Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

Why


OLD FAN MAN

Recommended Posts

We had Coyer who said he wasn't able to run the defense the way he wanted. Some claim Polian is the reason why, though I can't say anything myself because I don't know. Our Tampa 2 shell is fine, we just need to be more aggressive with it. More jams, more blitzes, more stunts, etc.

I agree Tampa 2 only works with the perfect personel. Thr bucs won a SB with it because they had almost the perfect personel. I would like a 4-3 over/under. Its more aggresive and sends in more LB blitzes (which is Wheeler and Conners speciality). And it utalizes more man coverage from the corners allowing them to jam and be aggresive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We had Coyer who said he wasn't able to run the defense the way he wanted. Some claim Polian is the reason why, though I can't say anything myself because I don't know. Our Tampa 2 shell is fine, we just need to be more aggressive with it. More jams, more blitzes, more stunts, etc.

Agreed, but a little bit of change would be nice too. By that I mean, maybe playing more man coverages as Jerraud and Rucker played a lot of that in college and succeeded. Variety makes a great defense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We had Coyer who said he wasn't able to run the defense the way he wanted. Some claim Polian is the reason why, though I can't say anything myself because I don't know. Our Tampa 2 shell is fine, we just need to be more aggressive with it. More jams, more blitzes, more stunts, etc.

Remember, Coyer failed in Denver before he came here. Failures make excuses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Take a look at this vid. It explains alot on why the 4-3(Tampa 2) isn't outdated.

People..I dont know where Brett got this...but if you can last through the goofy' fan's long-winded question..

....you should watch it..

He isnt talking about Indy...but to me he suggests that we THINK we can get pressure with 4 men...that we arent getting.

If that's true..we need a dominant mobile tackle...Could be Nevis

We also need to send somebody at the QB from outside the offensive tackle..

This video also suggests that we need to hire Brian Billick :thmup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

why we have not started a new defensive system this year?, are we going to wait till next year and waste that season too, why not see how our present players fit in a new system, if they cant git rid of them

It's actually pretty simple why.

First it's almost impossible to implement an entire defense system mid season. I actually can't think of a single instance where a team has tried it let along had success attempting it.

Secondly, we've spent the past however many years drafting players to fit a specific scheme. Putting them out of position and asking them to do something they probably aren't physically suited for mid season isn't going to make things better.

Finally, we just fired our DC and don't know what the rest of our coaching staff is going to look like. What good would changing systems now do if our new coach is going to change it again?

It sucks, but we're going to have to be patient here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's actually pretty simple why.

First it's almost impossible to implement an entire defense system mid season. I actually can't think of a single instance where a team has tried it let along had success attempting it.

Secondly, we've spent the past however many years drafting players to fit a specific scheme. Putting them out of position and asking them to do something they probably aren't physically suited for mid season isn't going to make things better.

Finally, we just fired our DC and don't know what the rest of our coaching staff is going to look like. What good would changing systems now do if our new coach is going to change it again?

It sucks, but we're going to have to be patient here.

but... but...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People..I dont know where Brett got this...but if you can last through the goofy' fan's long-winded question..

....you should watch it..

He isnt talking about Indy...but to me he suggests that we THINK we can get pressure with 4 men...that we arent getting.

If that's true..we need a dominant mobile tackle...Could be Nevis

We also need to send somebody at the QB from outside the offensive tackle..

This video also suggests that we need to hire Brian Billick :thmup:

Ty :P

And really I'm talking about our defensive scheme exclusively. I'm not talking about it in reference to our teams performance this year. Our d is terrible because Peyton isn't there to run up the score. Thats a whole different story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's actually pretty simple why.

First it's almost impossible to implement an entire defense system mid season. I actually can't think of a single instance where a team has tried it let along had success attempting it.

Secondly, we've spent the past however many years drafting players to fit a specific scheme. Putting them out of position and asking them to do something they probably aren't physically suited for mid season isn't going to make things better.

Finally, we just fired our DC and don't know what the rest of our coaching staff is going to look like. What good would changing systems now do if our new coach is going to change it again?

It sucks, but we're going to have to be patient here.

Another thing is, we don't need to go 3-4 to get pressure. We have Dwight Freeney to pressure the QB. If you guys watch the video I posted, you'll see that no matter the scheme, if you can get to the QB with as small of a number of blitzers as possible your in good shape. If we can get to the qb with 4 guys, then obviously its not necessary to job to entire new alignment. Its all about personnel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Take a look at this vid. It explains alot on why the 4-3(Tampa 2) isn't outdated.

You can still play the 4-3 without a Tampa 2. He mentioned teams like Cleveland, Baltimore and the Jets. None of those teams run the Tampa 2. The original Tampa 2 (bend but don't break, hope the offense messes up) is outdated. But if you're aggressive with it and have the right personnel, you'll be fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We had Coyer who said he wasn't able to run the defense the way he wanted. Some claim Polian is the reason why, though I can't say anything myself because I don't know. Our Tampa 2 shell is fine, we just need to be more aggressive with it. More jams, more blitzes, more stunts, etc.

That's the rumblings I've heard here and there,that the coaching staff isn't really coaching,just following orders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

why we have not started a new defensive system this year?, are we going to wait till next year and waste that season too, why not see how our present players fit in a new system, if they cant git rid of them

Simple answer. We dont have the personel to play the positions required to do so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also we have a lot of money being paid to the offensive guys. Freeney off the top of my head is the only defensive guy making a lot of money. That 2002 Bucs team had a lot invested defensively. They were very good.

Anthony McFarland, Warren Sapp, Simeon Rice on the D line, Derrick Brooks at LB and their secondary was very very very good. Did I mention they were very good? That team had a combined 31 interceptions. The '05 Colts were pretty darn good too, a lot of depth in the secondary and that was a good D line that year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can still play the 4-3 without a Tampa 2. He mentioned teams like Cleveland, Baltimore and the Jets. None of those teams run the Tampa 2. The original Tampa 2 (bend but don't break, hope the offense messes up) is outdated. But if you're aggressive with it and have the right personnel, you'll be fine.

I'm kinda curious about the effect that missing Gary has had on this.

Angerer has played well, but it's been said his weakness was pass coverage, which was Gary's strength.

I can still see Pat playing 15 yards deep against the Bucs & Steelers, and all they did was continually dunk passes to the under middle all day/night long.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree Tampa 2 only works with the perfect personel. Thr bucs won a SB with it because they had almost the perfect personel. I would like a 4-3 over/under. Its more aggresive and sends in more LB blitzes (which is Wheeler and Conners speciality). And it utalizes more man coverage from the corners allowing them to jam and be aggresive.

I dont think Conner was a blitzer in college? Was he?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can still play the 4-3 without a Tampa 2. He mentioned teams like Cleveland, Baltimore and the Jets. None of those teams run the Tampa 2. The original Tampa 2 (bend but don't break, hope the offense messes up) is outdated. But if you're aggressive with it and have the right personnel, you'll be fine.

Hmm... old? yes. Over used? Yes lol. Outdated? no.

Essentially its just a coverage, but you can tweak it. The real problem with our defense, is personnel, not the scheme.

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of the Tampa 2 and dear god please let us play something else. I just don't want people to blame the wrong things, because once you do that, your pretty much throwing your argument out the window for the talking heads who already know the culprit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Btw, I miss bob

Me too, he was the guy who really made the defense click.

I disagree with your other post though. I think the scheme and personnel is fine, but the coaching is off. We have the speedy front 7 that are required to play the Tampa 2. We could use better tackles all around, though you could argue that falls on the coaches too. If the players miss tackles all over the place in one game, that's the players' fault. If that happens often, then part of the blame falls on the coaches for not doing anything to improve it. I think the players are fine, we just need better coaching. We need a defensive coordinator who isn't afraid to be aggressive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Me too, he was the guy who really made the defense click.

I disagree with your other post though. I think the scheme and personnel is fine, but the coaching is off. We have the speedy front 7 that are required to play the Tampa 2. We could use better tackles all around, though you could argue that falls on the coaches too. If the players miss tackles all over the place in one game, that's the players' fault. If that happens often, then part of the blame falls on the coaches for not doing anything to improve it. I think the players are fine, we just need better coaching. We need a defensive coordinator who isn't afraid to be aggressive.

When Bob was on the team, I had more fun watching the defense then the offense. I wanted Peyton to hurry up and score so I could see bobby fly around the field.

But back to your post. You know your right. For some reason I completely forgot about the huge cushion our corners give.

When I heard Caldwell answer that question about it in that press conference, I almost lost it. Unless we are in man 2 man, I can't really see the benefits of it. When you get good pass rush like we do, and you give a big cushion you actually help out the opposing QB. No matter if its intended to be a short or long pass, if that WR is taking an extra second to get off the line, thats an extra second the QB has to hold on to the ball. The longer the QB holds onto the ball, the more time Freeney and Mathis have to pressure. Its a no brainer kind of thing.

When Bob was on the team, I had more fun watching the defense then the offense. I wanted Peyton to hurry up and score so I could see bobby fly around the field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I heard Caldwell answer that question about it in that press conference, I almost lost it. Unless we are in man 2 man, I can't really see the benefits of it. When you get good pass rush like we do, and you give a big cushion you actually help out the opposing QB. No matter if its intended to be a short or long pass, if that WR is taking an extra second to get off the line, thats an extra second the QB has to hold on to the ball. The longer the QB holds onto the ball, the more time Freeney and Mathis have to pressure. Its a no brainer kind of thing.

And yet, our coaches don't change it...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm... old? yes. Over used? Yes lol. Outdated? no.

Essentially its just a coverage, but you can tweak it. The real problem with our defense, is personnel, not the scheme.

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of the Tampa 2 and dear god please let us play something else. I just don't want people to blame the wrong things, because once you do that, your pretty much throwing your argument out the window for the talking heads who already know the culprit.

I am starting to come over to this line of thinking now. The Chicago Bears run Tampa 2 and have become the standard of how the defense should be utilized. They run the same scheme that we do but have better talent at MLB (Urlacher) and a more aggressive secondary. They are also able to generate decent pressure with their front four. It is funny that they now have Tim Jennings, who used to be a whipping boy while with the Colts, but has now become a nice corner in Chicago. This leads me to believe that in addition to being a personnel issue it also has alot to do with COACHING and knowing how to best utilize your players. Chicago is the antithesis of Indy and shows that teams are still able to win in this league with the Tampa 2 scheme. The Colts just can't seem to do so presently because our talent level in the secondary has fallen off, we get less than adequate pass coverage from the middle linebacker position, and our coaching staff leaves much to be desired. I think the Colts should consider the Bears defensive coordinator Rod Marinelli as a candidate for our head coaching position next year. If he can get the most out of Tim Jennings, I believe that he could whip this defense back into shape with an infusion of defensive talent in the secondary and perhaps MLB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am starting to come over to this line of thinking now. The Chicago Bears run Tampa 2 and have become the standard of how the defense should be utilized. They run the same scheme that we do but have better talent at MLB (Urlacher) and a more aggressive secondary. They are also able to generate decent pressure with their front four. It is funny that they now have Tim Jennings, who used to be a whipping boy while with the Colts, but has now become a nice corner in Chicago. This leads me to believe that in addition to being a personnel issue it also has alot to do with COACHING and knowing how to best utilize your players. Chicago is the antithesis of Indy and shows that teams are still able to win in this league with the Tampa 2 scheme. The Colts just can't seem to do so presently because our talent level in the secondary has fallen off, we get less than adequate pass coverage from the middle linebacker position, and our coaching staff leaves much to be desired. I think the Colts should consider the Bears defensive coordinator Rod Marinelli as a candidate for our head coaching position next year. If he can get the most out of Tim Jennings, I believe that he could whip this defense back into shape with an infusion of defensive talent in the secondary and perhaps MLB.

Yes, I went a little to far in saying it was JUST personnel, because coaching is to fault here aswell.

I've never thought of Rod Marinelli getting another HCing shot, and really I just think he was dealt a bad hand up in Detriot. I will say that with how ever many winless lions we have on the roster, it'd be funny to go ahead and get there coach too lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Massive deal. Billions of dollars to the local economies inbound from each of these events. The Rumble is my favorite night of the year, so I’m most excited for that one. There’s nothing better than a well done Rumble.    I’ve said since the day it opened that I don’t know why WWE hasn’t run WM at the stadium. Coming in the north entrance and seeing the ring down below and a full house across the way is going to be a killer camera shot.      Hopefully they open the roof for SummerSlam. 
    • Shaw did do a very poor job of recruiting his last few years which infuriated a good part of the fan base.  They were happy to see him retire early, though he left with a very generous golden parachute which made many fans even angrier.      As for the Hogan years, yes they were very good.  But not primarily due to Hogan who was a nice college level quarterback.    Hogan was supported by (A) Christian McCaffrey and (B) the most talented Stanford recruits in school history.  Including an OL with two future 1st round draft picks on it plus other very good talent.  And (C) some of the best defensive players Stanford ever recruited.   The team was as loaded as Stanford can get.  Hogan just had to be good, there was rarely pressure for him to be great.    Someday….  (If anyone is interested)   Perhaps this off-season, I’ll tell you some great Stanford Sports stories.  The school is an odd mix of strange decisions concerning football and other sports plus some decisions that are both good and infuriating.  Most days it’s easy to be a Stanford fan.  But somedays the school makes it so hard.   Harder than they need to.       
    • 3-14 mostly cause AR is still a question mark. I do like what I did see but until he proves he can make it a season, no one knows. So I’m setting bar low
    • They didn't win a game that AR played the majority of snaps. I am not even factoring in his injury risk. Even assuming he's healthy, he's basically repeating his rookie year. While everybody would agree his upside is higher than Minshew's, there's still nothing definitive to point to AR automatically equaling more wins.    Also, as you mentioned, the Colts fundamentally stayed the same, meanwhile, AFCS teams got stronger, especially HOU and TEN. TLaw beat both Minshew and AR last year. Stroud is now in year 2. Levis will be in year 2 (and if we think AR will make a jump, we have to consider that Levis could as well).   Yes, they won 9 games last year with Minshew. But their schedule isn't the same nor is it easier. So it's weighing the impact of AR returning + some young player development) vs. a much tougher schedule of QBs + offseason improvements for other teams (in most cases) + some young player development.   When I compare what happened last year to what they are facing this year, I don't see where they are supposed to make up the ground in the win column. I suppose there could be a rash of QB injuries again. But barring that, the win improvement has to come against good-great teams, which is a tall order.  
    • History says you win with a great qb or a great defense.  A great d hasn't won in a long time.   What does that leave??
  • Members

    • AwesomeAustin

      AwesomeAustin 2,486

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Indyfan4life

      Indyfan4life 4,297

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Solid84

      Solid84 6,904

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Superman

      Superman 21,112

      Moderators
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • NFLfan

      NFLfan 17,546

      Moderators
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • John Waylon

      John Waylon 5,273

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • wig

      wig 265

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • TheNewGuy

      TheNewGuy 104

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • csmopar

      csmopar 16,346

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Yoshinator

      Yoshinator 9,469

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
×
×
  • Create New...