Joe cheated

[Bad Morty]

I really can't believe this has gone full cycle and we are back to this. Sneaking footballs into a bathroom and stabbing them after they have been inspected is not the same a WR's using stick-um. 

 

What mental gymnastics does one have to go through to make this statement? Sticking pins in a football  isn't allowed (if that even happened...we have no proof of it)...putting stickum on your hands isn't allowed. They are 100% the same.

[dynasty13]

While I don't doubt for a minute that there have been multiple infractions over the years, it is still no reason to excuse someone for breaking the rules.

Times have changed, rules have changed, in every aspect of our lives ~ a lot of things have changed. Some call it progress.

Bottom line, when you get CAUGHT, you pay the price. Don't wanna get caught~then don't do it.

 

I agree with you Gramz...nobody is 'excusing' the Patriots for what they did, we are simply responding to the constant rhetoric and calls for asterisks and all that other nonsense. When we reference other teams and comparable situations, you all say we are deflecting, but really the only thing we are trying to do is show that if you want to lead the charge and call for asterisks and label the Patriots as cheaters, you better be ready to do it with a lot more teams and a lot more situations.  And if we start doing that, we might just have nobody left. We have only ever asked for consistency. We did it, we got caught, eventually everyone will move on. But putting the Patriots on this level that is somehow above all others in terms of response to what would wildly be considered a minor offense is disingenuous and hypocritical. That is all we have ever tried to claim.

[Shane Bond]

Not "whatever"...Ray Rice might have been the nicest guy on earth to the media for all I know. But when a horrific video emerges of him dropping a woman with one punch, then all bets are off for him.

 

We're dealing in the realm of far less serious issues here, such as who took steroids or how much air came out of a football. These stories can be spun considerably by the media depending on the agenda involved. And the fact is that if you are 'media friendly', you will be protected...if not, your carcass will be left clean by the side of the road.

Oh NOW you are "qualifying" it. Bravo !.

 

Continuous violation of rules are less serious?. Beautiful.

[dw49]

Here is the actual full interview, http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/8508880-74/montana-fan-fame#ixzz3cU8tMpoa%20

 

I am glad Montana came out here and talked about his team cheating ... more than once. And the fact that he would have also had his footballs deflated if he felt it would have helped him throw the ball better. The amount of hoopla over this thing has been over the top ridiculous with perspective and consistently sorely lacking. As I have said multiple times up here, it is fine if you want to judge the Pats harshly for this or spygate but just make sure you do that with all the other teams as well.

 

 

So I guess what Montana has quantified is that his character and sense of fair play is the same as Brady's. That's of coarse assuming that Brady knew what was going on. So does it make it less of an offense ? To me this is like someone complaining that the penalty for armed robbery is too stiff when compared to grand larceny . When you break the rules , people will respect you more if you just take the punishment . 

[dw49]

What mental gymnastics does one have to go through to make this statement? Sticking pins in a football  isn't allowed (if that even happened...we have no proof of it)...putting stickum on your hands isn't allowed. They are 100% the same.

 

 

LOL

[amfootball]

What is the most amazing part of Joe's comments to me is he admitted to his team twice cheating and twice getting caught yet none of us knew about it. That really goes to show you how much the league and the media has changed over the years. Offenses such as these were not publicized at all and apparently no penalty or if there was one it was not made public.

[Bad Morty]

Oh NOW you are "qualifying" it. Bravo !.

 

are there not degrees in the world you inhabit? I'm pretty sure the media loved OJ Simpson back in the day. It's not terribly surprising that the media support dried up when it became apparent he decapitated a couple of people. Me, I put that on a different level than psi in a football...maybe you seem them as equivalent.

[Shane Bond]

are there not degrees in the world you inhabit? I'm pretty sure the media loved OJ Simpson back in the day. It's not terribly surprising that the media support dried up when it became apparent he decapitated a couple of people. Me, I put that on a different level than psi in a football...maybe you seem them as equivalent.

I like how you ignored the second line. Way to go !.

[amfootball]

So I guess what Montana has quantified is that his character and sense of fair play is the same as Brady's. That's of coarse assuming that Brady knew what was going on. So does it make it less of an offense ? To me this is like someone complaining that the penalty for armed robbery is too stiff when compared to grand larceny . When you break the rules , people will respect you more if you just take the punishment . 

You act as if the Wells report proved anything. It didn't. It was ultimately inconclusive and even more so on Brady's involvement. The Pats have accept the ridiculous organizational punishment despite the fact that the Wells report completely exonerated the team, Belichick and the equipment manager really just leaving Brady who is well within in his right to appeal given never in the history of the league has a player ever been suspended for such an offense.

[amfootball]

So I guess what Montana has quantified is that his character and sense of fair play is the same as Brady's. That's of coarse assuming that Brady knew what was going on. So does it make it less of an offense ? To me this is like someone complaining that the penalty for armed robbery is too stiff when compared to grand larceny . When you break the rules , people will respect you more if you just take the punishment . 

To your point about Montana saying his character and sense of fair play is the same, that is exactly right. And both are the most accomplished players of the SB era and widely considered the best at the position to ever play. So we all have to deal with that too.

[pgt_rob]

You act as if the Wells report proved anything. It didn't. It was ultimately inconclusive and even more so on Brady's involvement. The Pats have accept the ridiculous organizational punishment despite the fact that the Wells report completely exonerated the team, Belichick and the equipment manager really just leaving Brady who is well within in his right to appeal given never in the history of the league has a player ever been suspended for such an offense.

 

It was inconclusive, but yet punishments have stayed.

 

...Nice.

[jvan1973]

It was inconclusive, but yet punishments have stayed.

...Nice.

only inconclusive in Boston

[Bad Morty]

I like how you ignored the second line. Way to go !.

 

I didn't ignore it...it wasn't there when I quoted your text. Can you define "continuous rules violations" a little better for me? We have "Spygate 2007"...this in 2015. What were the "continuing" violations?

[Gramz]

I really can't believe this has gone full cycle and we are back to this. Sneaking footballs into a bathroom and stabbing them after they have been inspected is not the same a WR's using stick-um.

Of course they're not the same. An apple and an orange are not the same, but they're both fruits, and these are both infractions.

The reason we've come full cycle, once again, is because every time something like this comes up certain posters want to say. "See ~ the Pats aren't the only ones, like this somehow excuses the deflation issue.

[Shane Bond]

I didn't ignore it...it wasn't there when I quoted your text. Can you define "continuous rules violations" a little better for me? We have "Spygate 2007"...this in 2015. What were the "continuing" violations?

That is continuous. More than one is plural.

 

When you were handed over the highest fine in the league history, one would think you would be a little prudent to follow the rules?.

[amfootball]

It was inconclusive, but yet punishments have stayed.

 

...Nice.

"In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain."

Page 228 Wells report.

[Bad Morty]

That is continuous. More than one is plural.

 

When you were handed over the highest fine in the league history, one would think you would be a little prudent to follow the rules?.

 

It's an interesting world you live it, I'll give you that. When I was 7, I used to think my teams were all good and the other teams were all bad. I outgrew it, but it's cool that some sports fans still hold on to that child-like naivety.

[Shane Bond]

It's an interesting world you live it, I'll give you that. When I was 7, I used to think my teams were all good and the other teams were all bad. I outgrew it, but it's cool that some sports fans still hold on to that child-like naivety.

 

When people like you trying to convince others that the repeat violations are quite alright, it sure is an interesting world !.

[pgt_rob]

"In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain."

Page 228 Wells report.

 

$1M Team Fine

1st Round and 4th Round Picks taken away

Tom Brady suspended 4 games.

 

that wouldn't happen for no reason.

[amfootball]

$1M Team Fine

1st Round and 4th Round Picks taken away

Tom Brady suspended 4 games.

 

that wouldn't happen for no reason.

Yep. And it goes to show that this league can do whatever it wants based on nothing factual ...

[dw49]

You act as if the Wells report proved anything. It didn't. It was ultimately inconclusive and even more so on Brady's involvement. The Pats have accept the ridiculous organizational punishment despite the fact that the Wells report completely exonerated the team, Belichick and the equipment manager really just leaving Brady who is well within in his right to appeal given never in the history of the league has a player ever been suspended for such an offense.

 

 

There have been thousands and thousands of legal convictions based on circumstantial evidence similar to what we see in this case. You've claimed to have read the whole Wells report and I'm sucre if that's the case , you heard him explaining why he quantified his report wit all the "probably and most likely " stuff. It was conclusive enough for Goodall and most sport fans , but yeah.. that said there is no video or eye witnesses to Brady being involved in the process. That said in my post #44 ... I say....

 

 

"So I guess what Montana has quantified is that his character and sense of fair play is the same as Brady's. That's of coarse assuming that Brady knew what was going on."

[pgt_rob]

Yep. And it goes to show that this league can do whatever it wants based on nothing factual ...

 

The damn balls were deflated. There was proof showing that. lol Come on now.

[dw49]

Of course they're not the same. An apple and an orange are not the same, but they're both fruits, and these are both infractions.

The reason we've come full cycle, once again, is because every time something like this comes up certain posters want to say. "See ~ the Pats aren't the only ones, like this somehow excuses the deflation issue.

 

Yep and it's good that we don't let them get away with it.

[amfootball]

There have been thousands and thousands of legal convictions based on circumstantial evidence similar to what we see in this case. You've claimed to have read the whole Wells report and I'm sucre if that's the case , you heard him explaining why he quantified his report wit all the "probably and most likely " stuff. It was conclusive enough for Goodall and most sport fans , but yeah.. that said there is no video or eye witnesses to Brady being involved in the process. That said in my post #44 ... I say....

 

 

"So I guess what Montana has quantified is that his character and sense of fair play is the same as Brady's. That's of coarse assuming that Brady knew what was going on."

Yes, I agree here. I think what is frustrating is typically in this type of case where a league is investigating its most accomplished franchise of the past 15 years, you would like to think there would be a sense of finding actually proof before punishing much less laying down the hammer the way they did. To be honest, and this sentiment is separate from my fandom, I have lost all faith in this league. This past year has pretty much screamed from the roof tops that Goodell and his staff are incompetent, liars, and vindictive. How on earth these 32 owners, Kraft included can feel good about the direction of this league under this leadership is beyond me. I am beyond thinking that any team or player will be treated fairly by what has become a rogue league ...

[shakedownstreet]

the blah goes on

blah-dee-blah-dee-dee
bla-dee-blah-dee-blah

[Superman]

[ColtRider]

Not "whatever"...Ray Rice might have been the nicest guy on earth to the media for all I know. But when a horrific video emerges of him dropping a woman with one punch, then all bets are off for him.

 

We're dealing in the realm of far less serious issues here, such as who took steroids or how much air came out of a football. These stories can be spun considerably by the media depending on the agenda involved. And the fact is that if you are 'media friendly', you will be protected...if not, your carcass will be left clean by the side of the road.

1. Tuck rule - Check, "protected!"

2. SpyGate - Check, "protected!"

3. DeFlateGate - Check, oh wait a minute ...

Media darling of the NFL 2000-2014? Right, for all the wrong reasons.

[dynasty13]

1. Tuck rule - Check, "protected!"

2. SpyGate - Check, "protected!"

3. DeFlateGate - Check, oh wait a minute ...

Media darling of the NFL 2000-2014? Right, for all the wrong reasons.

 

I'm confused by you packaging those three examples together....surely you aren't insinuating that the Patriots somehow cheated by using the Tuck Rule to beat the Raiders in 2001...?

[Bad Morty]

I'm confused by you packaging those three examples together....surely you aren't insinuating that the Patriots somehow cheated by using the Tuck Rule to beat the Raiders in 2001...?

 

I'd also be interested in hearing what "unprotected" might have looked like if he considers the Pats to have been "protected" for Spygate.

[ColtRider]

I'm confused by you packaging those three examples together....surely you aren't insinuating that the Patriots somehow cheated by using the Tuck Rule to beat the Raiders in 2001...?

Surely, I am. Tuck rule? My Caboose! That game was handed to New England on a silver platter served with a complete assortment of shaded nuts. "beat the Raiders"? Uh-huh. Right. Why is it that New England has continued to surround itself in jaded controversy for the last 14 years? Must be the water. No, wait a minute ... It's the air, right? What's next, mind control on the football field?

Inspires me to listen to, "A Whiter Shade of Pale!"

[dynasty13]

Surely, I am. Tuck rule? My Caboose! That game was handed to New England on a silver platter served with a complete assortment of shaded nuts. "beat the Raiders"? Uh-huh. Right. Why is it that New England has continued to surround itself in jaded controversy for the last 14 years? Must be the water. No, wait a minute ... It's the air, right? What's next, mind control on the football field?

Inspires me to listen to, "A Whiter Shade of Pale!"

 

Oh...I see. So the Patriots cheated because Walt Coleman made what many perceive to be a bad call in the game...

 

Got it. 

[Bad Morty]

The Tuck Rule was a better call than the Colts-friendly spot on the 4th and 2 conversion the Patriots had stolen from them in Indy.

[amfootball]

Surely, I am. Tuck rule? My Caboose! That game was handed to New England on a silver platter served with a complete assortment of shaded nuts. "beat the Raiders"? Uh-huh. Right. Why is it that New England has continued to surround itself in jaded controversy for the last 14 years? Must be the water. No, wait a minute ... It's the air, right? What's next, mind control on the football field?

Inspires me to listen to, "A Whiter Shade of Pale!"

Guess someone forgot to give the Giants and/or refs the memo to let the Pats win those two SBs ...

[Gramz]

And the wheels on the bus go round and round.

[BloodyChamp]

The league does very little that it wants. The fact that they did this time tells me that the Pats were busted and there was no way around it. Also people posting quotes are leaving out those quotes about the Pats probably being guilty. I know I know probably but lawyers, investigators, spokespersons don't say probably unless they mean totally.

[Gramz]

I just read on PFT that Kraft is hopeful that Brady will play week one.

[Bad Morty]

I just read on PFT that Kraft is hopeful that Brady will play week one.

I'll bet he winked when he said that...

[Gramz]

I'll bet he winked when he said that...

Of course. Some have already suggested that it was some back door negotiations, and that was part of Kraft's agreeing to the terms of the teams fines.

I personally don't buy that at all. I think the team's loss of draft picks are more harmful and damning than Brady missing a few games, so I honestly don't think any so called deals were made.

[Bad Morty]

Of course. Some have already suggested that it was some back door negotiations, and that was part of Kraft's agreeing to the terms of the teams fines.

I personally don't buy that at all. I think the team's loss of draft picks are more harmful and damning than Brady missing a few games, so I honestly don't think any so called deals were made.

I don't agree with that...losing a first round pick is obviously difficult, but the Pats first round pick from last year (Dominique Easley) was little more than a spare part this year who went on IR halfway through the year. I'll take a lost first rounder any day over losing a QB of Brady's caliber for 25% of a full season. That is a crippling punishment...or, from the sounds of it, "would have been" a crippling punishment.

[amfootball]

I don't agree with that...losing a first round pick is obviously difficult, but the Pats first round pick from last year (Dominique Easley) was little more than a spare part this year who went on IR halfway through the year. I'll take a lost first rounder any day over losing a QB of Brady's caliber for 25% of a full season. That is a crippling punishment...or, from the sounds of it, "would have been" a crippling punishment.

Also, Bill is the master of acquiring draft picks. He had the second most of any team this past-offseason and that was after trading away picks during the season for Ayers and Casillo.