When I compare our talent w/ NE, I give them the edge in these categories

[GoPats]

Why did Luck have so many turnovers?

 

The Colts lead the league with long plays while the Patriots dink and dunk. Big difference, You claim to have a good knowledge of football so why not use it?

 

Luck threw the ball 616 times to Brady's 582. He threw 16 picks (2.6%) to Brady's 9 (1.5%). There's no QB that I'd take over Luck if I was starting a team today. He has the brightest future and at his age is primed to become the face of the league. However he's not there yet. 

 

Also, if the "dink and dunk" plays are as easy as you make them sound, why don't all QBs do it? 

 

 

Yeah, to me it's pretty easy. Edelman is a heck of a player, but I think it's pretty obvious that Hilton is better. And I don't think Edelman would get 16 out of 32 votes from NFL GMs.

 

Totally different types of players... so much so that it's actually difficult to compare them. Edelman is a better chain-mover and Hilton is the superior deep threat. I think in their respective offenses, they're good fits. 

[jskinnz]

Luck threw the ball 616 times to Brady's 582. He threw 16 picks (2.6%) to Brady's 9 (1.5%). There's no QB that I'd take over Luck if I was starting a team today. He has the brightest future and at his age is primed to become the face of the league. However he's not there yet. 

 

Also, if the "dink and dunk" plays are as easy as you make them sound, why don't all QBs do it? 

 

 

Was listening to Cowherd this AM and he is a notorious fan of Luck so take it with a grain of salt.  But he said that there are only 3 elite QB's in the league right now - Brady, Rogers and Luck.  Said they are great all the time.  

 

To those who will begin the flame throwing - I am just the messenger here.

[GoPats]

Was listening to Cowherd this AM and he is a notorious fan of Luck so take it with a grain of salt.  But he said that there are only 3 elite QB's in the league right now - Brady, Rogers and Luck.  Said they are great all the time.  

 

To those who will begin the flame throwing - I am just the messenger here.

 

I have little doubt that Luck will be the best QB of this younger generation when all is said and done. Fortunately for you guys "when all is said and done" is many seasons away. 

[jskinnz]

I have little doubt that Luck will be the best QB of this younger generation when all is said and done. Fortunately for you guys "when all is said and done" is many seasons away. 

 

I think all us Colts fans view the future as very bright but dammit, Brady could help us out a bit and expedite his retirement plans.  This playing til he is 45 crap gives me heartburn.

[pgt_rob]

I think all us Colts fans view the future as very bright but dammit, Brady could help us out a bit and expedite his retirement plans.  This playing til he is 45 crap gives me heartburn.

 

It's just sad, isn't it? He already has 4 rings. He shouldn't be so greedy, it's time for Andrew Luck to move in next.

[crazycolt1]

Luck threw the ball 616 times to Brady's 582. He threw 16 picks (2.6%) to Brady's 9 (1.5%). There's no QB that I'd take over Luck if I was starting a team today. He has the brightest future and at his age is primed to become the face of the league. However he's not there yet. 

 

Also, if the "dink and dunk" plays are as easy as you make them sound, why don't all QBs do it? 

 

 

 

Totally different types of players... so much so that it's actually difficult to compare them. Edelman is a better chain-mover and Hilton is the superior deep threat. I think in their respective offenses, they're good fits. 

 

 

Luck threw the ball 616 times to Brady's 582. He threw 16 picks (2.6%) to Brady's 9 (1.5%). There's no QB that I'd take over Luck if I was starting a team today. He has the brightest future and at his age is primed to become the face of the league. However he's not there yet. 

 

Also, if the "dink and dunk" plays are as easy as you make them sound, why don't all QBs do it? 

 

 

 

Totally different types of players... so much so that it's actually difficult to compare them. Edelman is a better chain-mover and Hilton is the superior deep threat. I think in their respective offenses, they're good fits. 

Nice of you to omit my full comment to suit your purpose.

[GoPats]

Nice of you to omit my full comment to suit your purpose.

 

It was clipped for brevity, not willful purpose. 

 

But since you took offense, here's the rest of your post, and my comments on the part that don't "suit (my) purpose":

 

It's football 101. He has to put the ball in the air much more and has had no running game. That is something Brady has had. Brady also has a defense to help him hold a lead. Does Luck?  Brady also has a very good special team around him where Luck don't. It's easy to sit back and boast about how much better Brady is than Luck and ignore the reasons. 

 

1. I didn't see the Patriots run the ball very well against Baltimore or Seattle. They basically climbed on Brady's back in those two games. They have an inconsistent running game that they deploy on a match-up based premise. 
2. In order for a defense to hold a lead, an offense has to produce one first. Not sure but I don't think a lot of Indy's losses these days are the result of blown leads. (If I'm wrong about that I apologize, as I honestly don't know.)  
3. Yes, Patriots are balanced - special teams and D matter. 
4. I'm not boasting about Brady, I'm just saying that - for now - he's the better QB. I've already said, given where they are in their careers, that I'd take Luck in a heartbeat if I had to pick one to build around for the future. Is that not good enough considering you're talking about a guy who's played three seasons versus a guy who's played 15 and is one of the most accomplished QBs in NFL history? 

[SouthernCal]

So? McNabb also played during a time when QBs could be mauled, as could WRs. Luck is playing at a time when all rules favor the offense.

So? Mcnabb was also playing in when the rules favor the offense and he still can't get 4k yards.

In his prime except 2005, he can't even get 30 TDs.

again lol awful comparison.

[SouthernCal]

It was clipped for brevity, not willful purpose.

But since you took offense, here's the rest of your post, and my comments on the part that don't "suit (my) purpose":

It's football 101. He has to put the ball in the air much more and has had no running game. That is something Brady has had. Brady also has a defense to help him hold a lead. Does Luck? Brady also has a very good special team around him where Luck don't. It's easy to sit back and boast about how much better Brady is than Luck and ignore the reasons.

• I didn't see the Patriots run the ball very well against Baltimore or Seattle. They basically climbed on Brady's back in those two games. They have an inconsistent running game that they deploy on a match-up based premise.
• In order for a defense to hold a lead, an offense has to produce one first. Not sure but I don't think a lot of Indy's losses these days are the result of blown leads. (If I'm wrong about that I apologize, as I honestly don't know.)
• Yes, Patriots are balanced - special teams and D matter.
• I'm not boasting about Brady, I'm just saying that - for now - he's the better QB. I've already said, given where they are in their careers, that I'd take Luck in a heartbeat if I had to pick one to build around for the future. Is that not good enough considering you're talking about a guy who's played three seasons versus a guy who's played 15 and is one of the most accomplished QBs in NFL history?

2. Indy only blown lead was vs Eagles. Rest of the losses including the playoff losses was blown out from the get go.

[Gavin]

So? Mcnabb was also playing in when the rules favor the offense and he still can't get 4k yards.

again lol awful comparison.

Well lets not discount that Mcnabb only had a #1 WR 4 years out of his career, Owens for 2004, 2005. Jackson 2008 2009, Otherwise he was stuck with the Freddie Mitchells of the world,  his best option was TE Chad Lewis or throw to Westbrook or James Thrash.....Not a lot of playmakers after the catch though he did have Antonio Freeman formerly of the Packers but he wasn't on the field a lot for a believe 1 year. Also Mcnabb only played a full 16 game season 4 times in his career, He is in the top 20 in total passing yards despite that

[ViriLudant]

Was listening to Cowherd this AM and he is a notorious fan of Luck so take it with a grain of salt. But he said that there are only 3 elite QB's in the league right now - Brady, Rogers and Luck. Said they are great all the time.

To those who will begin the flame throwing - I am just the messenger here.

Luck is not in Rodgers or Brady territory. I think he'll make it, but he's not there yet.

[crazycolt1]

 

It was clipped for brevity, not willful purpose. 

 

But since you took offense, here's the rest of your post, and my comments on the part that don't "suit (my) purpose":

 

It's football 101. He has to put the ball in the air much more and has had no running game. That is something Brady has had. Brady also has a defense to help him hold a lead. Does Luck?  Brady also has a very good special team around him where Luck don't. It's easy to sit back and boast about how much better Brady is than Luck and ignore the reasons. 

 

1. I didn't see the Patriots run the ball very well against Baltimore or Seattle. They basically climbed on Brady's back in those two games. They have an inconsistent running game that they deploy on a match-up based premise. 
2. In order for a defense to hold a lead, an offense has to produce one first. Not sure but I don't think a lot of Indy's losses these days are the result of blown leads. (If I'm wrong about that I apologize, as I honestly don't know.)  
3. Yes, Patriots are balanced - special teams and D matter. 
4. I'm not boasting about Brady, I'm just saying that - for now - he's the better QB. I've already said, given where they are in their careers, that I'd take Luck in a heartbeat if I had to pick one to build around for the future. Is that not good enough considering you're talking about a guy who's played three seasons versus a guy who's played 15 and is one of the most accomplished QBs in NFL history? 

 

I take no offense at all. You failed to consider I was talking about Lucks and Bradys careers, not just this season. Brady is the QB that is on a team that has taken years to build. Luck is on a team that has 51 new players in three seasons. The Colts cant call any game a situational game to run in because they have no run game. Did Brady have to sit in the pocket with 12 different starting O-lines this season? Luck did, and still lead the league most of the year in passing offense.

[crazycolt1]

Luck is not in Rodgers or Brady territory. I think he'll make it, but he's not there yet.

Luck is there. He just don't have the team around him like Brady and Rogers does. Luck was leading the league in passing offense just about the whole year. He did lead the league in the long ball.

[crazycolt1]

I have little doubt that Luck will be the best QB of this younger generation when all is said and done. Fortunately for you guys "when all is said and done" is many seasons away. 

Maybe not as many as you think.

[ViriLudant]

Luck is there. He just don't have the team around him like Brady and Rogers does. Luck was leading the league in passing offense just about the whole year. He did lead the league in the long ball.

No, he's not . He turns the ball over far too often.

[pgt_rob]

No, he's not . He turns the ball over far too often.

Ok. So what. Moving on...

[ViriLudant]

Ok. So what. Moving on...

So what? That's clearly a major flaw which prevents him from being elite.

[Superman]

So what? That's clearly a major flaw which prevents him from being elite.

 

It's actually come to be very overstated. 

 

I still think there's a separation between him and the elite QBs in the league. Turnovers are a small part of that picture. But I don't believe that raw turnovers is a true distinction between an elite QB and a really good QB.

[jet1968]

The only person that out performed the Pats in the game I saw was the equipment manager. The rest was outmanned by a long shot especially the offensive and defensive lines. I think big games are won in the trenches and that is why the Colts lost. Hope that there is some big upgrades in the off season.

[Bones_Jones]

those who have luck over brady really isn't understanding the game.   yes, luck is younger and has more talent, but brady runs circle around luck in terms of pocket presence, awareness, presnap ability, and an inspiring leadership.   brady brings out the best in you because he makes others believe.

 

i believe luck will have that 'aura' someday.  but right now it's not close to brady's.  and that matters.  game of the football is 50% mental.

 

 

anyway, pats are more talented overall, but not by much.  

[Bones_Jones]

The only person that out performed the Pats in the game I saw was the equipment manager. The rest was outmanned by a long shot especially the offensive and defensive lines. I think big games are won in the trenches and that is why the Colts lost. Hope that there is some big upgrades in the off season.

eh ok.  brady -  3tds 1ints. 100qb rating.    luck -  zero tds 2ints.  23qb rating

 

 

 

and it was a blowout.   luck and colts were dominated.   it was a good old pats humble pie.    you guys were out played, out schemed, got dominated in the trench, and got dissected by a master.

 

IMO, you guys are 2 years away.

[SouthernCal]

those who have luck over brady really isn't understanding the game. yes, luck is younger and has more talent, but brady runs circle around luck in terms of pocket presence, awareness, presnap ability, and an inspiring leadership. brady brings out the best in you because he makes others believe.

i believe luck will have that 'aura' someday. but right now it's not close to brady's. and that matters. game of the football is 50% mental.

anyway, pats are more talented overall, but not by much.

Still picking Luck regardless. Those two picks comes in when the Pats are up 31-7. That's garbage time picks basically. And the Pats are much talented by a lot.

You're not convincing anyone to pick Brady over Luck in a colts forum. Sorry.

[pgt_rob]

So what? That's clearly a major flaw which prevents him from being elite.

 

We know. Now let's get it moving before it turns into a bash Andrew Luck because he turns the ball over thread.

[GoPats]

Maybe not as many as you think.

 

I didn't mean that success is years away, I mean "the end" is years away for Luck... as in, you have a long ride ahead of you to enjoy. Dang you Indy fans are uber-sensitive about your QBs. 

[SouthernCal]

I didn't mean that success is years away, I mean "the end" is years away for Luck... as in, you have a long ride ahead of you to enjoy. Dang you Indy fans are uber-sensitive about your QBs.

how many years away for luck to take over

[crazycolt1]

I didn't mean that success is years away, I mean "the end" is years away for Luck... as in, you have a long ride ahead of you to enjoy. Dang you Indy fans are uber-sensitive about your QBs. 

Like Patriot fans don't think Brady is God like? For years we Colt fans have heard all about the Brady vs Manning debate when it was all about the teams in the first place. Now some Patriot fans like to go the Luck vs Brady route. When that don't get the results wanted they start with the Luck vs Wilson thingy that was started by a Patriot fan earlier in the playoffs.

[amfootball]

Like Patriot fans don't think Brady is God like? For years we Colt fans have heard all about the Brady vs Manning debate when it was all about the teams in the first place. Now some Patriot fans like to go the Luck vs Brady route. When that don't get the results wanted they start with the Luck vs Wilson thingy that was started by a Patriot fan earlier in the playoffs.

After watching Wilson in the NFCCG and the SB, Luck is 1000 times better. You got the best QB in the draft. Enjoy it!

[GoPats]

how many years away for luck to take over

 

I'd say two to three years away. Indy needs to build around him some more to compete, but you guys know that. Give him a serviceable defense and an above-average line and Luck will be top dog for years to come. I don't really even see anyone right now who I think could rival him. 

 

 

Like Patriot fans don't think Brady is God like? For years we Colt fans have heard all about the Brady vs Manning debate when it was all about the teams in the first place. Now some Patriot fans like to go the Luck vs Brady route. When that don't get the results wanted they start with the Luck vs Wilson thingy that was started by a Patriot fan earlier in the playoffs.

 

I literally have no idea what you're talking about man. Literally. I keep paying Luck compliments and you keep responding like I've insulted your entire family somehow.

[JerodMayo51]

Dang you Indy fans are uber-sensitive about your QBs.

Understatement of the year lol

[crazycolt1]

I'd say two to three years away. Indy needs to build around him some more to compete, but you guys know that. Give him a serviceable defense and an above-average line and Luck will be top dog for years to come. I don't really even see anyone right now who I think could rival him. 

 

 

 

I literally have no idea what you're talking about man. Literally. I keep paying Luck compliments and you keep responding like I've insulted your entire family somehow.

My comment was in respond to you saying we were what you call uber-sensitive. The Patriots fans are the same way with Brady. That's all. It's no big deal.

[crazycolt1]

No, he's not . He turns the ball over far too often.

I am sorry you cant comprehend why Luck's turn over rate is high. He has no threat of a running game. He has very little time to read his progressions. He is maybe hit and sacked as much as any QB in the league. If it wasn't for his athletic ability he would be the most sacked QB by a lot. I am not positive of the number but the Colts started 12 or 13 different combinations of the offensive line this season alone. All of these things contribute to his turn over rate. Out of these things mentioned does Brady and any other QB you consider elite have those problems?

[dgambill]

Honestly I don't know of one thing we do better than NE except throw it deep...and when you have a secondary like theirs....well thats a mute point....across the board they are just a better team, WAY better coached, and just as young if not younger and getting better. Except for Wilfork and Brady that team is poised to continue to get better.

[dgambill]

I'd say two to three years away. Indy needs to build around him some more to compete, but you guys know that. Give him a serviceable defense and an above-average line and Luck will be top dog for years to come. I don't really even see anyone right now who I think could rival him. 

 

 

 

I literally have no idea what you're talking about man. Literally. I keep paying Luck compliments and you keep responding like I've insulted your entire family somehow.

This is just my opinion but I think a lot of Indy fans have inferiority complexes. Small market, little media discussion, and the fact that outside our 06 Colts we haven't won anything here going back to the ABA days. We have very little to cheer for except the our Colts and Pacers so we take them very seriously...and we've had VERY VERY few stars. Talking Reggie Miller, Peyton Manning, and now perhaps Andrew Luck and Paul George. Thus with a limited history and few stars we hang on to the ones we have very closely and defensively. Living in fly over country we are used to the media dismissing us or simply focusing on East Coast/West Coast teams....whether thats the Celtics/Knicks/Lakers....Patriots/Jets/Giants/Cowboys...or Red Sox/Yankees. Then the rest of the media kinda assumes that everyone out here is almost uneducated, conservative zealots we just get kind of sick defending ourselves. Again...just my own opinion...not speaking for anyone other than what I feel that I've seen myself. Given a lot of those things I think people have tend to hold onto a few of the stars or bright things we have and really feel passionately about them...and sometimes yes a little unrationally lol. Most fan bases are pretty biased...including your own...nothing wrong with that...just how it is....we don't have as many fans due to population size and all but they are just as equally passionate I assure you...and with fewer teams and things to follow...they tend to be very sensative lol.

[GoPats]

This is just my opinion but I think a lot of Indy fans have inferiority complexes. Small market, little media discussion, and the fact that outside our 06 Colts we haven't won anything here going back to the ABA days. We have very little to cheer for except the our Colts and Pacers so we take them very seriously...and we've had VERY VERY few stars. Talking Reggie Miller, Peyton Manning, and now perhaps Andrew Luck and Paul George. Thus with a limited history and few stars we hang on to the ones we have very closely and defensively. Living in fly over country we are used to the media dismissing us or simply focusing on East Coast/West Coast teams....whether thats the Celtics/Knicks/Lakers....Patriots/Jets/Giants/Cowboys...or Red Sox/Yankees. Then the rest of the media kinda assumes that everyone out here is almost uneducated, conservative zealots we just get kind of sick defending ourselves. Again...just my own opinion...not speaking for anyone other than what I feel that I've seen myself. Given a lot of those things I think people have tend to hold onto a few of the stars or bright things we have and really feel passionately about them...and sometimes yes a little unrationally lol. Most fan bases are pretty biased...including your own...nothing wrong with that...just how it is....we don't have as many fans due to population size and all but they are just as equally passionate I assure you...and with fewer teams and things to follow...they tend to be very sensative lol.

 

 

 

Thanks dgambill... that all makes a lot of sense. The funny thing (from where I was sitting) is that I wasn't slamming Luck at all... in fact just the opposite. I think once Indy strengthens the team around him and he gets a little more experience under his belt, he's going to be far and away the best QB in the league. Like I said earlier, no one - in my opinion - will come close among his contemporaries. 

[da_pats_troll]

Still picking Luck regardless. Those two picks comes in when the Pats are up 31-7. That's garbage time picks basically. And the Pats are much talented by a lot.

You're not convincing anyone to pick Brady over Luck in a colts forum. Sorry.

 

Let me ask you this, as I find this interesting. Given what you know right now, if you could have the choice between Luck, right now, or Brady of 2004 going forward, which one would you pick?

[SouthernCal]

Let me ask you this, as I find this interesting. Given what you know right now, if you could have the choice between Luck, right now, or Brady of 2004 going forward, which one would you pick?

First question.

Who's my head coach?

[da_pats_troll]

First question.

Who's my head coach?

 

Rex Ryan!

 

kidding.

 

Lets make it simpler, to eliminate all the possibilities. 

 

Current Colts organization, players, coaching staff. 

[SouthernCal]

Rex Ryan!

kidding.

Lets make it simpler, to eliminate all the possibilities.

Current Colts organization, players, coaching staff.

Was Brady mobile back in 2004 in his prime?

EDIT: if he's not, I'll take luck because Brady was 27 in 2004. Luck is 25 now. I'll take a mobile QB with two extra years/chances at superbowls.

[da_pats_troll]

Was Brady mobile back in 2004 in his prime?

 

Brady and mobile?

 

Seriously????

 

I would say his best trait was moving a few feet in the pocket to give that extra second or 2. He was probably more mobile this year then any other. But to break the pocket and run, nope, that was never his forte.

[ViriLudant]

This is just my opinion but I think a lot of Indy fans have inferiority complexes. Small market, little media discussion, and the fact that outside our 06 Colts we haven't won anything here going back to the ABA days. We have very little to cheer for except the our Colts and Pacers so we take them very seriously...and we've had VERY VERY few stars. Talking Reggie Miller, Peyton Manning, and now perhaps Andrew Luck and Paul George. Thus with a limited history and few stars we hang on to the ones we have very closely and defensively. Living in fly over country we are used to the media dismissing us or simply focusing on East Coast/West Coast teams....whether thats the Celtics/Knicks/Lakers....Patriots/Jets/Giants/Cowboys...or Red Sox/Yankees. Then the rest of the media kinda assumes that everyone out here is almost uneducated, conservative zealots we just get kind of sick defending ourselves. Again...just my own opinion...not speaking for anyone other than what I feel that I've seen myself. Given a lot of those things I think people have tend to hold onto a few of the stars or bright things we have and really feel passionately about them...and sometimes yes a little unrationally lol. Most fan bases are pretty biased...including your own...nothing wrong with that...just how it is....we don't have as many fans due to population size and all but they are just as equally passionate I assure you...and with fewer teams and things to follow...they tend to be very sensative lol.

Understandable ; we Red Sox fans used to be the same way about the Yankees. It's natural.