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Confused Over Caldwell

JColts72

By JColts72
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JColts72 Hall of Famer

JColts72

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I really need to know if there has been many other circumstances of a coach being retained after going 2 and 14? I know there have been many coaches fired adfer being 14 and 2 (Marty in SD), coaches who have had winning records and coaches who lost playoff games, that have been canned- Unless Irsay thinks Caldwell is Landry/Shula all rolled into one, I just cannot see the logic that he remains a NFL head coach.

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Dustin Walk On

Dustin

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I really need to know if there has been many other circumstances of a coach being retained after going 2 and 14? I know there have been many coaches fired adfer being 14 and 2 (Marty in SD), coaches who have had winning records and coaches who lost playoff games, that have been canned- Unless Irsay thinks Caldwell is Landry/Shula all rolled into one, I just cannot see the logic that he remains a NFL head coach.

Spags did but it was his first year. Actually they may have went 1-15 that year. Not sure.
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GoColts8818 Ring of Honor

GoColts8818

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I really need to know if there has been many other circumstances of a coach being retained after going 2 and 14? I know there have been many coaches fired adfer being 14 and 2 (Marty in SD), coaches who have had winning records and coaches who lost playoff games, that have been canned- Unless Irsay thinks Caldwell is Landry/Shula all rolled into one, I just cannot see the logic that he remains a NFL head coach.

Every team and every situation is different, there is no book that says if your team goes x and x you must fire or not fire your coach.

Frankly I think what is going on is that Irsay sat down and looked at the season and realized the biggest problem causing them to lose games was a flat out lack of talent and if someone else was coaching the team it wouldn't have made much of a difference in the out come of most games. Thus he decided it a time for the GM to be shown the door.

If you listen to Irsay's presser it's pretty clear he respects Jim Caldwell a lot and the fact he didn't lose the team clearly ment something to Irsay. Now with that said Irsay also akowledge Cladwell's mistakes he's made which is why I think Caldwell is under review at the moment. I think irsay feels like Caldwell is an average coach and is seeing if he can get someone better or that he likes more. If he can't and he's not crazy about someone else he has left the door open to stick with Caldwell. It means Caldwell has to twist in the wind a bit and might cost the Colts some coaches on the staff at the moment (you can't blame them for looking for jobs right now) but that seems to be the road Irsay has picked to go down.

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JColts72 Hall of Famer

JColts72

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The same talent of course minus manning was there last season, same running backs, same WR corp, same TE corp without Clark, same kicker, punter, o-line mix/match. Recall Mora being fired after 6 win season after taking Colts to playoffs in 99 and 2000

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GoColts8818 Ring of Honor

GoColts8818

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If Irsay truly is in rebuilding mode, he may be keeping Caldwell around to ensure a top 5 pick next year too.

Irsay did say they were in a rebuilding mode but also said that he hopes that we keep some of our talented vets and has since said they are in a rebuilding mood for certain areas of the team. So I don't think it's a total rebuild.

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Zachris Walk On

Zachris

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Every team and every situation is different, there is no book that says if your team goes x and x you must fire or not fire your coach.

Frankly I think what is going on is that Irsay sat down and looked at the season and realized the biggest problem causing them to lose games was a flat out lack of talent and if someone else was coaching the team it wouldn't have made much of a difference in the out come of most games. Thus he decided it a time for the GM to be shown the door.

If you listen to Irsay's presser it's pretty clear he respects Jim Caldwell a lot and the fact he didn't lose the team clearly ment something to Irsay. Now with that said Irsay also akowledge Cladwell's mistakes he's made which is why I think Caldwell is under review at the moment. I think irsay feels like Caldwell is an average coach and is seeing if he can get someone better or that he likes more. If he can't and he's not crazy about someone else he has left the door open to stick with Caldwell. It means Caldwell has to twist in the wind a bit and might cost the Colts some coaches on the staff at the moment (you can't blame them for looking for jobs right now) but that seems to be the road Irsay has picked to go down.

Lack of talent? I won't disagree that without Manning, some things were horrible, but we do have talent on this dang team. Granted, most of that talent was drafted in the middle rounds, but to say we had lack of talent? The only lack of talent I saw was in the coaching staff.

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GoColts8818 Ring of Honor

GoColts8818

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Lack of talent? I won't disagree that without Manning, some things were horrible, but we do have talent on this dang team. Granted, most of that talent was drafted in the middle rounds, but to say we had lack of talent? The only lack of talent I saw was in the coaching staff.

Okay then why did the GM get fired? If you have talent and it's not being used right you fire the head coach. It's when you have a lack of talent that the GM gets fired. Also Irsay pointed out that he did not think this was like in 1998 or when we fired Mora where you could look at the team and see that they had good young talent and felt good about the talent level. He said himself that he is concerned about the talent on this team.

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MyBeautifulChineseDoll Walk On

MyBeautifulChineseDoll

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Okay then why did the GM get fired? If you have talent and it's not being used right you fire the head coach. It's when you have a lack of talent that the GM gets fired. Also Irsay pointed out that he did not think this was like in 1998 or when we fired Mora where you could look at the team and see that they had good young talent and felt good about the talent level. He said himself that he is concerned about the talent on this team.

Read between the lines.What he(irsay) meant to say was this;"I'm very concerned with the overall talent of this team,so i must make alot of unpopular decisions,such as trading our overall pick to obtain more picks in the coming years to correct this situation.I fired the polians' because they felt comfortable taking 'luck' and would continue to neglect our more pressing areas of need(defense)".I think that sounds about right.

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TheNextGM Active Roster

TheNextGM

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Hi.. new to the posting aspect, but I've been reading for years...

Just wanted to say, Caldwell MUST be let go once the new GM is hired. If not for record alone, for some of the bonehead decisions he has made that cost us games.

I'm tired of the same old Colts. The Colts who are next to last against the run. The Colts who play a soft Cover2 and give up 11 yards on 3rd and 10. The Colts who NEED Peyton Manning to be Peyton Manning to win games.

We need a new identity. A new toughness. A new system.

Caldwell needs to go. Bring on Rob Ryan, or John Gruden, or Steve Spagnuolo.

Personally, my first choice is Ryan. He's exciting, he's smart, and he'd bring a new identity.

Love the Colts! Will be a fan forever!!!

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GoColts8818 Ring of Honor

GoColts8818

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Read between the lines.What he(irsay) meant to say was this;"I'm very concerned with the overall talent of this team,so i must make alot of unpopular decisions,such as trading our overall pick to obtain more picks in the coming years to correct this situation.I fired the polians' because they felt comfortable taking 'luck' and would continue to neglect our more pressing areas of need(defense)".I think that sounds about right.

Except they didn't tank for Luck becaue the players kept playing hard in every game they just weren't very good. You are seeing what you want to see.

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HungarianColtsFan Team Captain

HungarianColtsFan

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Many think Irsay may let the new GM decide Caldwell's fate. The longer he is there then the greater chance he will be there next season.

Mr. Irsay told this himself.

“Right now, that’s still under evaluation. I anticipate the general manger being here when I make a final decision on the coaching staff and the head coach."

He also said, that Caldwell won't be surely fired. I think it is also depending on if they can find a better coach or not. If they can only switch to an other, but not better coach, they will hire Caldwell for next season, they won't change just for sake of change.

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JColts72 Hall of Famer

JColts72

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Don McCafferty got fired mid 1972 by Joe Thomas and he WON a SuperBowl in 1971

Shula was let go after 1969 season to begin with Miami in 1970- So there are coaches who goes- U think after 2 and 14, time is right for Mr. Emotions to leave. I also think Marcabroda was let go after 1996 season and he took Colts to Championship game.

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LUVTHESHOE Walk On

LUVTHESHOE

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I really need to know if there has been many other circumstances of a coach being retained after going 2 and 14? I know there have been many coaches fired adfer being 14 and 2 (Marty in SD), coaches who have had winning records and coaches who lost playoff games, that have been canned- Unless Irsay thinks Caldwell is Landry/Shula all rolled into one, I just cannot see the logic that he remains a NFL head coach.

I really need to know if there has been many other circumstances of a coach being retained after going 2 and 14? I know there have been many coaches fired adfer being 14 and 2 (Marty in SD), coaches who have had winning records and coaches who lost playoff games, that have been canned- Unless Irsay thinks Caldwell is Landry/Shula all rolled into one, I just cannot see the logic that he remains a NFL head coach.

In my opinion it just goes to show that Caldwell is a puppet HC Once again left to dangle by his strings, with a mere I'll get back to you later. If his one super bowl ride is so darn impressive why does'nt he go up to Irsay and say I am Jim Caldwell super bowl coach and you can't leave me to just sit and wait to be fired. I know why because he knows he will never get another sniff at any nfl head coaching job, man up Jim and resign. Sorry, just the way I see it.
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JColts72 Hall of Famer

JColts72

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I agree with luvtheshoe- This is Caldwell Mangini's last gig any where. New name, becasue he remins me of that loser Mangini, with poor play calling, no emotions, and will also get a pass possiblly with a new GM, pretty much like what the Browns did.

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antipatriot Walk On

antipatriot

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I think Caldwell will be here until we get a new GM, if that happens to late he will get another year. However I think Irsay wants to bring in a very talented structure from the GM on down and help this franchise continue to be one of the poster franchises for the nfl. I hope Caldwell is gone because although some believe we lack talent and I would agree at some positions we do, we had the same nucleus we have had for many years this year minus Manning. I am hoping for Decosta and Zimmer that would get us going in the right defensive direction. I think we take luck with the pick keep Manning for two years and then we should be well into our new identity and be a good team for the next 15 years. Just my opinion and like everyone else on this board we are not NFL GM`s, coaches or players although we like to think we have all the answers that is the best thing about being a fan.

GO COLTS

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HungarianColtsFan Team Captain

HungarianColtsFan

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In my opinion it just goes to show that Caldwell is a puppet HC Once again left to dangle by his strings, with a mere I'll get back to you later. If his one super bowl ride is so darn impressive why does'nt he go up to Irsay and say I am Jim Caldwell super bowl coach and you can't leave me to just sit and wait to be fired. I know why because he knows he will never get another sniff at any nfl head coaching job, man up Jim and resign. Sorry, just the way I see it.

After "black Monday" I thought Caldwell would announce his resignation himself, but to my disappointment he hasn't so far. After such a disaster season it would be the only logical step. It seems his story goes until new GM is named, and there is some chance, that he will remain HC. Irsay is busy hunting down new GM, but after he found his man, he will decide in HC -question too, with his new GM.

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JoKeR Walk On

JoKeR

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Irsay shouldnt let the players influence the coaching decision, of course they want him, players hate change. Too darn bad IMO, they lost 13 straight under him. He obviously didn't help them win very much so his likableness shouldn't carry much weight.

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LouisBFree Walk On

LouisBFree

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I see no way that Caldwell stays. Any new GM is going to want to bring in "his guy". Unless one of the criteria for selecting a GM is that he can, and wants to work with Caldwell he is gone.

I'm not so sure that signing Luck is a done deal. If Irsay looks at Luck as a talent multiplier for postions that he needs to shore up AND if he is convinced that Peyton is healthy, I could see a draft and trade play. "A bird in the hand..." has direct application here. Kravitz and others are way over confident in how the Colts draft will play out, in my opinion.

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buccolts Hall of Famer

buccolts

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After "black Monday" I thought Caldwell would announce his resignation himself, but to my disappointment he hasn't so far. After such a disaster season it would be the only logical step. It seems his story goes until new GM is named, and there is some chance, that he will remain HC. Irsay is busy hunting down new GM, but after he found his man, he will decide in HC -question too, with his new GM.

I'm not a big Caldwell backer, but I'm not a detractor either.

It's been intimated (by Irsay) that Caldwell has the respect of the players, and, though he may have made some bad in-game decisions, he does a lot of things well. Irsay also clearly stated that he wants things done the right way. To me, he's referring to what we call 'the Dungy way', meaning with integrity.

So, as fun as it is for us to dump on the guy from behind our keyboards, with the limited knowledge we have of what's really going on, there's certainly more to Jim Caldwell than we'll ever see, that makes him an attractive option going forward. Or, at least to see more of.

I won't be shocked, or disappointed, if he's retained. I won't be shocked, or disappointed, if he's replaced.

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kansascolt Walk On

kansascolt

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Hi.. new to the posting aspect, but I've been reading for years...

Just wanted to say, Caldwell MUST be let go once the new GM is hired. If not for record alone, for some of the bonehead decisions he has made that cost us games.

I'm tired of the same old Colts. The Colts who are next to last against the run. The Colts who play a soft Cover2 and give up 11 yards on 3rd and 10. The Colts who NEED Peyton Manning to be Peyton Manning to win games.

We need a new identity. A new toughness. A new system.

Caldwell needs to go. Bring on Rob Ryan, or John Gruden, or Steve Spagnuolo.

Personally, my first choice is Ryan. He's exciting, he's smart, and he'd bring a new identity.

Love the Colts! Will be a fan forever!!!

Am I the only one that isn't impressed with Rob Ryan as a Defensive Coordinator. I've seen Dallas' defense stink it up on multiple occasions. Not to mention I can't stand Rex Ryan and his big mouth, do we really want Rob and his big mouth as an Indy coach?

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MyBeautifulChineseDoll Walk On

MyBeautifulChineseDoll

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Mangini will have a HC job long before JC will have another one. Josh McDaniels will be hired as a HC before JC will be hired as a head coach for another franchise.

The only way JC would sniff another HC job would be if Dungy takes over as president/gm of a franchise and GIVES him the job again.

Why?How many SBA has either mangini or Mcdaniels ever been to as a HC?None.What about jim?One.I'm guessing he's thought of more than either of those two.

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MyBeautifulChineseDoll Walk On

MyBeautifulChineseDoll

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Am I the only one that isn't impressed with Rob Ryan as a Defensive Coordinator. I've seen Dallas' defense stink it up on multiple occasions. Not to mention I can't stand Rex Ryan and his big mouth, do we really want Rob and his big mouth as an Indy coach?

You're right,he stinks.I think everbody is caught-up on DW inflated sack tallies.

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Gonzo Walk On

Gonzo

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I think Irsay is giving any potential incoming GM their dream scenario. What available GM job could possibly be more desirable then one where you have the top pick in the draft in a year with apparently the most coveted QB prospect in years available for the taking (or trading), one of the greatest QBs of all time already on the roster and under contract, and free reign to remake an entire coaching staff.

Irsay should have his pick among available GMs, unless he plans to take the job himself.

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wercolts Walk On

wercolts

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Read between the lines.What he(irsay) meant to say was this;"I'm very concerned with the overall talent of this team,so i must make alot of unpopular decisions,such as trading our overall pick to obtain more picks in the coming years to correct this situation.I fired the polians' because they felt comfortable taking 'luck' and would continue to neglect our more pressing areas of need(defense)".I think that sounds about right.

Look at the top teams in the NFL right now, average defenses at best and great QB's with lots of weapons. Rodgers has Jennings, Nelson, Jones, Driver and Finley. Brees has Colston, Graham, Sproles, Moore, Meachum and Henderson. Brady has Welker, Branch and 2 really good TE's. Ryan - White, Jones, Gonzalez and Turner. Stafford - Megatron, Young, Burleson and 2 very good TE's. Dalton - Green, Simpson, Gresham and a potent backfield. Even the Steelers are winning because of offense with Wallace, Brown, Miller, Ward and Sanders. Yes Baltimore and the 49ers are in because of defense but can the keep up with teams that can put up 30 points on anyone? Probably not unless those teams have a total offensive line breakdown. Anyway, with a healthy defense, something the Colts haven't seen in at least a couple of years, and more offensive threats the Colts would probably have 2 more rings. They should have gone after top FA WR's when they were available and put tall, strong WR's on the top of their draft board. When you have the best QB ever, people he can get the ball to is priority number one, and an average defense will do. Even without the greatest QB you can win a few games, ala Matt Flynn, Charlie Batch and Matt Cassel. The Polians have made draft mistakes but I don't think they're gone because of a lack of defensive talent or wanting to draft Luck. They're probably gone because of a little megalomania and a difference of opinion on direction.

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