Speculation Thread: What do you think happened at Deflategate? (Merge)

[Cynjin]

There are 3 explanations I can think of that match the information we know.

 

1. As you stated, the pats deflated them secretly.

2. The balls were sent to the refs underinflated, and the refs did not do their job. 

3. The balls were filled to regulation with hot air. The bladder would act as an insulator for a small amount of time, allowing it to pass inspection. When brought outside into the colder air, they lost pressure more dramatically the balls inflated at a lower temperature, ie, room temperature.

 

All of these scenarios meet your condition of logical explanations.

 

First one yes.  The second one no, that has already been shown to be false.  The third one again is the Patriots cheating.  So of the explanations you put forth, the only logical explanation is that the Patriots purposely played with under-inflated footballs.

[basspapaw]

the patriots have to make him available to the media. They haven't done that.

According to Belichick They have made everyone involved with the situation available

Im just saying its starting to smell(more  than it already does)

[da_pats_troll]

the patriots have to make him available to the media. They haven't done that.

 

I thought it was just the assistant coaches, etc? is it the managers also?

[Shane Bond]

Mark Brunell: "I did not believe what Tom had to say. Those balls were deflated. Somebody had to do it. I don't believe there's an equipment manager in the NFL that would, on his own initiative, deflate a ball without the starting QB's approval ... That football is our livelihood. If you don't feel good about throwing that ball? Your success on the football field can suffer from that."

Jerome Bettis: "I'm so disappointed because I thought this was a perfect opportunity for Tom Brady to go and say 'You know what? I made a mistake. I blew it. It's on me. I'll take the blame here, and this will go away.' He didn't do that ... I'm disappointed in you, Tom Brady."

Brian Dawkins: "This is unbelievable. For you not to know what you touch every play? ... The equipment manager is being thrown under the bus now. Now he's the guy. Now he's the one responsible. He took it upon himself to doctor up the balls when nobody else knew about it? That hard [to believe]."

 

 

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/12213363/tom-brady-tale-hold-weight

[da_pats_troll]

First one yes.  The second one no, that has already been shown to be false.  The third one again is the Patriots cheating.  So of the explanations you put forth, the only logical explanation is that the Patriots purposely played with under-inflated footballs.

 

They are all logical explanations. The second one has not been "proved" to be false. The refs could be lying to keep their butts out of the fire. 

 

Your acceptance or rejection of them does not make them any more or less logical. You are not the final judge on logic.

[jvan1973]

I thought it was just the assistant coaches, etc? is it the managers also?

they are all patriots employees

[jvan1973]

According to Belichick They have made everyone involved with the situation available

Im just saying its starting to smell(more than it already does)

no he didn't. Not to the media. They have been available to be questioned by the league in its investigation.

[Shane Bond]

Everything is pointing towards Tom Brady now.

[da_pats_troll]

they are all patriots employees

 

Yes, of course. We may not be on the same page. The pats have made them available to the league. I'm talking about media day..is it players and coaches, or all employees?

[jvan1973]

Yes, of course. We may not be on the same page. The pats have made them available to the league. I'm talking about media day..is it players and coaches, or all employees?

I'm not sure about that. I can't imagine they would be required to make the equipment manager and ball boys available to media ever, especially sb media day

[OffensivelyPC]

There are 3 explanations I can think of that match the information we know.

1. As you stated, the pats deflated them secretly.

2. The balls were sent to the refs underinflated, and the refs did not do their job.

3. The balls were filled to regulation with hot air. The bladder would act as an insulator for a small amount of time, allowing it to pass inspection. When brought outside into the colder air, they lost pressure more dramatically the balls inflated at a lower temperature, ie, room temperature.

All of these scenarios meet your condition of logical explanations.

to #2, it would be pretty hard to explain how the Colts balls passed inspection and the pats balls didnT because the refs just didn't "do their job."

#3 would be the same as intentionally deflating the footballs.

[basspapaw]

They are used to that and it is after all the Super Bowl. Hawks will be asked to. We will see how they handle the entire SB being about the Pats. They did not have to deal with that last year with the ho hum Fox led Broncos who did not even prepare for the crowd noise. This year they have to deal with the best HC and QB in the post-season on top of the controversy drama. The Pats are in their element being under scrutiny for the last 15 years and their historic run and sixth SB, Hawks not so much. I think Sherman explodes from not getting enough attention. I have never looked so forward to media day and the pressers in my life. This is going to be the best week of TV ever leading up to the bowl AND a great game too.

The Pats are in their element being under scrutiny for the last 15 years THESE are your words Why have they been under scrutiny, I can answer that They have skirted the rules along with outright cheating numerous times! Its not rocket science , I would prefer to be in the news because I have the best team, not because I use whatever means available to get the chance to be the best team.

[da_pats_troll]

to #2, it would be pretty hard to explain how the Colts balls passed inspection and the pats balls didnT because the refs just didn't "do their job."

#3 would be the same as intentionally deflating the footballs.

 

The colts had their balls pumped to the proper levels, perhaps even at the top level. They would lose some air but not enough to come down below the limit. The pats balls were below the limit, and they relied on the refs to pump them back to accepted levels. The premise is the refs did not do their job. They simply reach in the bags, did a squeeze test and moved on.

 

#3 is not the same. There is no guidance in the rules about temperature. Only pressure. 

[basspapaw]

What are you talking about? I think the NFL is doing the right thing to hire the investigative team. This is very hard to prove. Bring in the best in the business to try to find forensics I guess and video footage of the Pats which in and of itself is ironic.

WOW Its so blantant, you  cant see past your nose It happened what is there to prove Brady likes them underiflated. they were underinflated! that has been proven

[OffensivelyPC]

The colts had their balls pumped to the proper levels, perhaps even at the top level. They would lose some air but not enough to come down below the limit. The pats balls were below the limit, and they relied on the refs to pump them back to accepted levels. The premise is the refs did not do their job. They simply reach in the bags, did a squeeze test and moved on.

#3 is not the same. There is no guidance in the rules about temperature. Only pressure.

purposefully fill it with hot air knowing it would deflate more rapidly in cold air? You'd have to be an * to think the pats didn't know that hot air would deflate faster. It's the same thing.

[basspapaw]

Yes, of course. We may not be on the same page. The pats have made them available to the league. I'm talking about media day..is it players and coaches, or all employees?

You better hope its not all employees .Some one will spill the beans,(take the air out of there sails)

[Cynjin]

They are all logical explanations. The second one has not been "proved" to be false. The refs could be lying to keep their butts out of the fire. 

 

Your acceptance or rejection of them does not make them any more or less logical. You are not the final judge on logic.

 

Yeah everyone but the Patriots are lying, yeah thats the ticket.  The same Patriots organization that has a history of skirting and breaking rules, they are the ones telling the truth.  The refs that worked the game have had no such history that we know of, hmmm which one should I believe?

 

You may not want to believe it, but the refs that worked the game checked all the footballs prior to the game and they were all in compliance.  Somehow only the Patriot's footballs show up later being under-inflated, none of the other footballs.  However, you keep on believing that the refs that worked the game somehow managed to only screw up checking the Patriot's game balls and that is a "logical" explanation.

[basspapaw]

no he didn't. Not to the media. They have been available to be questioned by the league in its investigation.

Oh, my bad But until they are we will never know, more cover up?

[jvan1973]

Oh, my bad But until they are we will never know, more cover up?

cover up by the pats? I think that much is obvious. The balls lost air. Someone on the team let the air out.

[da_pats_troll]

purposefully fill it with hot air knowing it would deflate more rapidly in cold air? You'd have to be an * to think the pats didn't know that hot air would deflate faster. It's the same thing.

 

If that was the explanation, then of course they knew it would. The challenge was to provide alternative explanations, thats all. 

[OffensivelyPC]

If that was the explanation, then of course they knew it would. The challenge was to provide alternative explanations, thats all.

and I'm saying that explanation, regardless of whether logical, is still deceptive.

[Blue Horseshoe]

[basspapaw]

cover up by the pats? I think that much is obvious. The balls lost air. Someone on the team let the air out.

Im begining to thank the cover up is going deeper that The league and the media should be screaming to talk to the equipment managers

[da_pats_troll]

Yeah everyone but the Patriots are lying, yeah thats the ticket.  The same Patriots organization that has a history of skirting and breaking rules, they are the ones telling the truth.  The refs that worked the game have had no such history that we know of, hmmm which one should I believe?

 

You may not want to believe it, but the refs that worked the game checked all the footballs prior to the game and they were all in compliance.  Somehow only the Patriot's footballs show up later being under-inflated, none of the other footballs.  However, you keep on believing that the refs that worked the game somehow managed to only screw up checking the Patriot's game balls and that is a "logical" explanation.

 

you asked for logical explanations. I never said I believed the refs did that or not. Dont confuse the scenario's with my beliefs. The refs could of simply squeezed a few balls, didnt notice anything and then told the league "they met the standard".  

 

Like it or not, believe it or not. Doesnt lessen the fact that the scenario meets the criteria of a logical explanation.

[da_pats_troll]

You better hope its not all employees .Some one will spill the beans,(take the air out of there sails)

 

That would be a deflating  moment.. (yeah, I had to go there)

[Blue Horseshoe]

Im begining to thank the cover up is going deeper that The league and the media should be screaming to talk to the equipment managers

 

It's obvious what is going on.  They are all stalling the clock to avoid suspending anyone for the Super Bowl.

They will wait until after it and then suspensions will come and draft picks will be forfeit but it won't make any difference for the Super Bowl. 

[OffensivelyPC]

It's obvious what is going on. They are all stalling the clock to avoid suspending anyone for the Super Bowl.

They will wait until after it and then suspensions will come and draft picks will be forfeit but it won't make any difference for the Super Bowl.

that's exactly what this is all about, and the nfl will oblige them.

[Cynjin]

you asked for logical explanations. I never said I believed the refs did that or not. Dont confuse the scenario's with my beliefs. The refs could of simply squeezed a few balls, didnt notice anything and then told the league "they met the standard".  

 

Like it or not, believe it or not. Doesnt lessen the fact that the scenario meets the criteria of a logical explanation.

 

That is in no way a logical explanation except in the mind of a blinded Patriots fan.  Again, the refs checked ALL the footballs and they were in compliance, ONLY the Patriot's footballs came back under-inflated later.

[da_pats_troll]

That is in no way a logical explanation except in the mind of a blinded Patriots fan.  Again, the refs checked ALL the footballs and they were in compliance, ONLY the Patriot's footballs came back under-inflated later.

 

Maybe I am not getting the point of that scenario across. The refs are lying to the league. The league thinks the tests were done properly. I am making no claims if it happened or not. It matches the information we have at hand.

 

Again, your acceptance of it as logical or not does not invalidate the scenario.

[Cynjin]

Maybe I am not getting the point of that scenario across. The refs are lying to the league. The league thinks the tests were done properly. I am making no claims if it happened or not. It matches the information we have at hand.

 

Again, your acceptance of it as logical or not does not invalidate the scenario.

 

I get your point, but it is still not logical.  Unless you are saying the refs had it out for the Patriots and purposely tampered with the Patriots' footballs.  There is no logical reason to not believe the refs, however there are reasons to not believe the Patriots.

[Gramz]

purposefully fill it with hot air knowing it would deflate more rapidly in cold air? You'd have to be an * to think the pats didn't know that hot air would deflate faster. It's the same thing.

My thoughts exactly.   And each and every scenario presented so far, all spell Deception no matter what color your glasses are.

[NFLfan]

There are 3 explanations I can think of that match the information we know.

1. As you stated, the pats deflated them secretly.

2. The balls were sent to the refs underinflated, and the refs did not do their job.

3. The balls were filled to regulation with hot air. The bladder would act as an insulator for a small amount of time, allowing it to pass inspection. When brought outside into the colder air, they lost pressure more dramatically the balls inflated at a lower temperature, ie, room temperature.

All of these scenarios meet your condition of logical explanations.

All those scenarios are attempts by the Pats to break or skirt the rules. I think #2 is not implausible but the Pats sending the footballs underinflated is an attempt to skirt the rules.

[da_pats_troll]

I get your point, but it is still not logical.  Unless you are saying the refs had it out for the Patriots and purposely tampered with the Patriots' footballs.  There is no logical reason to not believe the refs, however there are reasons to not believe the Patriots.

 

No no, Not saying that at all. I am saying the refs were lazy. Balls come in, and the proper tests are not done. Of course, to cover their butt, they told the league the tests were done and everything was ok.  In no way am I saying the refs tampered (not even sure where that came from!)

[da_pats_troll]

All those scenarios are attempts by the Pats to break or skirt the rules. I think #2 is not implausible but the Pats sending the footballs underinflated is an attempt to skirt the rules.

 

I am purposely not trying to debate the morality of any of those scenario's, but none of them are "good" outcomes for anyone. Its simply an exercise to answer the challenge of what "could" of happened. 

[jvan1973]

No no, Not saying that at all. I am saying the refs were lazy. Balls come in, and the proper tests are not done. Of course, to cover their butt, they told the league the tests were done and everything was ok. In no way am I saying the refs tampered (not even sure where that came from!)

They are checked before every game. They had already been accused of having under inflated balls in November. The balls were checked

[Susie Q]

Well that explains everything you must have been the one that prepped Brady for the news conference. 

 Thanks for the like am but I think you thought I was paying you a compliment and that was not the case .

[da_pats_troll]

They are checked before every game. They had already been accused of having under inflated balls in November. The balls were checked

 

Thats the whole premise of the scenario. The refs messed up and did not do the proper checks. I make no claim to the probability of it being the reason, only the possibility. Neither of us know what checks were done inside that room, so neither of us can state as fact that the balls were checked or not checked. 

 

we can speculate and form our own opinions of course, but at this time, its still a possibility? 

[NewColtsFan]

You may be right. We'll see. Goodell is going to have a time tough time telling Kraft he is doing anything more than a fine without actual proof of the tampering in terms of a chain of command and the person who did it. And as much as the other owners want to see the Pats fry NONE of them want to see a punishment for suspicion without verification because that is a very dangerous precedent which Goodell learned pretty well in the Rice case assuming you believe he never saw the second video.

 

I don't know why you keep saying this?    This isn't the first time.

 

There's a dead body found in your home.    And you're residents are the only ones with motive to kill.

 

The Patriots football's were found seriously below the minimum allowed pressure.    The Pats (and especially Brady) are the only ones with interest in doing this.    And they're the only ones with access to making it happen.     The fact that the NFL may never find out exactly who did it doesn't mean much.  

 

It.      Was.      Done.

 

I think the reason Brady said was he said at his presser is that he didn't want to risk being suspended for the Super Bowl.

 

I think if the NFL had privately told Brady he'd be allowed to play but fined 100k or 250k he might have admitted to being a part of it.     But absent that,  without any reassurance from the NFL, I think Brady is taking a stance that you can't punish me if you can't prove it's me.

 

OK.....

 

But I think the NFL will hammer the Pats somewhere down the road.    I'd expect a fine and a loss of draft pick(s)....    You can't reward the Pats for not confessing or the NFL not being able to find the exact guilty party.   Because if you do,  you're incentivizing cheating.

 

And Kraft will, of course,  apologize....   He's not going to complain,  at least not publicly.

[bababooey]

I have been thinking about this and I think the NFL squashes it on media day. I think they tell the media that the investigation is still going on and players and coaches of both teams have been instructed not to answer any questions. That is what the Pats did with the Aaron Hernandez case and all questions ceased during the 2013 season.

If you think the NFL "squashes" this on media day you are DELUSIONAL. Every news outlet not just the ones afraid of getting on BBs bad side will be there to rip them to shreds all week. It will be a CIRCUS. Last Thursday was the highway at 4 am, this week will be the highway at rush hour.

[The Old Crow]

If Goddell, Kraft's boy, doesn't come down hard on this organization with a culture of dirty tricks, I think the outcry will be so bad, it will be the final nail in Goddell's coffin. After Ray Rice, he has to come down hard on the Patriots.