A Concern About Chud

[Jason_]

2 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

regressing?  You mean hurt right?   Because up until this year he was getting better.  He "regressed" against two of the top defenses in the league at the time and then got hurt.   Sorry not buying it.  

 

I really don't care what you buy and what you don't.  Pep was deservedly fired and this has been explained to you numerous times.  

 

ps. Luck's shoulder injury had nothing to do with Luck making poor decisions with the football.  His throws would have been affected, but not the decisions he made on who to throw the ball to.  

[Tsarquise]

3 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

I really don't care what you buy and what you don't.  Pep was deservedly fired and this has been explained to you numerous times.  

 

ps. Luck's shoulder injury had nothing to do with Luck making poor decisions with the football.  His throws would have been affected, but not the decisions he made on who to throw the ball to.  

Isn't that on Luck or Christensen though? Pep wasn't the QB coach...

[Superman]

 

 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Tsarquise said:

Isn't that on Luck or Christensen though? Pep wasn't the QB coach...

 

The play calling and gameplanning was on Pep. They were bad, Pep got fired. He's not the first offensive coordinator to get fired for bad play calling and gameplanning, and he won't be the last.

[JPFolks]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The play calling and gameplanning was on Pep. They were bad, Pep got fired. He's not the first offensive coordinator to get fired for bad play calling and gameplanning, and he won't be the last.

We either get it fixed or it will be somebody else getting it fixed. -- Chuck Pagano

 

Hey Superman, you might want to find a new tag line... they didn't fix it, but he's still here, so they did not go to someone else to fix it.  

[Coltfreak]

44 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

I really don't care what you buy and what you don't.  Pep was deservedly fired and this has been explained to you numerous times.  

 

ps. Luck's shoulder injury had nothing to do with Luck making poor decisions with the football.  His throws would have been affected, but not the decisions he made on who to throw the ball to.  

so you are blaming Luck not Pep?  

 

You are really confusing.

 

 

[Superman]

18 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

 

Hey Superman, you might want to find a new tag line... they didn't fix it, but he's still here, so they did not go to someone else to fix it.  

 

Meh. Colts had lots of issues this year. I think the run defense was less of a problem, and the players brought in make me think it will continue getting better.

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, Coltfreak said:

so you are blaming Luck not Pep?  

 

You are really confusing.

 

 

 

no, you're just really argumentative.  Pep was fired.  He's gone.  He's not coming back.  It's time to pick up the shattered remains of your existence and try to move on.

[Coltfreak]

Just now, Jason_S said:

 

no, you're just really argumentative.  Pep was fired.  He's gone.  He's not coming back.  It's time to pick up the shattered remains of your existence and try to move on.

 

 

didnt even get the bat off of your shoulder on that one.

[throwing BBZ]

43 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

Isn't that on Luck or Christensen though? Pep wasn't the QB coach...

 

 So Clyde throws it around some too?
 Face it, after 4 years what is Proven is, Andrew is a slow thinker. He Takes time!

[Jason_]

5 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

 

 

didnt even get the bat off of your shoulder on that one.

 

he's a pet and his name is Herman...he always rests on my shoulder.  

[Traines]

10 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

 

 

didnt even get the bat off of your shoulder on that one.

Do us all a favor, and pull your bottom lip over your head and swallow.

[Coltfreak]

20 minutes ago, Traines said:

Do us all a favor, and pull your bottom lip over your head and swallow.

 

 

Why do you have to insult?   It would be better if you had even a little to add the conversation.  You are truly  a disappointment. 

[Jason_]

3 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

 

 

Why do you have to insult?   It would be better if you had even a little to add the conversation.  You are truly  a disappointment. 

 

[ColtRider]

On January 13, 2016 at 0:34 PM, Superman said:

If the offense does well, Chud will be a hot candidate. There's no question about that. He's already viewed around the league as a sympathetic figure, a coach who got fired very prematurely by a dysfunctional organization. I think teams will be eager to interview him.

 

Maybe he's learned the value of choosing wisely, though. He was a Browns fan growing up, so that job had some allure to him, but I doubt he'll be willing to take just any job moving forward. I bet he'll be interested in the stability of ownership and management, he'll be interested in their QB situation, etc. 

 

The Colts should have a good succession plan in place. I fear that that plan involves Christensen moving up to OC if/when Chud takes another job. Christensen ought to know the Air Coryell stuff as well as Luck by now, having worked with Arians and now with Chud. And the old Manning/Moore stuff had vestiges of the vertical offense. So it's a logical progression. The problem is that Christensen was a bad coordinator. He had bad QBs and an unfavorable situation and a bad head coach, but our head coach still isn't good on offense. Coaches get better sometimes, but I'd rather not have Christensen running the offense.

 

As for the Steve Smith stuff, I always felt that was unfair. They ran a good offense with Chud, and that's the primary consideration. They had an athletic QB who was still developing as a passer, and Chud accentuated his strengths while not asking him to do things he wasn't really good at. When Cam was a rookie, they were 5th in scoring, and Tolbert wasn't even there yet. Cam got a lot of goal line TDs instead of the backs, which caused some frustration. The next year, Tolbert didn't get a ton of touches, but he still had 7 TDs. They platooned their backs and Cam got a lot of carries, but they still had a decent rushing defense. I thought Smith's frustration came from not getting a lot of red zone looks and TD opportunities.

 

Beautiful post, MOS! Right on the money as usual. I'll add that the Air Coryell stuff doesn't bother me as a generic. The mix of the West Coast on a lower level combined with the AC system points toward the "Slice & Dice" offenses that do so well in this league. I'm very much looking forward to see how Chud incorporates various branches of these. With Andrew 100% healthy @ the start of next season, it should be fun to watch.

[ColtRider]

On January 13, 2016 at 0:28 PM, Steamboat_Shaun said:

I think the "this is Luck's Xth coordinator in X years," is somewhat of a played out narrative, he's not the type to have any issues learning a new playbook. He's practically a genius, and could probably learn a new offense in his sleep. It's the other 10 guys on offense not being on the same page as him that I'm worried about.

 

That probably seems like splitting hairs, but the real concern shouldn't be Luck's ability to adapt to a new OC. And as far as Chud goes, I really can't say for sure what his intentions are, but if he really wanted a HC gig, this would've been a great year to throw his hat in the mix. Plenty of vacancies. But he signed with the Colts instead, and I thought it was for 4 years (not 100% on that), so I do believe he'll be here for the next 2 seasons, minimum.

 

SS, during some of the latter games when Chudzinski took over as OC, I saw Andrew Luck's eyes & face light up like a Christmas tree on the sidelines. If that's any indication of how his adaptation to Chud's new up & coming playbook is designed, I'm quite confident we'll see that look again.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, ColtRider said:

 

Beautiful post, MOS! Right on the money as usual. I'll add that the Air Coryell stuff doesn't bother me as a generic. The mix of the West Coast on a lower level combined with the AC system points toward the "Slice & Dice" offenses that do so well in this league. I'm very much looking forward to see how Chud incorporates various branches of these. With Andrew 100% healthy @ the start of next season, it should be fun to watch.

 

If the Denver game is any indication, things should be okay with Chud. 

[Coltfreak]

27 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

 

 

again great that you jump in where you werent a part of that conversation.  He doesnt need defended.  He can fight his own battles.

 

Dont be mad because I poked holes in your assessment of the OC.    Just go study up and come back with a better argument.    That is why we are all here right?   Or are you Stepford too?

 

Yes I'm black?  Is that why you dont like Pep?   Sad to be you. Hope you get help

[Coltfreak]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If the Denver game is any indication, things should be okay with Chud. 

 

Not sure why everyone is putting their faith in ONE GAME.  But that is the mentality here and everywhere.  One person says it one agrees and its gospel from there on out.

 

Lets get back to the origin of this thread.  What has Chud done that impresses you?  The Denver game?  That all you got?  One yr in Cleveland?  Seriously?

 

While I dont want him to go anywhere, and I am glad they resigned him as OC,  it is initial speculation like this that will eventually make people hate Chud if he performs like he has historically.  He could be the same as he always has but the expectations are being set WAY to high and its not fair to anyone including him.

 

Chud hasn't done anything yet.  Dont make him bigger than he is.  Plenty of games Pep called that were better than the Denver game.

 

 

[Superman]

15 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Not sure why everyone is putting their faith in ONE GAME.  But that is the mentality here and everywhere.  One person says it one agrees and its gospel from there on out.

 

Lets get back to the origin of this thread.  What has Chud done that impresses you?  The Denver game?  That all you got?  One yr in Cleveland?  Seriously?

 

While I dont want him to go anywhere, and I am glad they resigned him as OC,  it is initial speculation like this that will eventually make people hate Chud if he performs like he has historically.  He could be the same as he always has but the expectations are being set WAY to high and its not fair to anyone including him.

 

Chud hasn't done anything yet.  Dont make him bigger than he is.  Plenty of games Pep called that were better than the Denver game.

 

This is silly.

 

I said "IF." In other words, if that's what Chud's approach will be, if that's his vision for the offense, then that should work well for this team. That's not hard to understand unless you're being stubborn.

 

The original point of this thread wasn't about whether Chud is impressive. But if we're talking about Chud's work as a coordinator, then we would talk about how he ran the offense in Carolina.

 

But that's not what we're talking about. You're just on the same crusade, and I'm over it. 

[Coltfreak]

37 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This is silly.

 

I said "IF." In other words, if that's what Chud's approach will be, if that's his vision for the offense, then that should work well for this team. That's not hard to understand unless you're being stubborn.

 

The original point of this thread wasn't about whether Chud is impressive. But if we're talking about Chud's work as a coordinator, then we would talk about how he ran the offense in Carolina.

 

But that's not what we're talking about. You're just on the same crusade, and I'm over it. 

 

So are you

 

Why only in Carolina?

[ColtsFanMikeC]

On 1/13/2016 at 10:28 AM, Steamboat_Shaun said:

I think the "this is Luck's Xth coordinator in X years," is somewhat of a played out narrative, he's not the type to have any issues learning a new playbook. He's practically a genius, and could probably learn a new offense in his sleep. It's the other 10 guys on offense not being on the same page as him that I'm worried about.

 

That probably seems like splitting hairs, but the real concern shouldn't be Luck's ability to adapt to a new OC. And as far as Chud goes, I really can't say for sure what his intentions are, but if he really wanted a HC gig, this would've been a great year to throw his hat in the mix. Plenty of vacancies. But he signed with the Colts instead, and I thought it was for 4 years (not 100% on that), so I do believe he'll be here for the next 2 seasons, minimum.

 

I don't think it's a played out narrative.  The speed/skill of NFL players doesn't compare to college.  Luck has done extremely well for the majority of his career.  However, he is still young in his career and constantly learning/adjusting to new systems while he is still picking up the nuances of the NFL game, continuing to learn to read defenses, etc. etc. cannot help his development.

[Jason_]

3 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

 

 

again great that you jump in where you werent a part of that conversation.  He doesnt need defended.  He can fight his own battles.

 

again, public forum.  get over yourself.  besides I wasn't so much defending him as I was pointing out your hypocrisy....calling someone out for being insulting mere days after you were banned for pretty much the same thing.

 

Quote

Dont be mad because I poked holes in your assessment of the OC.    Just go study up and come back with a better argument.    That is why we are all here right?   Or are you Stepford too?

 

You couldn't poke a hole in saran wrap with the "arguments" you've made.

 

Quote

Yes I'm black?  Is that why you dont like Pep?   Sad to be you. Hope you get help

 

uh, negative.  Pot calling the kettle black....very common expression.  Look it up if you don't understand.

[Tsarquise]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

The play calling and gameplanning was on Pep. They were bad, Pep got fired. He's not the first offensive coordinator to get fired for bad play calling and gameplanning, and he won't be the last.

Duh........

 

People get fired for being percieved at doing a bad job, but what made his game plan so bad that it warranted termination?

 

What are the expectations? Once hired, are we expecting to be the number one offense?

 

How do we objectively assess an OC?

 

How much is the QB to be blamed? I don't think Pep was telling Luck to throw errant passes and miss his reads.

 

People also forget the success the offense has had the last couple of years. This year, Luck is injured, plays poorly, and then people holler about regression and they blame it on the OC...at least It seems as though that's what's going on.

 

Why is it a forgone conclusion that Chudzinski is an upgrade? I don't see how it's obvious that Chudzinski is an upgrade over Pep. He couldn't even put the offense in position to beat Houston at home, while Pep did, at Houston. The offense looked pretty good that day. 

 

I'm sincerely asking these questions because I don't know. I just casually watch games and it seems that a lot of people, who should be more knowledgable than me, here, act as if Chud > Pep is dogma and anyone who questions it is being blasphemous.

 

I also really don't get the optimism for Chudzinski as the OC when  one takes in to consideration his persistence to run the ball when we simply can't. It's just a waste of downs. 

[OffensivelyPC]

It's caused you concern through "all through the years" huh?  ...like, you lost sleep over it years before he was OC 6 months ago? 

 

Totally believable...

[Coltfreak]

3 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

again, public forum.  get over yourself.  besides I wasn't so much defending him as I was pointing out your hypocrisy....calling someone out for being insulting mere days after you were banned for pretty much the same thing.

 

 

You couldn't poke a hole in saran wrap with the "arguments" you've made.

 

 

uh, negative.  Pot calling the kettle black....very common expression.  Look it up if you don't understand.

 

Yet again you come throwing words onto a message board with no actual reply.  You have no way to debate what I am saying because what I am saying makes sense, which again you are without

[Coltfreak]

2 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

Duh........

 

People get fired for being percieved at doing a bad job, but what made his game plan so bad that it warranted termination?

 

What are the expectations? Once hired, are we expecting to be the number one offense?

 

How do we objectively assess an OC?

 

How much is the QB to be blamed? I don't think Pep was telling Luck to throw errant passes and miss his reads.

 

People also forget the success the offense has had the last couple of years. This year, Luck is injured, plays poorly, and then people holler about regression and they blame it on the OC...at least It seems as though that's what's going on.

 

Why is it a forgone conclusion that Chudzinski is an upgrade? I don't see how it's obvious that Chudzinski is an upgrade over Pep. He couldn't even put the offense in position to beat Houston at home, while Pep did, at Houston. The offense looked pretty good that day. 

 

I'm sincerely asking these questions because I don't know. I just casually watch games and it seems that a lot of people, who should be more knowledgable than me, here, act as if Chud > Pep is dogma and anyone who questions it is being blasphemous.

 

I also really don't get the optimism for Chudzinski as the OC when  one takes in to consideration his persistence to run the ball when we simply can't. It's just a waste of downs. 

 

 

You will not get an answer,  It will be more of the "because I said so argument"   no proof to back the opinion they have attached themselves to.   It was all the rage to jump on the fire Pep bandwagon and now its moving to fast for anyone to jump off.   But when you try to throw a stick in their spokes by asking the simple question of WHY?   Then you cause panic, and this is what you get.   Talking in circles, name calling and avoidance of any such answer, reason or proof.

 

I hope Chud makes it, but I doubt he can live up to the god-like being he has been portrayed to on this board.   He will be as good as Andrew Luck allows him to be. 

 

Any OC can look good with a healthy AL who doesnt try to force the issue. And anyone who believes otherwise is foolish

 

 

[crazycolt1]

It's getting close to the last round.

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

 

 

You will not get an answer,  It will be more of the "because I said so argument"   no proof to back the opinion they have attached themselves to.   It was all the rage to jump on the fire Pep bandwagon and now its moving to fast for anyone to jump off.   But when you try to throw a stick in their spokes by asking the simple question of WHY?   Then you cause panic, and this is what you get.   Talking in circles, name calling and avoidance of any such answer, reason or proof.

 

I hope Chud makes it, but I doubt he can live up to the god-like being he has been portrayed to on this board.   He will be as good as Andrew Luck allows him to be. 

 

Any OC can look good with a healthy AL who doesnt try to force the issue. And anyone who believes otherwise is foolish

 

 

 

[RockThatBlue]

Oh lordy, Peps brother is on the forum defending him again.

[Superman]

5 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

Duh........

People get fired for being percieved at doing a bad job, but what made his game plan so bad that it warranted termination?

 

I didn't fire Pep, nor did anyone here. The people he answered to felt he did a bad job. This isn't really about perception.

 

Quote

What are the expectations? Once hired, are we expecting to be the number one offense?

 

How do we objectively assess an OC?

 

How much is the QB to be blamed? I don't think Pep was telling Luck to throw errant passes and miss his reads.

 

The overall production of an offense is a significant factor. The flow of the game, play calling, using players properly, etc., are all factors.
 

Quote

People also forget the success the offense has had the last couple of years. This year, Luck is injured, plays poorly, and then people holler about regression and they blame it on the OC...at least It seems as though that's what's going on.

 

I don't understand why thinking Pep did a bad job has to mean that I have a faulty memory. I know how the offense played in 2013 and 2014. I was concerned about certain factors of the offense then, and those particular factors got worse in 2015, with Luck. Ironically, Pep's best games in 2015 were the ones with Luck out. 

 

Quote

Why is it a forgone conclusion that Chudzinski is an upgrade? I don't see how it's obvious that Chudzinski is an upgrade over Pep. He couldn't even put the offense in position to beat Houston at home, while Pep did, at Houston. The offense looked pretty good that day. 

 

To the bolded, it's not. Again, a misrepresentation of my viewpoint.

 

Quote

I'm sincerely asking these questions because I don't know. I just casually watch games and it seems that a lot of people, who should be more knowledgable than me, here, act as if Chud > Pep is dogma and anyone who questions it is being blasphemous.

 

I also really don't get the optimism for Chudzinski as the OC when  one takes in to consideration his persistence to run the ball when we simply can't. It's just a waste of downs. 

 

I don't see why this has to be this hard. Some posters have made this a black or white proposition, only playing the extremes. I'm personally annoyed by that. I do think Chud will be better than Pep, but I haven't suggested that it's a foregone conclusion, and I have reservations about Chud as OC myself.

 

I think Pep ignored play action, he abandoned the run, he didn't show sufficient control of the offense, he used too many formations and personnel packages, failed to establish trends that could then be taken advantage of, and overall failed to form an offensive identity that the team could fall back on to break out of funks. This was not entirely about Pep, but I think a good offensive coordinator would take steps to fix these things. Under Pep, they got worse. I stuck up for him for over two years, but early in 2015, he lost my support. On his own merits, independent of Chud or any other candidate, I felt Pep needed to go. That's my opinion, and I offer it as nothing more, certainly not as dogma or gospel.

 

As for Chud, he may have his flaws. I found the Denver game encouraging, because that was a gameplan that I thought we should have been using for weeks. I found the Titans game encouraging, because Chud and Clyde put together an open minded and innovative system to use two street free agents effectively on five days prep. Along the way, there was some bad play calling and some unimpressive gameplans. I'm not acting like Chud deserves to be given the key to the city. I'm just hopeful that he'll do some of the common sense things that I thought we should have been doing all along, and that's because he did those things as soon as he took over.

 

I was optimistic for Pep when he got the job, also. And he did some good things. Unfortunately, I don't think he did a good job of maximizing his players talents, instead putting his players in bad situations over and over again. Some will tell you that the coordinator doesn't matter when the QB is as talented as Luck (ironically, that would mean that it doesn't matter if it's Pep, Chud, or one of us on this site). I disagree. I think a good coordinator helps the offense reach its potential, and a bad coordinator can undermine the talent you do have.

 

So you can play the extremes like Coltfreak loves to do, in which case I don't intend to engage any further, or we can talk about offensive coordinators in substance. Doesn't mean you have to agree with me; like I said, this is just my opinion. I just don't like having my words twisted.

[SteelCityColt]

18 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

 

with losing seasons both years

6-10

7-9

As Jason said using wins is not always a good way to judge a coordinator. If you want to talk about production during that tenure Cam Newton was the most productive QB ever (until a certain other QB came into the league) over his first two seasons. 

 

17 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

So you would agree that Pep should not have been fired?  Top 5 offense all the time he was here?

 

Depends what you define as Top 5? What's your metric? YPG?

2013 - 15th 

2014 - 3rd

2015* - 28th

 

Maybe you're a thinking man and like DVOA:

2013 - 13th (20th in WO)

2014 - 17th (22nd in WO)

2015* - 30th (32nd in WO)

 

Interestingly the above WO shows how our O would consistently fade as the season wore on, not good for a team with little on D who wants to make a deep run in the playoffs. 

 

11 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

Yes I'm black?  Is that why you dont like Pep?   Sad to be you. Hope you get help

 

You're really going to pull that card out the deck in response to a phrase that is clearly nothing to do with race? 

 

 

Before you accuse me of being a Pep hater or a Chud lover. Feel free to look back through my posting history, I was firm defender of Pep when people were calling for him to be fired but eventually you have to say enough is enough. How many games were won because they abandoned Pep's plan and said to Luck go out there and sling it around to win us the game? How many slow starts? How many failures to establish a running game? Was that all on Pep? No. But that's football and ultimately he had responsibility for the O.

Factor in that we pretty much know Pagano didn't hire him and the power struggle we've seen play out. It's not surprising Pagano wanted his guy. 

 

At least give Chud the chance to show us what he can do with a full offseason working with a healthy Luck. 

[Coltfreak]

4 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

As Jason said using wins is not always a good way to judge a coordinator. If you want to talk about production during that tenure Cam Newton was the most productive QB ever (until a certain other QB came into the league) over his first two seasons. 

 

 

Depends what you define as Top 5? What's your metric? YPG?

2013 - 15th 

2014 - 3rd

2015* - 28th

 

Maybe you're a thinking man and like DVOA:

2013 - 13th (20th in WO)

2014 - 17th (22nd in WO)

2015* - 30th (32nd in WO)

 

Interestingly the above WO shows how our O would consistently fade as the season wore on, not good for a team with little on D who wants to make a deep run in the playoffs. 

 

 

You're really going to pull that card out the deck in response to a phrase that is clearly nothing to do with race? 

 

 

Before you accuse me of being a Pep hater or a Chud lover. Feel free to look back through my posting history, I was firm defender of Pep when people were calling for him to be fired but eventually you have to say enough is enough. How many games were won because they abandoned Pep's plan and said to Luck go out there and sling it around to win us the game? How many slow starts? How many failures to establish a running game? Was that all on Pep? No. But that's football and ultimately he had responsibility for the O.

Factor in that we pretty much know Pagano didn't hire him and the power struggle we've seen play out. It's not surprising Pagano wanted his guy. 

 

At least give Chud the chance to show us what he can do with a full offseason working with a healthy Luck. 

I think if you actually read what I said then you will see that I do want Chud here. Just thought Pep got a raw deal and it stemmed from Luck getting hurt and also playing terrible 

 

Anyone that's wants Chud over Pep that is fine but when people act like it is going to be this huge improvement shows they know very little about what they are talking about especially basing it on one game 

 

Chuds resume is not very good. In fact it's pretty bad. this offense will look as good as what Luck makes it look. he is the absolute key if you want to say that he made Pep look good then fine. It will have to be the same standard with Chud and also Bruce before him

 

i want Chud to succeed.  I'm just not ready to proclaim him great like a lot are on here I want continuity and hate the thought of 3 OC in 5 yrs   I love the Air Coreyell offense  and Yes I know Luck can learn a new system. But there are a lot more than just Luck that have to learn it. 

 

 

[SteelCityColt]

3 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

I think if you actually read what I said then you will see that I do want Chud here. Just thought Pep got a raw deal and it stemmed from Luck getting hurt and also playing terrible 

 

Anyone that's wants Chud over Pep that is fine but when people act like it is going to be this huge improvement shows they know very little about what they are talking about especially basing it on one game 

 

Chuds resume is not very good. In fact it's pretty bad. this offense will look as good as what Luck makes it look. he is the absolute key if you want to say that he made Pep look good then fine. It will have to be the same standard with Chud and also Bruce before him

 

i want Chud to succeed.  I'm just not ready to proclaim him great like a lot are on here I want continuity and hate the thought of 3 OC in 5 yrs   I love the Air Coreyell offense  and Yes I know Luck can learn a new system. But there are a lot more than just Luck that have to learn it. 

 

 

 

You seem to like misrepresenting people's positions.

 

My reference to Chud's previous resume was over two seasons, not one game, and are you saying he didn't have success as the OC for Cam Newton in his first two seasons? 

 

Never said Luck made Pep look good, quite the opposite, I pointed our your assertion that we were constantly a top 5 offense was wrong. 

 

Changing an OC isn't ideal, but again, it's football, it happens. How many OCs do the majority of successful QBs have during their career in the league? Manning was an exception. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

13 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

What are the expectations? Once hired, are we expecting to be the number one offense?

 

How do we objectively assess an OC?

 

How much is the QB to be blamed? I don't think Pep was telling Luck to throw errant passes and miss his reads.

 

I also really don't get the optimism for Chudzinski as the OC when  one takes in to consideration his persistence to run the ball when we simply can't. It's just a waste of downs. 

 

What you ask for has been asked and answered, but mostly as it occurred.  Countless game day chats, game day threads, and especially post game threads focusing on the details of successes and failures. I doubt you will find people wanting to go back and find the game where the game plan called for 29 straight pass attempts (I am sure it didn't, yet we did just that) in a row in the 3rd and 4th quarter, etc...

 

NFL has two goals.  As a sport, the goal is to win.  As entertainment, the goal is to be profitable (as a club, and the league as a whole). When either is lacking, then at some point changes are made.  Some look at it like "you are just replacing a guy (OC, DC, HC, whatever) that works hard and knows football X's and O's with another guy who works hard and knows X's and O's.  True. But there is so much more; from schemes, philosophies, adjustments to the players rather than the reverse, etc... and leadership.

 

The fact is, Chud will be compared to Pep in certain 'big picture areas' by fans to determine his contribution to change and whether it was more successful change or not.  Such items might be (but not limited to) record outside the division (where we are slightly above .500), record vs. sub .500 teams, record vs >.500 teams, record vs playoff caliber teams, numbers of scoreless quarters or half's, pass / run balance, 3rd down efficiency, Red Zone efficiency, number of games we are blown out of, record of teams we get blown out by,  number of teams we blow out etc...  and ultimately are we in the hunt for a playoff run and potential Super Bowl.  It's what we fans do.  Organizations have their own methods and metrics, but their ultimate goal is to win as well.

 

Another fact is, Chudzinski has experience in the NFL as an OC.  A year with the Browns, and a ouple years with the Panthers.  both times, those teams were well within the top 10 in offense.  And neither team was or is known as an offensive juggernaut.  So there is optimism for improvements with a new scheme by an experienced football guy that has previously shown he adapts his plays and play calls to take advantage of the skills of the roster.  His achievements will be compared in time to his predecessor, and then will we know if it was a smart move, a lateral move, or poor decision. 

[ALL BLUE]

After watching the play calls early part of the Tennessee game I am excited to see this offense with Chud .

[crazycolt1]

18 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

 

 

again great that you jump in where you werent a part of that conversation.  He doesnt need defended.  He can fight his own battles.

 

Dont be mad because I poked holes in your assessment of the OC.    Just go study up and come back with a better argument.    That is why we are all here right?   Or are you Stepford too?

 

Yes I'm black?  Is that why you dont like Pep?   Sad to be you. Hope you get help

I cant believe you wanna go there. I don't think anyone thought or even cared if you are black. I had no clue and it makes no difference one way or another. You are just another forum member who I find has a very argumentative attitude and personality. Now because someone don't share your opinion you want to play the race card? That is beyond being argumentative.....

[Traines]

38 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

What you ask for has been asked and answered, but mostly as it occurred.  Countless game day chats, game day threads, and especially post game threads focusing on the details of successes and failures. I doubt you will find people wanting to go back and find the game where the game plan called for 29 straight pass attempts (I am sure it didn't, yet we did just that) in a row in the 3rd and 4th quarter, etc...

 

NFL has two goals.  As a sport, the goal is to win.  As entertainment, the goal is to be profitable (as a club, and the league as a whole). When either is lacking, then at some point changes are made.  Some look at it like "you are just replacing a guy (OC, DC, HC, whatever) that works hard and knows football X's and O's with another guy who works hard and knows X's and O's.  True. But there is so much more; from schemes, philosophies, adjustments to the players rather than the reverse, etc... and leadership.

 

The fact is, Chud will be compared to Pep in certain 'big picture areas' by fans to determine his contribution to change and whether it was more successful change or not.  Such items might be (but not limited to) record outside the division (where we are slightly above .500), record vs. sub .500 teams, record vs >.500 teams, record vs playoff caliber teams, numbers of scoreless quarters or half's, pass / run balance, 3rd down efficiency, Red Zone efficiency, number of games we are blown out of, record of teams we get blown out by,  number of teams we blow out etc...  and ultimately are we in the hunt for a playoff run and potential Super Bowl.  It's what we fans do.  Organizations have their own methods and metrics, but their ultimate goal is to win as well.

 

Another fact is, Chudzinski has experience in the NFL as an OC.  A year with the Browns, and a ouple years with the Panthers.  both times, those teams were well within the top 10 in offense.  And neither team was or is known as an offensive juggernaut.  So there is optimism for improvements with a new scheme by an experienced football guy that has previously shown he adapts his plays and play calls to take advantage of the skills of the roster.  His achievements will be compared in time to his predecessor, and then will we know if it was a smart move, a lateral move, or poor decision. 

 

Thanks for taking the time to spell the situation out for a certain few who apparently do not understand the way the league and forum work.

[Traines]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I didn't fire Pep, nor did anyone here. The people he answered to felt he did a bad job. This isn't really about perception.

 

 

The overall production of an offense is a significant factor. The flow of the game, play calling, using players properly, etc., are all factors.
 

 

I don't understand why thinking Pep did a bad job has to mean that I have a faulty memory. I know how the offense played in 2013 and 2014. I was concerned about certain factors of the offense then, and those particular factors got worse in 2015, with Luck. Ironically, Pep's best games in 2015 were the ones with Luck out. 

 

 

To the bolded, it's not. Again, a misrepresentation of my viewpoint.

 

 

I don't see why this has to be this hard. Some posters have made this a black or white proposition, only playing the extremes. I'm personally annoyed by that. I do think Chud will be better than Pep, but I haven't suggested that it's a foregone conclusion, and I have reservations about Chud as OC myself.

 

I think Pep ignored play action, he abandoned the run, he didn't show sufficient control of the offense, he used too many formations and personnel packages, failed to establish trends that could then be taken advantage of, and overall failed to form an offensive identity that the team could fall back on to break out of funks. This was not entirely about Pep, but I think a good offensive coordinator would take steps to fix these things. Under Pep, they got worse. I stuck up for him for over two years, but early in 2015, he lost my support. On his own merits, independent of Chud or any other candidate, I felt Pep needed to go. That's my opinion, and I offer it as nothing more, certainly not as dogma or gospel.

 

As for Chud, he may have his flaws. I found the Denver game encouraging, because that was a gameplan that I thought we should have been using for weeks. I found the Titans game encouraging, because Chud and Clyde put together an open minded and innovative system to use two street free agents effectively on five days prep. Along the way, there was some bad play calling and some unimpressive gameplans. I'm not acting like Chud deserves to be given the key to the city. I'm just hopeful that he'll do some of the common sense things that I thought we should have been doing all along, and that's because he did those things as soon as he took over.

 

I was optimistic for Pep when he got the job, also. And he did some good things. Unfortunately, I don't think he did a good job of maximizing his players talents, instead putting his players in bad situations over and over again. Some will tell you that the coordinator doesn't matter when the QB is as talented as Luck (ironically, that would mean that it doesn't matter if it's Pep, Chud, or one of us on this site). I disagree. I think a good coordinator helps the offense reach its potential, and a bad coordinator can undermine the talent you do have.

 

So you can play the extremes like Coltfreak loves to do, in which case I don't intend to engage any further, or we can talk about offensive coordinators in substance. Doesn't mean you have to agree with me; like I said, this is just my opinion. I just don't like having my words twisted.

 

Very well said!

[Valpo2004]

As someone else mentioned if you want to get a good OC and run a good offence eventually he's going to come up for HC gigs.

 

Switching OC's is pretty normal in the league.  I don't think we're at a competitive disadvantage by switching them.  Sure keeping one for many years breeds some comfort for the players, but it's just not typical in the league for an OC to stay someplace for like a decade.