teams that absolutely do not do this because they want the player to have every opportunity to make an active roster, it's philosophical usually unless a team really likes a players developmental prospects.  

[CanuckColt]

14 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Fair point Supe. But Fergusons pass blocking leaves a lot to be desired too imo.

 

I agree that running Ferguson up the gut is pretty stupid. Thats clearly not what hes built for. Not sure why Williams is played differently than Ferguson. Maybe Ferguson would look better if they didn't run him up the gut so much.

Yeah, the announcers were saying that when Ferguson was in there it was an 'invitation to blitz'.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

Tip of the hat to you for this one. Ok sear hung through the emoticons on my phone is a bit more cumbersome than I expected, so instead of the guy tipping his hat, you get an obviously excited flamingo

 

 

My first excited Flamingo!!        I hope it's the first of many more!                      

[throwing BBZ]

15 hours ago, Gavin said:

Both are good with competent coaching/playcalling designed to utilize there strengths. I agree with Superman however that Williams is a bit more stout. Not built to take a pounding but he is no toothpick. Just a shame we don't appear to have competent O Linemen that can run block and understand the idea of taking a D Lineman where he wants to go while the running back reads that and reacts according running through that open hole. Swear its a joke we make run blocking look as hard as rocket science

 Thank you sir for this quality assessment.
  Or getting our Guards to pull outside, chuckle!
  And if Kelly can get out there i will be surprised.
  D-Coordinators will enjoy game planning for our run game IMO!

[richard pallo]

I have to admit I too have been disappointed in Ferguson so far.  The Colts like him a lot and so far they have given him a lot of opportunities with poor results.  I think the pressure is really on him in the next game.   I like Turbin and Todman above Ferguson.  The 4th spot is a toss up.  In regards to our run game I think we are going to be primarily a run between the tackles team anyway.  The addition of Kelly and Good, both big men,  seems to bode well for that strategy.  One is a rookie the other a second year player switching positions.  They have only played the part of two preseason games but the potential is really there.  I also think Chuck has always preferred the power run game.  He tried to get it with TR and AB and now FG.  He might have the line to do it now.  We shall see. 

[RockThatBlue]

5 hours ago, krunk said:

give me Morris too

Morris has some nice upside IMO. Probably more upside than Tolzien. I know it probably won't happen but it would be interesting to see if Morris could play WR if the QB thing somehow doesn't end up working out. 

[Douzer]

19 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Anyone else think so? 

 

Watching Ferguson reminds me of what Kerwynn Williams looked like a few years ago. Starting to think maybe he got a little too much hype.

I agree. I have the order of merit at:

1.) Gore

2.) Turbin

T3) Todman / Williams

5) Ferguson

 

Ferguson is working hard, but his awareness and technique in pass protection is problematic.

[Archer]

Hard to say, given how in love with Ferguson everyone seemed to be in TC.  After everything so far, I'd guess that Ferguson and Williams are battling for the third and final RB spot on the Active Roster at the final cut-down, with the loser going to the PS.  What happens when Turbin comes back from suspension after week 4, I don't know.  Turbin s/b the #2 at that time, but Todman, Williams, and Ferguson will then be competing for one or two roster spots...