Falcons being investigated for piping in crowd noise

[amfootball]

Ha.  They did that after the investigation was concluded, the fines had been issued and the evidence destroyed.  But nice try.

 

I'm with AM football though, cheating is cheating.  And I must admit, between the cheating, Goodell talking about the league will investigate with a wink and smile, the out of hand TD celebrations that are promoted by the league, and the scripted feel of the games the NFL is not nearly as enjoyable to watch anymore

I agree. This has been a horrible year for the league. Did you hear Troy Vincent last night say he never read the Mueller report? I mean come on! You can't be the VP of game operations and not feel you need to read a report by a firm that investigated your league for the handling of the Rice case.

 

It has been incredibly painful as a football fan to watch what has happened to this league since Goodell came in 2006. He just has no sense for how to handle the game. He is so bent on being Mr. Joe Law that he has forgotten that the game is entertainment and while you want to maintain the integrity of the game, you don't want to go over the top either and mishandle one situation after another with zero transparency to the point that you have to have yourself investigated.

 

And then deflategate as the topper. Goodell had to do an investigation, but the way his organization managed this crisis is flat out abysmal, starting with the leaks, and then not setting expectations on the investigation. Should have said from the start that nothing will be completed until after the Super Bowl. He also should have kept the investigation to a minimal number of people on his team. And I might add, his lack of strong communications to set the tone, from Ray Rice to this, is horrible. They should have never used the word investigation - instead, will review our ball handling process from the game in question. And he should have said that he is confident in the process and adherence to the NFL's rules on competitiveness. Not making any strong statements lights a match to a spark.

 

I mean this is the clown show at this point and it is a shame as the product on the field is great as we witnessed Sunday night and this guy just keeps getting in the way.

[GoPats]

Let me get this in before any of the bitter broken hearts do it...

 

Coincidence that Atlanta's GM, Thomas Dimitroff, was with the Patriots prior to 2008? 

 

[Superman]

I agree. This has been a horrible year for the league. Did you hear Troy Vincent last night say he never read the Mueller report? I mean come on! You can't be the VP of game operations and not feel you need to read a report by a firm that investigated your league for the handling of the Rice case.

 

It has been incredibly painful as a football fan to watch what has happened to this league since Goodell came in 2006. He just has no sense for how to handle the game. He is so bent on being Mr. Joe Law that he has forgotten that the game is entertainment and while you want to maintain the integrity of the game, you don't want to go over the top either and mishandle one situation after another with zero transparency to the point that you have to have yourself investigated.

 

And then deflategate as the topper. Goodell had to do an investigation, but the way his organization managed this crisis is flat out abysmal, starting with the leaks, and then not setting expectations on the investigation. Should have said from the start that nothing will be completed until after the Super Bowl. He also should have kept the investigation to a minimal number of people on his team. And I might add, his lack of strong communications to set the tone, from Ray Rice to this, is horrible. They should have never used the word investigation - instead, will review our ball handling process from the game in question. And he should have said that he is confident in the process and adherence to the NFL's rules on competitiveness. Not making any strong statements lights a match to a spark.

 

I mean this is the clown show at this point and it is a shame as the product on the field is great as we witnessed Sunday night and this guy just keeps getting in the way.

 

I disagree with this echo chamber argument.

 

The Super Bowl was the most watched TV show ever. The NFL's ratings were up all season, despite the Ray Rice fiasco and the AP situation and OTL's report on Greg Hardy, and so on. Revenue was way up. Advertisers are still flocking to the game. People are still going to games, despite increasing ticket prices, increased parking, harsh weather, etc. The league is fine, financially speaking and from a market share perspective, which is the prime way of determining the standing and health of a sports league.

 

Also, some perspective. When Goodell took over, the league was already marred with off field antics from guys like Pac Man Jones, Tank Johnson, etc. This isn't Goodell getting in the way.

 

And if you consider the difference in the way he handled Bountygate to the way he handled the Ray Rice situation, you see a person who was probably more reserved in his disciplinary action because of the rebuke he got when the bounty suspensions were vacated (even though they shouldn't have been). Doesn't mean he handled the Rice situation properly, because he didn't, but there's a climate now where people blame Goodell for everything that happens, even when it's not remotely his fault.

 

The deflated balls situation is an example. Goodell didn't do anything wrong, neither did the league. There's nothing wrong with the way the investigation has been handled to this point. The real circus has been specifically with the pressers the Patriots chose to do, and while those were weird and overdone, IMO, there was nothing wrong with them either. Yet, you are blaming Goodell, somehow. He shouldn't have used the word "investigation"? He's a popular target, whether it makes sense or not.

 

The league is in fine standing. Goodell isn't in the way of anything. Doesn't mean I think he's a great commissioner, doesn't mean I agree with everything he does. But he's simply become the whipping boy, with little reason.

[Dustin]

Technically the crowd noise thing is not cheating. All teams do it in domes. I am sure the Saints, Colts, and the Vikings have all done it in the past.

 

It's nothing new. 

 

I don't think you know what "technically" means. 

[Dustin]

I agree. This has been a horrible year for the league. Did you hear Troy Vincent last night say he never read the Mueller report? I mean come on! You can't be the VP of game operations and not feel you need to read a report by a firm that investigated your league for the handling of the Rice case.

 

It has been incredibly painful as a football fan to watch what has happened to this league since Goodell came in 2006. He just has no sense for how to handle the game. He is so bent on being Mr. Joe Law that he has forgotten that the game is entertainment and while you want to maintain the integrity of the game, you don't want to go over the top either and mishandle one situation after another with zero transparency to the point that you have to have yourself investigated.

 

And then deflategate as the topper. Goodell had to do an investigation, but the way his organization managed this crisis is flat out abysmal, starting with the leaks, and then not setting expectations on the investigation. Should have said from the start that nothing will be completed until after the Super Bowl. He also should have kept the investigation to a minimal number of people on his team. And I might add, his lack of strong communications to set the tone, from Ray Rice to this, is horrible. They should have never used the word investigation - instead, will review our ball handling process from the game in question. And he should have said that he is confident in the process and adherence to the NFL's rules on competitiveness. Not making any strong statements lights a match to a spark.

 

I mean this is the clown show at this point and it is a shame as the product on the field is great as we witnessed Sunday night and this guy just keeps getting in the way.

 

what are ya doin there with your typeface and all that

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Belichick must be so proud of the Falcons for doing this.

[amfootball]

I disagree with this echo chamber argument.

 

The Super Bowl was the most watched TV show ever. The NFL's ratings were up all season, despite the Ray Rice fiasco and the AP situation and OTL's report on Greg Hardy, and so on. Revenue was way up. Advertisers are still flocking to the game. People are still going to games, despite increasing ticket prices, increased parking, harsh weather, etc. The league is fine, financially speaking and from a market share perspective, which is the prime way of determining the standing and health of a sports league.

 

Also, some perspective. When Goodell took over, the league was already marred with off field antics from guys like Pac Man Jones, Tank Johnson, etc. This isn't Goodell getting in the way.

 

And if you consider the difference in the way he handled Bountygate to the way he handled the Ray Rice situation, you see a person who was probably more reserved in his disciplinary action because of the rebuke he got when the bounty suspensions were vacated (even though they shouldn't have been). Doesn't mean he handled the Rice situation properly, because he didn't, but there's a climate now where people blame Goodell for everything that happens, even when it's not remotely his fault.

 

The deflated balls situation is an example. Goodell didn't do anything wrong, neither did the league. There's nothing wrong with the way the investigation has been handled to this point. The real circus has been specifically with the pressers the Patriots chose to do, and while those were weird and overdone, IMO, there was nothing wrong with them either. Yet, you are blaming Goodell, somehow. He shouldn't have used the word "investigation"? He's a popular target, whether it makes sense or not.

 

The league is in fine standing. Goodell isn't in the way of anything. Doesn't mean I think he's a great commissioner, doesn't mean I agree with everything he does. But he's simply become the whipping boy, with little reason.

Ratings being up is not a reflection of a job well done by Goodell. Quite the contrary. The league has succeeded in spite of him because the product is that good. It is too bad he ruined his relationship with Taglibue after bountygate when Paul overruled his ridiculous player suspensions as he could have really learned something from him with the messes he has mishandled this year.

 

As for the rest of your points. I strongly disagree on all of it. Issues in the league have always existed and will continue to exist, how they have been handled or should I say mishandled is the issue here. A shame really as the NFL used to be the most prestigious league in terms of how it was run and now it is anything but.

[amfootball]

what are ya doin there with your typeface and all that

I am not sure what was going on with my font.

[SouthernCal]

Ratings being up is not a reflection of a job well done by Goodell. Quite the contrary. The league has succeeded in spite of him because the product is that good. It is too bad he ruined his relationship with Taglibue after bountygate when Paul overruled his ridiculous player suspensions as he could have really learned something from him with the messes he has mishandled this year.

As for the rest of your points. I strongly disagree on all of it. Issues in the league have always existed and will continue to exist, how they have been handled or should I say mishandled is the issue here. A shame really as the NFL used to be the most prestigious league in terms of how it was run and now it is anything but.

Then what/who is the most prestigious league?

[ViriLudant]

Spygate wasn't proven? News to me

You were referring to Ballghazi, I assumed.

[Superman]

Ratings being up is not a reflection of a job well done by Goodell. Quite the contrary. The league has succeeded in spite of him because the product is that good. It is too bad he ruined his relationship with Taglibue after bountygate when Paul overruled his ridiculous player suspensions as he could have really learned something from him with the messes he has mishandled this year.

 

As for the rest of your points. I strongly disagree on all of it. Issues in the league have always existed and will continue to exist, how they have been handled or should I say mishandled is the issue here. A shame really as the NFL used to be the most prestigious league in terms of how it was run and now it is anything but.

 

I didn't say that it's a reflection of a job well done, but I don't see how it's possible to divorce the league's success from the man most responsible for running it, for almost a decade now.

 

What I said is that he isn't standing in the way of the league's success, and that's very obvious, because the league continues to be more and more successful, almost by the day. I also don't see how it's possible to quantify that the league has succeeded in spite of any one individual. That's the kind of argument a person makes when they have no evidence to support their stance. (An example: Everyone complained about how Goodell was ruining the draft by switching it to primetime during the week and putting the first round on its own day, yet ratings for the draft are better than the NBA playoffs. Then people complained when the draft was moved back a week, yet the world continued to turn, and ratings went up even further. No credit for Goodell when it works, but plenty of blame goes to him when anything even seems like a bad idea, even if it's not.)

 

There's nothing to suggest that Goodell's relationship with Tagliabue has been ruined. And if it was ruined, how would that be Goodell's fault?

 

Also, the handling, or perceived mishandling, of NFL issues has never been under a microscope as it is now. And it's mostly driven by people who are anti-Goodell in the first place, who echo each others talking points and bounce one-liners off of each other on Twitter, in ignorance or outright defiance of factual information. (For instance, you called the bounty suspensions ridiculous, despite the overwhelming evidence that the Saints players were paying each other to hurt other players. You've railed against the rules changes for player safety, saying they've made the game soft. But with the same fingers, you'll type that the NFL and Goodell don't care about player safety, and that they can't make decisions on the basis of money only. It's hyper-hypocrisy, and under any scenario, the blame is laid at Goodell's feet.)

 

Again, this is not a super defense of Goodell. What it is is a rebuttal to the idea that Goodell is somehow hurting the league. The league is doing fine, and it's incredibly dense of you to pretend that it's in spite of the person who is most in charge of running the league. That's like claiming that Apple sold 75 million iPhones in spite of Tim Cook. It's absurd.

 

What's hurting the league are the players who abuse their wives/girlfriends/kids, drive under the influence, carry firearms illegally, do drugs and PEDs, pay each other to hurt other players, etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum, and then turn around and complain about the commissioner holding them accountable for their destructive behavior.

 

What's hurting the league is when fans and media ignore the actual wrongdoers in these situations -- the players who have broken the law or disregarded the rules -- in favor of making a villain out of Roger Goodell. Looking at this Ray Rice situation, people were so interested in calling out Goodell for his admittedly poor handling of the situation that they went so far as to make a victim out of the actual criminal.

 

This is an anti-establishment, anti-authority, hive mind-manufactured situation. It's fiction. The NFL is strong, so strong that peripheral businesses with no real independent value, like Draft Kings and Fan Duel, are on pace to be $100m companies in the near future. Goodell hasn't ruined anything, and isn't standing in the way of any success. The only real danger that exists for the NFL's standing stems from the behavior of its players.

[amfootball]

I didn't say that it's a reflection of a job well done, but I don't see how it's possible to divorce the league's success from the man most responsible for running it, for almost a decade now.

 

What I said is that he isn't standing in the way of the league's success, and that's very obvious, because the league continues to be more and more successful, almost by the day. I also don't see how it's possible to quantify that the league has succeeded in spite of any one individual. That's the kind of argument a person makes when they have no evidence to support their stance. (An example: Everyone complained about how Goodell was ruining the draft by switching it to primetime during the week and putting the first round on its own day, yet ratings for the draft are better than the NBA playoffs. Then people complained when the draft was moved back a week, yet the world continued to turn, and ratings went up even further. No credit for Goodell when it works, but plenty of blame goes to him when anything even seems like a bad idea, even if it's not.)

 

There's nothing to suggest that Goodell's relationship with Tagliabue has been ruined. And if it was ruined, how would that be Goodell's fault?

 

Also, the handling, or perceived mishandling, of NFL issues has never been under a microscope as it is now. And it's mostly driven by people who are anti-Goodell in the first place, who echo each others talking points and bounce one-liners off of each other on Twitter, in ignorance or outright defiance of factual information. (For instance, you called the bounty suspensions ridiculous, despite the overwhelming evidence that the Saints players were paying each other to hurt other players. You've railed against the rules changes for player safety, saying they've made the game soft. But with the same fingers, you'll type that the NFL and Goodell don't care about player safety, and that they can't make decisions on the basis of money only. It's hyper-hypocrisy, and under any scenario, the blame is laid at Goodell's feet.)

 

Again, this is not a super defense of Goodell. What it is is a rebuttal to the idea that Goodell is somehow hurting the league. The league is doing fine, and it's incredibly dense of you to pretend that it's in spite of the person who is most in charge of running the league. That's like claiming that Apple sold 75 million iPhones in spite of Tim Cook. It's absurd.

 

What's hurting the league are the players who abuse their wives/girlfriends/kids, drive under the influence, carry firearms illegally, do drugs and PEDs, pay each other to hurt other players, etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum, and then turn around and complain about the commissioner holding them accountable for their destructive behavior.

 

What's hurting the league is when fans and media ignore the actual wrongdoers in these situations -- the players who have broken the law or disregarded the rules -- in favor of making a villain out of Roger Goodell. Looking at this Ray Rice situation, people were so interested in calling out Goodell for his admittedly poor handling of the situation that they went so far as to make a victim out of the actual criminal.

 

This is an anti-establishment, anti-authority, hive mind-manufactured situation. It's fiction. The NFL is strong, so strong that peripheral businesses with no real independent value, like Draft Kings and Fan Duel, are on pace to be $100m companies in the near future. Goodell hasn't ruined anything, and isn't standing in the way of any success. The only real danger that exists for the NFL's standing stems from the behavior of its players.

The success of the league is largely predicated on the players and the coaches. That being said Goodell has done a great job marketing the sport both domestically and internationally so he deserves credit for that.  I agree about the draft and also he added Thursday night football which has garnered great ratings despite many of the games not being very competitive. I think his best strength is thinking out of the box and not being afraid of switching up traditions. I am hoping at some point he moves the Super Bowl to Saturday night so people can enjoy the game without having to go to work the next day which will help keep the East coast ratings high after halftime when most folks turn it off if their team is not in it or if the game is not competitive.

 

I read an article last week where Tagliabue talked about how his relationship with Goodell pretty much ended after Bountygate when Tagliabue overturned his player suspensions. And this is really the crux of my stance here with Goodell. He just does not understand what Tagliabue did so well – the league is made up of players who come from underprivileged backgrounds with spotty rap sheets to say the least. You have to be able to toe this delicate line as these players are your product. When he came into the league wanting to be Joe Law he was opening a Pandora box. While many wanted to see him “clean the sport up”, not many fans or owners wanted to see their players being the ones punished. I think his fatal flaw was not coming up with a moral policy the way he has now done with a domestic violence policy so he had a guideline for how to punish players for moral issues on a consistent and fair basis. Once he decided that the law would no longer be judge and jury and that he could punish for the appearance of wrong doing, he signed his own resignation letter IMO. Every single major issue he has handedled has blown up in his face – spygate, bountygate, Ray Rice and now deflategate.  This is not some media driven conspiracy that you want to believe. This is about incompetence at the highest level of a billion dollar league. When you are commish of the NFL, scrunity comes with the job and when you have to have yourself investigated for the mishandling of a player situation, you are not doing a good job. Goodell is the one that holds the integrity of the game in his hands and right now public opinion of him is that he is a buffoon. I believe after deflategate ends he will be removed.

[Superman]

The success of the league is largely predicated on the players and the coaches. That being said Goodell has done a great job marketing the sport both domestically and internationally so he deserves credit for that.  I agree about the draft and also he added Thursday night football which has garnered great ratings despite many of the games not being very competitive. I think his best strength is thinking out of the box and not being afraid of switching up traditions. I am hoping at some point he moves the Super Bowl to Saturday night so people can enjoy the game without having to go to work the next day which will help keep the East coast ratings high after halftime when most folks turn it off if their team is not in it or if the game is not competitive.

 

In other words, the league's success is, in fact, NOT in spite of Goodell. I didn't say he's the sole reason for its success, but if he's done a good job of marketing it, then he deserves some credit for how well it's done.

 

I read an article last week where Tagliabue talked about how his relationship with Goodell pretty much ended after Bountygate when Tagliabue overturned his player suspensions.

Here's what Tagliabue said, in part: http://www.gq.com/sports/201502/roger-goodell-season-from-hell?currentPage=3

 

As for his relationship with his protégé, Tagliabue says, "We haven't talked much since I left. It's been his decision. Bountygate didn't help."

Whatever distance there is between the two of them predates Bountygate.

 

And this is really the crux of my stance here with Goodell. He just does not understand what Tagliabue did so well – the league is made up of players who come from underprivileged backgrounds with spotty rap sheets to say the least. You have to be able to toe this delicate line as these players are your product. When he came into the league wanting to be Joe Law he was opening a Pandora box.

I wonder if you've just erased from your memory all the trouble that the league had with player conduct under Tagliabue. He didn't do "so well" with it, at all. It was going to come to a head eventually, and had already begun to detract from the league's reputation before he left, mainly because of the Internet.

And Goodell didn't actually start cracking down on misconduct until he was a year into the job, a year where 79 players were arrested. There was a clear need for stricter enforcement. It's hard to understand how someone can be critical of Goodell's response to things like DUI, domestic violence, illegal possession of drugs and firearms, etc., and then at the same time criticize him for his underwhelming response to the Ray Rice situation. Again, it's hypocritical.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/nfl/longterm/2006/nfl_chart_12162006.html

 

While many wanted to see him “clean the sport up”, not many fans or owners wanted to see their players being the ones punished.

So. What.

If you believe that players who break the law, sometimes with reckless or violent behavior, is a detriment to the league, then why does it matter whether fans and/or owners disliked seeing their guys benched? Again, that's hypocritical.

 

I think his fatal flaw was not coming up with a moral policy the way he has now done with a domestic violence policy so he had a guideline for how to punish players for moral issues on a consistent and fair basis. Once he decided that the law would no longer be judge and jury and that he could punish for the appearance of wrong doing, he signed his own resignation letter IMO.

How does this make any sense? He failed in not coming up with a policy for punishing players, but now that he's come up with a (presumably) better policy, he's hurt his job security? What???

There was nothing unfair about the way Goodell handled player punishment. He was second-guessed at every turn, with partial parties arguing against the way he handled situations, but he was more than fair. The highest profile situations -- Roethlisberger and Vick -- were very clear and transparent, and overall, handled about as well as they could have been. Until Bountygate, there was really no problem; and then he followed that up with Ray Rice, when he was actually too lenient.

And about Bountygate, it was actually Tagliabue whose judgment was egregiously flawed. His report was basically 'I agree that these players did what they were accused of, and it was wrong, but I'm overturning these suspensions anyways.'

 

Every single major issue he has handedled has blown up in his face – spygate, bountygate, Ray Rice and now deflategate.  This is not some media driven conspiracy that you want to believe. This is about incompetence at the highest level of a billion dollar league. When you are commish of the NFL, scrunity comes with the job and when you have to have yourself investigated for the mishandling of a player situation, you are not doing a good job. Goodell is the one that holds the integrity of the game in his hands and right now public opinion of him is that he is a buffoon. I believe after deflategate ends he will be removed.

And that's absolutely ridiculous. At every turn, the owners have backed Goodell, on and off the record.

Public opinion is largely irrelevant, due to it's fickle and uninformed nature. And it's also entirely undermined by the fact that the public continues to consume the product, and anything to do with the product, despite all of the noise about how terrible Goodell is. The bottom line is the bottom line, and it's very firmly in Goodell's favor. Until so-called public opinion begins to be reflected in that bottom line, Goodell's job is safe.

[amfootball]

 

In other words, the league's success is, in fact, NOT in spite of Goodell. I didn't say he's the sole reason for its success, but if he's done a good job of marketing it, then he deserves some credit for how well it's done.

 

Here's what Tagliabue said, in part: http://www.gq.com/sports/201502/roger-goodell-season-from-hell?currentPage=3

 

As for his relationship with his protégé, Tagliabue says, "We haven't talked much since I left. It's been his decision. Bountygate didn't help."

Whatever distance there is between the two of them predates Bountygate.

 

I wonder if you've just erased from your memory all the trouble that the league had with player conduct under Tagliabue. He didn't do "so well" with it, at all. It was going to come to a head eventually, and had already begun to detract from the league's reputation before he left, mainly because of the Internet.

And Goodell didn't actually start cracking down on misconduct until he was a year into the job, a year where 79 players were arrested. There was a clear need for stricter enforcement. It's hard to understand how someone can be critical of Goodell's response to things like DUI, domestic violence, illegal possession of drugs and firearms, etc., and then at the same time criticize him for his underwhelming response to the Ray Rice situation. Again, it's hypocritical.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/nfl/longterm/2006/nfl_chart_12162006.html

 

So. What.

If you believe that players who break the law, sometimes with reckless or violent behavior, is a detriment to the league, then why does it matter whether fans and/or owners disliked seeing their guys benched? Again, that's hypocritical.

 

How does this make any sense? He failed in not coming up with a policy for punishing players, but now that he's come up with a (presumably) better policy, he's hurt his job security? What???

There was nothing unfair about the way Goodell handled player punishment. He was second-guessed at every turn, with partial parties arguing against the way he handled situations, but he was more than fair. The highest profile situations -- Roethlisberger and Vick -- were very clear and transparent, and overall, handled about as well as they could have been. Until Bountygate, there was really no problem; and then he followed that up with Ray Rice, when he was actually too lenient.

And about Bountygate, it was actually Tagliabue whose judgment was egregiously flawed. His report was basically 'I agree that these players did what they were accused of, and it was wrong, but I'm overturning these suspensions anyways.'

 

And that's absolutely ridiculous. At every turn, the owners have backed Goodell, on and off the record.

Public opinion is largely irrelevant, due to it's fickle and uninformed nature. And it's also entirely undermined by the fact that the public continues to consume the product, and anything to do with the product, despite all of the noise about how terrible Goodell is. The bottom line is the bottom line, and it's very firmly in Goodell's favor.

 

We can just agree to disagree. My fingers are tired from typing.

[Superman]

We can just agree to disagree. My fingers are tired from typing.

 

Wow. Three minutes.

[amfootball]

Wow. Three minutes.

They were tired from the two previous posts. lol. This cold weather is killing me with my joints. It has been extremely dry as well so hands are cracked no matter how much cream or Vaseline I put on.

[cmgww]

All the buffoons over at Pro Football Talk in the comment section after this story broke....a lot of them were saying "the Colts have been doing this for years, blah blah blah." What a bunch of *. First, it was one game. Secondly, the league investigated and found no wrongdoing. Lastly, the Dome was LOUD. Small, teflon roof, so the sound was directed right back down on the field. I tried to say this in the PFT comments and got nearly all "thumbs down." I don't know why I even bothered. PFT is the TMZ of the NFL and the commenters are on par with those on YouTube. Such a mob mentality....it is so sad that people believe something that was never even proven to be true.

[SteelCityColt]

Let me get this in before any of the bitter broken hearts do it...

 

Coincidence that Atlanta's GM, Thomas Dimitroff, was with the Patriots prior to 2008? 

 

[amfootball]

 

In other words, the league's success is, in fact, NOT in spite of Goodell. I didn't say he's the sole reason for its success, but if he's done a good job of marketing it, then he deserves some credit for how well it's done.

 

Here's what Tagliabue said, in part: http://www.gq.com/sports/201502/roger-goodell-season-from-hell?currentPage=3

 

As for his relationship with his protégé, Tagliabue says, "We haven't talked much since I left. It's been his decision. Bountygate didn't help."

Whatever distance there is between the two of them predates Bountygate.

 

I wonder if you've just erased from your memory all the trouble that the league had with player conduct under Tagliabue. He didn't do "so well" with it, at all. It was going to come to a head eventually, and had already begun to detract from the league's reputation before he left, mainly because of the Internet.

And Goodell didn't actually start cracking down on misconduct until he was a year into the job, a year where 79 players were arrested. There was a clear need for stricter enforcement. It's hard to understand how someone can be critical of Goodell's response to things like DUI, domestic violence, illegal possession of drugs and firearms, etc., and then at the same time criticize him for his underwhelming response to the Ray Rice situation. Again, it's hypocritical.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/nfl/longterm/2006/nfl_chart_12162006.html

 

So. What.

If you believe that players who break the law, sometimes with reckless or violent behavior, is a detriment to the league, then why does it matter whether fans and/or owners disliked seeing their guys benched? Again, that's hypocritical.

 

How does this make any sense? He failed in not coming up with a policy for punishing players, but now that he's come up with a (presumably) better policy, he's hurt his job security? What???

There was nothing unfair about the way Goodell handled player punishment. He was second-guessed at every turn, with partial parties arguing against the way he handled situations, but he was more than fair. The highest profile situations -- Roethlisberger and Vick -- were very clear and transparent, and overall, handled about as well as they could have been. Until Bountygate, there was really no problem; and then he followed that up with Ray Rice, when he was actually too lenient.

And about Bountygate, it was actually Tagliabue whose judgment was egregiously flawed. His report was basically 'I agree that these players did what they were accused of, and it was wrong, but I'm overturning these suspensions anyways.'

 

And that's absolutely ridiculous. At every turn, the owners have backed Goodell, on and off the record.

Public opinion is largely irrelevant, due to it's fickle and uninformed nature. And it's also entirely undermined by the fact that the public continues to consume the product, and anything to do with the product, despite all of the noise about how terrible Goodell is. The bottom line is the bottom line, and it's very firmly in Goodell's favor. Until so-called public opinion begins to be reflected in that bottom line, Goodell's job is safe.

 

One thing I meant to mention yesterday on this in terms of Goodell's job security is his relationship with Kraft which has been damaged. Kraft was his biggest supporter especially this year when he was being roasted for the handling of the Rice case. There have been articles written about how many of the owners like Tom Benson and Steve Bisicotti who are also not keen on him either. Ultimately the owners are the ones that employ him so we will see how they feel this off-season.

 

Although public opinion can be fickle it does matter in terms of how the league is perceived and right now public opinion of Goodell is at an all time low. He may be one of the worst communicators to ever hold the position along with an inability to understand the nuances of the position and what his job really is beyond being Joe Law.

 

If deflategate turns out to be nothing and the pats are exonerated from the Wells report then I believe Roger is officially on watch. No way any owner is happy with him usurping the Super Bowl for a ball air violation which should have been handled within a couple of days of the AFC champ concluding.

[Gramz]

One thing I meant to mention yesterday on this in terms of Goodell's job security is his relationship with Kraft which has been damaged. Kraft was his biggest supporter especially this year when he was being roasted for the handling of the Rice case. There have been articles written about how many of the owners like Tom Benson and Steve Bisicotti who are also not keen on him either. Ultimately the owners are the ones that employ him so we will see how they feel this off-season.

 

Although public opinion can be fickle it does matter in terms of how the league is perceived and right now public opinion of Goodell is at an all time low. He may be one of the worst communicators to ever hold the position along with an inability to understand the nuances of the position and what his job really is beyond being Joe Law.

 

If deflategate turns out to be nothing and the pats are exonerated from the Wells report then I believe Roger is officially on watch. No way any owner is happy with him usurping the Super Bowl for a ball air violation which should have been handled within a couple of days of the AFC champ concluding.

I agree that Kraft and Goodell's relationship has been damaged. That's not necessarily a bad thing for anyone other than Kraft. I don' t share your opinion that the others are looking to oust Goodell.

No matter what the final outcome, I believe he will still be the Commish.

[Football Fan]

The cheating in the NFL is getting out of hand. Gotta start penalizing these teams hard.

I think the Colts did this at the old stadium.  Should they have gotten a "hard" penalty?

[Detectacon]

I don't care because I am a Colts fan, and I only care when it's the Patriots that cheat.....allegedly.

I will be the first in line to bash the pats when they cheat. But cheating is cheating and any team caught doing it needs to be punished. The NFL is turning into the WWE. 

[Detectacon]

They are? Because I recall the Patriots owner and coach owning up to Spygate and accepting their punishment for it. Yet 7 years later I don't see all this supposed forgiveness you are referring to.

Thats probably because they are still cheating. Just saying...

[pgt_rob]

no matter how much cream or Vaseline I put on.

 

:hmm: :foot:

 

hehe

[JerodMayo51]

Thats probably because they are still cheating. Just saying...

Enlighten me, how have they "cheated" since spygate? Tell me one thing that they've done where they were found guilty of and punished for cheating.

I'm getting tired of this constant misinformation being thrown out by people suggesting that they have some long, consistent track record of cheating.. it's absolutely false and unless you have some sort of evidence or source of this so called pattern of cheating, then it's nothing more than slander.

[Detectacon]

Enlighten me, how have they "cheated" since spygate? Tell me one thing that they've done where they were found guilty of and punished for cheating.

I'm getting tired of this constant misinformation being thrown out by people suggesting that they have some long, consistent track record of cheating.. it's absolutely false and unless you have some sort of evidence or source of this so called pattern of cheating, then it's nothing more than slander.

Then take it as a slander. I could care less. I'm not getting into this with another pats patsy about how they are innocent and have never done anything wrong. Face it bro. You're team is a bunch of cheaters in the minds of most NFL fans. For crying out loud, you just how to say, "How have they been caught cheating since...?" in your reply.  If you don't like your team being called cheaters than I suggest actually posting in your teams forum. 

[SteelCityColt]

I think the Colts did this at the old stadium.  Should they have gotten a "hard" penalty?

 

They were investigated by the league and cleared... 

[Bad Morty]

Then take it as a slander. I could care less. I'm not getting into this with another pats patsy about how they are innocent and have never done anything wrong. Face it bro. You're team is a bunch of cheaters in the minds of most NFL fans. For crying out loud, you just how to say, "How have they been caught cheating since...?" in your reply.  If you don't like your team being called cheaters than I suggest actually posting in your teams forum. 

ah yessss! The hot salty tears of jealousy....how I love them so...

[SouthernCal]

^bait

[amfootball]

I agree that Kraft and Goodell's relationship has been damaged. That's not necessarily a bad thing for anyone other than Kraft. I don' t share your opinion that the others are looking to oust Goodell.

No matter what the final outcome, I believe he will still be the Commish.

Good morning Gramz. Yes, you are correct. It is bad for Kraft but also for Goodell as Kraft is one of the most influential owners in the league and also heads the leagues most successful franchise. I think if Kraft has soured or is souring on Goodell he will have a lot of pull with the other owners who employ Goodell. And as I mentioned other owners are not very keen on Goodell and his handling of league matters. I do think how deflategate turns out is pivotal for Goodell and his standing with the owners. We will see how it all unfolds. No one is happy that the Super Bowl was usurped by an air pressure issue that should have been settled within a few days of the AFC champ game.

[Gramz]

Good morning Gramz. Yes, you are correct. It is bad for Kraft but also for Goodell as Kraft is one of the most influential owners in the league and also heads the leagues most successful franchise. I think if Kraft has soured or is souring on Goodell he will have a lot of pull with the other owners who employ Goodell. And as I mentioned other owners are not very keen on Goodell and his handling of league matters. I do think how deflategate turns out is pivotal for Goodell and his standing with the owners. We will see how it all unfolds. No one is happy that the Super Bowl was usurped by an air pressure issue that should have been settled within a few days of the AFC champ game.

I just don't buy into your argument that Kraft has that much power or that much influence over the other 31 owners.

[Football Fan]

They were investigated by the league and cleared... 

There is a lot of truth to the persecution complex that many Patriots fans exhibit.  I see posters who were clamoring for ridiculous sanctions on the Patriots for deflate-gate.  Walk a mile in their shoes, and think if you would accept the above statement.  "Nothing to see here folks.  Move along."  Everyone on this board would be OK with that, right?

 

Acting like your own franchise is classy and Dudley Do-Right-ish is something that all fans do, no matter which franchise they prefer.  If you can't win, you proclaim how classy and sportsmanlike are your Giants, Steelers, Colts, Seahawks, Raiders etc.  Well, maybe not the Raiders.  They revel in badness.

 

If you look at it honestly, all the teams are doing whatever they can to win.  Be it sucking a little air out of their own footballs or their opponents football.  Be it piping in crowd noise, using stickum, taping signals (as Jimmie Johnson did), or rampant PED use (Colts are among the top abusers over the past 5 years).  Football is a game of deception and a struggle to gain any advantage.  It's not golf.  Our favorite sport is closer to the former WWF than it is to football of 50 years ago.  Another teams thug becomes our hero when he changes laundry.

 

As for "classy", our players are classy, even when they get arrested for beating another motorist in a dispute over a parking place, but "their" players are thugs. Or when they're involved in a murder that the police can't prove.  I think we all agree on that.

[Detectacon]

^bait

Nah. I won't give him the time of day either.

[Superman]

One thing I meant to mention yesterday on this in terms of Goodell's job security is his relationship with Kraft which has been damaged. Kraft was his biggest supporter especially this year when he was being roasted for the handling of the Rice case. There have been articles written about how many of the owners like Tom Benson and Steve Bisicotti who are also not keen on him either. Ultimately the owners are the ones that employ him so we will see how they feel this off-season.

 

Although public opinion can be fickle it does matter in terms of how the league is perceived and right now public opinion of Goodell is at an all time low. He may be one of the worst communicators to ever hold the position along with an inability to understand the nuances of the position and what his job really is beyond being Joe Law.

 

If deflategate turns out to be nothing and the pats are exonerated from the Wells report then I believe Roger is officially on watch. No way any owner is happy with him usurping the Super Bowl for a ball air violation which should have been handled within a couple of days of the AFC champ concluding.

 

I fail to understand why anyone associated with the Patriots, least of all Kraft, would take exception with Goodell for allowing them to be investigated when accusations are made. Perhaps I'm being naive in thinking that Kraft wouldn't be so childish as to throw a tantrum because of an investigation, especially if the investigation clears his team.

 

By the way, while recent reports seem to be more encouraging for the Patriots, many are acting as if it's been decided that they didn't do anything wrong. According to PFT, there are some associated with the league who called Rapaport's report "wrong." I'm weary of the debate, and am willing to wait and see what happens.

 

Also, public opinion isn't how Goodell is graded. Sorry. All the people talking about how Goodell's job is in danger and how he's a terrible commissioner and whatnot have no standing, and their opinion stands in stark contrast to the expressed opinions of league owners, most of whom have expressed confidence in Goodell this season. I don't think there's been one owner to say anything negative about him, even at the height of the Ray Rice situation. And with the league continuing to make money hand over fist, with the league continuing to dominate ratings (including the "unpopular" Thursday night games), etc., etc., it's impossible to believe that he doesn't understand the job. That's just something people who don't like him say. 

[amfootball]

I fail to understand why anyone associated with the Patriots, least of all Kraft, would take exception with Goodell for allowing them to be investigated when accusations are made. Perhaps I'm being naive in thinking that Kraft wouldn't be so childish as to throw a tantrum because of an investigation, especially if the investigation clears his team.

 

By the way, while recent reports seem to be more encouraging for the Patriots, many are acting as if it's been decided that they didn't do anything wrong. According to PFT, there are some associated with the league who called Rapaport's report "wrong." I'm weary of the debate, and am willing to wait and see what happens.

 

Also, public opinion isn't how Goodell is graded. Sorry. All the people talking about how Goodell's job is in danger and how he's a terrible commissioner and whatnot have no standing, and their opinion stands in stark contrast to the expressed opinions of league owners, most of whom have expressed confidence in Goodell this season. I don't think there's been one owner to say anything negative about him, even at the height of the Ray Rice situation. And with the league continuing to make money hand over fist, with the league continuing to dominate ratings (including the "unpopular" Thursday night games), etc., etc., it's impossible to believe that he doesn't understand the job. That's just something people who don't like him say. 

The issue Kraft has is not with the investigation but how it was handled from a communications stand point with the leaks and failure by the league to make any strong statements and set perimeters which allowed the story to spiral out of control with the Pats looking guilty from the get go. See my post #41 on this issue.

 

I agree about all the reports. As I said to you before this whole thing got rolling, you will never get the truth from the media. Believe me when I tell you the confusion is intentional coming from every direction. This is how the communications landscape is laid these days. Everything is based on sensationalism and social media is its engine. So called journalists come to us with their “reports” that sound so believable only to be refuted by later “reports.” And this is not just in the sports arena but in politics and economics as well. What truth there is veiled and that is intentional. Everything is leaked, nothing is official and those in the know don’t say a word or provide conflicting statements.

 

In terms of Goodell, public opinion matters greatly in his position as he is viewed as the ultimate defender of the NFL shield. And of course the public is what funds the billion dollar league. And I would not take the owners publicly praising Goodell as any indication of how they really feel about him. After all he works for them. If they come out and say what a terrible job he is doing then it reflects poorly on them. I do believe that none of them are happy that Super Bowl got usurped by a potential ball deflation story that should have been settled with a couple of days of the AFC title game but somehow has turned into a ridiculous weeks long investigation. I also believe it matters greately that Kraft is not happy with him and publicly called him out from the podium the Monday before the Super Bowl and also did not appear for his state of the league address the following Friday. Kraft is a very influential owner in the league and also led the public charge to defend Goodell when he was making a fool of himself with the Rice situation. We will see where it all ends up when the Wells report comes out but I do believe he is on thin ice. While he has done a good job marketing the sport, everyone knows it is the product on the field that carries the day and any business man worth his salt could continue to steer the revenue ship.

[Nadine]

It will be interesting to see what the punishment is for that.

I'll be interested to see how they did this

[Gramz]

 

 

In terms of Goodell, public opinion matters greatly in his position as he is viewed as the ultimate defender of the NFL shield. And of course the public is what funds the billion dollar league. And I would not take the owners publicly praising Goodell as any indication of how they really feel about him. After all he works for them. If they come out and say what a terrible job he is doing then it reflects poorly on them. I do believe that none of them are happy that Super Bowl got usurped by a potential ball deflation story that should have been settled with a couple of days of the AFC title game but somehow has turned into a ridiculous weeks long investigation. I also believe it matters greately that Kraft is not happy with him and publicly called him out from the podium 

 

  In your opinion if  the other 31 owners spoke out about Goodell it would be a poor reflection on them,  but when Kraft calls him out and does it publicly  He's Brilliant

 

I honestly don't understand your misconception that Kraft is Above all the other owners.

[amfootball]

  In your opinion if  the other 31 owners spoke out about Goodell it would be a poor reflection on them,  but when Kraft calls him out and does it publicly  He's Brilliant

 

I honestly don't understand your misconception that Kraft is Above all the other owners.

He is not above the other owners just has a lot of influence.

[Gramz]

He is not above the other owners 

This, we agree on.    I just want to know why you think if the other 31 Owners speak out against Goodell it would be a bad reflection on them, but when Kraft did, you don't think it's a bad reflection on him?

[amfootball]

This, we agree on.    I just want to know why you think if the other 31 Owners speak out against Goodell it would be a bad reflection on them, but when Kraft did, you don't think it's a bad reflection on him?

Kraft was speaking out on an issue specific to his team and the handling of that issue by the league. I think what it signifies is that Kraft did not care about public perception at all that is how upset he is with Goodell as it would normally be in poor appearance to call out the league like that. That is why I think that is such bad news for Goodell. Kraft has been his biggest supporter and did call him out at the Super Bowl. My brilliant comment had more to do with the communications side of it in terms of Kraft getting the focus back on the game for his team and showing such strong support for his GM/coach and QB.