Taking foot off the pedal

[HtownColt]

Up 40-10 in the 4th quarter, 4 possession game with 13min left. Yea that game was out of reach

[rittdk01]

U put the backups in and run the ball to run the clock down.  Up by 30 there was no way the Giants were ever coming back.  To try and play to get to 50 or something is just rubbing it in.  

[Lef]

Bellchek and Brady would have finished the game full throttle; no let up. They would have buried their opponent, leaving nothing to chance. Different philosophy. I like the patriots philosophy in that situation.

[lollygagger8]

[Yoshinator]

um, the game never got out of hand.  the closest the giants got was within 16 points and that was in garbage time.

 

 

sure, if your purpose is to make a very uninformed decision

 

 

 

and you're acting like, because it was actually possible that the giants could have come back, it is likely that they would have.  there's a huge difference between possible and probable.  It's possible that I could become president of the United States because I'm over 35, am a natural born citizen of the US and have lived here for 14 years.  However, it's highly improbable that would ever happen.  similarly, just because Manning and Luck led the Colts to 2 highly improbable late game comebacks doesn't mean it's probable that the giants would have given the way they were playing offensively and the way the colts starting defense was playing.

 

 

LOL...you know absolutely nothing about me and couldn't be further from the truth.  I was the one that prevented my best friend from changing the channel during that MNF game between the bucs and colts.  I've never turned off a colts game early, even during the 2011 season.

 

 

basically yes.  by the way, you said it "happens more than you think"....again, only 2 examples have been given.  it does not happen more than I think.  I think it happens very rarely and in fact it does happen very rarely.  otherwise you'd be able to knock out 5-10 examples off the top of your head.

 

 

I'm not contradicting myself.  I simply understand the difference between possibility and probability.  Oh, and plenty of people (the important ones as far as I'm concerned) take me seriously. ;)

 

 

you should have never started with it

 

 

this must be an example of the expert knowledge you have of me now after you determined that I was OK with Pagano "allowing the game get out of hand" <<-- (your words, certainly not mine).  well done 

Going to explain this one last time since you still don't get it. As long as there has been one comeback that was equal to the possibility of this one or harder, then this game wasn't out of reach. The colts coming back against the Chiefs and Bucs were bigger comebacks than this would of been, so since they came back, the Giants certainly could of comeback. As long as there was one comeback in NFL history equal to this game, than it was possible and I can say that as a fact because it happened before. Lets look at the odds realistically. Maybe a 1 in 5 chance realistically that the Giants score each of their td's. Then a 1 in 2 chance they hit each of their 2 point conversions, then if it goes to OT, a 1 in 2 chance they win. So 5*5*2*2*2= a 1 in 200 chance they win or .5%. Sure it's unlikely, but I don't want to be on the sucker end of that loss, debate over.

[Jason_]

Going to explain this one last time since you still don't get it. As long as there has been one comeback that was equal to the possibility of this one or harder, then this game wasn't out of reach. The colts coming back against the Chiefs and Bucs were bigger comebacks than this would of been, so since they came back, the Giants certainly could of comeback. As long as there was one comeback in NFL history equal to this game, than it was possible and I can say that as a fact because it happened before. Lets look at the odds realistically. Maybe a 1 in 5 chance realistically that the Giants score each of their td's. Then a 1 in 2 chance they hit each of their 2 point conversions, then if it goes to OT, a 1 in 2 chance they win. So 5*5*2*2*2= a 1 in 200 chance they win or .5%. Sure it's unlikely, but I don't want to be on the sucker end of that loss, .debate over

 

the odds you've proposed are ridiculously skewed in favor of your attempt at an argument.  and you clearly overlooked my point about possibility vs. probability.  I agree that the debate is over, but not for the reason you think it is ;)

[Superman]

I am not sure who the one is that does not watch much football.

 

They were up 30 in the 4th quarter.  They put subs in on D at that point and the offense ran the ball to burn clock.  That is how NFL teams try to end the game.  When they got within those two scores, the # 1's went back in.  If you want to upset about something be mad at the play of those 2nd stringers.  But the coaching component was exactly what they should have done and what virtually every team would do in that situation.

 

Exactly.

 

The only problem with the end of the game last night was the poor play of our depth players, particularly in coverage (we still had our regular rotation out there on the line). The decision to pull some frontline guys when you're up 30 points in the 4th quarter is just fine. A couple of stops would have made this a non-issue. But Gordy and Purifoy didn't give a high effort performance, and got toasted.

[jvan1973]

Bellchek and Brady would have finished the game full throttle; no let up. They would have buried their opponent, leaving nothing to chance. Different philosophy. I like the patriots philosophy in that situation.

They lost gronk on a PAT attempt in a blowout a couple years ago. Imagine the whining that would be going on today if something like that happened last night

[jvan1973]

Going to explain this one last time since you still don't get it. As long as there has been one comeback that was equal to the possibility of this one or harder, then this game wasn't out of reach. The colts coming back against the Chiefs and Bucs were bigger comebacks than this would of been, so since they came back, the Giants certainly could of comeback. As long as there was one comeback in NFL history equal to this game, than it was possible and I can say that as a fact because it happened before. Lets look at the odds realistically. Maybe a 1 in 5 chance realistically that the Giants score each of their td's. Then a 1 in 2 chance they hit each of their 2 point conversions, then if it goes to OT, a 1 in 2 chance they win. So 5*5*2*2*2= a 1 in 200 chance they win or .5%. Sure it's unlikely, but I don't want to be on the sucker end of that loss, debate over.

When did the colts, or any team comeback to win after trailing by thirty in the 4th quarter?

[HtownColt]

Bellchek and Brady would have finished the game full throttle; no let up. They would have buried their opponent, leaving nothing to chance. Different philosophy. I like the patriots philosophy in that situation.

What are you talking about? The Patriots did the same thing against the Bears this year

[Jason_]

Exactly.

 

The only problem with the end of the game last night was the poor play of our depth players, particularly in coverage (we still had our regular rotation out there on the line). The decision to pull some frontline guys when you're up 30 points in the 4th quarter is just fine. A couple of stops would have made this a non-issue. But Gordy and Purifoy didn't give a high effort performance, and got toasted.

 

a very minor nitpick but I'd reword the bolded and instead say that Gordy and Purifoy didn't give a highly productive performance.  I think the effort was there, they're simply not as good as  Davis and Toler at this time.

[Yoshinator]

the odds you've proposed are ridiculously skewed in favor of your attempt at an argument.  and you clearly overlooked my point about possibility vs. probability.  I agree that the debate is over, but not for the reason you think it is ;)

the three 50/50 possibilities are exact, the tds odds may not be exact, but I think a 20% td possibility is fair, especially in 4 down territory. What would you give it?

[Dustin]

Going to explain this one last time since you still don't get it. As long as there has been one comeback that was equal to the possibility of this one or harder, then this game wasn't out of reach. The colts coming back against the Chiefs and Bucs were bigger comebacks than this would of been, so since they came back, the Giants certainly could of comeback. As long as there was one comeback in NFL history equal to this game, than it was possible and I can say that as a fact because it happened before. Lets look at the odds realistically. Maybe a 1 in 5 chance realistically that the Giants score each of their td's. Then a 1 in 2 chance they hit each of their 2 point conversions, then if it goes to OT, a 1 in 2 chance they win. So 5*5*2*2*2= a 1 in 200 chance they win or .5%. Sure it's unlikely, but I don't want to be on the sucker end of that loss, debate over.

You're going to catch a lot of flack in this thread. But people don't realize how close this was to a one scorw game. ODB beat Toler on a go route and Brown *barely* tipped it away at the last second. He would have taken it to the house.

[jvan1973]

You're going to catch a lot of flack in this thread. But people don't realize how close this was to a one scorw game. ODB beat Toler on a go route and Brown *barely* tipped it away at the last second. He would have taken it to the house.

they would have still had to get a two point conversion to make it a one point game

[Yoshinator]

When did the colts, or any team comeback to win after trailing by thirty in the 4th quarter?

there was the Oilers game by more than 30 if you want to be exact, however I'm talking about the 16 point lead with 3 1/2 minutes left. Once the Giants scored two tds, the odds increased dramatically of a possible comeback and it's a whole new game. I can guarantee there have been lots of situations where a team has at least tied the game up with 3/12 minutes remaining and two scores down. This isn't unusual.

[Yoshinator]

they would have still had to get a two point conversion to make it a one point game

exactly, but it's basically a 50/50 shot on one play. With 3 timeouts left, the game would of been in the air with a score. Possible onside kick and at least a minute left. Like I said it's unlikely, but it's a mistake putting the backups in that quick.

[Superman]

a very minor nitpick but I'd reword the bolded and instead say that Gordy and Purifoy didn't give a highly productive performance.  I think the effort was there, they're simply not as good as  Davis and Toler at this time.

 

I didn't think the effort was there, personally. I thought they both made underwhelming attempts at tackles after catches, didn't come out of their breaks with any decisiveness when catches were made in front of them, etc. Shutdown corners often talk about how you have to stay focused, whether you're getting thrown at or not. You can't take plays off, you can't let up in your intensity. I wasn't impressed with the way those two played late in the game.

[jvan1973]

there was the Oilers game by more than 30 if you want to be exact, however I'm talking about the 16 point lead with 3 1/2 minutes left. Once the Giants scored two tds, the odds increased dramatically of a possible comeback and it's a whole new game. I can guarantee there have been lots of situations where a team has at least tied the game up with 3/12 minutes remaining and two scores down. This isn't unusual.

the bills didn't trail by 30 in the forth quarter in that game.

[Superman]

You're going to catch a lot of flack in this thread. But people don't realize how close this was to a one scorw game. ODB beat Toler on a go route and Brown *barely* tipped it away at the last second. He would have taken it to the house.

 

I'll make a concession: I don't think Pagano will pull the starting corners that early in the game again this year. But that's based off of the lackluster performance of his backups. I still don't think the decision was faulty, but those guys proved that they aren't ready to bring the game home for us.

 

Edit: Also, that wasn't ODB, that was Kevin Ogletree. And Toler was in good position.

[Yoshinator]

the bills didn't trail by 30 in the forth quarter in that game.

I might be off then. But I know they came back from 32 to win or something. Really doesn't matter as it came down to scoring twice with two 2 point conversions with 3 1/2 minutes to force overtime. I just hope Pagano learns to not put the backups in until time is almost over. Even putting the starters back in didn't guarantee victory. Starters are a lot better than backups, but they can be scored on, even quickly, just like the backups. Gotta go with the odds and keep the starters in, doesn't mean you have to run up the score, but just to keep them from scoring.

[Yoshinator]

I'll make a concession: I don't think Pagano will pull the starting corners that early in the game again this year. But that's based off of the lackluster performance of his backups. I still don't think the decision was faulty, but those guys proved that they aren't ready to bring the game home for us.

Agree with this 100%. The good thing about the garbage time is Kerr and Newsome did a good job and showed they should start either immediately or very soon. It was risky IMO. I hope he learned not to do that again.

[Jason_]

I didn't think the effort was there, personally. I thought they both made underwhelming attempts at tackles after catches, didn't come out of their breaks with any decisiveness when catches were made in front of them, etc. Shutdown corners often talk about how you have to stay focused, whether you're getting thrown at or not. You can't take plays off, you can't let up in your intensity. I wasn't impressed with the way those two played late in the game.

 

hmm, I'll have to pay more attention to that when I rewatch the game.  I could very well stand corrected

[Jason_]

I might be off then. But I know they came back from 32 to win or something. Really doesn't matter as it came down to scoring twice with two 2 point conversions with 3 1/2 minutes to force overtime. I just hope Pagano learns to not put the backups in until time is almost over. Even putting the starters back in didn't guarantee victory. Starters are a lot better than backups, but they can be scored on, even quickly, just like the backups. Gotta go with the odds and keep the starters in, doesn't mean you have to run up the score, but just to keep them from scoring.

 

yes, you are off.  the bills were down by 32 points, but that was only 1:41 into the 3rd quarter.  They had almost an entire half of football to make up the 32 point deficit and they barely pulled it out.  

 

Like Superman said, the only thing Pagano needs to learn from this experience is that Gordy and Purifoy are still works in progress.

[HtownColt]

I might be off then. But I know they came back from 32 to win or something. Really doesn't matter as it came down to scoring twice with two 2 point conversions with 3 1/2 minutes to force overtime. I just hope Pagano learns to not put the backups in until time is almost over. Even putting the starters back in didn't guarantee victory. Starters are a lot better than backups, but they can be scored on, even quickly, just like the backups. Gotta go with the odds and keep the starters in, doesn't mean you have to run up the score, but just to keep them from scoring.

Oilers-bills score was 35-31 after the 3rd quarter

[Superman]

Agree with this 100%. The good thing about the garbage time is Kerr and Newsome did a good job and showed they should start either immediately or very soon. It was risky IMO. I hope he learned not to do that again.

 

Kerr and Newsome are regular rotation players. The only true reserves that were in the game were Gordy and Purifoy. Freeman and Jackson were still at ILB, Brown and Adams were still at safety, Redding was still playing line... 

 

You're acting like Pagano pulled all the starters and put a bunch of scrubs on the field. He didn't. Really, it was just two players, and even the regular players who were in the game weren't putting up a great effort on the Giants last TD drive. This wasn't a coaching issue. It was a player effort/execution issue.

[Yoshinator]

Kerr and Newsome are regular rotation players. The only true reserves that were in the game were Gordy and Purifoy. Freeman and Jackson were still at ILB, Brown and Adams were still at safety, Redding was still playing line... 

 

You're acting like Pagano pulled all the starters and put a bunch of scrubs on the field. He didn't. Really, it was just two players, and even the regular players who were in the game weren't putting up a great effort on the Giants last TD drive. This wasn't a coaching issue. It was a player effort/execution issue.

I'm pretty sure Studabaker started this game opposite Werner, but I might be wrong. I'm really confused why he'd just switch out those two players then if that's 100% accurate. Eli is obviously going to pass and you're just encouraging him to even more. Really weird thinking there.

[Yoshinator]

yes, you are off.  the bills were down by 32 points, but that was only 1:41 into the 3rd quarter.  They had almost an entire half of football to make up the 32 point deficit and they barely pulled it out.  

 

Like Superman said, the only thing Pagano needs to learn from this experience is that Gordy and Purifoy are still works in progress.

never saw this game live, so I wasn't 100% sure. Thanks for the lesson

[Superman]

I'm pretty sure Studabaker started this game opposite Werner, but I might be wrong. I'm really confused why he'd just switch out those two players then if that's 100% accurate. Eli is obviously going to pass and you're just encouraging him to even more. Really weird thinking there.

 

Studebaker did start. He played 39 snaps. Newsome played 46 snaps. Newsome is a regular rotation player, not a reserve who only came in late in the game. Same thing for Kerr.

 

I think the whole point was to give the young corners some time. It helps when one of your starters is out (like Davis last week, or Toler for most of last year). Everyone should have played better. I don't have a problem with the decision, but I doubt it happens again.

 

And I'm rewatching the 4th quarter right now. We only pulled the starting corners for one possession. The Giants scored their first 4th quarter TD against the starters, which made it 40-17 with about 9 minutes left. The next possession started with about 6 minutes left, and we put Gordy and Purifoy in, and gave up the TD. The next possession started with less than 3 minutes remaining, and Davis and Toler were right back in. 

 

I just want to make sure people understand that Pagano didn't shut the lights off and walk out of the building at the start of the 4th quarter. We had a three TD lead with six minutes left before he pulled anyone, and he only pulled the starting corners, not the whole starting defense.

[Yoshinator]

Studebaker did start. He played 39 snaps. Newsome played 46 snaps. Newsome is a regular rotation player, not a reserve who only came in late in the game. Same thing for Kerr.

 

I think the whole point was to give the young corners some time. It helps when one of your starters is out (like Davis last week, or Toler for most of last year). Everyone should have played better. I don't have a problem with the decision, but I doubt it happens again.

 

And I'm rewatching the 4th quarter right now. We only pulled the starting corners for one possession. The Giants scored their first 4th quarter TD against the starters, which made it 40-17 with about 9 minutes left. The next possession started with about 6 minutes left, and we put Gordy and Purifoy in, and gave up the TD. The next possession started with less than 3 minutes remaining, and Davis and Toler were right back in. 

 

I just want to make sure people understand that Pagano didn't shut the lights off and walk out of the building at the start of the 4th quarter. We had a three TD lead with six minutes left before he pulled anyone, and he only pulled the starting corners, not the whole starting defense.

Appreciate the info superman. Yeah, I don't mind that so much for just one possession, I overreacted a bit, looks like Davis, Toler and Butler are responsible for the 1st one. Also glad Newsome got more snaps than studabaker. I think he should actually start over Walden from now on tbh. He seems like a huge find. I understand what Pagano was doing though, one series isn't a big deal. Thought it was a lot than it really was.

[sreylas937]

a 1 point win, counts the same as a 30 point win in the records!

[JColts72]

Chuck has to use 2nd stringers in preseason only-One of these games it will come back to get the Colts as I don't like the O and D to go soft and very conservative. Bill B. who I can't stand from the Pats keeps the foot on the gas the whole game.

[B~Town]

Chuck has to use 2nd stringers in preseason only-One of these games it will come back to get the Colts as I don't like the O and D to go soft and very conservative. Bill B. who I can't stand from the Pats keeps the foot on the gas the whole game.

 

And that might have cost him SB's he's lost a lot of good players in junk time running up the score . 

[Lef]

Interesting stats

Up until the 2:57 mark of 3rd quarter after the the easy Dwayne Allen TD:

53 offensive plays: 44 pass/9 runs (83% pass plays)

Starting at 2:57 left in 3rd quarter until end of game:

17 offensive plays: 2 pass/15 runs (12% pass plays)

[HtownColt]

Interesting stats

Up until the 2:57 mark of 3rd quarter after the the easy Dwayne Allen TD:

53 offensive plays: 44 pass/9 runs (83% pass plays)

Starting at 2:57 left in 3rd quarter until end of game:

17 offensive plays: 2 pass/15 runs (12% pass plays)

That's what typically happens when a team is up 4 scores in 4th quarter

[HoosierColt89]

Interesting stats

Up until the 2:57 mark of 3rd quarter after the the easy Dwayne Allen TD:

53 offensive plays: 44 pass/9 runs (83% pass plays)

Starting at 2:57 left in 3rd quarter until end of game:

17 offensive plays: 2 pass/15 runs (12% pass plays)

Yes...and? That's typically what happens when up by 30 in the 4th.

[HoosierColt89]

You're going to catch a lot of flack in this thread. But people don't realize how close this was to a one scorw game. ODB beat Toler on a go route and Brown *barely* tipped it away at the last second. He would have taken it to the house.

Think about what you just posted. You're concerned that the game was "close" to being a one score game with 3 minutes left in the game. If that concerns you, do you have heart attacks during more common non-blowout games?

[Dustin]

Think about what you just posted. You're concerned that the game was "close" to being a one score game with 3 minutes left in the game. If that concerns you, do you have heart attacks during more common non-blowout games?

.

[backshoulderfade]

Why are people acting like Pagano is at fault here. You lead by 30 points near the end of your game you take your starters out. You don't want to expose them to unnecessary injury.

 

If the Giants started to threaten a comeback he could have...wait for it....put the starters back in. Which he did. The colts reacted exactly how he should have in this situation.

[rittdk01]

Bellchek and Brady would have finished the game full throttle; no let up. They would have buried their opponent, leaving nothing to chance. Different philosophy. I like the patriots philosophy in that situation.

Teams remember that stuff. Remember USC Stanford Carroll vs Harbaugh?  Carroll vs. Luck?  Also I dont really want Luck throwing and taking hits against a team that is already frustrated and embarrassed.  And FYI THERE WAS NO CHANCE.

[jmac_48]

I don't know about anybody else, but my gripe at the end of the game was the ultra conservative offensive play calling.

With just a little more opening up of he offense, a few more first downs made, much more time could have been burnt,

then this whole discussion would truly be moot.

 

Just My take...

We went "prevent" both offensively and defensively.

Not my favorite approach.

 

But hey, Colts Won!