The same old Colts

[Defjamz26]

Hard to disagree with.  Thank god for Peyton.  Thank god for Luck. 

 

It's the same thought you had for 15 years with Manning.  If they build any sort of reasonably balanced team around Luck, he will win multiple championships.  What is so frustrating is you have had the hardest pieces to acquire - freakishly talented QBs and pass rushers, all-time greats at WR, yet you can't build any sort of reasonably balanced teams around them.  Just by chance, once in 20 years you would think you would hit on the right formula. 

 

I agree with all of this. That Luck may follow along the same path as Manning. Manning who was robbed of a chance to win at least 2 Superbowls because the management never bothered to put a decent team around him. They surrounded him with "average" or mediocre players at almost every position except WR, TE and DE.

 

Don't get me wrong, Peyton is one of the biggest post season chokers in NFL history, and the destruction against Seattle proved that to be true. But, if he had a half way decent team around him, he'd have at least won 2 in Indy. I haven't thrown in the towel at all on this team, but Its infuriating as a fan to watch a team struggle with the same issues. Kinda makes you understand how Browns fans feel with QB's.

[Shive]

That's exactly what I mean. He had a lot better players to go after when shelling out the kind of money he did.

One thing you have to keep in mind in free agency is that the asking price for a player isn't necessarily the same for all teams. For a team that is only a few years past a disastrous season and a major overhaul, we'll typically have to pay more than your NE's and Denvers that are consistent powerhouses. As we keep having the seasons we're having, we'll be able to get better talent with more reasonable contracts.

[Shane Bond]

No problem ignoring ignorance. Apparently you think everyone is asking you to complain.

Carry on...

wut

[SteelCityColt]

Did you see the results?. Thats all i care not player names.

This doesn't look like a discussion to me...

[SteelCityColt]

Yeah TY can throw and catch himself. We saw how this team looked with Painter. Same will be if there is no Luck.

Acting like this team is way better is ignorance.

Way better then what? I never suggested TY was a man one team, I merely pointed out there more to this team than just Luck.

Ignoring factual evidence because it that debases a statement you'd made...that would the definition of ignorance.This coming from the guy boasting the Colts would easily beat down on the Pats, I wonder if that is really why you're so angry because you've lost you chest beating opportunity twice this season what with the Broncos also losing to the Pats. This team doesn't magically become awful because of losing one game and seeing as over the larger sample they're a winning team and I thought you'd be happy seeing as you say it's about the results

Now, would you like some juice?

[RandomFan]

The way I see it, the "culture" of this team is one of trying to keep from losing rather than going all out to win. When you play a team of the calibre of the Pats, you do not kick a field goal on a 4th and 2 (or less) when you're driving and trying to match touchdown for touchdown. Yes, you get an easy 3 points, but you're falling behind in the process. And why not try being creative on first down when the other team least expects it? Being conservative and "soft" in the face of a physically and mentally determined team is not going to get you anywhere. You have to play smash mouth with a smash mouth team, or at least do your best to try to do that.

 

Not sure I agree with this. The only thing more demoralizing than driving down the field and settling for a FG, is driving down the field just to get no points from it. That is a huge momentum swing if you go for it and don't get the first down. There is a time and place to do that tho, I just don't think the first quarter down 7 is the time.

[ColtsBlueFL]

2006?

 

I was thinking 2005.  But we were dealt some freakish outside conditions I felt helped derailed that SB train.  So football karma turned our 2006 regular season run D from rice paper into a cinder block wall in the playoffs. Make up call?  ;-)

[pgt_rob]

how many elite teams have first and second year players starting on the o-line, unless they were a super first rounder? grigs should know better

 

I can't name an ELITE team that uses undrafted free agents on their line.

[Smonroe]

I can't name an ELITE team that uses undrafted free agents on their line.

 

Just to be clear, who do you consider the elite teams?  Pats, Broncos, Cards, and ...?

[pgt_rob]

Just to be clear, who do you consider the elite teams?  Pats, Broncos, Cards, and ...?

 

Sure that works. I was just responding to who quoted me above about "elite" teams. I know the Pats have a rookie center. Broncos & Cards don't have any rookies on their line. Colts have an UFA as Center, rookie left guard, and a 2nd year right guard. Experience isn't totally there yet.

[King Colt]

The Colts failure to get to the SB and win it don't bother me as much as it does others I guess because in baseball I'm a Cubs fan.  

[tfunky14]

You know what....I enjoyed the Colts run with Peyton and 10 plus years making the playoffs and a opportunity for a Super Bowl appearance.

 

I'll will also enjoyed a Colts run with Andrew and 10 plus years making the playoffs and a opportunity for a Super Bowl appearance.

 

 

some of you guys are spoiled...

[amfootball]

One really bad game and kaput on the last three years? The Colts are further along right now then anyone predicted back before the 2012 season ...

[theanarchist]

No Offensive Line - We drafted O-Linemen the past 3 years and signed a few... We've worked very hard to revamp the line but they fall flat against good teams. Chalking it up to INEXPERIENCE/NOOBIES & haven't been in the league very long.

Defense is getting exposed. - Made some big defensive signings as well but seems as if they don't know how to do their jobs against good teams. Maybe we should have made the moves Denver & New England did defensively?

No turnovers. - It's what happens when we throw the ball 40-50 times, there's an INT in there somewhere.

No running game. - See the first line above^. We have a couple great backs, but we can't seem to use them correctly because of O-Line are a bunch of inexperienced noobies.

 

Where do we go from here? I have no clue.

" two great backs"? Sorry, Bradshaw is our only great back. Richardson still hasn't shown he can be a great back. There's no way you can argue otherwise.

 

As for your depiction of the offensive line. To a certain extent we can probably put some of the blame on inexperience. But what about the coaching staff? Harrison has been starting now for a stretch and so far from what I've seen he still has trouble with the snap count and reliability on snaps. Im still curious why AQ got benched when he was playing well. As for the rest of the O line the 2 tackles have a ton of experience. So, the entire line is not inexperienced and I think the coaching staff has to bear some of the blame on the poor play.

[SteelCityColt]

" two great backs"? Sorry, Bradshaw is our only great back. Richardson still hasn't shown he can be a great back. There's no way you can argue otherwise.

 

As for your depiction of the offensive line. To a certain extent we can probably put some of the blame on inexperience. But what about the coaching staff? Harrison has been starting now for a stretch and so far from what I've seen he still has trouble with the snap count and reliability on snaps. Im still curious why AQ got benched when he was playing well. As for the rest of the O line the 2 tackles have a ton of experience. So, the entire line is not inexperienced and I think the coaching staff has to bear some of the blame on the poor play.

 

Howard Mudd! My Kingdom for Howard Mudd! 

[sweetsurrender]

This Colts team is reminding me of the same team under Peyton.

 

No Offensive Line

Defense is getting exposed.

No turnovers.

No running game.

 

Got rid off Peyton and utilizing all that money to build the monster?. 

Huh? This team is nothing like the Peyton teams.

[pgt_rob]

" two great backs"? Sorry, Bradshaw is our only great back. Richardson still hasn't shown he can be a great back. There's no way you can argue otherwise.

 

As for your depiction of the offensive line. To a certain extent we can probably put some of the blame on inexperience. But what about the coaching staff? Harrison has been starting now for a stretch and so far from what I've seen he still has trouble with the snap count and reliability on snaps. Im still curious why AQ got benched when he was playing well. As for the rest of the O line the 2 tackles have a ton of experience. So, the entire line is not inexperienced and I think the coaching staff has to bear some of the blame on the poor play.

 

He hasn't shown much ability to run through our line but he is still a great running back. We just haven't made holes for him to run through. In 2012, he ran for 950 yards and 11 touchdowns and almost 400 yards receiving and a touchdown. He has the potential, but our O-Line coaching is horrible.

[Coltscrazy]

How about a thread titled "The Same Old Fans"?

 

I think there are two types of threads, discussions and complaints. 

 

I'm not sure to whom the complaints are being addressed though.

 

 

I disagree  completely.  I don't see this so much as complaining and whining as much as just a kind of eerie observation.  Before anyone posted, I was thinking the exact same thing.  Tons of fans have to recognize how strange this circumstance is.    We have different coaches, schemes, and a new general manager, and things somewhow became exactly the same as the Polian years.   Top tier QB, average at best line, can't stop the run.  What are the odds of everything changing and becoming the exact same team?  I think this is worth noting and not just whining.  We have talented players, I love this team, but we have come back to familiar territory.

[pgt_rob]

One really bad game and kaput on the last three years? The Colts are further along right now then anyone predicted back before the 2012 season ...

 

2 bad games (Steelers). But I agree. It's tough losing and then looking on the message board, people flip a lid. Then the following week we look like a team of 22 Pro-Bowlers and the message board is dead... I am grateful that we moved from Peyton Manning to Andrew Luck. It doesn't happen very often to be that lucky to have had both of those QB's.

[Coltscrazy]

One really bad game and kaput on the last three years? The Colts are further along right now then anyone predicted back before the 2012 season ...

  I don't think that is it.  We were not even competitive, and it is not the first time this year.  We've been blown out twice in the last three games, and our losses to the Eagles and Brochos could have been much worse.  I've been a fan since the Tobin years, and I am glad we can dominate sorry teams like those in our division, but I don't think it is too much to ask that we can at least compete with good teams.  Also, the inability to stop the run hits a lot of Colts fans hard because it has been such a longstanding problem.  After all those losses with Tobin, I appreciate every victory, and we have been blessed to have top tier Qbs, but it is kind of a tease.  With the QB talent we have, it would seem we could build stronger teams around them.  I have definatley seen progress the last three years, and we have added many talented players to our defense.  I also love that our D seems more agressive.  I still believe the "Monster" can get built.  It is just disheartening to see that progress yeild a bashing by opposing ground games.

[Shane Bond]

This doesn't look like a discussion to me...

Sounds good.

[Shane Bond]

Way better then what? I never suggested TY was a man one team, I merely pointed out there more to this team than just Luck.

Ignoring factual evidence because it that debases a statement you'd made...that would the definition of ignorance.This coming from the guy boasting the Colts would easily beat down on the Pats, I wonder if that is really why you're so angry because you've lost you chest beating opportunity twice this season what with the Broncos also losing to the Pats. This team doesn't magically become awful because of losing one game and seeing as over the larger sample they're a winning team and I thought you'd be happy seeing as you say it's about the results

Now, would you like some juice?

Yeah i like pineapple.

 

My post is not based on 1 or 2 results. Not sure why you have to drag Broncos into this. Shall we stick to your famous line to the every other thread you make " stick to the topic "?.

 

Let me try to explain it to you. We played the Pats last year in the playoffs and Blount killed us with the running game and we let a rookie do that. I mean what have we learned?. What did we do to fix it?. This is the 3rd year with the "build the monster". Pagano himself admitted we got beat at the line of scrimmage.

 

There are many posters in this thread who agree to it. I mean where do you see this team as an improvement from 3 years ago?.

[SteelCityColt]

Yeah i like pineapple.

 

My post is not based on 1 or 2 results. Not sure why you have to drag Broncos into this. Shall we stick to your famous line to the every other thread you make " stick to the topic "?.

 

Let me try to explain it to you. We played the Pats last year in the playoffs and Blount killed us with the running game and we let a rookie do that. I mean what have we learned?. What did we do to fix it?. This is the 3rd year with the "build the monster". Pagano himself admitted we got beat at the line of scrimmage.

 

There are many posters in this thread who agree to it. I mean where do you see this team as an improvement from 3 years ago?.

 

You say it's not based on 1 or 2 results than proceed to hang your hat on two games against the Pats, I'm looking at a team that since going 2-14 has gone 28-14 and made the post season, all in the middle of what most people agreed was going to be a rebuild. I'm pretty proud of my team for that. Looking at the 2 games you mentioned the Blount game was skewed by his long 76 yarder (shudder). With it they put 5.0 YPCA on us... without it it drops to 3.6 so they didn't exactly run riot on us all night. We put ourself in a bad position early with the picks, but even then to the teams credit we almost dug our way back at one stage. The last game... I agreed it's inexcusable to keep letting them pound it with 6 O-linemen and not have an answer but even then up even the 4th we were in shouting distance of them. 

 

So where do I see the improvement.. I would say in the style of some posters "just watch the games", but I wouldn't be so off hand to a poster of your standing on here. I could wax lyrical about the development of young players such as Luck, Hilton (who's gone from unknown to a top receiver), Davis who we took as a bust and have made into a top CB, Allen who looks like one of the best TEs in the league when healthy. 

 

However let's stick the the empirical to take opinion and bias out of this... 

 

Offense

 

2012

Yds/G 362.4 (10th) 

Pts/G 22.3 (18th)

Total TDs (Rush/Rec) 34

Passing Yds/Game 258.0 (Avrg 7.0) (7th) 

Rushing Yds/Game 104 (22nd) 

Sacks Allowed 41 

Ints 18

 

2014 

Yds/G 438.3 (1st)

Pts/G 31 (3rd)

Total TDs (Rush/Rec) (Projected) 54

Passing Yds/Game  334.0 (Avrg 7.8) (1st) 

Rushing Yds/Game 104.3 (17th) 

Sack Allowed (Projected) 24

Ints (Projected) 16

 

Defense

 

2012 

Yds/G 374.2 (26th)

Pts/G 24.2 (21st) 

Pass Yds/G 258.0 (26th) 

Rush Yds/G 137.5 (29th)

Sacks 32 

Ints 12

FFumbles 6

 

2014

Yds/G 375.8 (24th)

Pts/G 25.3 (22nd) 

Pass Yds/G 262.9 (27th) 

Rush Yds/G 112.9 (17th)

Sacks (Projected) 38 

Ints (Projected) 13

FFumbles (Projected) 19 

 

In terms of DVOA we've gone from 25th in team efficiency to 14th, 18th to 13th on O and 31st to 26th on D. This is without going into all the special teams who I don't think anyone can argue hasn't improved? We've got the best kicking duo in the league in my opinion and deity of choice forbid... coverage!

 

Can you truly say, hand on heart with complete sincerity you feel there has been NO improvement from 2012 to 2014?

 

Looking the above some of the biggest gripes people have just aren't true. We've improved against the run when you look at it it's the yards through the air that's stagnated. I imagine there's no coincidence that it comes with losing Matthis, despite the improvement in the secondary. We're on course for 27 takeaways this season up from 17 in 2012 so we've improved there. The O-line, though not perfect is doing a better job on pass protection so far though is still weak in the run game. As a whole the is light years ahead statistically compared to 2012. 

 

I'd add that the 2014 numbers are skewed somewhat in that we've played the hardest part of our schedule, to the games against say the Jaguars and Titans that are to come haven't been weighted in as yet so these could well be conservative. Mostly the yds/g on D I feel have been affected from playing the Broncos/Pats/Eagles/Steelers whereas in 2012 really on the Pats and Packers were explosive offenses IMO.

 

Is this team perfect? No. Are we Elite? No. But are we making progress? Yes. People might be a little more appreciative of the cap management of Grigson when the 2012 contracts roll round and we don't find ourselves in cap hell like some teams and can still afford to put pieces around Andrew. 

 

So again Sir, I say to you, do you still stand by your original position that this team has not improved? 

[mintor]

No Offensive Line - We drafted O-Linemen the past 3 years and signed a few... We've worked very hard to revamp the line but they fall flat against good teams. Chalking it up to INEXPERIENCE/NOOBIES & haven't been in the league very long.

Defense is getting exposed. - Made some big defensive signings as well but seems as if they don't know how to do their jobs against good teams. Maybe we should have made the moves Denver & New England did defensively?

No turnovers. - It's what happens when we throw the ball 40-50 times, there's an INT in there somewhere.

No running game. - See the first line above^. We have a couple great backs, but we can't seem to use them correctly because of O-Line are a bunch of inexperienced noobies.

 

Where do we go from here? I have no clue.

 

 

were have draft top draft picks for offense ?  lowest round 2 most draft 4 round we have draft 1 round o,line  yet under new gm/hc.   most other top teams draft 1 ,2 round  offensive linemen.

[Shane Bond]

You say it's not based on 1 or 2 results than proceed to hang your hat on two games against the Pats, I'm looking at a team that since going 2-14 has gone 28-14 and made the post season, all in the middle of what most people agreed was going to be a rebuild. I'm pretty proud of my team for that. Looking at the 2 games you mentioned the Blount game was skewed by his long 76 yarder (shudder). With it they put 5.0 YPCA on us... without it it drops to 3.6 so they didn't exactly run riot on us all night. We put ourself in a bad position early with the picks, but even then to the teams credit we almost dug our way back at one stage. The last game... I agreed it's inexcusable to keep letting them pound it with 6 O-linemen and not have an answer but even then up even the 4th we were in shouting distance of them. 

 

So where do I see the improvement.. I would say in the style of some posters "just watch the games", but I wouldn't be so off hand to a poster of your standing on here. I could wax lyrical about the development of young players such as Luck, Hilton (who's gone from unknown to a top receiver), Davis who we took as a bust and have made into a top CB, Allen who looks like one of the best TEs in the league when healthy. 

 

However let's stick the the empirical to take opinion and bias out of this... 

 

Offense

 

2012

Yds/G 362.4 (10th) 

Pts/G 22.3 (18th)

Total TDs (Rush/Rec) 34

Passing Yds/Game 258.0 (Avrg 7.0) (7th) 

Rushing Yds/Game 104 (22nd) 

Sacks Allowed 41 

Ints 18

 

2014 

Yds/G 438.3 (1st)

Pts/G 31 (3rd)

Total TDs (Rush/Rec) (Projected) 54

Passing Yds/Game  334.0 (Avrg 7.8) (1st) 

Rushing Yds/Game 104.3 (17th) 

Sack Allowed (Projected) 24

Ints (Projected) 16

 

Defense

 

2012 

Yds/G 374.2 (26th)

Pts/G 24.2 (21st) 

Pass Yds/G 258.0 (26th) 

Rush Yds/G 137.5 (29th)

Sacks 32 

Ints 12

FFumbles 6

 

2014

Yds/G 375.8 (24th)

Pts/G 25.3 (22nd) 

Pass Yds/G 262.9 (27th) 

Rush Yds/G 112.9 (17th)

Sacks (Projected) 38 

Ints (Projected) 13

FFumbles (Projected) 19 

 

In terms of DVOA we've gone from 25th in team efficiency to 14th, 18th to 13th on O and 31st to 26th on D. This is without going into all the special teams who I don't think anyone can argue hasn't improved? We've got the best kicking duo in the league in my opinion and deity of choice forbid... coverage!

 

Can you truly say, hand on heart with complete sincerity you feel there has been NO improvement from 2012 to 2014?

 

Looking the above some of the biggest gripes people have just aren't true. We've improved against the run when you look at it it's the yards through the air that's stagnated. I imagine there's no coincidence that it comes with losing Matthis, despite the improvement in the secondary. We're on course for 27 takeaways this season up from 17 in 2012 so we've improved there. The O-line, though not perfect is doing a better job on pass protection so far though is still weak in the run game. As a whole the is light years ahead statistically compared to 2012. 

 

I'd add that the 2014 numbers are skewed somewhat in that we've played the hardest part of our schedule, to the games against say the Jaguars and Titans that are to come haven't been weighted in as yet so these could well be conservative. Mostly the yds/g on D I feel have been affected from playing the Broncos/Pats/Eagles/Steelers whereas in 2012 really on the Pats and Packers were explosive offenses IMO.

 

Is this team perfect? No. Are we Elite? No. But are we making progress? Yes. People might be a little more appreciative of the cap management of Grigson when the 2012 contracts roll round and we don't find ourselves in cap hell like some teams and can still afford to put pieces around Andrew. 

 

So again Sir, I say to you, do you still stand by your original position that this team has not improved? 

 

I will keep it simple.

 

2012 -  11-5

2013 - 11-5

2014 - 6-4

 

 

And i am not just hanging my hat on the Pats, it was just an example.

 

And i truly say, there is no improvement for all the "cleaning the house".

[SteelCityColt]

I will keep it simple.

2012 - 11-5

2013 - 11-5

2014 - 6-4

And i am not just hanging my hat on the Pats, it was just an example.

And i truly say, there is no improvement for all the "cleaning the house".

So you're saying you ignore all metrics that don't support your argument? I guess because they show the team gas performed better they are not valid.

All you've done is quote me our season records.... With 2014 still having a chance to go 12-4. Not exactly in depth analysis really.

[Shane Bond]

So you're saying you ignore all metrics that don't support your argument? I guess because they show the team gas performed better they are not valid.

All you've done is quote me our season records.... With 2014 still having a chance to go 12-4. Not exactly in depth analysis really.

[Shane Bond]

So you're saying you ignore all metrics that don't support your argument? I guess because they show the team gas performed better they are not valid.

All you've done is quote me our season records.... With 2014 still having a chance to go 12-4. Not exactly in depth analysis really.

They could but the way our defense played against Steelers and Pats, there is a huge hole. This is not the monster we thought.

[SteelCityColt]

They could but the way our defense played against Steelers and Pats, there is a huge hole. This is not the monster we thought.

Very true, they were not great performances, but balance that with the Bengals and Ravens games.

Besides your statement was this team had not improved at all since 2012' that's what we're debating, so do you still say the team is at the exact same level of the 2012 team?

[Shane Bond]

Very true, they were not great performances, but balance that with the Bengals and Ravens games.

Besides your statement was this team had not improved at all since 2012' that's what we're debating, so do you still say the team is at the exact same level of the 2012 team?

Yes my friend .

 

I stand by it. I dont see an improvement. Will be very hard to beat a good team in the playoffs with the run defense and the OL we have today.

[SteelCityColt]

Yes my friend .

I stand by it. I dont see an improvement. Will be very hard to beat a good team in the playoffs with the run defense and the OL we have today.

Shane... Did you even read the stats? Do you not see the improvement?

Specifically we have actually improved in run D.

[Shane Bond]

Shane... Did you even read the stats? Do you not see the improvement?

Specifically we have actually improved in run D.

Really the stats that matters is the win column and how we performed against playoff contenders. We lost to Denver, Pats and Steelers from AFC. They all beat us quite convincingly.

 

First few weeks this year looked promising and it just regressed.

[Smonroe]

Yes my friend .

 

I stand by it. I dont see an improvement. Will be very hard to beat a good team in the playoffs with the run defense and the OL we have today.

 

You have a right to your opinion.  In my opinion, I think we have improved vastly as far as talent since 2012 on both sides of the ball.

 

But I don't think the coaching is there to take advantage of it.  In other words, Grigs has done his job.  But the position coaches and coordinators are lacking (again, my opinion only).

[Shane Bond]

You have a right to your opinion.  In my opinion, I think we have improved vastly as far as talent since 2012 on both sides of the ball.

 

But I don't think the coaching is there to take advantage of it.  In other words, Grigs has done his job.  But the position coaches and coordinators are lacking (again, my opinion only).

I am with you on the coaching. Arians would have done a better job with this team?

[SteelCityColt]

Really the stats that matters is the win column and how we performed against playoff contenders. We lost to Denver, Pats and Steelers from AFC. They all beat us quite convincingly.

First few weeks this year looked promising and it just regressed.

What you're saying is the only thing that matters is things that prove you're right, Even looking just at the wins we've git an as good record against a tougher schedule, Stop being a politician and dancing around the facts, if you'd said I'm disappointed in this team for not being better that's fine, but to say there is no,zilch,de nada improvement is farcical. This is why people become frustrated with you, you have your view and pretty much only ever substantiate it with "because I say so".

To make it clear this is me as a poster speaking, I've put the MOD hat down.

[Shane Bond]

What you're saying is the only thing that matters is things that prove you're right, Even looking just at the wins we've git an as good record against a tougher schedule, Stop being a politician and dancing around the facts, if you'd said I'm disappointed in this team for not being better that's fine, but to say there is no,zilch,de nada improvement is farcical. This is why people become frustrated with you, you have your view and pretty much only ever substantiate it with "because I say so".

To make it clear this is me as a poster speaking, I've put the MOD hat down.

Wow easy there.

 

You dont have anything severely in your favor to support your stance. It is my opinion and results support it. If you want to get all worked up and aggressive, its upto you.

[Smonroe]

I am with you on the coaching. Arians would have done a better job with this team?

 

I'm thinking it's more on the position coaches and the schemes.  Which ultimately falls on to the head coaching responsibilities.  I like Chuck, I think the players love him.  It's nothing like the Mora situation.  But some hard decisions are going to have to be made if we're going to improve.

 

Personally, I think the talent is adequate (not great) with about five or six exceptions.  I don't know if there's enough there to win it all.  But I don't think we're getting as much out of what we have as possible.

 

We've been steam rolled with the run in one game and couldn't stop the pass in another.  And it didn't seem like we made adjustments in either.